Stipend

[Tooth]

While your buddy may be up to date right now, it doesn't mean he understands the bill that is about to be signed into law (h.r. 5122). He's just worried about what the current law is. He's probably just doing his job "same old, same old" just like when he started back in the day. The Navy recruiters here in Cleveland haven't even heard of this either and recruiters should be "in the know" as well. This is all too new for most of them. No one of them cares more than all of us HPSPers because it OUR potential money. ie. I don't think I'll rely on the comptroller. I'm more worried about the appropriations for the authorizations that are soon to occur.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[deuist]

$33M>$31M and they still need money for funding clerkships and school orders.

Maybe they could get the money from the Victory-in-Iraq celebrations that was never needed: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/04/washington/04victory.html

 

[j4pac]

don't ask where I got this...be/c I got it from a friend who got it from somewhere else. As some as I have the full document, I will post it. But until then, here are the highlights that I was sent.


" SEC. 538. HEALTH PROFESSIONS SCHOLARSHIP AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM FOR ACTIVE SERVICE.

(a) Maximum Stipend Amount- Section 2121(d) of title 10, United States Code, is amended--

(1) by striking `at the rate of $579 per month' and inserting `at a monthly rate established by the Secretary of Defense, but not to exceed a total of $30,000 per year'; and

(2) by striking `That rate' and inserting `The maximum annual amount of the stipend'.

(b) Maximum Annual Grant- Section 2127(e) of such title is amended--

(1) by striking `$15,000' and inserting `in an amount not to exceed $45,000'; and

(2) by striking `The amount' and inserting `The maximum amount'.

(c) Report on Program- Not later than March 1, 2007, the Secretary of Defense shall submit to the Congress a report on the Health Professions Scholarship and Financial Assistance Program for Active Service under subchapter I of chapter 105 of title 10, United States Code. The report shall include the following:

(1) An assessment of the success of each military department in achieving its recruiting goals under the program during each of fiscal years 2000 through 2006.

(2) If any military department failed to achieve its recruiting goals under the program during any fiscal year covered by paragraph (1), an explanation of the failure of the military department to achieve such goal during such fiscal year.

(3) An assessment of the adequacy of the stipend authorized by section 2121(d) of title 10, United States Code, in meeting the objectives of the program.

(4) Such recommendations for legislative or administrative action as the Secretary considers appropriate to enhance the effectiveness of the program in meeting the annual recruiting goals of the military departments for medical personnel covered by the program.

(d) Effective Date-

(1) IN GENERAL- The amendments made by this section shall take effect on October 1, 2006.

(2) PROHIBITION ON ADJUSTMENTS- The adjustments required by the second sentence of subsection (d) of section 2121 of title 10, United States Code, and the second sentence of subsection (e) of section 2127 of such title to be made in 2007 shall not be made. "

 

[NavyFP]

don't ask where I got this...be/c I got it from a friend who got it from somewhere else. As some as I have the full document, I will post it. But until then, here are the highlights that I was sent.


" SEC. 538. HEALTH PROFESSIONS SCHOLARSHIP AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM FOR ACTIVE SERVICE.

(a) Maximum Stipend Amount- Section 2121(d) of title 10, United States Code, is amended--

(1) by striking `at the rate of $579 per month' and inserting `at a monthly rate established by the Secretary of Defense, but not to exceed a total of $30,000 per year'; and

(2) by striking `That rate' and inserting `The maximum annual amount of the stipend'.

(b) Maximum Annual Grant- Section 2127(e) of such title is amended--

(1) by striking `$15,000' and inserting `in an amount not to exceed $45,000'; and

(2) by striking `The amount' and inserting `The maximum amount'.

(c) Report on Program- Not later than March 1, 2007, the Secretary of Defense shall submit to the Congress a report on the Health Professions Scholarship and Financial Assistance Program for Active Service under subchapter I of chapter 105 of title 10, United States Code. The report shall include the following:

(1) An assessment of the success of each military department in achieving its recruiting goals under the program during each of fiscal years 2000 through 2006.

(2) If any military department failed to achieve its recruiting goals under the program during any fiscal year covered by paragraph (1), an explanation of the failure of the military department to achieve such goal during such fiscal year.

(3) An assessment of the adequacy of the stipend authorized by section 2121(d) of title 10, United States Code, in meeting the objectives of the program.

(4) Such recommendations for legislative or administrative action as the Secretary considers appropriate to enhance the effectiveness of the program in meeting the annual recruiting goals of the military departments for medical personnel covered by the program.

(d) Effective Date-

(1) IN GENERAL- The amendments made by this section shall take effect on October 1, 2006.

(2) PROHIBITION ON ADJUSTMENTS- The adjustments required by the second sentence of subsection (d) of section 2121 of title 10, United States Code, and the second sentence of subsection (e) of section 2127 of such title to be made in 2007 shall not be made. "

This is the Authorization Act. No actual dollars are attached to this. You will note that it references Title 10. The Authorizations are "permanent" changes to actual law which give guidance for spending money. The appropriations acts set funding levels.

 

[dry dre]

This is the Authorization Act. No actual dollars are attached to this. You will note that it references Title 10. The Authorizations are "permanent" changes to actual law which give guidance for spending money. The appropriations acts set funding levels.

I don't mean to call you out, but you are very incorrect about some very fundamental points of American policymaking. Making matters worse, you are adamant about it.

This bill we are discussing is the a defense appropriations bill (act). It's not a "gee, lets have a CJ for several months and dream up how things would run if we only had the money" act.

Bush will sign this bill. HPSPers and FAP folks will get large raises...what is to be seen is if DOD (rather, each service) will wait until Jul 1, 2007 to raise the payments and bonuses. Whichever services raises last will reap the fewest recruits...hard to imagine all three holding out, especially as the money for said programs is already funded (unless you are waiting for the illusive "appropriations act to accompany the appropriations act Act."

 

[meadco]

Dry Dre, I hope you're right! Is there any way to find out when they will "do the raise?" It seems to me that they would want to do it ASAP, since it is a recruiting tool. Who knows, though.

 

[USAFdoc]

It seems to me that ........

Believe me, what ever SEEMS like the right thing to do has no bearing whatsoever on what senior admin leadership will end up doing.

 

[dry dre]

Dry Dre, I hope you're right! Is there any way to find out when they will "do the raise?" It seems to me that they would want to do it ASAP, since it is a recruiting tool. Who knows, though.

I outlined how the new law will read here:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=324187

Some strict reads on the would-be new law:
-It doesn't state that payments have to be increased before Jul 1, 2007.
-It states that they don't have to be increased at all.
-It leaves discretion to the SecDef (i.e. individual services) to determine how much to pay, up to the limits of $30k for stipends and $45k for bonuses.
-The funding for these increases are provided in the bill effective immediately.

What this means?
Suppose the AF offers a net annual 20k stipend and 40k bonus for FAP while the other services stick to today's rate....if you weren't set on joining one service or the other, why wouldn't you run to the AF?

The Navy probably has the worst deal to sell (from a strictly superficial recruiting standpoint): GMO tours and sea duty. Assuming the Navy is having the worst difficulty in recruiting, why would they not use all available means to steal recruits?

Again, I think the result is a race-to-the-top situation wherein the services will have to pay up to keep competative in the recruiting venue.

Note that this is the first time since 1983 that the congress has made a substantial gross adjustment on the financial packages offered to these medical programs.

Note also that the different services do not always offer the same bonuses in different areas. When I was in the Corps, there was no such thing as a "Marine Corps College Fund." At the time, the AF had a college fund, and I think the Navy did as well. Where did the other services find the money for these programs? Somewhere in discretionary spending I suppose, I don't know. Nonetheless, the otherwise present "all services are equal" notion was and continues to remain untrue when you look across the board at various programs.

I wouldn't be surprised if the services held the 45k for ortho/rads/surg folks while offering other FAPpers less. The annual pay difference between mil ortho and private ortho may be 250K whereas the FP differential may be less than 40-50K per annum. Of course, in the military you don't have to worry about malpractice and the like...

 

[Tooth]

Just for everyone to see. According to Thomas, the bill has been given to the President for his signature. The money's getting closer baby!

H.R.5122
Title: To authorize appropriations for fiscal year 2007 for military activities of the Department of Defense, for military construction, and for defense activities of the Department of Energy, to prescribe military personnel strengths for such fiscal year, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Hunter, Duncan [CA-52] (by request) (introduced 4/6/2006) Cosponsors (1)
Related Bills: H.RES.806, H.RES.811, H.RES.1062, S.2507, S.2766, S.2767
Latest Major Action: 10/5/2006 Presented to President. House Reports: 109-452; Latest Conference Report: 109-702 (in Congressional Record H8061-8540)
Note: House report text with all charts and tables.

 

[HumptyDumptyMil]

Tom Philpott, the original reporter that mentioned this stipend increase on militaryupdate.com, emailed me to say that the stipend increase has passed in the authorization bill and IT IS FUNDED. He did not state when the increase will take effect or how much the increase will be.

It seems like the increase is official now and we are only waiting to hear how much it will increase and when it will be increased.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Tom Philpott, the original reporter that mentioned this stipend increase on militaryupdate.com, emailed me to say that the stipend increase has passed in the authorization bill and IT IS FUNDED. He did not state when the increase will take effect or how much the increase will be.

It seems like the increase is official now and we are only waiting to hear how much it will increase and when it will be increased.

Great news. Did he happen to mention how he knows it has been funded, or what his source for saying that was? I'm sure he is right but I am just curious.

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

Okay, I've done a little more homework on this. So, how are people arriving at 1 July 07 as the date for increase in the stipend? The bill prohibits adjustments in FY 07, so to me, it sounds like we won't see an increase until Oct 07 or later (FY 07 ends on 30 Sep 07). Any thoughts?

 

[Tooth]

Okay, I've done a little more homework on this. So, how are people arriving at 1 July 07 as the date for increase in the stipend? The bill prohibits adjustments in FY 07, so to me, it sounds like we won't see an increase until Oct 07 or later (FY 07 ends on 30 Sep 07). Any thoughts?

The "prohibts adjustments" part just means that, in 2007, we won't get the usual 2.3% increase we usually get every July 1st.

 

[HumptyDumptyMil]

Great news. Did he happen to mention how he knows it has been funded, or what his source for saying that was? I'm sure he is right but I am just curious.

no clue. I will email him to see if he can share some of his secrets

 

[j4pac]

Tom Philpott, the original reporter that mentioned this stipend increase on militaryupdate.com, emailed me to say that the stipend increase has passed in the authorization bill and IT IS FUNDED. He did not state when the increase will take effect or how much the increase will be.

It seems like the increase is official now and we are only waiting to hear how much it will increase and when it will be increased.

are you sure that Mr. Philpott meant the BIG increase...or just the annual 2.3% increase. thanks.

 

[HumptyDumptyMil]

are you sure that Mr. Philpott meant the BIG increase...or just the annual 2.3% increase. thanks.

the big increase.

 

[aau22]

It seems the original wording of the bill was a little vague but now the prohibition on adjustments portion has been cleared up and the fact that it states the "second sentence" of subsection d simply prohibits a 2% increase as the stipend will be jumping so much for this year. The earlier versions of the bill made it seem as if Oct. 2007 was the earliest we'd see it. This is great news!! I am hoping for the best...but not counting on anything

 

[SquidDoc]

Either I just got severely overpaid, or this bill has passed, and the 1st October check demonstrated a huge pay raise.

 

[SquidDoc]

Either I just got severely overpaid, or this bill has passed, and the 1st October check demonstrated a huge pay raise.

My LES just came in...it shows 1/4th of this pay check as book reimbursements, and the othe 3/4ths as some sort of non-taxable "other credits". Could this be retro pay? This does not seem right, because new pay increases usually happen after the 1st of the fiscal year, not before it.

 

[aau22]

Nothing new for me...checked the acocunt. Won't even get a deposit til friday...isn't it unusual to have a deposit made before the 1/15 of the month??

 

[DD214_DOC]

Nothing new for me...checked the acocunt. Won't even get a deposit til friday...isn't it unusual to have a deposit made before the 1/15 of the month??

The only time I have gotten an early deposit is when the 1/15 fell on a weekend or holiday and even then it is that Friday or day before. That IS pretty odd.

I am hoping my reimbursement is on this next check.

 

[cyclegirl]

Well I just checked my checking account and there has not been a deposit. The only time I received a check early other than because the pay date landed on a weekend was when they sent me my pay for my leave days. I guess while on HPSP we can not collect leave days so when we are done with active duty they will send us a check for the amount of days of leave we earned. But, I do hope the pay increase happens.

 

[MedicalCorpse]

Either I just got severely overpaid, or this bill has passed, and the 1st October check demonstrated a huge pay raise.

A.

See my post in the other thread.

--
R

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

I know everyone is feverishly checking their bank accounts looking for that stipend increase, but I'll tell you from experience (past life in the USAF) it usually takes a couple of months between the authorization bill being signed and the $$$ getting where they are supposed to go. So, the earliest I would expect to see an increase is Dec-Jan time frame.

 

[NavyFP]

Everyone keeps talking about H.R. 5122. I want you to look at its title.

It is the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for 2007.

There is no funding to increase the stipend. They may find funding, but it will come out of someones hide.

 

[Tooth]

Everyone keeps talking about H.R. 5122. I want you to look at its title.

It is the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for 2007.

There is no funding to increase the stipend. They may find funding, but it will come out of someones hide.

The library of congress's THOMAS search states,

H.R.5122
Title: To authorize appropriations for fiscal year 2007 for military activities of the Department of Defense, for military construction, and for defense activities of the Department of Energy, to prescribe military personnel strengths for such fiscal year, and for other purposes.

This is not just an authorization, it is an appropriation too.

 

[aau22]

I emailed the author of the miltaryupdate.com site and he confirmed the bill was not just an authorization but had funding attached to it, though he expected it would take a few months for things to trickle down. it seems as though the new wording of the bill makes this increase look really solid...My guess is it will go retro to 1 Oct. whenever they get things settled out as the bill states the new changes effective on 1 Oct. but without the 2% hike in july.I didn't really believe this was going to happen but hearing from him combined with the wording that prevents the bump in July makes me believe the big raise is coming this year, and that is why there will be no increase in july.

 

[SquidDoc]

Sorry to repost, but here is the result of my overpayment from the other thread:
My check, on a non-pay day (oct 6th??) was $2009.83. It says "other credits" were $1547, and books/supplies reimbursements were $552.

Further down on the LES it notes, "BAH BACK PAYMENT FOR LES DTD 060501 TO 060614". I assume that this means that they back paid me for BAH that I have not received since 060501, which is 17 months...~$91 a month. This is strange. I am not sure if it is because I have 10 yrs of service on my LES or not, but that is what it reads.

Having 10 yrs of service, I plan on not spending a dime of this money...ever. I do know that if this is an DFAS error, they will gladly take the money back whenever they feel is convenient for them, and will not notify me first.

 

[NavyFP]

Sorry to repost, but here is the result of my overpayment from the other thread:
My check, on a non-pay day (oct 6th??) was $2009.83. It says "other credits" were $1547, and books/supplies reimbursements were $552.

Further down on the LES it notes, "BAH BACK PAYMENT FOR LES DTD 060501 TO 060614". I assume that this means that they back paid me for BAH that I have not received since 060501, which is 17 months...~$91 a month. This is strange. I am not sure if it is because I have 10 yrs of service on my LES or not, but that is what it reads.

Having 10 yrs of service, I plan on not spending a dime of this money...ever. I do know that if this is an DFAS error, they will gladly take the money back whenever they feel is convenient for them, and will not notify me first.

The BAH is yours. There was a change in law last year that gave BAH I to all reservists activated for more than 30 days. This is the BAH based on zip code rather than the flat rate of BAH II. If you did an AT in 2006 (and it looks like you did for May and first half of June), they will give you the difference between the two.

 

[NavyFP]

The library of congress's THOMAS search states,

H.R.5122
Title: To authorize appropriations for fiscal year 2007 for military activities of the Department of Defense, for military construction, and for defense activities of the Department of Energy, to prescribe military personnel strengths for such fiscal year, and for other purposes.

This is not just an authorization, it is an appropriation too.

I give up. You just won't get it. There is absolutely no actual cash associated with this bill (H.R. 5122). It sets spending limits. Call your individual program and ask. They will all tell you there is no current funding to increase the stipend. This does not mean they are not looking for money, but it was not a line item in the H.R 5631 which is the FY07 Department of Defense Appropriations Act.

 

[cyclegirl]

Well I just checked my checking account and instead of my $640 paycheck it is for $1750. What is that all about? I just submitted my reimbursement paperwork last week so I can not be getting reimbursed so soon. Not that I am complaining, I AM VERY HAPPY , but I would like to know what that money is for.

 

[USAFdoc]

Well I just checked my checking account and instead of my $640 paycheck it is for $1750. What is that all about? I just submitted my reimbursement paperwork last week so I can not be getting reimbursed so soon. Not that I am complaining, I AM VERY HAPPY , but I would like to know what that money is for.

it's "hush" money (for later in your career).

just kidding, it is probably a PR move to help with HPSP recruiting. So enjoy!

 

[Slurfmaster]

I also got a 1750$ paycheck from DFAS this morning. It seems like too much money since if the stipend went up to 3000 a month it should only be around 1200 after taxes. Well hopefully this is our raise

 

[aau22]

Maybe it is the BAH money as discussed above if you guys already did an ADT this summer or did your OBC...what branch are you guys???

 

[cyclegirl]

I did go to OIS this summer but we were told there that we would not be getting BAH because the Navy was paying for us to stay in the barracks.

 

[aau22]

Sounds like it is the BAH that NavyFP was talking about above though I'm curious why they'd pay you for it and then provide housing.

 

[cyclegirl]

Well I just got confirmation from NMETC, navy training command, that the extra money in our accounts is indead back pay for BAH. This is because HPSP members are now allowed to receive full BAH while on active duty. The person I spoke to still has heard nothing about the stipend increase.

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

Well I just got confirmation from NMETC, navy training command, that the extra money in our accounts is indead back pay for BAH. This is because HPSP members are now allowed to receive full BAH while on active duty. The person I spoke to still has heard nothing about the stipend increase.

That's funny. I didn't receive an extra dime. But,then again I'm single, so maybe that has something to do with it.

BTW, how do you actually get someone on the phone at NMETC? I've had good luck with e-mail, but can NEVER get anyone on the phone.

 

[cyclegirl]

I do not think it has to do with your marital status because I am single. I get someone on the phone just about every time I call. I just call the personal phone numbers that are attached to the e-mail signatures in the e-mails they send to me. Check your account tomorrow, the actual pay date, you might have something.

 

[|2idicu|ous]

no change in stipend pay yet- just the normal amount. the bill hasn't been signed by the president yet. but it will become law without his signature in 2 more days anyway since congress is in session (unless of course he straight up vetoes it... which won't happen).
plus who knows how long it will take for the money to actually make it into our bank accounts- it could be months.

SO QUIT FREAKING OUT!!!

 

[Poseidon]

no change in stipend pay yet- just the normal amount. the bill hasn't been signed by the president yet. but it will become law without his signature in 2 more days anyway since congress is in session (unless of course he straight up vetoes it... which won't happen).
plus who knows how long it will take for the money to actually make it into our bank accounts- it could be months.

SO QUIT FREAKING OUT!!!

Actually, I believe that Congress has adjourned so it may not become law for awhile yet. Plus there is the whole funding issue..... We wont see this money for quite some time!

 

[|2idicu|ous]

Well, its the 17th but there have been no changes to HR 5122 on the Library of Congress website- no Presidential signature. If Congress is in session, then it should have become law on the 15th. If Congress wasn't in session on the 15th, then it would have been a pocket veto (which doesn't make any sense).

Does anyone know what is going on?

 

[DD214_DOC]

Well, its the 17th but there have been no changes to HR 5122 on the Library of Congress website- no Presidential signature. If Congress is in session, then it should have become law on the 15th. If Congress wasn't in session on the 15th, then it would have been a pocket veto (which doesn't make any sense).

Does anyone know what is going on?

I'm pretty sure congress adjourned on the 9th. The bill was presented to the President on the 5th, so he has until the end of today to sign it or it becomes vetoed. I knew Bush wasn't that smart but come on...

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

I do not think it has to do with your marital status because I am single. I get someone on the phone just about every time I call. I just call the personal phone numbers that are attached to the e-mail signatures in the e-mails they send to me. Check your account tomorrow, the actual pay date, you might have something.

Yep, just got my LES with an additional ~$860 backpay for the BAH. Woo Hoo!

 

[Tooth]

I'm pretty sure congress adjourned on the 9th. The bill was presented to the President on the 5th, so he has until the end of today to sign it or it becomes vetoed. I knew Bush wasn't that smart but come on...

I'm confused, why does the President only have until today to sign the bill?

 

[DD214_DOC]

I'm confused, why does the President only have until today to sign the bill?

The bill was presented to him on 10/5. When a bill is presented to the president, he has X number of days to sign it. If congress is in session, the bill automatically becomes law without his signature. If congress is not in session, and I believe it is not, the bill becomes automatically vetoed after 10 days if the President does not sign it. As someone else mentioned, this is known as a, "pocket veto" and is a lame political thing.

The X number of days does not include Sundays, so 10 days excluding Sunday from 10/5 is today.

 

[Tooth]

Good News Guys. The President signed the bill! It's on the whitehouse.gov website. Here's a part...

October 17, 2006

President's Statement on H.R. 5122, the "John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007"




Today, I have signed into law H.R. 5122, the "John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007" (the "Act"). The Act authorizes funding for the defense of the United States and its interests abroad, for military construction, for national security-related energy programs, and for maritime security-related transportation programs.

Check it out on

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/10/20061017-9.html


Thank goodness!

 

[DD214_DOC]

I guess they had to wait until today to organize that nice photo op. By the way, since when is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs a Marine?

 

[Banlioch]

General Pace has been the Chairman for over a year.

 

[j4pac]

now...it is wait and see time. I have a hard time believing that there WILL NOT be a stipend increase. You have to remember, this has nothing to do with a pay day to the current HPSPs...even though it would be deserving since we are underpaid. It is all about recruitment. The Navy and Army will continue to have significant trouble recruiting if their is not more cheese offered. I think that on the most part, the men and women who are currently in HPSP in the Army or Navy do it because they would do it even if their wasn't a scholarship. I was going to be a Navy doctor whether or not they threw money at me or not. So there really is VERY little actual recruitment going on. Recruitment is about CONVINCING people to do something that they otherwise wouldn't do or hadn't thought about doing.

Let's see...we are in a never-ending war with the middle east...and who knows what on the horizon with North Korea. and oh yeah...you won't be making as much money (do to loans) as your fellow students and will be scraping by every month. THAT ISN'T RECRUITMENT!!! I am sorry...but I would NOT be doing what I am doing if it wasn't for the fact that I love my country and hope to serve the men, women, and dependents of the US Navy. Currently...the money for schooling and books IS NOT WORTH IT! I tell all of my friends that. I tell them all...don't go HPSP unless you are doing it for reasons other than financial. Sure...the financial support is nice...but if you are only doing it for the money...you are likely making a big mistake....because it isn't ENOUGH money.

But if they increase our stipends to the point where we will no longer be strapped for cash...they I would be more than willing to tell my friends that HPSP isn't a bad route to go if you are only doing it for financial purposes...because the US government takes care of you. But at this point...I don't feel like they do. I'm sorry...but finances should be the very LAST thing on the mind of a student taking anatomy his or her first semester.