Social Justice in Medicine

[Chelsea FC]

I love these post
OP: I dont see the need to learn about this stuff
Rest of SDN: yeah its a waste of time, and by the way lets talk about how "blacks" are genetically inferior.
Yall just show yourself up.

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[Damson]

I love these post
OP: I dont see the need to learn about this stuff
Rest of SDN: yeah its a waste of time, and by the way lets talk about how "blacks" are genetically inferior.
Yall just show yourself up.

I didn’t read the entire thread but did anyone post hard evidence of that statement?

 

[TwoHighways]

MD vs DO or Nurse posts gets nuke for going off topic so quickly on here but we have a constant discussion about if "blacks are genetically inferior to whites" with an admin and this is able to carry on? Maybe im just personally disturbed by all the hateful comments on here but the double standards on what is considered on "ontpic" is laughable. This should be in the sociopolitical forum.
PS: POC who read this, this is exactly how your colleagues are thinking about you.

Umm, could you please point out where anyone has said "blacks are genetically inferior to whites". I mean, you put it in quotes... Would you like to say something other than expressing outrage about what actions moderators decide to take pertaining to certain discussions? Like, specifically what you've take issue with so far in this discussion.

 

[canquito]

Y

I don't find SJW "compassion" all that compassionate, given the divisiveness of the belief structure and hellish place we'd end up if we prioritized equality of outcome across any way you can divide people into groups. On the contrary, I think it's much more compassionate to treat people as individuals and not assigning them traits based on a group identity.

I take it you admit you're not a paragon of compassion seeing how you speak of SJWs as a collective, and don't think that your recycling of Ben Shapiro's talking point goes unnoticed.

"Equality of outcome" - nobody worth listening to promotes this. A blatant problem this country faces is that equal opportunity is a fantasy. And individuals who tar and feather others, regardless of what moral or political crusade they embark on, are just empty noise drowning out fruitful discussion.

 

[dr_kateb]

If you see all of these comments and the first thing that comes to your mind is to make a comment about a soccer game your priorities are messed up.

Technically it wasn't the comments. It was your username.

(Congrats, you share something in common with Ayn Rand btw)

Haha. Kind of ironic you associate the woman that came up of the idea of moral objectivism with anybody but the left. Good job buddy.

 

[TwoHighways]

Y

I take it you admit you're not a paragon of compassion seeing how you speak of SJWs as a collective, and don't think that your recycling of Ben Shapiro's talking point goes unnoticed.

"Equality of outcome" - nobody worth listening to promotes this. A blatant problem this country faces is that equal opportunity is a fantasy. And individuals who tar and feather others, regardless of what moral or political crusade they embark on, are just empty noise drowning out fruitful discussion.

Who is Ben Shapiro?

 

[Chelsea FC]

@Matthew9Thirtyfive do your job.

 

[hrqtalwq]

MD vs DO or Nurse posts gets nuke for going off topic so quickly on here but we have a constant discussion about if "blacks are genetically inferior to whites" with an admin and this is able to carry on? Maybe im just personally disturbed by all the hateful comments on here but the double standards on what is considered on "ontpic" is laughable. This should be in the sociopolitical forum.
PS: POC who read this, this is exactly how your colleagues are thinking about you.

Ikr? anything about Caribbean schools too.

 

[Lawpy]

I thought we're talking about the importance of teaching social issues in med school and dangers of cancel culture. But i haven't read this thread closely.

 

[canquito]

Haha. Kind of ironic you associate the woman that came up of the idea of moral objectivism with anybody but the left. Good job buddy.

I associate that woman with people who believe individuals have the right to live selfish lives, unconcerned for how others are harmed by their own or external forces that benefit them. People on the left and right can fit the bill.

 

[rulerkk]

MD vs DO or Nurse posts gets nuke for going off topic so quickly on here but we have a constant discussion about if "blacks are genetically inferior to whites" with an admin and this is able to carry on? Maybe im just personally disturbed by all the hateful comments on here but the double standards on what is considered on "ontpic" is laughable. This should be in the sociopolitical forum.
PS: POC who read this, this is exactly how your colleagues are thinking about you.

As a POC med student, I'm not surprised at all that med students have these thoughts/belief and carry arguments based on them. Since I am dead to the toxicity and very glad crusty, stereotypically out-of-touch, downright abusive medical school admin is finally trying to learn about how our POC experiences impact us as future physicians.. I'm thankful.

And ya know, there will be more POC in healthcare just as the country has more POC decade by decade and these conversations happen on a national platform more often. I think minds will be more empathetic over time to social issues.

 

[TwoHighways]

@Matthew9Thirtyfive do your job.

I believe he is by letting a somewhat loaded topic that has mostly been civil take place. It's one that needs to be happening all across this country. It's through voicing our beliefs and opinions that we gain an understanding of one another, something that the left as of late has been attacking mercilessly as of late. I don't at all discount that historically, this country hasn't treated people of color fairly. That's a gross understatement actually. I just don't buy into the argument that it's unconscious bias and/or systemic racism that's the cause of the social problems or disparities we see in health based on racial divisions today. If you'd like to argue otherwise, I'd love to hear your views.

 

[Neopolymath]

I thought we're talking about the importance of teaching social issues in med school and dangers of cancel culture. But i haven't read this thread closely.

Keep up. We have moved on to the part of the thread where everyone who isn't a SJW is compassionless and terrible and everyone who has posted in this thread is racist. The heros have arrived to the thread.

 

[deleted480308]

MD vs DO or Nurse posts gets nuke for going off topic so quickly on here but we have a constant discussion about if "blacks are genetically inferior to whites" with an admin and this is able to carry on? Maybe im just personally disturbed by all the hateful comments on here but the double standards on what is considered on "ontpic" is laughable. This should be in the sociopolitical forum.
PS: POC who read this, this is exactly how your colleagues are thinking about you.

That’s just how one poster online feels, not “your colleagues” to any appreciable amount

 

[Neopolymath]

That’s just how one poster online feels, not “your colleagues” to any appreciable amount

If you are tangentially related to this thread you are a racist for sure. This is why these threads are bad.

 

[canquito]

I believe he is by letting a somewhat loaded topic that has mostly civil take place. It's one that needs to be happening all across this country. It's through voicing our beliefs and opinions that we gain an understanding of one another, something that the left as of late has been attacking mercilously. I don't at all discount that historically, this country hasn't treated people of color fairly. That's a gross understatement actually. I just don't buy into the argument that it's unconscious bias and/or systemic racism that's the cause of the social problems or disparities we see in health based on racial divisions today. If you'd like to argue otherwise, I'd love to hear your views.

As much as I may disagree with some of your points, I am glad that you are more than willing to genuinely discuss.

I recommend you read David Hilfiker's Urban Injustice. He's a doc who got burnt out from medicine and did indigent care with the idea that black and poor communities just needed guidance to overcome their problems. The book above almost oversimplifies why that is not the case.

Stuff like unconscious bias/microaggressions/etc. bothers me because these imply some degree of intention when this may not be the case. I remember asking a kid sitting at a table whom he was accompanying at a dining section for the elderly folks or people with disabilities. He turned and showed me his amputated legs. I apologized, gave him an extra dessert of his chosing and moved on. I don't think any amount of school lectures can cure people of being a-holes.

 

[rulerkk]

I'm also going to chime in here my take on social issues: the argument that black people are "genetically inferior" in intelligence is weak. Nigerians in particular, along with plenty of other African-immigrants, do extremely well academically.

And most African-Americans who make up Ivy-League institutions like the ones I went to.. come from wealth and strong familial support.

Which points towards more evidence of the typical African-American experience with racism, the education system, police discrimination, and blatant discrimination being major detrimental points against black children growing up and pursuing more education. Let alone the generations of imposed financial obstacles. Re: Tulsa race massacre - Wikipedia as a distinct example. Aside from de facto segregation practices in real estate as recent as my parents moving into our white community.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Some are saying that even if it is true that on average, African Americans perform worse on IQ tests even when quality/level of education is corrected for, it is too sensitive a statement to allow on these forums

I guess if I was running the forum, I also wouldn’t want this to be discussed

At the end of the day if people wanna talk about it I could care less. But there is a place for that. Its the double standard on this forum I cant get and its even more shocking when its an admin participating in it. We see how they are heavy-handed when it comes to Caribbean school, MD vs DO and nurse conversations but when it comes to questioning the intelligence of Blacks its somehow viewed as relevant discussion to medical school. Its the hypocrisy I can't stand

 

[PsychApp777]

Some are saying that even if it is true that on average, African Americans perform worse on IQ tests even when quality/level of education is corrected for, it is too sensitive a statement to allow on these forums

I guess if I was running the forum, I also wouldn’t want this to be discussed

Unfortunately, what you would prefer to be true does not become so by censoring dissenting opinions. I’m not speaking in favor of either side re: the above IQ debate, but censoring civil discourse assessing the validity of inconvenient truths is a slippery slope to an authoritarian society.

 

[rulerkk]

Believing these social issues are totally separate from these outcomes among millions of Americans over the course of centuries is.. shortsighted. Believing they are not worthy of students' concern and their advocacy as future high-earners that directly affect both politics and healthcare outcomes for hundreds of millions of less fortunate citizens and patients is ridiculous, imo

 

[Chelsea FC]

Unfortunately, what you would prefer to be true does not become so by you censoring dissenting opinions. I’m not speaking in favor of either side re: the above IQ debate, but censoring civil discourse assessing the validity of inconvenient truths is a slippery slope to an authoritarian society.

This is a private website that already censors us in alot of ways. So I dont know what youre getting at about authoritarian society. It just makes you think when you question what they choose to censor and what they dont.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

@Matthew9Thirtyfive do your job.

This conversation has been extremely civil. If that changes, I'll stop it.

And just for the record, there are a few users on this thread who think that way. That hardly represents "your colleagues." And just FYI, "the admin" is disagreeing that you can say anything close to "blacks are genetically inferior to whites" and has argued entirely against that concept in this thread.

I'm also in medical school and a father. I can't see every post. If I miss one on here that crosses the line, please report it so I'll definitely see it and can act on it if it warrants it. As I said before, racism will not be tolerated here. I don't think anyone has made the actual argument that blacks are genetically inferior like you're implying, but if someone has and I missed it, please let me know.

 

[TwoHighways]

As much as I may disagree with some of your points, I am glad that you are more than willing to genuinely discuss.

I recommend you read David Hilfiker's Urban Injustice. He's a doc who got burnt out from medicine and did indigent care with the idea that black and poor communities just needed guidance to overcome their problems. The book above almost oversimplifies why that is not the case.

Stuff like unconscious bias/microaggressions/etc. bothers me because these imply some degree of intention when this may not be the case. I remember asking a kid sitting at a table whom he was accompanying at a dining section for the elderly folks or people with disabilities. He turned and showed me his amputated legs. I apologized, gave him an extra desert of his chosing and moved on. I don't think any amount of school lectures can cure people of being a-holes.

Let's have a honest discussion about poverty then. That would be productive. I'm not unaware of things like redlining. Jim Crow laws. The war on drugs. ****ty public schools. The modern welfare state that has essentially incentivized having kids out of wedlock. What I find absolutely repugnant is the sensationalization of every black citizen that has a ****ty encounter with the police, as if it's only perpetrated against blacks. The rioting. The unrest. The hatred. The forces of division. It's tearing this country apart.

 

[Damson]

Unfortunately, what you would prefer to be true does not become so by censoring dissenting opinions. I’m not speaking in favor of either side re: the above IQ debate, but censoring civil discourse assessing the validity of inconvenient truths is a slippery slope to an authoritarian society.

Thanks for the input. I change my stance, if something is true, discussing it should continue despite possible averse reactions.

 

[Chelsea FC]

This conversation has been extremely civil. If that changes, I'll stop it.

And just for the record, there are a few users on this thread who think that way. That hardly represents "your colleagues." And just FYI, "the admin" is disagreeing that you can say anything close to "blacks are genetically inferior to whites" and has argued entirely against that concept in this thread.

So civility is what gets a thread moved?? Not just going completely off-topic? Wonder where the goalpost will be moved to tomorrow

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I didn’t read the entire thread but did anyone post hard evidence of that statement?

I only saw one user make an argument that seemed to be going that way, but when I asked him to clarify, he said that the phrase "prone to violence" doesn't mean genetically, but could be because of societal issues, systemic things, etc.

 

[canquito]

Let's have a honest discussion about poverty then

Let's.

****ty public schools.

My dad's a public school teacher of two decades. I'd love to hear your thoughts on why this is the case.

The modern welfare state that has essentially incentivized having kids out of wedlock.

Why the concern for out of wedlock? Last time I checked, my public education made no mention of sex-ed. My state also was recently involved with the Supreme Court for wanting to strike down abortion restrictions.
Even if we were to point at more/higher education as a solution, higher education in this country is ballooning in price, so additional student loan debt would add gasoline to a social conflagration.
I believe this nation should not let puritanical voices call the shots regarding sexual/reproductive health awareness and promotion. This may not solve problems immediately but it will open doors to promote a healthier culture surrounding sex across American society.

the sensationalization of every black citizen that has a ****ty encounter with the police

I kinda agree. But are you aware of the history of law enforcement in this country?

as if it's only perpetrated against blacks

Oh, yeah, you are aware of the history.

The rioting. The unrest. The hatred. The forces of division. It's tearing this country apart.

Nice James Dean impression. I agree too. Things are super polarized.

 

[dr_kateb]

Believing they are not worthy of students' concern and their advocacy as future high-earners that directly affect both politics and healthcare outcomes for hundreds of millions of less fortunate citizens and patients is ridiculous, imo

... Which comes back to the original question of why this is on the shoulders of medical students and physicians? And if a medical student/physician does not want to participate is he morally wrong?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Actually, @Chelsea FC I'm glad you posted because I just went back and looked and did see a post where someone straight up said that. It was the only one I saw, but it has been moderated and the user warned.

Again, racist posts will not be tolerated. If you post something that X race is inferior to Y race, X people are less intelligent than Y people, or whatever, it will result in moderator action. Discussing why X people might have on average lower scores on IQ tests or whatever is fine, because that is actual data and there are reasons for it, and believe it or not they can be applicable to the topic of the thread.

 

[Mass Effect]

The subject matter you were talking about with @sb247 is about a behavior you are for taxing because it burdens our healthcare budget.

@Kumorebi brought up Doritos because the logic of your position may be applied to other similarly self-destructive behaviors that burden our public insurance. You seem to have shifted your argument just now - nicotine directly alters the mind, but Doritos on the other hand indirectly alters the mind by releasing dopamine, which activates the pleasure pathway. Due to the nature of the former, you find it taxable? Both burden our socialized insurance budget though.

Extra-taxing junk is overreach

Now I admit I'm not an addiction psychiatrist, though I do treat addiction as part of my practice, but comparing nicotine to a bag of Doritos is one I've never heard before. As far as I know, a bag of Doritos doesn't impair your daily function nor does not having a bag of Doritos leave you in chemical withdrawal or with symptoms of irritability/anger, anxiety, insomnia, and depression. And as far as I know (admittedly I haven't read it in a while), there is no DSM diagnosis for Dorito Use Disorder. But ok, we can talk about taxing Doritos. As I said, I don't have a problem with it.

 

[deleted859689]

So civility is what gets a thread moved?? Not just going completely off-topic? Wonder where the goalpost will be moved to tomorrow

In my opinion, most of the topics discussed here can fall under some category of social justice in medicine, whether it be government intervention of disease causing factors to microagression classes in a curriculum. Heck you trying to end this conversation on a medical forum falls under that category as well. I don't agree with everything people say on this thread, but it opens my mind to how others in the field of medicine think about social justice... well... in medicine. I don't believe this discussion really matters in the grand scheme of things because what we say here isn't magically going to enact some policy change to solve all our problems, however, understanding others' perspectives on things can help shape our own views on the world, whether positive or negative. And isn't that the point of SDN in a nutshell? Opinionated views to help one's perspective?

Let's.

My dad's a public school teacher of two decades. I'd love to hear your thoughts on why this is the case.

Why the concern for out of wedlock? Last time I checked, my public education made no mention of sex-ed. My state also was recently involved with the Supreme Court for wanting to strike down abortion restrictions.
Even if we were to point at more/higher education as a solution, higher education in this country is ballooning in price, so additional student loan debt would add gasoline to a social conflagration.
I believe this nation should not let puritanical voices call the shots regarding sexual/reproductive health awareness and promotion. This may not solve problems immediately but it will open doors to promote a healthier culture surrounding sex across American society.

I kinda agree. But are you aware of the history of law enforcement in this country?

Oh, yeah, you are aware of the history.

Nice James Dean impression. I agree too. Things are super polarized.

The public school system, at least in my state, promotes kids to the next grade whether or not they actually satisfy the curricula for that year. e,g. teaching science in underserved communities has shown me that kids in 4th-5th grade that can't read shouldn't be in the 4th and 5th grade. Yet they are there because the public school education system wants to spit them out as fast as they can so they don't have to pay the exorbitant costs of having them repeat years again and again. This isn't the fault of the education system per say, socioeconomic factors at home also pay apart which is why a part of me also believes individuals shouldn't have kids they can't support. However, the public education system isn't helping to mitigate the situation at all. It's a viscous cycle - kids born into low SES home - doesn't learn anything (like sex-ed which you alluded to) getting spat out and having kids of their own that they can't support.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The subject matter you were talking about with @sb247 is about a behavior you are for taxing because it burdens our healthcare budget.

@Kumorebi brought up Doritos because the logic of your position may be applied to other similarly self-destructive behaviors that burden our public insurance. You seem to have shifted your argument just now - nicotine directly alters the mind, but Doritos on the other hand indirectly alters the mind by releasing dopamine, which activates the pleasure pathway. Due to the nature of the former, you find it taxable? Both burden our socialized insurance budget though.

Extra-taxing junk is overreach

Someone eating doritos next to my kid isn't going to harm them. The second hand smoke can.

 

[canquito]

... Which comes back to the original question of why this is on the shoulders of medical students and physicians? And if a medical student/physician does not want to participate is he morally wrong?

I think it just reflects on what you believe the role of a physician should be. Even if you don't champion a social cause or practice a specialty, there is value in learning about more than what just 'exists in your lane'.

 

[rulerkk]

The dangerous separation of the American upper middle class

I'd send you here to get some background knowledge on how physicians will pay a large part in these socioeconomic and political issues. Admin know that about that influence and are morally incentivized (at least how they see physicians' role in healthcare and society)

... Which comes back to the original question of why this is on the shoulders of medical students and physicians? And if a medical student/physician does not want to participate is he morally wrong?

 

[deleted859689]

Someone eating doritos next to my kid isn't going to harm them. The second hand smoke can.

All it takes is for your kid to ask for one. "Once you pop, the fun don't stop" - Pringles

 

[FalconSlice]

Was late to the party and finally have read the entire thread to this point. What a roller coaster ride...

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I think it just reflects on what you believe the role of a physician should be. Even if you don't champion a social cause or practice a specialty, there is value in learning about more than what just 'exists in your lane'.

Agreed. My school has a panel every module on some topic that is sometimes loosely related and sometimes not. We had one on racism in healthcare that unfortunately was not very good. I was hoping for a discussion about actual reasons for it, solutions, experiences of real people, etc. Instead we just got told by multiple people that every white person in the room was racist whether they knew it or not.

Every other panel has been great except that one. The small group discussion we had on it after was great though. Definitely opened me up to different ways of thinking.

 

[TwoHighways]

Let's.

My dad's a public school teacher of two decades. I'd love to hear your thoughts on why this is the case.

Why the concern for out of wedlock? Last time I checked, my public education made no mention of sex-ed. My state also was recently involved with the Supreme Court for wanting to strike down abortion restrictions.
Even if we were to point at more/higher education as a solution, higher education in this country is ballooning in price, so additional student loan debt would add gasoline to a social conflagration.
I believe this nation should not let puritanical voices call the shots regarding sexual/reproductive health awareness and promotion. This may not solve problems immediately but it will open doors to promote a healthier culture surrounding sex across American society.

I kinda agree. But are you aware of the history of law enforcement in this country?

Oh, yeah, you are aware of the history.

Nice James Dean impression. I agree too. Things are super polarized.

I think local corruption and teacher's unions are a big part of the problem in poor performing districts. A lack of emphasis on the value of education is likely another factor. We've spent billions since the 1960's without really moving the needle much. Maybe it's time to consider school choice/vouchers? The out of wedlock comment was made because women typically receive more in welfare benefits if they are unmarried. I also think the war on drugs is a problem in that it incarcerates a lot of black men that presumably would be more involved in the lives of their kids if they weren't serving time on a petty marijuana charge that a suburban white kid wouldn't be serving the same sentence. A two parent home has pretty strong correlations with rising out of poverty.

 

[dr_kateb]

The dangerous separation of the American upper middle class

I'd send you here to get some background knowledge on how physicians will pay a large part in these socioeconomic and political issues. Admin know that about that influence and are morally incentivized (at least how they see physicians' role in healthcare and society)

Really not seeing where doctors come into this.

 

[rulerkk]

The Top 1 Percent: What Jobs Do They Have?

Physicians make up one of the largest chunks of the 1%. Which is to say, their influence in politics and our eventual national, state, local policies is disproportionately large

 

[canquito]

A lack of emphasis on the value of education is likely another factor.

No Child Left Behind. See this post:

The public school system, at least in my state, promotes kids to the next grade whether or not they actually satisfy the curricula for that year. e,g. teaching science in underserved communities has shown me that kids in 4th-5th grade that can't read shouldn't be in the 4th and 5th grade. Yet they are there because the public school education system wants to spit them out as fast as they can so they don't have to pay the exorbitant costs of having them repeat years again and again. This isn't the fault of the education system per say, socioeconomic factors at home also pay apart which is why a part of me also believes individuals shouldn't have kids they can't support. However, the public education system isn't helping to mitigate the situation at all. It's a viscous cycle - kids born into low SES home - doesn't learn anything (like sex-ed which you alluded to) getting spat out and having kids of their own that they can't support.

It's only going to get worse. You'd be surprised how many kids don't have access to virtual lectures due to low SES seen in ways such as poor ISP service, lacking tech to attend online classes or just lacking individuals that give a crap about their education.

I think local corruption and teacher's unions are a big part of the problem in poor performing districts. Maybe it's time to consider school choice/vouchers?

My dad's district has faced scandals but mostly with standardized examinations because performance = $$$. That being said, in the district that I attended and he teaches in, administrative bloat is real. More than half the annual budget goes to them, and they micromanage to the point of absurdity. This detaches teachers from planning lessons in favor of hitting milestones/ever-changing district curricula and teaching students how to take tests rather than purported subjects.
Charter schools = $$$ for the people that open and run these but they don't solve underlying problems since they abide by state standards.

The out of wedlock comment was made because women typically receive more in welfare benefits if they are unmarried.

I have yet to meet people whose financial plans in life are to have children to collect benefits. I'm not saying they don't exist but are likely the exception rather than the norm. I have, however, met countless hardworking women whose career goals were derailed or postponed due to having children earlier than they would have liked. As a kid I remember an outreach program where well-dressed college students visited us for a couple weeks to us about entrepreneurship and financial responsibility, and half of the class wanted to be an entrepreneur for the rest of the year. Maybe they could have thrown in the fact, "btw having children is an exorbitant financial responsibility, and if you have children too early that will almost certainly preclude you from becoming an entrepreneur and many other things in life"

Ditto on the drug stuff.

 

[dr_kateb]

The Top 1 Percent: What Jobs Do They Have?

Physicians make up one of the largest chunks of the 1%. Which is to say, their influence in politics and our eventual national, state, local policies is disproportionately large

I see nothing wrong with a doctor that just want to practice medicine and live his/her life. I also see nothing wrong with a doctor advocating and lobbying for issues on his/her accord. However saying that they not only are the obligated to advocate, but also in a way that is very partisan (by institutions that give them their education and their paychecks) from what you are suggesting is indoctrination and should not exist.

 

[readmypostsMD]

Actually, @Chelsea FC I'm glad you posted because I just went back and looked and did see a post where someone straight up said that. It was the only one I saw, but it has been moderated and the user warned.

Again, racist posts will not be tolerated. If you post something that X race is inferior to Y race, X people are less intelligent than Y people, or whatever, it will result in moderator action. Discussing why X people might have on average lower scores on IQ tests or whatever is fine, because that is actual data and there are reasons for it, and believe it or not they can be applicable to the topic of the thread.

I presume I got this status thing because of my comment, which has been deleted...

You know for a fact that I never said X are “inferior” to Y. I pointed to IQ specifically... everyone knows that IQ doesn’t make someone “inferior” or “superior”

 

[readmypostsMD]

I think it just reflects on what you believe the role of a physician should be. Even if you don't champion a social cause or practice a specialty, there is value in learning about more than what just 'exists in your lane'.

So what is the value

 

[rulerkk]

I see nothing wrong with a doctor that just want to practice medicine and live his/her life. I also see nothing wrong with a doctor advocating and lobbying for issues on his/her accord. However saying that they not only are the obligated to advocate, but also in a way that is very partisan (by institutions that give them their education and their paychecks) from what you are suggesting is indoctrination and should not exist.

Listen. When I spent time with my fellow classmates drafting up our version of the Hippocratic Oath, we made a whole clause for our responsibility to society:

"To society, I pledge that:
I will champion accessible, equitable, and sustainable care for all;
I will build a safe environment by holding myself and others accountable for our biases;
I will confront historical traumas and systemic injustices that continue to impact people’s lives, especially those perpetuated by the institution of medicine;
I will fulfill my responsibility to advocate for progress."

Admin encouraged and approved this message because our institution is actively trying to better health care outcomes for our patients regardless of their predispositions and pre-existing conditions. For us, that means taking into account the impact social issues have on their health care and our own provision of that care. I am saying that the punch-in, punch-out method of being a physician for decades has certainly contributed to the chaotic state of healthcare in America today. So if these issues matter to you, and they at the very least will when frustrated voters elect leaders who may change how you practice / make your living from healthcare, being an advocate is in your interests as much as your patients'. At least then you can shape the dialogue and eventual policies.

 

[M&L]

just read the entire thread - very intense.

But i am very impressed that everything (mostly) has been discussed in a relatively civil way, as much as i dont disagree with some views expressed here, i believe it is important to respect another person's right to express their views in a polite professional way. Its like, - how can i expect people to listen and respect my views, if i do not respect theirs?

I am a very liberal person, and some people would maybe call my views very "progressive", but i actually listen to Ben Shapiro's interviews and his sister's podcast, because i have always been fascinated by their culture, traditions, and beliefs.

Anyway, i am excited to see whats next. hahahah.

 

[TwoHighways]

Listen. When I spent time with my fellow classmates drafting up our version of the Hippocratic Oath, we made a whole clause for our responsibility to society:

"To society, I pledge that:
I will champion accessible, equitable, and sustainable care for all;
I will build a safe environment by holding myself and others accountable for our biases;
I will confront historical traumas and systemic injustices that continue to impact people’s lives, especially those perpetuated by the institution of medicine;
I will fulfill my responsibility to advocate for progress."

Admin encouraged and approved this message because our institution is actively trying to better health care outcomes for our patients regardless of their predispositions and pre-existing conditions. For us, that means taking into account the impact social issues have on their health care and our own provision of that care. I am saying that the punch-in, punch-out method of being a physician for decades has certainly contributed to the chaotic state of healthcare in America today. So if these issues matter to you, and they at the very least will when frustrated voters elect leaders who may change how you practice / make your living from healthcare, being an advocate is in your interests as much as your patients'. At least then you can shape the dialogue and eventual policies.

We did the same sort of thing. It felt super preachy, idealistic, and phony. Talk is cheap as they say. If you want to improve outcomes, change the food environment. But nah, let’s focus on physician bias as the cause of all the disparities in health while ignoring the elephant in the room. Literally have an obesity rate of 40% and an alarming amount of kids developing NAFLD. If you really want to move the needle and change lives, start here! It’s a well known fact that there are higher rates of obesity within minority groups, although this is a problem for every American.

 

[readmypostsMD]

Listen. When I spent time with my fellow classmates drafting up our version of the Hippocratic Oath, we made a whole clause for our responsibility to society:

"To society, I pledge that:
I will champion accessible, equitable, and sustainable care for all;
I will build a safe environment by holding myself and others accountable for our biases;
I will confront historical traumas and systemic injustices that continue to impact people’s lives, especially those perpetuated by the institution of medicine;
I will fulfill my responsibility to advocate for progress."

Admin encouraged and approved this message because our institution is actively trying to better health care outcomes for our patients regardless of their predispositions and pre-existing conditions. For us, that means taking into account the impact social issues have on their health care and our own provision of that care. I am saying that the punch-in, punch-out method of being a physician for decades has certainly contributed to the chaotic state of healthcare in America today. So if these issues matter to you, and they at the very least will when frustrated voters elect leaders who may change how you practice / make your living from healthcare, being an advocate is in your interests as much as your patients'. At least then you can shape the dialogue and eventual policies.

“I will confront historical traumas and systemic injustices that continue to impact people’s lives“

this sounds like it was written by an SJW who went to a mid-tier college, majored in gender studies, and now retweets AOC daily while eating reheated egg rolls

Doctors diagnose and treat patients within a limited scope, obviously offering advice/social services when possible to help.

You can be a doctor + researcher/politician/social advocate, but doctor doesn’t encompass those latter categories

 

[rulerkk]

As far as I am aware, the obesity epidemic has a strong correlation to the governments allowance of corn subsidies leading to over-processed extremely cheap food. And the fast-food industry's dominance in our (and the world's) economy as a whole.

Wanna change that? Instead of just allowing these multi-billion dollar industries continue to lobby Congress indefinitely. you can bring up the issue with candidates and eventually vote in people who will fight against that. It all comes down to learning what the issue is, advocating for its change (because at the end of the day physicians are respected experts on all matters of health and its related sciences), and then voting in that change.

 

[dr_kateb]

Lol this is really just coming full circle back to stuff posted in pages 1-3.