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[SUP360]

@gonnif, thanks for explaining that is very interesting. So, going to a Carib school is about the equivalent of going to medical school in Canada, Australia, UK, or any other foreign country if you are fluent in another language? Like, people could be going to any country with medical training, if approved by the WHO, and then be considered FMG... So,why don't Carib students who can't match just go do their residency in Jamaica, or some other foreign program?
Side question: do those Carib schools maybe give kickbacks to health professions advisors for recommending their schools? My HPA recommended SGU and Ross to me when she heard I was interested in working abroad. I was kind of shocked...

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

All the best in your DO career

 

[Goro]

Pay attention. Going to a Carib diploma mill is NOT like going to Oxford, or Kasturba Gandhi SOM in India.
These schools are off-shore so they can evade US accreditation standards. They practice educational malpractice.


From the wise gyngyn:

"The pool of US applicants from the Caribbean is viewed differently by Program Directors. The DDx for a Caribbean grad is pretty off-putting: bad judgment, bad advice, egotism, gullibility, overbearing parents, inability to delay gratification, IA's, legal problems, weak research skills, high risk behavior. This is not to say that all of them still have the quality that drew them into this situation. There is just no way to know which ones they are. Some PD's are in a position where they need to, or can afford to take risks too! So, some do get interviews.

Bad grades and scores are the least of the deficits from a PD's standpoint. A strong academic showing in a Caribbean medical school does not erase this stigma. It fact it increases the perception that the reason for the choice was on the above-mentioned list!

Just about everyone from a Caribbean school has one or more of these problems and PDs know it. That's why their grads are the last choice even with a high Step 1 score.

There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone."

The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all 250+ of the starting class at clinical sites (educational malpractice, really. If this happened at a US school, they be shut down by LCME or COCA, and sued.

The Carib (and other offshore) schools have very tenuous, very expensive, very controversial relationships with a very small number of US clinical sites. You may think you can just ask to do your clinical rotations at a site near home. Nope. You may think you don't have to worry about this stuff. Wrong.

And let's say you get through med school in the Carib and get what you need out of the various clinical rotation scenarios. Then you are in the match gamble. I don't need to say a word about this - you can find everything you need to know at nrmp.org.

You really need to talk to people who made it through Carib into residency, and hear the story from them. How many people were in their class at the start, how many are in it now? How long did it take to get a residency, and how did they handle the gap year(s) and their student loans? How many residencies did they apply to, how many interviews did they get, and were any of the programs on their match list anything like what they wanted?

A little light reading:

https://milliondollarmistake.wordpress.com/

http://www.tameersiddiqui.com/medical-school-at-sgu

@gonnif, thanks for explaining that is very interesting. So, going to a Carib school is about the equivalent of going to medical school in Canada, Australia, UK, or any other foreign country if you are fluent in another language? Like, people could be going to any country with medical training, if approved by the WHO, and then be considered FMG... So,why don't Carib students who can't match just go do their residency in Jamaica, or some other foreign program?
Side question: do those Carib schools maybe give kickbacks to health professions advisors for recommending their schools? My HPA recommended SGU and Ross to me when she heard I was interested in working abroad. I was kind of shocked...

 

[RogueBanana]

Ok captain obvious. Reading is fundamental like I stated from the very first post I am not interested in comments regarding getting talked out of it especially from he said she said crap. I need real life experiences and stories from individuals who have or embarked on the Caribbean route.
But thanks for everyone's two cents I appreciate it.

You won't find many because there aren't many. Most of those stories end very badly for the student.

Quite Frankly, your zeal for ignoring the data and advice of experts makes me question your suitability to hold the title of physician. Hardheadedness when provided data that disagrees with you does not a compassionate physician make. You're a perfect fit for SGU.

 

[RogueBanana]

It worked for our current president who intends to get healthcare, tax reform and funding for the wall all this week!

But does OP really want to become the Donald Trump of medicine?

"Dr.Trump, what do you have to say about all the patients you killed by prescribing them self-branded steaks instead of real medicine?"

"You are fake news. All those patients...believe me I know.... those patients are fine! They're alive and winning! Trust me. You can't trust the bodies in the morgue. The licensing board made those up. They're fake folks. Look at them! Those bodies are from the doctor that I replaced anyway. Here's a breitbart article that says I'm the best doctor ever. Look! They even cite me saying 'I'm the best doctor ever' as their evidence for the headline.. what is circular reasoning?.....no....Fake News. You are Fake News."

 

[tarheelpenner]

posted by gonnif/Goro, but just going to leave this link here for emphasis:

Million $ Mistake

 

[Goro]

posted by gonnif/Goro, but just going to leave this link here for emphasis:

Million $ Mistake

Also note (post#15) by Skip Intro, who made it though SGU over a decade ago.

Chances with mediocre MCAT but low GPA (upward trend)?

 

[CavsFan2016]

posted by gonnif/Goro, but just going to leave this link here for emphasis:

Million $ Mistake

This was so painful to read

 

[SUP360]

@gonnif, @Goro, Ohhhhhhhhh, ok, got it. Thanks for your time.

 

[mwsapphire]

posted by gonnif/Goro, but just going to leave this link here for emphasis:

Million $ Mistake

I actually found that one here in an old post and on the internet separately
Its so well written, although I don't know if it's been said, I kind of can't stand the guy.
He thinks he's "too good" for internal med and says that he only wanted to go to Med School to be an orthopod. I don't know- he's really entitled and it bothers me.
Like can we just discuss that for a second?

 

[SUP360]

Yeah I just finished looking at it. I feel bad for him except he kept bragging about how smart he was and putting down family medicine especially... It was decent of him not to mention names of people, programs, or places though. Bottom line: definitely never going offshore. Sounds like hell

 

[mwsapphire]

Yeah I just finished looking at it. I feel bad for him except he kept bragging about how smart he was and putting down family medicine especially... It was decent of him not to mention names of people, programs, or places though. Bottom line: definitely never going offshore. Sounds like hell

But someone else pointed out- an MCAT in the top 33 percent can be as low as 28, which may be why he didnt get US MD. He should have gone DO....a quick google search would have told him the extra money was worth it.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I actually found that one here in an old post and on the internet separately
Its so well written, although I don't know if it's been said, I kind of can't stand the guy.
He thinks he's "too good" for internal med and says that he only wanted to go to Med School to be an orthopod. I don't know- he's really entitled and it bothers me.
Like can we just discuss that for a second?

Or the fact he passed up Touro-CA deferred admission and would have easily matched into an AOA ortho residency by now.

 

[mwsapphire]

Or the fact he passed up Touro-CA deferred admission and would have easily matched into an AOA ortho residency by now.

But was money the factor...or was he boning for the MD?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

But was money the factor...or was he boning for the MD?

Special snowflake syndrome. Everyone wants to think they'll be the exception to the rule.

 

[Goro]

But was money the factor...or was he boning for the MD?

Yes.

 

[IslandStyle808]

But was money the factor...or was he boning for the MD?

He would have to wait another year to get into Touro versus getting into SGU that year. And so he chose the route of instant gratification.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I actually found that one here in an old post and on the internet separately
Its so well written, although I don't know if it's been said, I kind of can't stand the guy.
He thinks he's "too good" for internal med and says that he only wanted to go to Med School to be an orthopod. I don't know- he's really entitled and it bothers me.
Like can we just discuss that for a second?

Yeah I've read it a couple times and every time I think that there may have been something else at work instead of just the fact he was an IMG (obviously a big part, but not the only reason like he states). He honestly sounds insufferable. He may have never even matched AOA ortho with his personality flaws, seeing as they place such a premium on the audition rotation and fit.

 

[libertyyne]

Dude sounds like a complete tool. No insight into his short comings, and exaggerating stuff like " they were impressed i figured out how to use the EMR, see I AM A GENIUS".

 

[JJRousseau]

@gonnif, thanks for explaining that is very interesting. So, going to a Carib school is about the equivalent of going to medical school in Canada, Australia, UK, or any other foreign country if you are fluent in another language? Like, people could be going to any country with medical training, if approved by the WHO, and then be considered FMG... So,why don't Carib students who can't match just go do their residency in Jamaica, or some other foreign program?
Side question: do those Carib schools maybe give kickbacks to health professions advisors for recommending their schools? My HPA recommended SGU and Ross to me when she heard I was interested in working abroad. I was kind of shocked...

I imagine a medical students at prestigious institutions in Europe like Oxford or Cambridge have an easier time on the match compared to those from the Caribbean. But that's speculation based on anecdotal evidence.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[NeuResurgens]

P.S If you plan on talking me out of Caribbean medical school please keep your comment to yourself. I am fully aware of the pro's and cons on applying there. Thanks.

Too bad, I'm gonna tell you not to go anyway. If you're confident you'll get cardiology coming from a carib school you clearly don't understand the pros and cons of applying there.

Just try applying with a regular cycle to a bunch of MD and DO schools before dead setting yourself on the Caribbean. As was mentioned you likely have a chance at HBCUs and state schools as well as DO.

 

[Alienman52]

All,
I think the OP is long gone after not hearing what she wanted to hear. Lol


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[mwsapphire]

I imagine a medical students at prestigious institutions in Europe like Oxford or Cambridge have an easier time on the match compared to those from the Caribbean. But that's speculation based on anecdotal evidence.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

I know FMG's are fine getting matched here. I think it's that they don't make the same impression on PD's that's been mentioned ( poor decisions, bad grades, IA's, etc.). I have several relatives/family friends who were born raised in my home country and went to medical school there, but took the step here and matched into great residencies. One of our family friends is doing a psychiatry residency in NY and she has toddler son and a husband who takes care of him while she's away and it's just :3
And that guy in the story is a tool. If he were so smart he could have retaken the MCAT and gotten US MD. But Im just a huge sap ( in case that isn't obvious).

 

[Goro]

I know FMG's are fine getting matched here. I think it's that they don't make the same impression on PD's that's been mentioned ( poor decisions, bad grades, IA's, etc.). I have several relatives/family friends who were born raised in my home country and went to medical school there, but took the step here and matched into great residencies. One of our family friends is doing a psychiatry residency in NY and she has toddler son and a husband who takes care of him while she's away and it's just :3
And that guy in the story is a tool. If he were so smart he could have retaken the MCAT and gotten US MD. But Im just a huge sap ( in case that isn't obvious).

FMGs are 100% different cases than IMGs.

 

[JJRousseau]

FMGs are 100% different cases than IMGs.

I was beginning to suspect as much, so now I'm curious about an IMG with a medical degree from, say, the University of Cambridge or the Karolinska Institute.

 

[Goro]

I was beginning to suspect as much, so now I'm curious about an IMG with a medical degree from, say, the University of Cambridge or the Karolinska Institute.

Viewed VERY differently than one from a Carib diploma mill. C'mon, think this through. If you're breathing and can write a tuition check, you're in at SG"u" and the other thieving schools. You think it works that way at Cambridge or Heidelberg???

 

[mwsapphire]

Viewed VERY differently than one from a Carib diploma mill. C'mon, think this through. If you're breathing and can write a tuition check, you're in at SG"u" and the other thieving schools. You think it works that way at Cambridge or Heidelberg???

I always assumed the bias was b/c of the low quality education rather than low admissions standards.


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[libertyyne]

I always assumed the bias was b/c of the low quality education rather than low admissions standards.


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Why not both?

 

[JJRousseau]

Viewed VERY differently than one from a Carib diploma mill. C'mon, think this through. If you're breathing and can write a tuition check, you're in at SG"u" and the other thieving schools. You think it works that way at Cambridge or Heidelberg???

I thought they would be viewed very differently. But, sometimes my intuition of how I think things should work is not correct. Glad to see it's spot on in this instance though.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I was beginning to suspect as much, so now I'm curious about an IMG with a medical degree from, say, the University of Cambridge or the Karolinska Institute.

I thought they would be viewed very differently. But, sometimes my intuition of how I think things should work is not correct. Glad to see it's spot on in this instance though.

Foreign schools like the ones you mention are the foreign equivalent to our top 10 or so. Their grads that try and come here basically get treated that way in the US, they're the FMGs you see in very competitive programs. An IMG who managed to get an acceptance to these types of schools are the same caliber as people getting into Harvard and Penn, they won't have any trouble matching well.

 

[deleted731525]

FMGs are 100% different cases than IMGs.

But the actual data doesnt paint any rosier of a picture. Match rates for IMGs and FMGs are pretty similar.

 

[libertyyne]

But the actual data doesnt paint any rosier of a picture. Match rates for IMGs and FMGs are pretty similar.

Maybe, or maybe there are soo few of them that we have no real data to make an assertion one way or the other.

The UK is not even listed as having greater than 50 applicants total. I dont know what is going on with the Germans, but they match more often then not, and so do the Irish.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

But the actual data doesnt paint any rosier of a picture. Match rates for IMGs and FMGs are pretty similar.

Thats because there are many medical schools around the world of different quality

 

[Goro]

But the actual data doesnt paint any rosier of a picture. Match rates for IMGs and FMGs are pretty similar.

With FMGs, visa issues are the, well, issue, not poor choice making .

 

[intercity_roots]

First of all, for the original poster, like many have said, I'd encourage you to apply for a lower tier US DO school. Mostly bc it is financially advantageous, and although you might not be in a good position for competitive specialties, you are pretty much guaranteed the ability to match into SOMETHING. Nothing is guaranteed when you're coming from a foreign school, and the Match is designed to put IMGs at a disadvantage. (From the hospital that I worked at, we had FMGs who scored 270+ alongside USMGs who scored 240s... for US citizen IMGs the picture is a bit rosier, but yea... you're better off at ANY US school... not to mention the cost.)

However, there is a lot of BS in this thread (as is the case w/ pretty much every thread where someone mentions foreign medical schools on SDN)... Most of what I know about is SGU, so here you go>>> if you are a US citizen and go to SGU, and plan on getting over a 220 on Step 1, and are looking to get into Family, Internal, Path, or some other less competitive specialty... you will have a very high chance of matching... comparable to a US student. That being said, you could get away with lower scores as a US student, and you will never be super competitive for a top tier residency program as an IMG. Some people care about getting into a top tier residency and some people don't, so that's your choice to make. As for moderately competitive programs (EM/OBGyn, or Gen Surg at a lower tier program, etc...), you will have to score 15+ points higher than your US counterparts to match, on average. If you are looking at competitive specialties, then don't hold your breath, because it's prob not going to happen.

W/ all of that, despite what people say about SGU not being helpful or just pushing people out, in my experience SGU does A LOT to help you succeed. If you can't succeed at SGU, then honestly idk how you'd succeed in a US program. If you are doing poorly, they will switch you into a smaller learning environment. You'll be required to take the same exams as everyone else, but the small cohorts help a lot of people who have trouble adjusting to the material. Additionally, there is free tutoring every day of the week in groups through the dept of educ services, and one on one with the honor society. You'll have to share physical resources w/ A LOT of students, and there are minor inconveniences to living in Grenada, but the school invests heavily in student learning, and SGU's clinical affiliations have a wider breadth and quality in the US than any other international medical school and better than the low tier DO schools.

Overall, imo, if SGU is your only choice and you really believe that you are going to do well in med school and on Step (and you are willing to put in the work, and won't be happy in any other job.) Then SGU is a good option. I know there are other international medical schools in the Caribbean, but I wouldn't have gone to any of them. The first time pass rates are at minimum 15% points less than SGU, and the attrition rates are double. IDK your specific situation and neither does anyone else except for you, so in the end each prospective student has to decide what is the best choice for them. I'm happy that I'm at SGU, and as far as my grades up to this point are concerned, I don't foresee any difficulty in matching into the specialties I'm interested in, but my situation is not everyone's, so take it as just some more info for the pro/con list.