Ross vs. St. George's quality of education

[captain23]

I've read a lot of threads comparing the 2...mainly on island life and campus, etc. but no one really mentioned the differences in the quality of education between these 2 schools. I would like to know:

1. Which of the 2 brings out consistent students with high USMLE's? (in other words, which on has more students passing the first time?)
2. Which one has "better" professors? --- I know, weird question.
3. Which one has "harder/tougher" professors?
4. Which one has the lower attrition rate?
5. I heard a lot about Ross giving their students a hard time when it comes to those borderline of pass/fail...is that true of St. George's (or even all Caribbean schools)?
6. If you fail 1 class, do you have to repeat the whole semester again (and pay for it again)?
7. Which one has less difficulty when applying to clinical rotations for 3rd and 4th year? --- I understand this answer may vary depending on each person, but I heard Ross gives their students a very hard time, especially b/c they will not help you out with this process...apparently?

I just started searching up about these schools, so please lead me the right way! Those that went to these schools or are currently enrolled, please enlighten me.
Thanks to everyone who gives input!

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[ThoracicGuy]

Have you changed your mind from podiatry to medicine?

 

[captain23]

Have you changed your mind from podiatry to medicine?

I am looking at all my options in medicine

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I am looking at all my options in medicine

Then you should look at US MD and DO schools, not Caribbean...

 

[captain23]

Then you should look at US MD and DO schools, not Caribbean...

Look, if you have nothing to say about the original post, please do not be on this thread. I am not trying to be mean, I just hate when people change the subject on threads --ppl start getting off topic and it gets very annoying b/c it wastes everyone's time. I obviously was not asking about the US MD/DO programs. I already know all about them. I understand what I am asking about. It's either you answer the questions. or you don't post at all. Not trying to attack you, so please do not take this the wrong way.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Look, if you have nothing to say about the original post, please do not be on this thread. I am not trying to be mean, I just hate when people change the subject on threads --ppl start getting off topic and it gets very annoying b/c it wastes everyone's time. I obviously was not asking about the US MD/DO programs. I already know all about them. I understand what I am asking about. It's either you answer the questions. or you don't post at all. Not trying to attack you, so please do not take this the wrong way.

Maybe you don't know about the risks and consequences of Caribbean schools. You have a MCAT of 17. You claim you don't want to take it again because the new test is harder. Well, I have news for you, a 17 bodes poorly for passing your step scores. Going Caribbean, you need to do better than just passing. These tests will be harder than the mcat as well. You are seeing yourself up for hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with nothing to show for it.

So yes, I changed the topic, because that was most pertinent to you and your goals. This is also a public forum. You don't get to tell petiole what to talk about and what not to talk about.

Realistically, you need to retake the MCAT after appropriate preparation. Frankly with a 17, sgu and Ross are unlikely to take you either...

 

[captain23]

Maybe you don't know about the risks and consequences of Caribbean schools. You have a MCAT of 17. You claim you don't want to take it again because the new test is harder. Well, I have news for you, a 17 bodes poorly for passing your step scores. Going Caribbean, you need to do better than just passing. These tests will be harder than the mcat as well. You are seeing yourself up for hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with nothing to show for it.

So yes, I changed the topic, because that was most pertinent to you and your goals. This is also a public forum. You don't get to tell petiole what to talk about and what not to talk about.

Realistically, you need to retake the MCAT after appropriate preparation. Frankly with a 17, sgu and Ross are unlikely to take you either...

First, you don't know me and my situation. at all. So don't judge me for my scores because you do not know my life and the things I go through. I said it once, but I guess ill have to say it again, i was not trying to attack you - but i guess you find it okay to attack me. Please save your breath and your time. I know what I am capable of. I do not need to explain anything to you. I do know my risks and have read up a lot about this, more than you think. And actually, you are wrong, I did get into Ross for next summer. I created this thread to address a certain topic. Don't divert it.

 

[Medstart108]

If you want my uneducated opinion, I would guess SGU is the better school. I've heard better things about it over the years compared to Ross. They seem to be more expensive but take care of their students better than Ross with less attrition rate and they are more selective I believe.

 

[captain23]

If you want my uneducated opinion, I would guess SGU is the better school. I've heard better things about it over the years compared to Ross. They seem to be more expensive but take care of their students better than Ross with less attrition rate and they are more selective I believe.

Thank you for your input!

 

[ThoracicGuy]

First, you don't know me and my situation. at all. So don't judge me for my scores because you do not know my life and the things I go through. I said it once, but I guess ill have to say it again, i was not trying to attack you - but i guess you find it okay to attack me. Please save your breath and your time. I know what I am capable of. I do not need to explain anything to you. I do know my risks and have read up a lot about this, more than you think. And actually, you are wrong, I did get into Ross for next summer. I created this thread to address a certain topic. Don't divert it.

It's no skin off my back if you spend your money going to Ross. (Though i guess technically it will be partly my money given student loans...) I wish you luck. Given your numbers and the risks of the Caribbean schools in general, I worry about your success.

And again, this is a public forum, so you can't dictate that we only talk about certain things. You seem to have made up your mind, so do your best...

 

[Mad Jack]

SGU is better in every way, but still falls below the lowest of the low DO schools, Sackler, and top schools in Europe.

 

[captain23]

It's no skin off my back if you spend your money going to Ross. (Though i guess technically it will be partly my money given student loans...) I wish you luck. Given your numbers and the risks of the Caribbean schools in general, I worry about your success.

And again, this is a public forum, so you can't dictate that we only talk about certain things. You seem to have made up your mind, so do your best...

I appreciate your worries, but I have no need for them. Also, I have not made up my mind yet, hence this thread.

 

[Mad Jack]

Also, if you're scared of retaking a 17, you will be terrified of the USMLE. It makes the MCAT look like a vacation in every way. Seriously, the MCAT is a joke compared to the USMLE, it's positively eye-rolling in comparison.

 

[captain23]

Also, if you're scared of retaking a 17, you will be terrified of the USMLE. It makes the MCAT look like a vacation in every way. Seriously, the MCAT is a joke compared to the USMLE, it's positively eye-rolling in comparison.

But isn't the USMLE based on your first 2 years of basic science content? The mcat isnt like that at all. I've read many articles saying they are not the same test and neither do they predict success for the usmle. They are just too different.

 

[Mad Jack]

But isn't the USMLE based on your first 2 years of basic science content? The mcat isnt like that at all. I've read many articles saying they are not the same test and neither do they predict success for the usmle. They are just too different.

The bio and physics sections of the MCAT are the greatest predictors of success on the USMLE. It is a multiple choice test, and is far, far more difficult than the MCAT. Take it from someone that got a 35 on the MCAT, the USMLE is rigoddamndiculous in ways you can't even fathom. Saying you can take down the USMLE after bombing the MCAT is like saying you can wrestle a bear after being mangled by a chihuahua.

 

[captain23]

The bio and physics sections of the MCAT are the greatest predictors of success on the USMLE. It is a multiple choice test, and is far, far more difficult than the MCAT. Take it from someone that got a 35 on the MCAT, the USMLE is rigoddamndiculous in ways you can't even fathom. Saying you can take down the USMLE after bombing the MCAT is like saying you can wrestle a bear after being mangled by a chihuahua.

No worries, I know I can do it.

 

[Mad Jack]

No worries, I know I can do it.

Good luck. You're going to need it, like a monkey shot into space hoping to survive or a mouse sent to battle a tiger. You aren't the underdog. You're way lower than that. You're like, the under-underdog. That's how bad a 17 is. You should really retake and re-evaluate your hopes of becoming a physician, as everything your life depends on is multiple choice tests, and you've proven you test in the 10th-13th percentile. That's roughly a level that randomly guessing would get you. The MCAT is much, much harder. I'm trying to ask you to be realistic, as if you go to SGU or Ross (SGU probably won't accept you with a 17) you will be hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt that you will be completely unable to pay back if you don't pass the USMLE. I'm trying to save you.

 

[darkeon]

st.george if u want an answer...but I would strongly advise hitting back podiatry. MCat of 17 may not even be competitive for pod schools though you'd do well consulting the prepod forum.

 

[the argus]

SGU is better in every way

This opinion is based on what exactly? I researched both, was accepted at both, and chose Ross. Ross probably accepts some less qualified people leading to a maybe slightly higher attrition rate, but that really doesn't matter. It's not like they choose people randomly and kick them out. If you fail out of Ross, you would also have failed out of SGU.

To the OP, there's really no difference between the two except for daily life on the island. Both have similar first time USMLE pass rates. Most professors at both schools are fluid. Attrition rate is significant at both. If you fail a class at either you should seriously consider cutting your losses as it will make it much more difficult to match. Ross helps students schedule electives, and in fact many of my electives were alongside SGU students. They have the same match profiles. The islands are different, that's pretty much it.

 

[galactus]

The islands are different, that's pretty much it.

There's your difference.

 

[Mad Jack]

This opinion is based on what exactly? I researched both, was accepted at both, and chose Ross. Ross probably accepts some less qualified people leading to a maybe slightly higher attrition rate, but that really doesn't matter. It's not like they choose people randomly and kick them out. If you fail out of Ross, you would also have failed out of SGU.

To the OP, there's really no difference between the two except for daily life on the island. Both have similar first time USMLE pass rates. Most professors at both schools are fluid. Attrition rate is significant at both. If you fail a class at either you should seriously consider cutting your losses as it will make it much more difficult to match. Ross helps students schedule electives, and in fact many of my electives were alongside SGU students. They have the same match profiles. The islands are different, that's pretty much it.

SGU has lower attrition, a better reputation, a higher match rate, better rotations on average, better professors, and better support for their students during school and post-graduation. There's been a lot of threads on it in the past, I've never seen one where Ross has come out on top. Ross, at the end if the day, is far more of a diploma mill than SGU is.

Regardless, both are bad options in this day and age, with the residency crunch looming in the horizon, US IMGs will soon be a thing of the past.

 

[RustBeltOnc]

Also, if you're scared of retaking a 17, you will be terrified of the USMLE. It makes the MCAT look like a vacation in every way. Seriously, the MCAT is a joke compared to the USMLE, it's positively eye-rolling in comparison.

I agree 1000 %. Having pondered this now for 20 years, and the ABIM MOC silliness, I myself support de emphasis of MCAT in medical school admissions. Making it optional OK by me.

 

[DocBlin]

From reading this thread it is apparent the OP is not in a reality plane. With a 17 on the old MCAT the OP's chances of obtaining a position at even the lowest tier of POD schools is limited. OP, the question of comparing caribbean med schools, though often repeated over the years here on SDN, has no real bearing on you. And is old news. The real issue is as 'MadJack' posted the loss of residency slots by 2020 for US-IMGs! I think the SDN moderator should terminate this thread, so there are no more feelings of individual posters feeling attacked.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

From reading this thread it is apparent the OP is not in a reality plane. With a 17 on the old MCAT the OP's chances of obtaining a position at even the lowest tier of POD schools is limited. OP, the question of comparing caribbean med schools, though often repeated over the years here on SDN, has no real bearing on you. And is old news. The real issue is as 'MadJack' posted the loss of residency slots by 2020 for US-IMGs! I think the SDN moderator should terminate this thread, so there are no more feelings of individual posters feeling attacked.

I'm not sure there is anything to warrant this thread being closed. Being told something you don't want to hear is not attacking someone. Too many people engage in the magical thinking that even though they did bad in undergrad OR the mcat, they well suddenly do much better in medical school and doing well on their exams will just happen. That's how people end up in debt with nothing to show for it. If that hurts people's feelings to hear that, well maybe medicine is just not for them...

 

[the argus]

SGU has lower attrition, a better reputation, a higher match rate, better rotations on average, better professors, and better support for their students during school and post-graduation. There's been a lot of threads on it in the past, I've never seen one where Ross has come out on top. Ross, at the end if the day, is far more of a diploma mill than SGU is

Ok, so basically you're basing it on secondhand (or thirdhand, etc) knowledge gleaned from reading anonymous postings on an internet message board. I will never understand why people on this forum feel the need to comment on topics that they actually know nothing about.

Regardless, both are bad options in this day and age, with the residency crunch looming in the horizon, US IMGs will soon be a thing of the past.

And again, more SDN groupthink analysis that has no real basis in reality but is great for fear mongering. The actual matriculation numbers for USMD/DO so far do not show class sizes increasing at a rate that would make this statement true in the foreseeable future. And with the merger coming up, more residency positions will be open to US-IMGs, not less.

People have been making this comment about the big bad residency crunch for the last 5 years on SDN, the only thing that changes is the year it is supposedly gonna happen. When it began it was 2014, and that didn't happen. Then it was 2015, and that certainly didn't happen. We have the matriculation numbers for 2014, showing it isn't gonna come close to happening in 2018 either.

 

[laricb]

SGU is better in every way, but still falls below the lowest of the low DO schools, Sackler, and top schools in Europe.

Wrong, has better residency acceptance rates then most DO Schools and many MD schools

 

[Mad Jack]

Ok, so basically you're basing it on secondhand (or thirdhand, etc) knowledge gleaned from reading anonymous postings on an internet message board. I will never understand why people on this forum feel the need to comment on topics that they actually know nothing about.

And again, more SDN groupthink analysis that has no real basis in reality but is great for fear mongering. The actual matriculation numbers for USMD/DO so far do not show class sizes increasing at a rate that would make this statement true over the next 5 years. And with the merger coming up, more residency positions will be open to US-IMGs, not less.

Go to valuemd and talk to them about it. SGU students report FAR more positive experiences, match at a higher rate, and the school has far more resources provided to them when compared to Ross. SGU has a better reputation for turning out quality students than Ross (largely due to their higher standards for admission when compared to Ross). SGU has a lower attrition rate than Ross. SGU has a greater number of reliable clinical placement sites in third and fourth year than Ross. Both the facts and the opinion line up with SGU beating out Ross, and I'd love to see a compelling argument by you as to why the general mantra of SGU being the best school in the Carib is wrong.

 

[Mad Jack]

Wrong, has better residency acceptance rates then most DO Schools and many MD schools

If you read the reports, DO schools had >99% placement last year between the two matches and the scramble (98% placement is actually a COCA standard, and falling below it will land your school on probation). My school had 100% placement. SGU does not have 99% placement by a long shot, they consistently are in the mid-70s to mid-80s (of the students that make it to the match), far below any MD or DO school, and they also have a far, far greater rate of attrition than DO schools. What SGU does have is a higher rate of placement into certain competitive ACGME programs (derm, urology, etc) than many DO schools. Even those matches are, however, very, very rare. The typical SGU grad is in community IM, FM, peds, or psych if you look at their match list.

 

[the argus]

Go to valuemd and talk to them about it. SGU students report FAR more positive experiences, match at a higher rate, and the school has far more resources provided to them when compared to Ross. SGU has a better reputation for turning out quality students than Ross (largely due to their higher standards for admission when compared to Ross). SGU has a lower attrition rate than Ross. SGU has a greater number of reliable clinical placement sites in third and fourth year than Ross. Both the facts and the opinion line up with SGU beating out Ross, and I'd love to see a compelling argument by you as to why the general mantra of SGU being the best school in the Carib is wrong.

This is silly, you respond to my criticism of basing your opinion on anonymous internet postings by telling me to go read more anonymous internet postings. All the things you listed, other than attrition rate, are completely based on personal opinion or just factually wrong. Ross/SGU graduate >800 people per year, so you realize you are basing your opinions on the anonymous ramblings of <1% of the student body, right?

Again, why do you feel the need (or qualified) to comment on this topic?

 

[Mad Jack]

This is silly, you respond to my criticism of basing your opinion on anonymous internet postings by telling me to go read more anonymous internet postings. All the things you listed, other than attrition rate, are completely based on personal opinion or just factually wrong.

Again, why do you feel the need (or qualified) to comment on this topic?

SGU has an attrition rate of 10%. Ross has one of 40-50%, depending on the class. That says a lot. As to match rates, we've got a good idea from the ECFMG that SGU grads match to their preferred specialty at a higher rate than Ross grads. Ross has a long, storied history of administrative problems that SGU does not have. As to why I'm commenting on this- because SGU is a better school (and that was the OP's question), as evidenced by the opinions of past students on this forum and others, and, based on their attrition rate, likely is a better school academically. SGU has a better reputation amongst most of the faculty I have interacted with in the past, with many passing Ross off as a diploma mill. SGU has a better match list, with more than double the number of grads going into surgery (this is a good indicator of general competitiveness of candidates, as surgery is a field that carries high interest from school-to-school and moderate-to-high competitiveness) and matches in neurosurgery, in addition to better matches overall on the IM front, all despite having less students in the match than Ross. SGU is a better school, period. How could a school with lower attrition, a better match rate, and better matches be the inferior school? Particularly when Ross has had a notable history of issues with administration and faculty that SGU simply doesn't have.

https://postgrad.sgu.edu/ResidencyAppointmentDirectory.aspx?year=2015
http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/2015residencyappointments.cfm

 

[the argus]

SGU has an attrition rate of 10%. Ross has one of 40-50%, depending on the class. That says a lot.

Not sure where you are getting your numbers (pretty sure you are sitting on it). Ross' attrition rate is not even close to 40-50%. It was 20-25% for my year.

As to match rates, we've got a good idea from the ECFMG that SGU grads match to their preferred specialty at a higher rate than Ross grads

Ross' match rate was 88% this year, can't imagine SGU's was much higher than that.

SGU has a better reputation amongst most of the faculty I have interacted with in the past, with many passing Ross off as a diploma mill.

Again, pure secondhand personal opinion.

SGU has a better match list, with more than double the number of grads going into surgery (this is a good indicator of general competitiveness of candidates, as surgery is a field that carries high interest from school-to-school and moderate-to-high competitiveness) and matches in neurosurgery, in addition to better matches overall on the IM front

This sentence is the most telling of how uninformed your opinion is. SGU does not have twice the grads going into surgery. SGU had 27 categorical surgery matches, Ross had 22. What I assume you did is fail to see that column on left for SGU saying prelimary/categorical.

And SGU had 1 neurosurgery match in 2014, big deal. Ross had 2 ophtho matches in 2015, also no big deal. Opinions should not be based on outliers.

As for IM matches, they have the same tier of matches, with actually a very significant amount of overlap.

I'm gonna end my involvement in this discussion here, I've said my piece.

 

[Mad Jack]

Not sure where you are getting your numbers (pretty sure you are sitting on it). Ross' attrition rate is not even close to 40-50%. It was 20-25% for my year.
Ross' match rate was 88% this year, can't imagine SGU's was much higher than that.
Again, pure secondhand personal opinion.

This sentence is the most telling of how uninformed your opinion is. SGU does not have twice the grads going into surgery. SGU had 27 categorical surgery matches, Ross had 22. What I assume you did is fail to see that column on left for SGU saying prelimary/categorical.

And SGU had 1 neurosurgery match in 2014, big deal. Ross had 2 ophtho matches in 2015, also no big deal. Opinions should not be based on outliers.

As for IM matches, they have the same tier of matches, with actually a very significant amount of overlap.

I'm gonna end my involvement in this discussion here, I've said my piece.

Sorry, I mixed finished at all and finished on time up. Attrition is 20-27% per class. From Bloomberg:

"Of those who remained, 66 percent of AUC students and 52 percent of students at DeVry’s other Caribbean medical school, Ross University School of Medicine, finished their program -- typically two years of sciences followed by two years of clinical rotations -- on time in the academic year ended on June 30, 2012."

Only 52% graduating on time sounds like a poor education is being provided to me. SGU has nowhere near such poor performance.

 

[mcat_taker]

This opinion is based on what exactly? I researched both, was accepted at both, and chose Ross. Ross probably accepts some less qualified people leading to a maybe slightly higher attrition rate, but that really doesn't matter. It's not like they choose people randomly and kick them out. If you fail out of Ross, you would also have failed out of SGU.

To the OP, there's really no difference between the two except for daily life on the island. Both have similar first time USMLE pass rates. Most professors at both schools are fluid. Attrition rate is significant at both. If you fail a class at either you should seriously consider cutting your losses as it will make it much more difficult to match. Ross helps students schedule electives, and in fact many of my electives were alongside SGU students. They have the same match profiles. The islands are different, that's pretty much it.

What made you choose Ross over SGU if you were accepted at both? Just curious. I would think island/campus life would play a role in deciding to live in a place for 2 years (and I've heard dominica is just not very nice). I personally know way more SGU grads/current students than Ross grads/current students. My friend who went to NYCOM said he only saw SGU kids on his NYC rotations and never saw any Ross kids (In fact he said NYCOM students were severely outnumbered by SGU kids on all his rotations). This is just anecdote of course.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Wrong, has better residency acceptance rates then most DO Schools and many MD schools

 

[the argus]

What made you choose Ross over SGU if you were accepted at both? Just curious. I would think island/campus life would play a role in deciding to live in a place for 2 years (and I've heard dominica is just not very nice). I personally know way more SGU grads/current students than Ross grads/current students. My friend who went to NYCOM said he only saw SGU kids on his NYC rotations and never saw any Ross kids (In fact he said NYCOM students were severely outnumbered by SGU kids on all his rotations). This is just anecdote of course.

Nice is in the eye of the beholder I guess. I chose Ross because I thought I would like living in Dominica better than Grenada, and I would definitely make the same choice again. I loved my time there. I'm very outdoorsy and it was paradise for me. The hiking and diving are amazing. It didn't bother me when the grocery store ran out of something, I would just eat something else. I didn't care when it rained and the water out of the faucet turned brown and was then shut off. A lot of people down there can't wait to leave. If you're looking for white sand beaches, resorts, clubs, fancy restaurants, shopping, etc then Dominica is definitely not the place for you.

As for NYC, I did most of my rotations there. Ross has hundreds of students there for clinical rotations at multiple sites. Every rotation I did there was alongside students from either NYCOM, Touro, SUNY Downstate, or Cornell. A couple were also with SGU students.

 

[laricb]

Really and you know it but can't accept it

 

[laricb]

If you read the reports, DO schools had >99% placement last year between the two matches and the scramble (98% placement is actually a COCA standard, and falling below it will land your school on probation). My school had 100% placement. SGU does not have 99% placement by a long shot, they consistently are in the mid-70s to mid-80s (of the students that make it to the match), far below any MD or DO school, and they also have a far, far greater rate of attrition than DO schools. What SGU does have is a higher rate of placement into certain competitive ACGME programs (derm, urology, etc) than many DO schools. Even those matches are, however, very, very rare. The typical SGU grad is in community IM, FM, peds, or psych if you look at their match list.

But you're school only has 150 graduating students to place SGU has 700. Also SGU has a 100% placement rate within 2 yrs

#1 provider of doctors into first-year US residencies for the last five years combined. More than 830 US residencies in 2015.
According to published information as of April 2015

 

[Mad Jack]

Also SGU has a 100% placement rate within 2 yrs*

*citation needed

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Really and you know it but can't accept it

Show us the data that SGU has a better residency acceptance rate than DO schools and many MD schools. I don't want to see PR propaganda from the school either.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

*citation needed

 

[laricb]

Show us the data that SGU has a better residency acceptance rate than DO schools and many MD schools. I don't want to see PR propaganda from the school either.

Show me data that isn't propaganda that states it doesn't, its all propaganda US or not.....

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Show me data that isn't propaganda that states it doesn't, its all propaganda US or not.....

US med schools have hard data that shows the number of matriculants, graduates, and matching residents. I'm sure SGU, Ross, and the others all have this data as well, but they won't ever publish it. Don't you wonder why they never tell how many of their students that start on day one actually end up graduating? Do they ever give hard data that says how many students that do graduate take over four years to do it? Do they give full information on matching? I've never seen that information. What do these schools have to hide?

So you made the claim, its not up to me to prove anything, it is up to you.

 

[Skip Intro]

Ross, at the end if the day, is far more of a diploma mill than SGU is.

What?!!?! Neither school is a "diploma mill". (I don't think you understand what exactly it means to make such an assertion.)

Here's the criteria:

(1) Will you Match into the specialty you want at the end?
(2) How much will it cost you (time, money, etc.) to train there?
(3) Where are you most likely to do residency, live, work (based on where graduates tend to Match)?

These are individual choices.

SGU has historically had better clinical clerkship opportunities. Beyond that, it's a toss-up.

-Skip

 

[Goro]

A little light reading for you, OP.

https://milliondollarmistake.wordpress.com/

I've read a lot of threads comparing the 2...mainly on island life and campus, etc. but no one really mentioned the differences in the quality of education between these 2 schools. I would like to know:

1. Which of the 2 brings out consistent students with high USMLE's? (in other words, which on has more students passing the first time?)
2. Which one has "better" professors? --- I know, weird question.
3. Which one has "harder/tougher" professors?
4. Which one has the lower attrition rate?
5. I heard a lot about Ross giving their students a hard time when it comes to those borderline of pass/fail...is that true of St. George's (or even all Caribbean schools)?
6. If you fail 1 class, do you have to repeat the whole semester again (and pay for it again)?
7. Which one has less difficulty when applying to clinical rotations for 3rd and 4th year? --- I understand this answer may vary depending on each person, but I heard Ross gives their students a very hard time, especially b/c they will not help you out with this process...apparently?

I just started searching up about these schools, so please lead me the right way! Those that went to these schools or are currently enrolled, please enlighten me.
Thanks to everyone who gives input!

 

[ThoracicGuy]

These links are rather telling:

https://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/gainful-employment.htm

http://www.aucmed.edu/Gainful-Employment.htm

If you note on the last question under 'Success':

What are my chances of getting a job when I graduate?

The answer given is:

The job placement rate for students who completed this program is *%.

Now you may wonder, what is *%? Well they have that below in the small print:

* This institution is not currently required to calculate a job placement rate for program completers.

Why would they ever want to keep that number hidden?

 

[the argus]

There's >1600 people that graduated from these 2 schools in the past year alone that are too busy to have blogs because they are interns in fully accredited ACGME residency programs.

 

[22031 Alum]

There's >1600 people that graduated from these 2 schools in the past year alone that are too busy to have blogs because they are interns in fully accredited ACGME residency programs.

1) in their actual top choice specialty, or one they had to settle for because their options were limited?

2) in an intern year that will lead to complete specialty training/board certification, or dead-end prelims?

I don't expect you to have these numbers offhand, but these are important considerations. You can't just say "this number gets to be interns" as if simply becoming an intern is the goal.

I can tell you're proud of your education, and it must suck to have it constantly maligned. But while it may not be as completely dead-end a path as some people point out, it's also not as rosy a path as you try to make it look.

 

[the argus]

1) in their actual top choice specialty, or one they had to settle for because their options were limited?

2) in an intern year that will lead to complete specialty training/board certification, or dead-end prelims?

I don't expect you to have these numbers offhand, but these are important considerations. You can't just say "this number gets to be interns" as if simply becoming an intern is the goal.

I can tell you're proud of your education, and it must suck to have it constantly maligned. But while it may not be as completely dead-end a path as some people point out, it's also not as rosy a path as you try to make it look.

Please go back and look at my posting history, I have never tried to make this path look "rosy". I'm not particularly proud of my education, I consistently say that people should go through multiple cycles of MD/DO admissions before even considering the Caribbean.

All I try to do is present an accurate picture of Caribbean medical school, not the sensationalism so prevelant on this forum put forth by people that really have no idea what they are talking about. I rely on numbers, not nonsense opinion.

and to your other points,
1. As I've said before, if your metric is access to any specialty you want, then you should also be telling people not to go to DO schools. The number of AOA positions in competitive positions is exceedingly small (~200) compared to total yearly DO matriculants(>5000), and DOs perform very similar to US-IMGs in the NRMP. The vast majority of DO students are limited to the same primary care specialties as Caribbean grads, so by your logic people shouldn't go DO either.
2. The vast majority of matches from Ross/SGU are categorical. According to their match lists, it's probably ~5% that are prelim only.

 

[22031 Alum]

Please go back and look at my posting history, I have never tried to make this path look "rosy". I'm not particularly proud of my education, I consistently say that people should go through multiple cycles of MD/DO admissions before even considering the Caribbean.

All I try to do is present an accurate picture of Caribbean medical school, not the sensationalism so prevelant on this forum put forth by people that really have no idea what they are talking about. I rely on numbers, not nonsense opinion.

and to your other points,
1. As I've said before, if your metric is access to any specialty you want, then you should also be telling people not to go to DO schools.

Fair enough. I'm not really one for searching through histories, I just note trends in the posts I read.

For what it's worth, I do recommend US MD over DO to anyone who has a choice- my spiel about not closing doors because you don't know what field will interest you. But I think it's a bit disingenuous to say you are all about numbers while studiously ignoring some numbers- like attrition rates (which I rushed and neglected to mention in my last post- I didn't mean to move the goalposts on you).

Even if 99.99999% of Carib grads end up with an eventual placement (ignoring specialty choice and counting prelims), is it fair to anyone here to ignore the number of matriculants who never get to be grads? Is it fair to posters whose issues with DO/MD acceptance make it statistically likely that they will be in the "attrition" group- do you think you are helping them make the most informed decision at a key point in their lives?

 

[the argus]

Fair enough. I'm not really one for searching through histories, I just note trends in the posts I read.

For what it's worth, I do recommend US MD over DO to anyone who has a choice- my spiel about not closing doors because you don't know what field will interest you. But I think it's a bit disingenuous to say you are all about numbers while studiously ignoring some numbers- like attrition rates (which I rushed and neglected to mention in my last post- I didn't mean to move the goalposts on you).

Even if 99.99999% of Carib grads end up with an eventual placement (ignoring specialty choice and counting prelims), is it fair to anyone here to ignore the number of matriculants who never get to be grads? Is it fair to posters whose issues with DO/MD acceptance make it statistically likely that they will be in the "attrition" group- do you think you are helping them make the most informed decision at a key point in their lives?

That's fine if you don't want to search through histories, but you should probably not make accusations then. Could you at least read through this thread maybe? I have never glossed over attrition numbers, and have discussed them multiple times in this thread alone.

To the OP, there's really no difference between the two except for daily life on the island. Both have similar first time USMLE pass rates. Most professors at both schools are fluid. Attrition rate is significant at both. If you fail a class at either you should seriously consider cutting your losses as it will make it much more difficult to match. Ross helps students schedule electives, and in fact many of my electives were alongside SGU students. They have the same match profiles. The islands are different, that's pretty much it.

Not sure where you are getting your numbers (pretty sure you are sitting on it). Ross' attrition rate is not even close to 40-50%. It was 20-25% for my year.

This is the problem. I'm the only one is this discussion that's actually trying to help this person make an informed decision. Everyone else is just spouting hysterical nonsense.