SGU residency match 2013

[michow87]

I support MedPR. SGU's match list is weak.

Your argument seems to be that the match list is impressive because SGU will take anyone with a checkbook. That's a pretty shaky argument, and still doesn't disprove the match list's weakness. Even if you found a school where the avg GPA is 1.0 and the MCAT is 20, it still doesn't excuse a weak match list. The "oh, but the students are really dumb, so matching anywhere is a victory" is a hilariously weak argument.

I understand your perspective and I respect your opinion. I'm not saying that compared to US schools that SGU's match is comparable. I just gave credit where credit is due and ultimately, I was just being respectful of the SGU graduates that have "made it" as opposed to cutting down their successes like MedPR.

Anyways, back on topic

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[scotchtapetest]

Just to caution premeds:

1) Where the top 10-20% of a school match is irrelevant. Because there is a 80-90% chance that you are not going to be in the top 10-20%. So look at the entire match list. You should always look at the match for their average students, because chances are that you'll be average. An average student in any entering class at these places (SGU and the rest of them) will most likely NOT match anywhere as their attrition rate is in 20s-30s% and their match rate is around 50-60% (you do the math)! Overall (AOA+ACGME) match rate for DO is 88-92% depending on the year and overall attrition rate is <10%! and all the rest of DOs will get a spot (i.e. will be able to get licensed) if they want to which is not an option for FMGs.

2) SGU match list 2013 has nothing to do with pre-osteopathic forum... There are other forums for that on SDN.

3) Coincidentally, last year anesthesia and radiology had one of the highest percentages of unfilled spots on the ACGME side (around 8-10% of their spots went unfilled) this is compared to 1% of IM and 0% of EM I guess they had to fill those spots somehow!

4) You should always look at the match list for their graduating seniors and not include those people who had to take multiple years off AFTER med school to do research to match somewhere (a lot of carib grads do this)

5) 50+% (around 55%) of DO and 40+% (around 45%) of USMD grads end up in primary care so the biggest cohort of graduates go to primary care residencies on both sides.

2012:
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2012.pdf (1,970 DO's matched acgme)

http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2012prgstats.html (1,767 DO's matched AOA)


I'll let you look up past years.

Interesting. There was another poster a day or two ago who was saying only ~40% of DO students even try for ACGME and of those 40% there is approximately a 70% success rate. I guess that data was inaccurate.

That poster was me and I said at least 47.1% participated in the ACGME match for PGY1 spots and I also said that much greater than 75% matched ACGME last year (not even including pre-matches and scramble spots); If you are gonna quote people make sure you quote them right!

That 1970 number is not correct because it counts some people twice (some of those people are being counted for their PGY1 and PGY2 spot).

That 1767 number is also inaccurate because it doesn't include AOA scramble spots.

Yeah, it's what I'm saying.

Also, DO schools send their students to mostly AOA residencies (which are so called "weak" in didactics), while SGU has sent its share to ACGME spots.

Riiiiight, because we all know how strong the didactics are at some of those ACGME FMG factories on the SGU match list

It's not "by school", instead a total percentage of all DO schools that sent their students to ACGME spots.. On the other hand, SGU has sent its 100% to ACGME.

I know my facts.

100% of the 50% that don't drop out or actually match. Because 0% of the other 50% actually get to practice medicine (see #1 above)

 

[MedPR]

I support MedPR. SGU's match list is weak.

Your argument seems to be that the match list is impressive because SGU will take anyone with a checkbook. That's a pretty shaky argument, and still doesn't disprove the match list's weakness. Even if you found a school where the avg GPA is 1.0 and the MCAT is 20, it still doesn't excuse a weak match list. The "oh, but the students are really dumb, so matching anywhere is a victory" is a hilariously weak argument.

Thank you. I was beginning to think I was going crazy.

 

[MedPR]

Just to caution premeds:

1) Where the top 10-20% of a school match is irrelevant. Because there is a 80-90% chance that you are not going to be in the top 10-20%. So look at the entire match list. You should always look at the match for their average students, because chances are that you'll be average. An average student in any entering class at these places (SGU and the rest of them) will most likely NOT match anywhere as their attrition rate is in 20s-30s% and their match rate is around 50-60% (you do the math)! Overall (AOA+ACGME) match rate for DO is 88-92% depending on the year and overall attrition rate is <10%! and all the rest of DOs will get a spot (i.e. will be able to get licensed) if they want to which is not an option for FMGs.

2) SGU match list 2013 has nothing to do with pre-osteopathic forum... There are other forums for that on SDN.

3) Coincidentally, last year anesthesia and radiology had one of the highest percentages of unfilled spots on the ACGME side (around 8-10% of their spots went unfilled) this is compared to 1% of IM and 0% of EM

4) You should always look at the match list for their graduating seniors and not include those people who had to take multiple years off AFTER med school to do research to match somewhere (a lot of carib grads do this)

5) 50+% (around 55%) of DO and 40+% (around 45%) of USMD grads end up in primary care so the biggest cohort of graduates go to primary care residencies on both sides.





That poster was me and I said at least 47.1% participated in the ACGME match for PGY1 spots and I also said that much greater than 75% matched ACGME last year (not even including pre-matches, those just matching to PGY2 spots and scramble spots); If you are gonna quote people make sure you quote them right!

That 1970 number is not correct because it counts some people twice (some of those people are being counted for their PGY1 and PGY2 spot).

That 1767 number is also inaccurate because it doesn't include AOA scramble spots.



Riiiiight, because we all know how strong the didactics are at some of those ACGME FMG factories on the SGU match list



100% of the 50% that don't drop out or actually match. Because 0% of the other 50% actually get to practice medicine (see #1 above)

Eh, I know the numbers weren't exactly accurate, I was just trying to point out that I had been previously told data that didn't matchup with the >50% shown here.

 

[MedPR]

I understand your perspective and I respect your opinion. I'm not saying that compared to US schools that SGU's match is comparable. I just gave credit where credit is due and ultimately, I was just being respectful of the SGU graduates that have "made it" as opposed to cutting down their successes like MedPR.

Anyways, back on topic

I never said anything negative about the students at SGU. It was actually you (and that one other guy) who were saying that SGU students are not the best of the best because SGU does not "hand pick" students. Nice try at making me seem like the bad guy though.

Along that same train of thought, I said that SGU's match list is weak. Obviously students that match at competitive programs are great students.

 

[michow87]

I never said anything negative about the students at SGU. It was actually you (and that one other guy) who were saying that SGU students are not the best of the best because SGU does not "hand pick" students. Nice try at making me seem like the bad guy though.

Along that same train of thought, I said that SGU's match list is weak. Obviously students that match at competitive programs are great students.

Actually, I was simply sharing general knowledge. I was not taking away from the successes of others.

Also, have you had a chance to look at the "Big 4 in the caribbean vs DO schools stats...." thread? Seems like I'm not the only one who has caught onto your repetitive negativity

Anyways, concerning SGU. I'll just leave it at this...Good for the few that made it.

 

[MedPR]

Actually, I was simply sharing general knowledge. I was not taking away from the successes of others.

Also, have you had a chance to look at the "Big 4 in the caribbean vs DO schools stats...." thread? Seems like I'm not the only one who has caught onto your repetitive negativity

Anyways, concerning SGU. I'll just leave it at this...Good for the few that made it.

Right. Saying SGU can have a lesser match list than WashU because WashU gets to pick more competitive students isn't a put down to SGU students at all.

 

[michow87]

Right. Saying SGU can have a lesser match list than WashU because WashU gets to pick more competitive students isn't a put down to SGU students at all.

Is that not general knowledge? Is the whole of SDN not against going to the Caribbean unless it's a last resort?

/thread

 

[Refreshed]

Caribbean MD match lists are awful and no sane person will argue with that.

 

[laricb]

The bottom line if you cant get into a DO program SGU is an excellent last option

 

[HM3]

Know what's hilarious? Read over the responses in this thread :
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=954755 ,

Then come back to this one. For the profession we are going into, we might want to embrace just a tiny bit of objectivity.

 

[Docility]

I guess I'm impressed because I expected it to be much worse.

 

[wjs010]

Freesia88 probably thinks the sgu grads who matched into respectable residencies did not do it by themselves... There was an outside force involved.. In other words he thinks Caribbean grads are urm. Lol. Jk

 

[felix2929]

Freesia88 probably thinks the sgu grads who matched into respectable residencies did not do it by themselves... There was an outside force involved.. In other words he thinks Caribbean grads are urm. Lol. Jk

huh?

 

[Temperature101]

Is that not general knowledge? Is the whole of SDN not against going to the Caribbean unless it's a last resort?

/thread

Not true because there are some people who would choose caribbean over DO.

 

[laricb]

Freesia88 is an idiot

 

[MedPR]

Not true because there are some people who would choose caribbean over DO.

Indeed.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[michow87]

Not true because there are some people who would choose caribbean over DO.

Oops. I guess I should have said "general consensus".

 

[deleted92121]

Carib would not be my first choice but if I don't get into a DO program (and I will be casting a wide net), then I would consider SGU or Ross but no others. But I would do so knowing and accepting the risks. It is absurd to fly thousands of miles, shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars and not know what you are getting yourself into.

I think SGU, and Ross for that matter, have average to slightly below average match lists when compared to some US medical schools. You can go to SGU and end up a physician so long as you put in the work and jump through the hoops. But if you don't think you would be content working in FM, IM, or similar than you are hurting yourself. FM and IM are the residencies you are most likely to match, end of story. If you can't handle that, work harder and smarter at bolstering your application and apply DO, maybe even a few cycles. For the love of god, DO has grade replacement. It is almost like a mulligan. Make it work to your advantage.

 

[TriagePreMed]

2012:
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2012.pdf (1,970 DO's matched acgme)

http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2012prgstats.html (1,767 DO's matched AOA)

I'll let you look up past years.

Not only is this true, but a lot of people here haven't really met any Osteopathic students. I know a lot of people that actively wanted a DO residency. Many people go into DO school as their first choice and many others want Osteopathic residencies because they feel that without the DO option they wouldn't have been physicians, so they feel this responsibility/connection to give back to the profession.

 

[DrBumblebee]

Not only is this true, but a lot of people here haven't really met any Osteopathic students. I know a lot of people that actively wanted a DO residency. Many people go into DO school as their first choice and many others want Osteopathic residencies because they feel that without the DO option they wouldn't have been physicians, so they feel this responsibility/connection to give back to the profession.

+1

 

[Mbeas]

I know a lot of people that actively wanted a DO residency.

me.

I have no reason to go ACGME. I don't feel like I owe the profession ($200k + many years of life is enough ), but all of my wants are offered by the AOA.

 

[411309]

everyone keeps saying "sgu sgu" but i would choose AUC over ross and sgu in a heartbeat. youll be in debt less and the match list for auc is comparable to sgu so why go sgu over auc? and the attrition rate at ross is absurd, huge enough to be a red flag for me lol. but i love DO anyways so im glad im going that route.

 

[Dissected]

Not only is this true, but a lot of people here haven't really met any Osteopathic students. I know a lot of people that actively wanted a DO residency. Many people go into DO school as their first choice and many others want Osteopathic residencies because they feel that without the DO option they wouldn't have been physicians, so they feel this responsibility/connection to give back to the profession.

It is your responsibility to choose a residency where you will thrive and receive the best training possible. Not to "give back to your profession". More than half of DO's find that acgme is a better choice for their individual goals. Heck, the way things are looking right now I could very well end up at an AOA program due to how the match is set up, but it's not because I feel obligated in any way..it's about looking at individual programs and whether they are right for you.

You can try and spout knowledge about this topic when you have applied to and researched residencies for yourself. I have a hard time understanding what you are basing your opinion on at your current level in this process.

 

[TriagePreMed]

It is your responsibility to choose a residency where you will thrive and receive the best training possible. Not to "give back to your profession". More than half of DO's find that acgme is a better choice for their individual goals. Heck, the way things are looking right now I could very well end up at an AOA program due to how the match is set up, but it's not because I feel obligated in any way..it's about looking at individual programs and whether they are right for you.

You can try and spout knowledge about this topic when you have applied to and researched residencies for yourself. I have a hard time understanding what you are basing your opinion on at your current level in this process.

Sure, I would pick the one that would be best training possible. That doesn't mean everyone follows that. Did I say that people only do it to give back to the profession? Sometimes I seriously think some people here are looking for any excuse to jump on someone.

I already said I was basing it on having met people going through that process. I think if you had bothered reading instead of trying to jump on me you would have seen that. Did I claim absolute knowledge? Nope. How a post where I merely wanted to point out that some people actively want DO residencies is a reason to act the way you did is beyond me.

 

[MedPR]

Sure, I would pick the one that would be best training possible. That doesn't mean everyone follows that. Did I say that people only do it to give back to the profession? Sometimes I seriously think some people here are looking for any excuse to jump on someone.

I already said I was basing it on having met people going through that process. I think if you had bothered reading instead of trying to jump on me you would have seen that. Did I claim absolute knowledge? Nope. How a post where I merely wanted to point out that some people actively want DO residencies is a reason to act the way you did is beyond me.

Were those people competitive for ACGME?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[TriagePreMed]

Were those people competitive for ACGME?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

I don't know if they could have been. The ones I met didn't take USMLE because they never intended to go ACGME. 2 of them went into FM/OMM dual residency and the other one did pediatrics. One of them had DO family members.

 

[cliquesh]

Please take the usmle if you go to an osteopathic medical school. Lots of good programs are fine with DOs, but they want to see that you've taken the usmle. I even met a DO program director of an Acgme anesthesia program that had no idea how to interrupt the comlex.

 

[pre med 2014]

Is that not general knowledge? Is the whole of SDN not against going to the Caribbean unless it's a last resort?

/thread

the last 'resort'. No pun intended?

 

[mentalproblem]

First of all you guys are waisting your time making distinctions between AOA and ACGME accredited residency programs. Starting in June 2015 ALL AOA RESIDENCY PROGRAMS WILL BECOME ACGME CERTIFIED! This means that DOs will have access to ALL fellowship programs as MDs and MDs will have access to Osteopathic residencies given that they learn OMM. In addition DOs and MDs will both participate in the National Residency Matching Programs. The basic line here is that if there ever existed a barrier between DOs and MDs then it is certainly dissolving now (if not already dissolved a long time ago). More US DO medical schools are opening up around the entire US and is getting super competitive to get into every year. My point is if you go to a United States medical school then you are super competitive already. FMG are screwed in that the more DO and MD schools that open up in the future the more competition there is for FMG. Look up your statistics online. AAMC reports less than 50% of FMG actually get into residencies in the US. And this number will continue to decrease in the future. The immature distinction places between MDs and DOs is some pre-med paranoia crap. In the real world u are picked on if u are an international graduate than a US MD or DO graduate. And just incase if you guys did not know yet: THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN MD AND A DO IS ONE FREAKING CLASS TRAINING YOU ON THE MUSKULOSKELETAL MANIPULATIONS THAT ARE ACTUALLY USEFUL. You guys watch the Dr. Oz show? Maybe you can learn a bit about osteopathic medicine there. I would never refuse to learn more especially if I am learning a useful tool others dont have access too, but thats just me.

 

[darklabel]

Not true because there are some people who would choose caribbean over DO.

Just for those last two letters.

Anyways, 10 years ago, Caribbean was a great option for people who wanted the MD title and still have a chance at decent residency options. But things have changed, new medical schools are opening up and DO bias isn't quite the same (Average DO matriculants' stats are rising each year) so Caribbean is not quite what it used to be.

But yes, if yo have an ABYSMAL GPA and don't want to sacrifice for DO, then Caribbean is still a good option (only Big 3 though).

 

[mentalproblem]

4

 

[felix2929]

I would like to add one more thing: What makes you guys so sure that if you dont get into a US MD med school that you would get into a US DO med school? Getting into DO med school is VERY competitive. So unless if your GPA >3.5 and your MCATS are at least >28 then you can forget getting into med school in the US PERIOD! Caribbean would then be your only hope if you still wanna become a doc. All US medical schools are held to the same medical educational standards MD or DO. So if your GPA and MCATS are screwed dont think a DO med school will give you any more of a chance then an MD school. DO med schools just like their MD med school counterparts loose money when their medical students fail in med school and will not take the risk of accepting a student with lower stats. Sorry but thats the truth. So when you guys start comparing Caribbean versus US DO med school, I hope your states makes this comparison legit. As for the Caribbean, ANYONE and EVERYONE will get accepted. I have heard HORROR stories of students going to the Caribbean including SGU and NEVER being able to practice in the US.And like I said earlier, it is getting EXTREMELY hard for international medical graduates to actually get residency positions in the US. Think about it: When u r getting a med school education in the US you already have access to many resources such as shadowing physician while still in your 1st and 2nd year, doing scientific research (anyone heard of SGU research?), getting a combined DO/MD/PhD or DO/MD/MPH or DO/MD/MBA. So while you guys are on a deserted island, US med students are building up their resumes and their relationships with US docs making them automatically more competitive than you. If you want my advice, retake the MCATs, improve your GPA by retaking classes and/or doing a postbac or masters program to get into a U.S. med school (MD or DO). All I know is that if I heard of a doc who got his degree from the Caribbean, I think of a student who gave up or just did not work as hard, and hence his/her personality as a future physician. Good luck, no offense to anyone but just trying to help you guys while you make a decision that could change your lives forever!

M.D. class of 2011

Cool story. Glad I got to read it twice

 

[GopherMD]

....
M.D. class of 2011

And yet you posted in the PCOM discussion thread that you will be attending there next year...hmmmm.

 

[mentalproblem]

And yet you posted in the PCOM discussion thread that you will be attending there next year...hmmmm.

Posting on behalf of my MD friend..thanks

Feel free to take advice or leave it...just trying to help

 

[GopherMD]

Posting on behalf of my MD friend..thanks

Feel free to take advice or leave it...just trying to help

Oh, ok. I do agree that choosing a Caribbean MD program over a U.S. DO program is ill advised.

 

[Ravizzle]

You do not need >3.5 GPA and >28 MCAT to get into DO school. That is an average. Some get in with lower, some get in with higher.


Also fyi it is MCAT not MCATS....

Sent from my Galaxy S2

 

[Ravizzle]

Oh, ok. I do agree that choosing a Caribbean MD program over a U.S. DO program is ill advised.

+1

Sent from my Galaxy S2

 

[deleted245139]

Those MD schools have classes of hand-picked, highly competitive students... cream of the crop, if you will.

SGU is known to accept about anyone to pay for it, having bare minimums. So, it's easy to assume that 1/4 of its class size can make it to the end.

Those stats are really serious to think about.

1. SGU and the like DO select out top applicants, but not upfront. First they take your money, THEN the weak ones fail out and the very strong candidates apply state-side. It's medical school natural selection.
2. I think it's pretty clear how impressed you are with their match. I think that may be the route for you. I mean that in a non-sarcastic way. With a lot of hard work you can be one of the 2-4% who match a competitive specialty. Just be aware from day one of the uphill battle you face.

GL!

 

[cliquesh]

1. SGU and the like DO select out top applicants, but not upfront. First they take your money, THEN the weak ones fail out and the very strong candidates apply state-side. It's medical school natural selection.
2. I think it's pretty clear how impressed you are with their match. I think that may be the route for you. I mean that in a non-sarcastic way. With a lot of hard work you can be one of the 2-4% who match a competitive specialty. Just be aware from day one of the uphill battle you face.

GL!

Please don't go to a carribean school. I'm not a DO fanboy, but your options will be so much better at a DO school.

 

[DocEspana]

According to the most med students and med schools, it's considered competitive Especially when it is at a school like Mayo, UPenn, etc.

Anyways, I digress. Back to the thread

Of a note.. and this applies to every single person MD, DO, whatever.

There are certain hospitals: Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic come to mind, that are considered so stratospherically good that they dont give a damn what your degree says or who granted it. They give the highest test score the position. No one will ever look down on them based on who they match.

These programs are also frequently described as "malignant" and "undesirable" despite the crazy name brand recognition. Which may or many not play into the fact that there arent as many US MD students there. (dont misconstrue this as saying there arent still tons. Just not as many as you would expect) That goes across all the residencies at these type places.

 

[DocEspana]

Someone answer me something:

How did 750+ people get a residency spot when not a single one of these people have matched? Not one. Think about it. The earliest match is the AUA/Ophtho match and thats in late January. Caribbean students arent eligible for the military match. So all of these are either somehow misleading, lies, or outside of the match. Tons of them can be outside of the match. Of that there is no doubt.

alternatively i look at what the website actually says. This appears to be the PGY-2 list that I'm looking at. and its self-reported. Which I always go "hmm" about after that one time I found the resident who reported himself as IR for multiple years when he was regular rads and continued to report himself as IR even after he graduated and the program he trained at listed him as being in commuity practice.

 

[IslandStyle808]

First of all you guys are waisting your time making distinctions between AOA and ACGME accredited residency programs. Starting in June 2015 ALL AOA RESIDENCY PROGRAMS WILL BECOME ACGME CERTIFIED! This means that DOs will have access to ALL fellowship programs as MDs and MDs will have access to Osteopathic residencies given that they learn OMM. In addition DOs and MDs will both participate in the National Residency Matching Programs. The basic line here is that if there ever existed a barrier between DOs and MDs then it is certainly dissolving now (if not already dissolved a long time ago). More US DO medical schools are opening up around the entire US and is getting super competitive to get into every year. My point is if you go to a United States medical school then you are super competitive already. FMG are screwed in that the more DO and MD schools that open up in the future the more competition there is for FMG. Look up your statistics online. AAMC reports less than 50% of FMG actually get into residencies in the US. And this number will continue to decrease in the future. The immature distinction places between MDs and DOs is some pre-med paranoia crap. In the real world u are picked on if u are an international graduate than a US MD or DO graduate. And just incase if you guys did not know yet: THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN MD AND A DO IS ONE FREAKING CLASS TRAINING YOU ON THE MUSKULOSKELETAL MANIPULATIONS THAT ARE ACTUALLY USEFUL. You guys watch the Dr. Oz show? Maybe you can learn a bit about osteopathic medicine there. I would never refuse to learn more especially if I am learning a useful tool others dont have access too, but thats just me.

You do know most of this was posted 2-3 months ago and that those people who posted in the past know more than you do now.

There will always be a bias in terms of ACGME and AOA residencies even with unification (DOs will prefer DO students and MDs will prefer MD students). Plus there have only been a few studies that verify the usefulness of OMM (they basically take a lot of time to perform and have only yielded benefits for certain aliments of the body). DO and MD schools are both fantastic places to be in but remember that you want to learn something that can be still used in the ever changing field of medicine.

 

[logicallysmart]

You do know most of this was posted 2-3 months ago and that those people who posted in the past know more than you do now.

There will always be a bias in terms of ACGME and AOA residencies even with unification (DOs will prefer DO students and MDs will prefer MD students). Plus there have only been a few studies that verify the usefulness of OMM (they basically take a lot of time to perform and have only yielded benefits for certain aliments of the body). DO and MD schools are both fantastic places to be in but remember that you want to learn something that can be still used in the ever changing field of medicine.

Dude! I'll start by saying u sound like an obvious pre-med. u r in no position to say things as "always" and "never" under any circumstances. The PURPOSE of ACGmE and AOA merging is to united the two. I'm not gonna waist my time here explaining to a bunch of per-meds that the two patters after ur name is still DOCTOR. Dude!!! Hopkins, UCLA, DUKe have great professors of medicine that are DOs! I had a DO professor in my first year of med school. and also FYI OMM is up and coming. I had a friend sufferi g from disk herniation in her lower spinal cord and poor girl! Sad to say the MDs were only able to put her on muscle relaxers and she had to suffer for the rest of her life. Until she met a DO who perform OMm on her and was able to adjust/move/manipulate the disk in the area. She couldn't believe it! She is now ACTIVELY seeking a DO med school. I'm sorry but although I am in MD school I have ALOt of respect for OMM. I see them as having an addition tool I never had while gaining compatible medical education. For all the premed a out there:stop filling ur head up with nonsense! U wanna go to an island for ur education them go ahead! Like mental prob said: DO school is getting very competitive out there so do t assume if u get rejected from MD ull get into a DO.

 

[Member 5519]

I support MedPR. SGU's match list is weak.

Your argument seems to be that the match list is impressive because SGU will take anyone with a checkbook. That's a pretty shaky argument, and still doesn't disprove the match list's weakness. Even if you found a school where the avg GPA is 1.0 and the MCAT is 20, it still doesn't excuse a weak match list. The "oh, but the students are really dumb, so matching anywhere is a victory" is a hilariously weak argument.

When evaluating the opportunities that a school provides, you have to consider the average caliber of student... what matters to me when choosing which school to attend is the opportunity that *I* have. Maybe an example will help:

In the hypothetical situation that I was trying to decide whether to attend Harvard or attend SGU, let's say that Harvard has 75% of their grads end up in competitive specialties and that SGU has 5% of their grads end up in competitive specialties. Let's say that being a 98th percentile student at SGU correlates with being a 20th percentile student at Harvard. In that case, a student would actually have a better chance of landing a competitive residency by going to SGU.

This is a totally trivial example, but the point is - it matters what type of students that SGU is dealing with. Take all of the students from Harvard and stick them in SGU, and SGU will look a lot stronger, and it'll have nothing to do with the education, image, or opportunities provided by the school. Make sense?

 

[Member 5519]

Duplicate

 

[Mr Kenobi]

When evaluating the opportunities that a school provides, you have to consider the average caliber of student... what matters to me when choosing which school to attend is the opportunity that *I* have. Maybe an example will help:

In the hypothetical situation that I was trying to decide whether to attend Harvard or attend SGU, let's say that Harvard has 75% of their grads end up in competitive specialties and that SGU has 5% of their grads end up in competitive specialties. Let's say that being a 98th percentile student at SGU correlates with being a 20th percentile student at Harvard. In that case, a student would actually have a better chance of landing a competitive residency by going to SGU.

This is a totally trivial example, but the point is - it matters what type of students that SGU is dealing with. Take all of the students from Harvard and stick them in SGU, and SGU will look a lot stronger, and it'll have nothing to do with the education, image, or opportunities provided by the school. Make sense?

 

[SeekerOfTheTree]

When evaluating the opportunities that a school provides, you have to consider the average caliber of student... what matters to me when choosing which school to attend is the opportunity that *I* have. Maybe an example will help:

In the hypothetical situation that I was trying to decide whether to attend Harvard or attend SGU, let's say that Harvard has 75% of their grads end up in competitive specialties and that SGU has 5% of their grads end up in competitive specialties. Let's say that being a 98th percentile student at SGU correlates with being a 20th percentile student at Harvard. In that case, a student would actually have a better chance of landing a competitive residency by going to SGU.

This is a totally trivial example, but the point is - it matters what type of students that SGU is dealing with. Take all of the students from Harvard and stick them in SGU, and SGU will look a lot stronger, and it'll have nothing to do with the education, image, or opportunities provided by the school. Make sense?

My brain doesn't understand.

 

[as1212559]

Well at least this is a non-obvious username for an SGU admin. Strong post count to BS carib defense.

 

[DrNoo]

imho sgu is on par with established do schools. its attrition rate is said to be much lower than the other caribbean schools (30% for ross from what i hear). it also pays big bucks to secure quality rotation sites in the states, while some lower-tiered do schools have few ward-based rotations. a hard-working student can excel at either sgu or a do school. but if a student is struggling, going do would be a much safer route. and don't forget the match merger ahead; the landscape is going to change drastically for sgu.