SGU residency match 2013

[DrBumblebee]

A friend showed me SGU's 2013 residency match list from its official website. I've seen many "competitive residencies" (by residency type, not by program/hospital) filled by SGU students. Please, go to this link and check by yourselves. Assumption: these must be "facts", not fake data, for they've also provided with the residents' names (maybe I'm not crazy about too much conspiracy theory to think of that they're fake names.)

From the list, it looks like many SGU graduates have matched to competitive ACGME residencies along with FM, IM, EM.

I'm not a pro-Caribbean nor am I a US-MD applicant.. meaning, I'm happily applying for DO schools in this cycle due to that 1) I'd like stay in the States during medical school, and 2) don't wanna be labeled as FMG.

Having said that, I haven't seen such a strong match list at any of the DO school's websites, which I've applied.

What's the catch that I'm missing here?

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[411309]

it really doesnt look that different from the average DO school to me? I wouldn't say it's better or worse, I think most DO schools send 40-50% of their class into a primary care field and if you ran the statistics for that match list you may find the same thing or close to it

 

[DrBumblebee]

it really doesnt look that different from the average DO school to me? I wouldn't say it's better or worse, I think most DO schools send 40-50% of their class into a primary care field and if you ran the statistics for that match list you may find the same thing or close to it

Yeah, it's what I'm saying.

Also, DO schools send their students to mostly AOA residencies (which are so called "weak" in didactics), while SGU has sent its share to ACGME spots.

 

[michow87]

There's no catch. Those students that got into competitive residency programs at big universities worked their asses off and earned it. More likely than not, they did exceptionally well on their boards (these schools tend to put an extremely heavy focus on the USMLE) and made the right connections during their rotations.

I have to say that I am impressed with the amount of students that matched into university programs for both rads and anesthesiology. Unfortunately, I can't say that same about the super competitive residencies such as ortho, neurosurgery, derm, etc.

This pretty much goes to show that at the end of the day, your success is up to you. I will say that if an SGU student and a DO student were both competing for the same residency spot with the same numbers, more likely than not, the DO student will have the upper hand because he/she was trained in the US.

 

[411309]

I think the general idea is, while that may be the match list now it may become a lot worse in the upcoming years since a lot of new DO schools are opening, and many of the students will compete with the carib students for those limited amounts of residencies. And it comes down to if a program prefers do or FMGs, and right now the line between DO/American MD is starting to dissolve from what ive noticed.

 

[MedPR]

A friend showed me SGU's 2013 residency match list from its official website. I've seen many "competitive residencies" (by residency type, not by program/hospital) filled by SGU students. Please, go to this link and check by yourselves. Assumption: these must be "facts", not fake data, for they've also provided with the residents' names (maybe I'm not crazy about too much conspiracy theory to think of that they're fake names.)

From the list, it looks like many SGU graduates have matched to competitive ACGME residencies along with FM, IM, EM.

I'm not a pro-Caribbean nor am I a US-MD applicant.. meaning, I'm happily applying for DO schools in this cycle due to that 1) I'd like stay in the States during medical school, and 2) don't wanna be labeled as FMG.

Having said that, I haven't seen such a strong match list at any of the DO school's websites, which I've applied.

What's the catch that I'm missing here?

I'm missing the part where there are competitive residencies on that list?

Derm: 0
Ortho: 1
Neurosurg: 0
Optho: 0
Rads: 16 (ok this one is good)
Plastics: 0
Rad Onc: 0
ENT: 0
Urology: 1

Edit: Just realized there are 733 on that list. 16 in rads is not impressive at all.

 

[411309]

also I think SGU is unofficially the top carib school. If you look at a school like Ross, the attrition rate is huge. So just making it to the residency part is an accomplishment.

 

[DrBowtie]

Most of those Rads programs are small community places. A few have been recently or are on probation currently.

 

[Night Hawk]

A friend showed me SGU's 2013 residency match list from its official website. I've seen many "competitive residencies" (by residency type, not by program/hospital) filled by SGU students. Please, go to this link and check by yourselves. Assumption: these must be "facts", not fake data, for they've also provided with the residents' names (maybe I'm not crazy about too much conspiracy theory to think of that they're fake names.)

From the list, it looks like many SGU graduates have matched to competitive ACGME residencies along with FM, IM, EM.

I'm not a pro-Caribbean nor am I a US-MD applicant.. meaning, I'm happily applying for DO schools in this cycle due to that 1) I'd like stay in the States during medical school, and 2) don't wanna be labeled as FMG.

Having said that, I haven't seen such a strong match list at any of the DO school's websites, which I've applied.

What's the catch that I'm missing here?

There are 733 people listed as having obtained residencies. There were 26,722 spots...Apparently SGU will occupy 2.7% of all the first year residency spots in 2012

 

[Mbeas]

Carib>>>DO

 

[michow87]

I'm missing the part where there are competitive residencies on that list?

Derm: 0
Ortho: 1
Neurosurg: 0
Optho: 0
Rads: 16 (ok this one is good)
Plastics: 0
Rad Onc: 0
ENT: 0
Urology: 1

Both Rads and Anesthesiology are considered competitive residencies. LOL, how did you miss the 30 students that got into anesthesiology, a majority of them being big university programs???

 

[MedPR]

Both Rads and Anesthesiology are considered competitive residencies. LOL, how did you miss the 30 students that got into anesthesiology, a majority of them being big university programs???

Anesthesia is desirable, not competitive. Have you seen the median step 1 score? It's like 225.

Edit: 226 in 2011. http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

Edit 2: Did you notice that there are 733 people listed on that link? 30/733 is not impressive at all.

Edit 3: LOL, how did you miss that 30/733 is abysmal?

 

[michow87]

Anesthesia is desirable, not competitive. Have you seen the median step 1 score? It's like 225.

According to the most med students and med schools, it's considered competitive Especially when it is at a school like Mayo, UPenn, etc.

Anyways, I digress. Back to the thread

 

[DrBumblebee]

I'm missing the part where there are competitive residencies on that list?

Derm: 0
Ortho: 1
Neurosurg: 0
Optho: 0
Rads: 16 (ok this one is good)
Plastics: 0
Rad Onc: 0
ENT: 0
Urology: 1

Gas: 31 (USC, SUNY, Boston, Rush, Temple, Jefferson, ..)
Rads: 16 (1 of them is in Canada, though)
Neuro Surgery: 1 (Jackson Memorial in Miami !!)
Ortho: 1 (St. Joseph's)
Surgery: 24
Urology: 1

For a school that has been looked down upon as being FMG pumping school, that's a success.. for my understanding.

 

[Mbeas]

How did they match to so many ACGME programs?

 

[DrBowtie]

How did they match to so many ACGME programs?

Well they can't match to AOA programs.....

 

[moneytree]

There are 733 people listed as having obtained residencies. There were 26,722 spots...Apparently SGU will occupy 2.7% of all the first year residency spots in 2012

733. This is the catch.

31 gas matches, which sounds like a lot, but really isn't
31 / 733 = 4.2%

vs. a hypothetical school with a class size of 100, which needs only 4 anesthesiology matches to be considered "equivalent"

 

[DrBowtie]

Gas: 31 (USC, SUNY, Boston, Rush, Temple, Jefferson, ..)
Rads: 16 (1 of them is in Canada, though)
Neuro Surgery: 1 (Jackson Memorial in Miami !!)
Ortho: 1 (St. Joseph's)
Surgery: 24
Urology: 1

For a school that has been looked down upon as being FMG pumping school, that's a success.. for my understanding.

Considering they have 5-7x the amount of students graduating than the average sized medical school, I think your analysis should be tempered.

 

[MedPR]

Gas: 31 (USC, SUNY, Boston, Rush, Temple, Jefferson, ..)
Rads: 16 (1 of them is in Canada, though)
Neuro Surgery: 1 (Jackson Memorial in Miami !!)
Ortho: 1 (St. Joseph's)
Surgery: 24
Urology: 1

For a school that has been looked down upon as being FMG pumping school, that's a success.. for my understanding.

Good USMD match lists have 10+ people in rads out of a class of 150-200. 16/733 is embarrassing.. Same for all the other specialties you cited.

Edit: So where are we at on this list. For the sake of argument I'll just cave on the "Anesthesia is competitive" argument. So what, that's like 50 or so SGU kids in a competitive residency? 50/733. Great odds.

 

[411309]

how do they even have such a crazy large class size

 

[MedPR]

According to the most med students and med schools, it's considered competitive Especially when it is at a school like Mayo, UPenn, etc.

Anyways, I digress. Back to the thread

Any specialty at a top program will be competitive. An average student can get into an Anesthesia residency somewhere.

 

[timmaycakes]

There is no catch. They have all worked their asses off, like we will be doing in the years to come. If you look at other lower tier carib school I have to say that their match lists aren't too shabby either.

But what does that matter? Docs on SDN consistently tell us that within reason, our chances at our desired residency mostly depends on how hard we work and what we want to do. I sincerely doubt that there are many people who went to SGU so they could be a rural physician in Appalachia. There are far more of these students in DO and USMD schools.

Also some factors that help:

1. SGU is arguably the best carib school. They also the resources ($$$$$) to secure great rotation sites, faculty, and most importantly marketing to improve their image.
2. Attrition...like any other carib school. SGU even has decel programs that stretch out med school over 5 or 6 years if you need a slower pace. That is why they have such huge class sizes...it's hard to escape from the island . They don't mind because you pay them...$$$. So for every successful SGU dr. there are at least 3 or 4 that failed out.

 

[Dissected]

Yeah, it's what I'm saying.

Also, DO schools send their students to mostly AOA residencies (which are so called "weak" in didactics), while SGU has sent its share to ACGME spots.

50-60% of DO's enter acgme residencies each year. More than half.

Know your facts before you post.

 

[MedPR]

There is no catch. They have all worked their asses off, like we will be doing in the years to come. If you look at other lower tier carib school I have to say that their match lists aren't too shabby either.

But what does that matter? Docs on SDN consistently tell us that within reason, our chances at our desired residency mostly depends on how hard we work and what we want to do. I sincerely doubt that there are many people who went to SGU so they could be a rural physician in Appalachia. There are far more of these students in DO and USMD schools.

Also some factors that help:

1. SGU is arguably the best carib school. They also the resources ($$$$$) to secure great rotation sites, faculty, and most importantly marketing to improve their image.
2. Attrition...like any other carib school. SGU even has decel programs that stretch out med school over 5 or 6 years if you need a slower pace. That is why they have such huge class sizes...it's hard to escape from the island . They don't mind because you pay them...$$$. So for every successful SGU dr. there are at least 3 or 4 that failed out.

I'm pretty sure that statement assumes you are a USMD student.

 

[MedPR]

50-60% of DO's enter acgme residencies each year. More than half.

Know your facts before you post.

Source?

 

[michow87]

There is no catch. They have all worked their asses off, like we will be doing in the years to come. If you look at other lower tier carib school I have to say that their match lists aren't too shabby either.

But what does that matter? Docs on SDN consistently tell us that within reason, our chances at our desired residency mostly depends on how hard we work and what we want to do. I sincerely doubt that there are many people who went to SGU so they could be a rural physician in Appalachia. There are far more of these students in DO and USMD schools.

Also some factors that help:

1. SGU is arguably the best carib school. They also the resources ($$$$$) to secure great rotation sites, faculty, and most importantly marketing to improve their image.
2. Attrition...like any other carib school. SGU even has decel programs that stretch out med school over 5 or 6 years if you need a slower pace. That is why they have such huge class sizes...it's hard to escape from the island . They don't mind because you pay them...$$$. So for every successful SGU dr. there are at least 3 or 4 that failed out.

Bingo

/thread

 

[Dissected]

Source?

2012:
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2012.pdf (1,970 DO's matched acgme)

http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2012prgstats.html (1,767 DO's matched AOA)


I'll let you look up past years.

 

[DrBumblebee]

Good USMD match lists have 10+ people in rads out of a class of 150-200. 16/733 is embarrassing.. Same for all the other specialties you cited.

Edit: So where are we at on this list. For the sake of argument I'll just cave on the "Anesthesia is competitive" argument. So what, that's like 50 or so SGU kids in a competitive residency? 50/733. Great odds.

Those actually are some competitive results, regardless. Show me an MD school has that many gas/rad matches in a year, which has a "hand picked" number of competitive students at its hands. No way!

Considering that SGU accepts all types of students who have the guts to move to Caribbean, class size that big (like 750) isn't a huge decision maker in calculating the success of this school. I think they made a record here, if this data is not fake (that I've already assumed.)

 

[MedPR]

Those actually are some competitive results, regardless. Show me an MD school has that many gas/rad matches in a year, which has a "hand picked" number of competitive students at its hands. No way!

Considering that SGU accepts all types of students who have the guts to move to Caribbean, class size that big (like 750) isn't a huge decision maker in calculating the success of this school. I think they made a record here, if this data is not fake (that I've already assumed.)

Here you go. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=897848

Loyola: 8 anesthesia, 10 rads. Class size ~150 (12%)
WashU: 11 anesthesia, 9 rads. Class size ~120 (17%)
CWRU: 5 anesthesia, 23 rads. Class size ~200 (14%)

SGU: 30 anesthesia, 16 rads. Class size ~730 (6%)

Quite a few others in that thread with good match lists.

 

[DrBumblebee]

50-60% of DO's enter acgme residencies each year. More than half.

Know your facts before you post.

It's not "by school", instead a total percentage of all DO schools that sent their students to ACGME spots.. On the other hand, SGU has sent its 100% to ACGME.

I know my facts.

 

[DrBumblebee]

Here you go. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=897848

Loyola: 8 anesthesia, 10 rads. Class size ~150
WashU: 11 anesthesia, 9 rads. Class size ~120
CWRU: 5 anesthesia, 23 rads. Class size ~200

Quite a few others in that thread with good match lists.

SGU: 31 anesthesia, 16 rads

 

[felix2929]

It's not "by school", instead a total percentage of all DO schools that sent their students to ACGME spots.. On the other hand, SGU has sent its 100% to ACGME.

I know my facts.

I'm sure that isn't true because they students from around the world not all of whom intend to practice in the US. But assuming all american students get ACGME spots, where else would you suggest that they go? For an MD there is no other option so that portion of your argument seems irrelevant to me.

 

[MedPR]

2012:
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2012.pdf (1,970 DO's matched acgme)

http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2012prgstats.html (1,767 DO's matched AOA)


I'll let you look up past years.

Interesting. There was another poster a day or two ago who was saying only ~40% of DO students even try for ACGME and of those 40% there is approximately a 70% success rate. I guess that data was inaccurate.

 

[Dissected]

It's not "by school", instead a total percentage of all DO schools that sent their students to ACGME spots.. On the other hand, SGU has sent its 100% to ACGME.

I know my facts.

Oh, right. Your post makes complete sense now.

 

[DrBumblebee]

I'm sure that isn't true because they students from around the world not all of whom intend to practice in the US. But assuming all american students get ACGME spots, where else would you suggest that they go? For an MD there is no other option so that portion of your argument seems irrelevant to me.

I don't get what you mean, but we're talking about MD-residencies.

 

[MedPR]

SGU: 31 anesthesia, 16 rads

Yes, 47 students out of ~730. That's 6% of the class whereas other schools are matching 10%+ to those two specialties as well as a handful to other competitive specialties.

Here you go. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=897848

Loyola: 8 anesthesia, 10 rads. Class size ~150 (12%)
WashU: 11 anesthesia, 9 rads. Class size ~120 (17%)
CWRU: 5 anesthesia, 23 rads. Class size ~200 (14%)

SGU: 30 anesthesia, 16 rads. Class size ~730 (6%)

Quite a few others in that thread with good match lists.

 

[DrBumblebee]

Oh, right. Your post makes complete sense now.

I hope you mean it.

 

[Dissected]

I hope you mean it.

Nope. My post was about as sarcastic as they come. Read your first post, then click on those links that I posted. Then think real hard for a while.

 

[Mbeas]

Well they can't match to AOA programs.....

Thanks for taking my bait

 

[michow87]

Yes, 47 students out of ~730. That's 6% of the class whereas other schools are matching 10%+ to those two specialties as well as a handful to other competitive specialties.

You are a very selective reader. What DrBumblebee is saying is that SGUs numbers are impressive when you consider that they don't hand pick their applicants like competitive MD schools do.

 

[felix2929]

I don't get what you mean, but we're talking about MD-residencies.

It's not "by school", instead a total percentage of all DO schools that sent their students to ACGME spots.. On the other hand, SGU has sent its 100% to ACGME.

you were saying that SGU is superior or has had a superior match because 100% of its students have gone to MD residencies. My point is that as an MD your only option is an MD residency (unless you don't want to practice medicine.)

 

[oms2]

Interesting. There was another poster a day or two ago who was saying only ~40% of DO students even try for ACGME and of those 40% there is approximately a 70% success rate. I guess that data was inaccurate.

aoa match partiticipation varies greatly, ranging from 80% at msu to less than 20% at tcom
i.e. most msu students apply for aoa residencies whereas most tcom students skip the aoa match
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12124377&postcount=102
and both are great do schools.

 

[MedPR]

You are a very selective reader. What DrBumblebee is saying is that SGUs numbers are impressive when you consider that they don't hand pick their applicants like competitive MD schools do.

How does SGU not hand pick their applicants? Do they matriculate everyone who wants a seat? If not, then they hand pick their applicants.

Edit: Plus, schools don't pick students who they think will match to competitive residencies. They pick students who they think will be good doctors. The argument that "SGU doesn't 'hand pick' students, and therefore cannot be expected to have as good of a match list as a US MD school" is completely baseless. That's like saying DO schools cannot be expected to match students to competitive residencies because DO schools almost all (if not all) DO schools promote primary care.

 

[DrBumblebee]

Here you go. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=897848

Loyola: 8 anesthesia, 10 rads. Class size ~150 (12%)
WashU: 11 anesthesia, 9 rads. Class size ~120 (17%)
CWRU: 5 anesthesia, 23 rads. Class size ~200 (14%)

SGU: 30 anesthesia, 16 rads. Class size ~730 (6%)

Quite a few others in that thread with good match lists.

Those MD schools have classes of hand-picked, highly competitive students... cream of the crop, if you will.

SGU is known to accept about anyone to pay for it, having bare minimums. So, it's easy to assume that 1/4 of its class size can make it to the end.

Those stats are really serious to think about.

 

[michow87]

How does SGU not hand pick their applicants? Do they matriculate everyone who wants a seat? If not, then they hand pick their applicants.

So you are saying that SGU hand picks their students like competitive MD schools do? The answer is an indisputable NO. MD schools have a much more competitive pool to choose from as opposed to the Caribbean schools, who accept significantly more students than US Med Schools. I could be wrong, but my understanding of Caribbean schools is that they are run as "For-Profit" organizations.

If that doesn't clear things up, I don't know what will. Then again, based on how you post on SDN, you are usually just looking to pick an argument

 

[MedPR]

Those MD schools have classes of hand-picked, highly competitive students... cream of the crop, if you will.

SGU is known to accept about anyone to pay for it, having bare minimums. So, it's easy to assume that 1/4 of its class size can make it to the end.

Those stats are really serious to think about.

So you are saying that SGU hand picks their students like competitive MD schools do? The answer is an indisputable NO. MD schools have a much more competitive pool to choose from as opposed to the Caribbean schools, who accept significantly more students than US Med Schools. I could be wrong, but my understanding of Caribbean schools is that they are run as "For-Profit" organizations.

If that doesn't clear things up, I don't know what will. Then again, based on how you post on SDN, you are usually just looking to pick an argument

So then you believe that UG GPA and MCAT are a good predictor of how competitive you will be in medical school and in your career path? Because that's essentially what you're saying. "Well, SGU doesn't get to really pick the best of the best, so that's why their match list is weak."

 

[michow87]

So then you believe that UG GPA and MCAT are a good predictor of how competitive you will be in medical school and in your career path? Because that's essentially what you're saying. "Well, SGU doesn't get to really pick the best of the best, so that's why their match list is weak."

Would I say someone with a high GPA and high MCAT has a better chance at handling the workload of medical school than someone with a low GPA and MCAT? Definitely. Would admissions of most US med schools say the same? Definitely.

And I never said that SGU's match list is weak. I'm actually the one saying that I'm impressed. It is you, like in most threads that you post in, that is being negative.

 

[MedPR]

Would I say someone with a high GPA and high MCAT has a better chance at handling the workload of medical school than someone with a low GPA and MCAT? Definitely. Would admissions of most US med schools say the same? Definitely.

And I never said that SGU's match list is weak. I'm actually the one saying that I'm impressed. It is you, like in most threads that you post in, that is being negative.

You didn't answer the question. Someone who has a "better chance at handling the workload of medical school" isn't necessarily someone who will be competitive in medical school or choose a competitive specialty.

Statistically the match list is weak. Objectively the match list is weak. That's why the two of you who think the match list isn't weak are grasping at any reason you can think of to try and defend it.

 

[moneytree]

Would I say someone with a high GPA and high MCAT has a better chance at handling the workload of medical school than someone with a low GPA and MCAT? Definitely. Would admissions of most US med schools say the same? Definitely.

And I never said that SGU's match list is weak. I'm actually the one saying that I'm impressed. It is you, like in most threads that you post in, that is being negative.

I support MedPR. SGU's match list is weak.

Your argument seems to be that the match list is impressive because SGU will take anyone with a checkbook. That's a pretty shaky argument, and still doesn't disprove the match list's weakness. Even if you found a school where the avg GPA is 1.0 and the MCAT is 20, it still doesn't excuse a weak match list. The "oh, but the students are really dumb, so matching anywhere is a victory" is a hilariously weak argument.

 

[cliquesh]

That list isn't good. Is it better, on par, or worse than a DO's school match list? That is probably school specific. But all I can say is that list isn't good.