Ross U now has a White student association. oh, yea! shocking, huh.

[youngman]

Inviting all to attend the 1st White Student Association's information meeting and membership drive this Friday at noon in classroom 3, which is next to the multiple purpose lab. Come find out what we're about and what activities we have planned for the semester. Thank you.

WSA Executive Board

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Skip Intro]

Inviting all to attend the 1st White Student Association's information meeting and membership drive this Friday at noon in classroom 3, which is next to the multiple purpose lab. Come find out what we're about and what activities we have planned for the semester. Thank you.

WSA Executive Board

A) I hope you're joking.

B) If not, don't expect a big turn out.

-Skip

 

[youngman]

I am not joking. That is what they sent to everyone thru the school email account. from what i have heard, quite a few people attended including those non-whites.

 

[OzDDS]

I find it amusing that it's socially acceptable to have a black student association or an asian student association... but a white student association.. automatically they must be a racist group. hmm.. I know a tremendous amount of racists that are black, indian, and asian. But traditional reverse racism is ok. What a nice double standard.
What is "white" anyways.. It is the most diverse of any color grouping anyways. Scandinavians, irish, english, even eastern european.. a lot of times Jews are considered white by most people. Spain, italian.. white. I think there is a tremendous amount of variety in 'white' culture.. which should be celebrated. I hate the double standard and how people think it's inherently wrong for modern 'white' people to celebrate who they are and where they came from. Most people these days are mixed anyways and have many different groups they can identify with. I am very mixed myself.

 

[AndrewB]

I find it amusing that it's socially acceptable to have a black student association or an asian student association... but a white student association.. automatically they must be a racist group. hmm.. I know a tremendous amount of racists that are black, indian, and asian. But traditional reverse racism is ok. What a nice double standard.
What is "white" anyways.. It is the most diverse of any color grouping anyways. Scandinavians, irish, english, even eastern european.. a lot of times Jews are considered white by most people. Spain, italian.. white. I think there is a tremendous amount of variety in 'white' culture.. which should be celebrated. I hate the double standard and how people think it's inherently wrong for modern 'white' people to celebrate who they are and where they came from. Most people these days are mixed anyways and have many different groups they can identify with. I am very mixed myself.

Couldn't have said it better myself. There really is an unnecessary stigma associated with things like this.

 

[thirdangel]

As a non-white person, I say good for them!!!

I just hope there is a good diversity program in place as well... (for all groups)

 

[tiredofwaiting]

As a non-white person, I say good for them!!!

I just hope there is a good diversity program in place as well... (for all groups)

I agree. There is nothing wrong with a white students association. Best of luck!

 

[youngman]

so who is their faculty advisor? is s/he a white/black/indian/latino?

 

[erichaj]

I think a white student association is just fine.

There is an indian, asian etc. So why not white.


If ANY of these associations promote hate, then they should be banned.

Hatred comes from insecurity.

EH.

 

[NYCDesi]

I think a white student association is just fine.

There is an indian, asian etc. So why not white.


If ANY of these associations promote hate, then they should be banned.

Hatred comes from insecurity.

EH.

Actually, its anger that leads to hate.....which eventually leads to the dark side....

Ok, that was cheesy, but eric's got a point. If it isn't a group that hates or discriminates, but rather promotes diversity, it's fine by me.

 

[busupshot83]

Actually, its anger that leads to hate.....which eventually leads to the dark side....

Ok, that was cheesy, but eric's got a point. If it isn't a group that hates or discriminates, but rather promotes diversity, it's fine by me.

that was awesome

 

[MD Rapper]

It will be interesting to see how this club progresses over the years... there is so much potential for this to be either an excellent idea or downright discriminatory. Anyway, I realize good intentions are there at the moment.

 

[OzDDS]

Any club created to promote an ethnicity.. be it black, white, asian, indian.. has the potential to be discriminatory. I just think it's wrong for everyone to automatically have this idea it's wrong for "white's" but "OK" for everyone else. You can claim Black pride, Asian Pride, but mention White Pride.. and everyone thinks your a memeber of the KKK. You can't say that it's OK for everyone "but" white people to claim pride in their ethnic backgrounds... That in itself is a discriminatory statement. If you think that then your racist.

As I said before, what is "white"? .. "White" is the most diverse ethnic group there is. "White people" come from all over the world, and have a tremendous amount of cultural diversity. Also, there are plenty of other ethnic groups that have clubs of their own and are tremendously racist and discriminatory. Yet the focus is never on them.. it's on whites. The Irish along with the Blacks, Chinese, and American Indians where the slave labor of the late 1800s and together built America's railways. This is not the early 20th century, were in the 21st century. Everyone seems to treat modern day young white americans as though they were slave owners or Klansmen, and it's not right.

I think we should just do away with all of these clubs anyways and forget about it. Why not just have everyone be a memeber of the general student association. All this crap just divides us. I'm mixed and not a part of any ethnic club. ha I don't fit in anywhere anyways... as I think most of america is becoming more like me. which is a good thing.

 

[youngman]

Doctors have to deal with different people of all diff. backgrounds.

It is really shallow for those who join their ethnic clubs. I find that it is particularly ridiculous for some students to wear t-shirts printed with their "national" flags

Most of them only have the US/Canadian passports. And they don't really think/act as those people in those countries any more. And why wear those flags in Dominica? The local Dominica people don't really know the difference; they only know that americans/canadians are studying medicine in their country. I was surprised one time, when a local called me as the ?American? from Ross. Then another time, a local asked me where I came from. He was not satisfied that I told him that I am from the US. By wearing those diff. national flags, those students are trying to 'educate" the locals that they are not "americans/canadians."

And those students are also the ones that complain that back in north America, white people still tell them that they speak very good English, still ask them what their "nationality" are, still call them racist names, etc. they want to call themselves "americans/canadians," but they don't want to blend in with the main culture, they continue to join their own "country" groups. The Asians can?t even form one single club here at ross. We have had Chinese, Korean, vietnamese, philipino, Indian. The Chinese is long gone. They want to tell the rest of the americans/canadians that they are just not one of them. People certainly just laugh at those Asians who can?t even unify even in such a closet school.

Particular those Vietnamese students. They don't even print out the current viet nam flag on the t-shirt, they are still using the pre-liberation flag.

1. Most of them don't even have the vietnam passports.
2. Today?s vietnam has a new flag.
3. If they are so "vietnamese," how come they want to live in North America?
4. Do they really think that they are more similar to the native Vietnamese people or the people in North America?
5. how many of them actually lived during that time? Can they really remember anything? They are not those old men who cling to the past who can?t forget.

I am sure that one of the reason that wsa started is because those whites get tired of people with american/canadian passports who continue to deny their real nationalities. If you are in my country, why don?t you love my country?

 

[MD Rapper]

Doctors have to deal with different people of all diff. backgrounds.

It is really shallow for those who join their ethnic clubs. I find that it is particularly ridiculous for some students to wear t-shirts printed with their "national" flags

Most of them only have the US/Canadian passports. And they don't really think/act as those people in those countries any more. And why wear those flags in Dominica? The local Dominica people don't really know the difference; they only know that americans/canadians are studying medicine in their country. I was surprised one time, when a local called me as the ?American? from Ross. Then another time, a local asked me where I came from. He was not satisfied that I told him that I am from the US. By wearing those diff. national flags, those students are trying to 'educate" the locals that they are not "americans/canadians."

And those students are also the ones that complain that back in north America, white people still tell them that they speak very good English, still ask them what their "nationality" are, still call them racist names, etc. they want to call themselves "americans/canadians," but they don't want to blend in with the main culture, they continue to join their own "country" groups. The Asians can?t even form one single club here at ross. We have had Chinese, Korean, vietnamese, philipino, Indian. The Chinese is long gone. They want to tell the rest of the americans/canadians that they are just not one of them. People certainly just laugh at those Asians who can?t even unify even in such a closet school.

Particular those Vietnamese students. They don't even print out the current viet nam flag on the t-shirt, they are still using the pre-liberation flag.

1. Most of them don't even have the vietnam passports.
2. Today?s vietnam has a new flag.
3. If they are so "vietnamese," how come they want to live in North America?
4. Do they really think that they are more similar to the native Vietnamese people or the people in North America?
5. how many of them actually lived during that time? Can they really remember anything? They are not those old men who cling to the past who can?t forget.

I am sure that one of the reason that wsa started is because those whites get tired of people with american/canadian passports who continue to deny their real nationalities. If you are in my country, why don?t you love my country?

I feel like you wrote this post to get a response....

This is the type of mentality that is plaguing OUR country. The United States was founded on ideals of freedom, liberty, and the ability to express one's ideas without judgement or action as long as the they aren't particularily hurtful to anyone. The same goes for Canada... even though I feel that there is less hostility to this sort of issue floating around over there. Our society is multicultural... we are ALL proud to be Americans... and if you haven't heard, part of that means that minorities shouldn't have to reject all of their heritage in order to be American... it is okay to be both.. don't worry, having some non-American traditons isn't a security threat to the United States!

So what if people want to affiliate with people of the same background... how does that affect you? What makes you so angry about this? What is it to you if Asian's "can't unify"... maybe you should understand that all Asians aren't the same... Think about it from the other way around... what if we were living in China and they thought it was lame that there is a separate North American and South American club. Under your same reasoning, there should really be only one American club (for all those from the same region). Is that fair? Probably not... there is a huge difference between the average north american and average south american...

The same thing goes for Asians... for instance, Indians and Vietnamese people are from two entirely different backgrounds.

Also, why does it matter that everyone doesn't represent America in Dominica... there are other countries in the world too.

In my opinion, this post is downright racist. So what if minorities are doing things that aren't consistent with their country's past... so what if they do hold US passports... these things don't even matter... we have already been somewhat stripped of our roots by growing up in the United States... we want to know what it means to be a part of our past, even if we are misdirected in our effort... the attempt on our parts helps us create a identity that we are comfortable with.

A lot of minorities are looking for culture to hold on to... and I hope that the students of the WSA are trying to do the same. You can't force complete assimilation on an ethnic group just because they were brought up in the US... and you can't tell them what to do or what to believe.... we join clubs for comfort... and to TRY to be in touch with our roots.. unfortunately we don't get exposed to too much of that living in a country which barely teaches us about our own ancestry. What if you were in Sudan for example and they told you to stop doing anything that relates to being American?... Under your reasoning, you should be representing Sudanese customs, traditions, values, and beliefs wholeheartedly.

Oh.. and trust me.. we do try to blend in with the main culture.. maybe if discrimination and prejudice actually ended in the United States we would stop complaining. There is a reason as to why minorities act the way they act... we aren't sub-human idiots.

In my own opinion I don't ever feel that I'll be equal to any White person regardless of what I do. Even if I were to fully assimilate, I'm bound to get discriminated against because of the color of my skin... thats the bottom line. I can either assimilate and be penalized for who I am...or assert my identity by unifying with others like me and try to educate the world. I choose the latter...

 

[thirdangel]

I remember being at a "diversity" dinner of the ethnic clubs at my school. The groups mingled for the first 15 minutes and then when it came time to eat, the groups separated again... So much for celebrating diversity, or maybe the diversity was having people of asian/latino/african descent eat food of asian/latino/african descent...

I personally would like to see a "student" club rather than an ethnic student club, but whatever makes them happy...

 

[Peeshee]

I think the purpose of ethnic groups, such as the black student association or asian student association, is bec. those groups are minorities. It doesnt make a lot of sense to have a white student association, when whites are really the majority. And,plus, when they say "whites"- I assume they mean Caucasians.
There are also groups, separated by religion, like Christian student assoc., Baptist student assoc., Muslim student assoc, etc.

 

[youngman]

md rapper, don't say " we are ALL proud to be Americans... " when you don't act like it.

asian heritage can also be a part of american heritage. you should not think that "non-american" traditions are those that are not white traditions.

i am not angry about those idiots who claim to have their traditions. because when it comes to make a choice, we all know that they don't want to live at other countries, they just want to live in the usa.

not all asians are the same, and not all whites are the same. at ross, whites can unify into one club, and latinos did that, africans also formed a single club. don't know what is up with those stuck-up asians who think that they are just different from the rest.

it is perfectly ok for whites to have a club in dominica. because whites are not really the majorities on campus. most people say that indians are the largest student population.

i find that it is funny for u talk about this with me,because you don't even attend any caribbean schools.

those "minorities" are not minorities here in dominica. we have probably more asians than whites.

"we have already been somewhat stripped of our roots by growing up in the United States..."

you are having the vitimized thoughts. no one stripped your root, your parents came to the usa willingly. and you chose to stay in the usa, and you can go back to the native country any time u want. however, we know, plenty of asians are like you would rather live in the usa.

"A lot of minorities are looking for culture to hold on to."

what for. because you can never be a 100% native. after all, how often do you watch those movies from the native country, do you prefer burgers, fries or those food from the native country? the things that you like about your "culture" are all superficial. it only creats friction and more misunderstanding.

" You can't force complete assimilation on an ethnic group just because they were brought up in the US..."

wrong again. because if one grows up in the US, no matter how s/he wants, his/her mind is really americanized. s/he likes fries, burgers, hollywood movies, all those american stuff.

" we join clubs for comfort... and to TRY to be in touch with our roots.."

not really. we are all in med. schools now. how many of the asians actually speak another language other than spanish? do you communicate with each other by english or your "native' language. it is COOL to speak english even to your own parents in public, etc.

" unfortunately we don't get exposed to too much of that living in a country which barely teaches us about our own ancestry. "

like i said before, white culture is not necessary the main culture. your culture can be a part of american culture if u open up more. however, many of you just like to stick up with your own kinds, do you own things. so your culture never get spread. asians have their own clubs, so not even other asians know what the other asians are doing. you are all basically, "separated but equal." and that is what those white racists asked for not so long ago.

you go to sudan for a visit, but u live in the US as a citizen. that is entirely different.

"Oh.. and trust me.. we do try to blend in with the main culture.. maybe if discrimination and prejudice actually ended in the United States we would stop complaining. "

stop complaining, because you creat the problem. you people have the names written all over the place. dominicans didn't know that there are vietnamese, korean, etc. at first, you are all just americans. and white people can't tell who is chinese, who is korean, vietnamese, to them, you are all chinese. in colleges, there are plenty chinese, vietnamese, korean student associations. so you are all telling the country that you just don't want to be a part of american. you just want to be different.

"There is a reason as to why minorities act the way they act... we aren't sub-human idiots."

when they call you names such as "chi..", you get pissed. when they ask you for your nationality, you felt angry. when they tell u that you speak very good english, you got upset. why. because you asked for it.

"In my own opinion I don't ever feel that I'll be equal to any White person regardless of what I do."

i think that you need counseling. no one said that whites are superior. however, by joining those clubs, you are sending a message to the whole society that you don't want to blend in, you don't want the society consider you an american. of course, people won't treat equally, because you are just a foreigner.

" Even if I were to fully assimilate, I'm bound to get discriminated against because of the color of my skin... thats the bottom line. "

even if you live in the "native" country of yours, you will still be discriminated upon your social class, your income, your appearance. whites get discriminated all the time. simply because you will get different treatment, that should not force u to be more stuck-up, refuse to be an american.

"or assert my identity by unifying with others like me and try to educate the world. I choose the latter"

no, by joining those ethnic clubs, you are not "unifying" you are separating. and you are educating the world that u r not an american because of your skin color.

 

[Hornet871]

Well, as a white guy, and as a guy who never attended a Caribbean med school, I have to say that Youngman comes across as a racist. Let's go over his arguments point by point.

1. The idea of a WSA.

There is nothing inherently racist about this. Just as students of other cultures identify with their heritage, white students have the same right.

2. "Those stuck up Asians who think they are different from the rest."

The reason all Latinos, for example, unify into one group while all Asians don't is because Asia is far more diverse than Latin America. Latin Americans all (with the exception of Brasil) speak Spanish and tend to be Catholic. Indians and Vietnamese people, for example, speak totally different, unrelated languages and have totally different religious traditions. You would have a very difficult time convincing me, Youngman, that a Vietnamese Buddhist and an Indian Muslim have the same cultural background.

Now, then, white people are also from diverse groups; the German and the Irish are very different peoples, but, as Youngman proudly points out, they all unify under the banner of the WSA. That's only because white Americans tend to be of mixed German, Irish, and other European heritages, and because white Americans have almost no connection whatsoever with their ethnic origins. How many German-Americans have you met who have even been to Germany or speak German? As opposed to, say, how many Indian-Americans have you met who speak Hindi (or whatever local Indian language they might speak) and who have been to India?

3. "You can never be a 100% native, [so why hold on to any of your culture]?"

This "argument" merits no real reply. It is illogical and silly. I can never be a world-champion surfer, either, but I still enjoy surfing in my spare time.

4. "How often do you watch those movies from the native country? Do you prefer burgers, fries or those food [sic] from the native country?"

As for my Indian and Pakistani friends, goddamn, all they ever do is watch movies from the native country. And they all, and even I, a white dude, prefer their native Indian/Pakistani food to burgers and fries. I can eat a burger once in a while, but I can eat biryani with Mughal butter chicken, or Hong Kong fish, every day of the week.

5. "The things that you like about your 'culture' are all superficial."

Sorry. Hindus, Buddhists, and Muslims who practice their religion are spiritually serious. Their religion and their philosophy are not superficial whatsoever.

6. "Many of you just like to stick up with your own kinds, do you own things, so your culture never get spread."

You might say that white people stick to their own kind. I never saw the white kids in college befriending the black ones. Was it that the black kids, or Asian kids, were "poorly assimilated", or was it that the white people excluded them? I don't know the answer, but I know it's not as simple as you make it out to be.

As far as "your culture never get spread [sic]", you are vaingloriously wrong again. There are North Americans converting to Islam and Sikhism and Buddhism by the tens of thousands per year. Whatever it is that these groups are doing, it's causing people to adopt their ways, even post-9/11, when a lot of white people have turned xenophobic.

 

[Skip Intro]

I think the purpose of ethnic groups, such as the black student association or asian student association, is bec. those groups are minorities. It doesnt make a lot of sense to have a white student association, when whites are really the majority. And,plus, when they say "whites"- I assume they mean Caucasians.
There are also groups, separated by religion, like Christian student assoc., Baptist student assoc., Muslim student assoc, etc.

Well, "white" students at Ross are actually the minority. (There are far more Asians, eastern and western, than Caucausians.)

That said, I find the concept of a white student association at Ross appalling. Then again, most "minority group" associations are unnecessary. But, there's no real power in any of these groups, at least at Ross. So, they just become a "feel good" way for people to get together and share notes, etc. I think all white students should joing the BSA, MSA, etc. and any other ethnic group should join the WSA. That would kind of defeat the whole purpose, no?

-Skip

 

[youngman]

here is my reply to Hornet871.

1. I never said that wsa is a racist club.
in fact, i think that it is perfectly normal, since white students are not the majority any more.

2. everyone is different, even if you are from the same country.

yes, yes, people speak different languages. but here at ross, everyone can fully understand and communicate via english. and even those students who join their clubs, most of the time, they talk to each other in english. we are not talking about bunch of new immigrants who just came to the USA.

and i am not talking about different religious groups here on campus. that is another big topic. we have just way too many reglious groups on campus. how can they be doctors if they still believe in super-nature. god hasn't showed up for the last 2004 years. it was a lie at the beginning, and it will still be a lie after you are dead yourself.

yes, many whites no longer have connections with their european ties. nevertheless, there are plenty US-born asians who just think that that they are "different." in reality, they have already been sort of brainwashed americanized.

3. anyone can enjoy another different culture. however, what those asians are doing are just pretending to like their "own" culture.

yes, you may have met plenty asian people who like to watch movies from the natives. however, those are probably the new immigrants.
they may say that i like my "native" food, when the native people may actually put more salt, spice in their food. especially for those who were born in the US, we all know that they are far more different than those people from their "native" countries. they are just pretending to like their native "culture."

5. religions and cultures can be different.

to those religious believers, no, their stuff are not superficial. all religions are supernature, because one has to be brainwashed in order to believe those things. everyone across the wind will believe that wind exists, but if you don't brainwash them, they won't know the existence of the many gods that in many religions.

6. "Many of you just like to stick up with your own kinds, do you own things, so your culture never get spread."

yes, i stand firmly behind my believe. why is there a st' patrick's day, why many non-irish whites wear green on that day? why people in the west believe that dragon is an evil animal when asians believe that dragons are good.

" I never saw the white kids in college befriending the black ones. "
little kids don't become friends with others based on their skin colors. it is the society, media that reinforce the many racist ideas. then blacks, asians also have stereotyped ideas towards other ethnic groups. what is the reason, one reason is that they never get the opportunity to understand other groups.

that is exactly my point about all those ethnic clubs at Ross. it maybe ok to join those clubs when they were in their undergrad colleges. now they are in a med. school, and throughtout their life, they will meet different kinds of people. by joining those separate clubs based on skin colors, those people will cotinue to hide in their closet, they show to the rest of the student body that they don't want to mingle with others. they are also educating local dominica people that americans are really just white people, because the non-whites would rather be called based on their native origins.

"As far as "your culture never get spread [sic]", you are vaingloriously wrong again."

once again, you are confusing cultures with religions. there are many koreans in korea that are christians. and frankly, i find it is ridicuously for those who are not white to believe in a dead white jewish guy. and particularly, when the bible only talks about people who are white, and all those names are obviously european based.

"even post-9/11, when a lot of white people have turned xenophobic"

that is exactly my point. the majority of the americans which are whites, they are becoming more xenophobic. by creating more ethnic based clubs, groups whether on campus or in the US, those non-whites are only creating more tension than harmony.

for the WSA, welcome to campus. i think that their club is a clear wakeup for those who like their own "cultures."

 

[hospPA]

and i am not talking about different religious groups here on campus. that is another big topic. we have just way too many reglious groups on campus. how can they be doctors if they still believe in super-nature. god hasn't showed up for the last 2004 years. it was a lie at the beginning, and it will still be a lie after you are dead yourself.

Dude, you seem angry. What the hell are you talking about, too many religious groups? So, being an atheist is the one "true" religion to you? OK, to hell with anyone elses beliefs, right? You need help dude! Or I guess you could find a country made up of people who believe exactly what you do and have no tollerance of other views. There are many countries like this around (but generally with other views than yours), just not the U.S.A.
Pat

 

[Skip Intro]

Dude, you seem angry. What the hell are you talking about, too many religious groups? So, being an atheist is the one "true" religion to you? OK, to hell with anyone elses beliefs, right? You need help dude! Or I guess you could find a country made up of people who believe exactly what you do and have no tollerance of other views. There are many countries like this around (but generally with other views than yours), just not the U.S.A.
Pat

Okay, you two need to take this to the "Everyone" forum. This is not the place for personal attacks.

-Skip

 

[moo]

Most people gravitate to their own culture because they're most like them! it's got nothing to do with skin color or being racist. I know many asians who gravitate toward other asians because they don't like to go to bars, get drunk, etc., whereas most white people do. And what's so wrong with celebrating one's culture? Sure, I speak english, but I still eat Chinese food, and absolutely hate burgers and pizza. I listen to Chinese pop but I also listen to rap and r&b and don't like alternative and other "white" music. I speak my language fluently with my parents, and no I don't think it's cool to speak English to your parents in public. Big deal. This is a free country, and people can do whatever they want. And if you want a white club, by all means, have one. I don't go to Ross, but to a US school, and some white folks started a white club where they go to bars and drink themselves silly. More power to them... that's just not what I wanna do.

 

[youngman]

for hosppa, there is nothing wrong about fools wanting to believe in supernature powers. but i find that believing in gods while practicing medicine is contracdictary. if you believe gods' powers, then why do you want to be doctors. you should become priests, etc, just sit at home, and pray for miracles. doctors do practical stuffs that are based on science, but not based on false telltales.

for Moo, it is fine to listen to whatever, do whatever. but there are those non-whites who claim this pride, and that pride. they talk about "their" cultures, etc. and call themselves vietnames, korean, chinese, etc. then they get upset when whites don't call them americans.

on the other hand, there are also many non-whites who wish that they are just plain whites. we had an indian guy announced about this WSA to the whole class. and those people would rather join a white club than any of the non-white club. that is another extreme.

 

[OzDDS]

I know many asians who gravitate toward other asians because they don't like to go to bars, get drunk, etc., whereas most white people do.

Just like all the Irish and Native americans love getting drunk too. Gimmie a friggen break. First of all, I know loads of asians who relish in a drink with their classmates and who get completly sh*#Faced at the bar/club/houseparty. Let's not start getting into sterotyping and generalizations. k... thanks

 

[OzDDS]

i find that believing in gods while practicing medicine is contracdictary. if you believe gods' powers, then why do you want to be doctors. you should become priests, etc, just sit at home, and pray for miracles. doctors do practical stuffs that are based on science, but not based on false telltales.

"There is no conflict between science and religion. Science asks what the world is, and religion asks what humankind and society should become" ? Albert Einstein

http://www.newoxfordreview.org/2001/mar01/benjamindwiker.html


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0849939437/002-7562056-8367232?v=glance

 

[Lindyhopper]

As a white male, I truly believe it is just plain wrong for whites to have a private association. The argument that minorities have their own associations misses the point. Whites as a group have nearly all the money, & all the power in this world. White people as a group control the most important governments, businesses, universities, .... everything.
Chris Rock does a routine about white guys saying, "We're losing the country. .. etc." He answers by asking, "Whose winning?". It certainly isn't blacks.

 

[OzDDS]

As a white male, I truly believe it is just plain wrong for whites to have a private association. The argument that minorities have their own associations misses the point. Whites as a group have nearly all the money, & all the power in this world. White people as a group control the most important governments, businesses, universities, .... everything.
Chris Rock does a routine about white guys saying, "We're losing the country. .. etc." He answers by asking, "Whose winning?". It certainly isn't blacks.

You say say whatever you want, but it is wrong to say that it is ok for every group to do something, but wrong for "whites". That in itself is a racist statement. sorry.

 

[kingalls]

Hi, another white male here who thinks that the idea of a WSA, while not inherently bad is certainly unnecessary and confrontational. I think it's fantastic to celebrate culture, but think the primary goal should be mind expansion and inclusion, not attention grabbing and exclusion. And one more thing,

it's got nothing to do with skin color or being racist. I know many asians who gravitate toward other asians because they don't like to go to bars, get drunk, etc., whereas most white people do.

?!?! I would like to thank MOO for contributing probably the most boneheaded statement I've yet read on these boards. That's the equivalent of 'I wouldn't mind hanging out with the Asians, I just don't like rice'. Thanks for identifying yourself as closeminded at the least, and letting me disregard anything you might write in the future. How did you get into medical school?

Some statistics on world alcohol abuse:
http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/publications/alcohol/en/
Sorry I couldn't be more specific, I just couldn't find 'White'.

 

[OzDDS]

Hi, another white male here who thinks that the idea of a WSA, while not inherently bad is certainly unnecessary and confrontational. I think it's fantastic to celebrate culture, but think the primary goal should be mind expansion and inclusion, not attention grabbing and exclusion.

But by saying that it's ok to have (Irish, French, Italian, Jewish, Polish, Russian, Spanish, Norweign) student clubs.. but not ok to have a "white" club. THat is the same as saying you can have a Vietnamese, Japanese, Chinese clubs... but you can't have an "Asian" club.

Doesn't work... If your going to implement something, it has to be fair to all parties included. just my .02

 

[Lindyhopper]

You say say whatever you want, but it is wrong to say that it is ok for every group to do something, but wrong for "whites". That in itself is a racist statement. sorry.

Questions of the human condition, & the morality of associations are not questions of mere logic. There are the competing and overwhelming issues of such as the history of slavery and the current distribution of wealth, weapons, & power.
That being said I would not want my (US) government limiting people's right of association. Nor do I think some kids at Ross being provacative spells the end of civilization.
But I think it is morally wrong.
Peace, Love, & Lindy Hop

 

[kingalls]

But by saying that it's ok to have (Irish, French, Italian, Jewish, Polish, Russian, Spanish, Norweign) student clubs.. but not ok to have a "white" club. THat is the same as saying you can have a Vietnamese, Japanese, Chinese clubs... but you can't have an "Asian" club.

Doesn't work... If your going to implement something, it has to be fair to all parties included. just my .02

Oh, I agree. White students are no less entitled to have a club than any other enthic/nationality/sexuality/sports fan/etc. related group. As for the actual 'correctness' of having a white students association, I've got no problem with that. Personally as a white man I'm curious which aspects of 'white' culture they have decided to celebrate. But if they, or any other group were founded merely as a 'hey look at us' statement I think that's pretty weak.

 

[OzDDS]

I'm curious which aspects of 'white' culture they have decided to celebrate.

I agree with you, but also think it's wrong to automatically assume it's wrong to be proud of who you are.. just because you once may have had an ancestor who did some things your not proud of. How would that be any different than Japanese not being proud of who they are because of some of the things their ansestors did to the Chinese.. etc etc

 

[OzDDS]

You can't hold that against all of today's soceity. When they don't hold those those same opinions.

 

[kingalls]

I agree with you, but also think it's wrong to automatically assume it's wrong to be proud of who you are.. just because you once may have had an ancestor who did some things your not proud of. How would that be any different than Japanese not being proud of some of the things their ansestors did to the Chinese.. etc etc

Very true. I probably shouldn't be so skeptical, having never personally met the people or heard their motives. If their intentions are good, more power to them.

 

[Guga-mama]

What I don't understand is why there needs to be a club for any race. Like many posters have already said, Asians hang out with other Asians, Black people will most likely gravitate to other black people, and white people will hang out with other white people. There is a huge probability that a black student is closest friend with another black person. (and same for other race) I don't see why there needs to be a club, to validate what we already know.

I don't necessary think a white student association is politically correct. Even if the White students at Ross are in the minority in terms of quantity.

I wonder how a member of this group will explain it to residency comittees when they put that that were on a "White Student Association" on their residency applications.

 

[rocker]

I've never heard of a school that has a White Students Association club. Quite shocking yes! Probably not good from a publicity standpoint for the school either. Could this be the first ever case of a school having White Students Club?

 

[OzDDS]

I've never heard of a school that has a White Students Association club. Quite shocking yes! Probably not good from a publicity standpoint for the school either. Could this be the first ever case of a school having White Students Club?

I think the original poster did mention that whites are a minority group in the carribean.

 

[PKP719]

I think the original poster did mention that whites are a minority group in the carribean.

oh really ? So what is the major ethnic population over there ?

 

[rocker]

I thought the majority of students at Ross were white. Am I wrong?

 

[OzDDS]

I thought the majority of students at Ross were white. Am I wrong?

Are they? I have no idea. I do know on the island of Dominica I'd have to say yes... so called "white" is definitly the minority.

 

[no-see-um]

a lot of times Jews are considered white by most people.

That's an ignorant statement if I may say so myself. Judaism is a RELIGION, not a race. Jews are not white.

Also, might I add, that there is a difference between looking white and being white. I have a friend who is a Native American- 100% so- and may appear white to some. But he's not 'white'.


And about the club, it's a dumb idea for a club.

 

[OzDDS]

That's an ignorant statement if I may say so myself. Judaism is a RELIGION, not a race. Jews are not white.

Also, might I add, that there is a difference between looking white and being white. I have a friend who is a Native American- 100% so- and may appear white to some. But he's not 'white'.


And about the club, it's a dumb idea for a club.

Actually to be a Jew could mean either. You could be religiously Jewish, or ethnically Jewish, or both. And, yes.. although some wouldn't classify them as ayrian. ha.. many do consider them "white". For example Jerry Seinfeld, Adam Sandler, Ben Stiller, Debra Messing from will and grace, Bette Midler, Lisa Loeb.. I think the general population would classify them all as both Jewish and "white".

I do agree with you concerning the looking white and being white.. Honestly how many people are full anything these days anyway. No matter what "catagory" you fall into because of the way you look. African American, Caucasian, Asian, Hispanic.. most of us are a mix of everything anyways. So what's the point.

 

[Skip Intro]

I thought the majority of students at Ross were white. Am I wrong?

You are wrong, and by a long shot. The far majority are western Asian (e.g., Indian, Pakistani, Persian, etc.).

-Skip

 

[dtn3t]

Particular those Vietnamese students. They don't even print out the current viet nam flag on the t-shirt, they are still using the pre-liberation flag.

1. Most of them don't even have the vietnam passports.
2. Today?s vietnam has a new flag.
3. If they are so "vietnamese," how come they want to live in North America?
4. Do they really think that they are more similar to the native Vietnamese people or the people in North America?
5. how many of them actually lived during that time? Can they really remember anything? They are not those old men who cling to the past who can?t forget.

I am sure that one of the reason that wsa started is because those whites get tired of people with american/canadian passports who continue to deny their real nationalities. If you are in my country, why don?t you love my country?

Although I'm Asian, I'm usually the first to make fun of all Asians. In fact, I go out of my way to avoid them, and make fun of them more than anyone I know. But reading this pissed me off. And when I'm pissed I say things that aren't always logical or appropriate, but I get my point across. But here goes anyway....

I usually don't say anything here. But this time I can't resist, and I even have to resort to name calling. To this poster, you are an idiot. You know NOTHING about those students, or their background. There is nothing wrong with you having your white club. If every other race can have a club, so should yours. Go have fun wearing your white hoods while you're having sex with your sister. Oh wait, did I cross the line there? Did I make a wrong assumption? Don't you hate when people do that?

Just because someone wears a Vietnamese shirt does not mean they don't love America, or "your country" as you put it. They love their roots, and they love America. Why do they love America? Because it's their country too. Why aren't you pissed at Italians that wear their shirts? Why did they come here if they don't love this country? The Vietnamese, and every other culture/country/race for that matter, are coming here for the exact same reasons as the Italians and other Europeans did 150-200 years ago. For religious freedom, for a fresh start, and above all, a better life.

How many of them lived at the time? Does it matter? You just can't say oh it was 30 years ago, it doesn't matter. It matters a**hole. Over 58,000 US troops died. Imagine how many Vietnamese ppl died. Every single family was affected in one way or another. When I see my parents spaced out and tears running down their face, it matters. They don't "cling to the past". The past haunts them. "Today's flag" means something to us, and it's not a good thing. But we'll talk about the flag towards the end.

Do they think that they are more similar to their culture than their country? Maybe, and that's the beauty of this country. We're allowed, everyone's allowed. But just because they feel more comfortable with the vietnamese culture, THEIR culture, does not make them bad people. As someone said, a lot don't like to go out, get drunk and consequently randomly hook up with people. They like to Vietnamese culture stuff. Don't people in WV like to hang out with other hillbillies with no teeth? Don't Metrosexuals like to hang out with metrosexuals? People congregate to groups that are more like them. It's just the way it is, that's how this country is, whether we like it or not. Should it be different, sure, but its not. And you can't fault people for it.

AND, lastly, today's Vietnam flag is the flag of communism. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE accepts it. Didn't you think there was a reason why it wasn't worn? Did you think that we thought it'd just be cooler if we wear this other flag? You wear that Communist flag around the US and you'll get your ass beat by every single Vietnamese person, not to mention all the Vietnam vets who fought in that war. For you to mention that flag and imply that it's what should be worn or displayed just makes my blood boil. You're an idiot. Stop talking.

It makes me scared knowing people like you will procreate.

If I wasn't going to an Army residency next year, I'd love to be your resident one day. I'll teach you a little more than just medicine.

I'm sure I'll get some nasty comments back. Bring it. You're entitled to what you believe.

 

[OzDDS]

dtn3t You brought up some excellent points! But I think you could have easily gotten those same points accross without the threats. THere are plenty of stupid people out there.. I know it's tempting.. but not worth lowing yourself to their level.

 

[MD Rapper]

Although I'm Asian, I'm usually the first to make fun of all Asians. In fact, I go out of my way to avoid them, and make fun of them more than anyone I know. But reading this pissed me off. And when I'm pissed I say things that aren't always logical or appropriate, but I get my point across. But here goes anyway....

I usually don't say anything here. But this time I can't resist, and I even have to resort to name calling. To this poster, you are an idiot. You know NOTHING about those students, or their background. There is nothing wrong with you having your white club. If every other race can have a club, so should yours. Go have fun wearing your white hoods while you're having sex with your sister. Oh wait, did I cross the line there? Did I make a wrong assumption? Don't you hate when people do that?

Just because someone wears a Vietnamese shirt does not mean they don't love America, or "your country" as you put it. They love their roots, and they love America. Why do they love America? Because it's their country too. Why aren't you pissed at Italians that wear their shirts? Why did they come here if they don't love this country? The Vietnamese, and every other culture/country/race for that matter, are coming here for the exact same reasons as the Italians and other Europeans did 150-200 years ago. For religious freedom, for a fresh start, and above all, a better life.

How many of them lived at the time? Does it matter? You just can't say oh it was 30 years ago, it doesn't matter. It matters a**hole. Over 58,000 US troops died. Imagine how many Vietnamese ppl died. Every single family was affected in one way or another. When I see my parents spaced out and tears running down their face, it matters. They don't "cling to the past". The past haunts them. "Today's flag" means something to us, and it's not a good thing. But we'll talk about the flag towards the end.

Do they think that they are more similar to their culture than their country? Maybe, and that's the beauty of this country. We're allowed, everyone's allowed. But just because they feel more comfortable with the vietnamese culture, THEIR culture, does not make them bad people. As someone said, a lot don't like to go out, get drunk and consequently randomly hook up with people. They like to Vietnamese culture stuff. Don't people in WV like to hang out with other hillbillies with no teeth? Don't Metrosexuals like to hang out with metrosexuals? People congregate to groups that are more like them. It's just the way it is, that's how this country is, whether we like it or not. Should it be different, sure, but its not. And you can't fault people for it.

AND, lastly, today's Vietnam flag is the flag of communism. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE accepts it. Didn't you think there was a reason why it wasn't worn? Did you think that we thought it'd just be cooler if we wear this other flag? You wear that Communist flag around the US and you'll get your ass beat by every single Vietnamese person, not to mention all the Vietnam vets who fought in that war. For you to mention that flag and imply that it's what should be worn or displayed just makes my blood boil. You're an idiot. Stop talking.

It makes me scared knowing people like you will procreate.

If I wasn't going to an Army residency next year, I'd love to be your resident one day. I'll teach you a little more than just medicine.

I'm sure I'll get some nasty comments back. Bring it. You're entitled to what you believe.

I've been waiting for a while for someone to go ahead and write this type of response...by the way... I'm the first person that responded to youngman...

dtn3t, you took my sentiments and vocalized them well. After reading many posts on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that youngman is obviously not up to par on social/ethnic/racial issues. Yes, it is sad that there are people still like this living in OUR country.

Given youngman's posting history, he has been argumentative on more than just this thread... so I wouldn't hold every ignorant statement against him...

I'll spare the thousand things I've wanted to say for the last several days and just say it like this...

youngman, stop being so hostile and angry. It is okay for people to be part of more than one culture and to represent multiple ideas and beliefs. That is the beauty of being an American.

Just like the person i'm quoting inferred, there is no such thing as (or there shouldn't be) an "American identity" because we are all essentially immigrants or descendants of immigrants here. We use freedom as a means to live in harmony with each other and to find common ground. You can't judge the actions of others because they may have grown up differently or been exposed to different environmental circumstances than you might have. I can understand that it is difficult to accept someone else's view if you have been raised in the mainstream all your life...

Realize that people of other races are just as human as you... we have motivations for how we dress, the things we eat, and what we do for entertainment. And yes, we do make mistakes and are biased sometimes just like you. Plus, if you didn't know... just cause I grew up in the US doesn't make everything here better than somewhere else. I still like Indian food better than American food. I still like Indian movies more than American ones... does that make me a bad American? NO.. I still appreciate everything this country has to offer... esp. my choice to perform other cultural activities.

I know this all sounds very elementary and trite but its the truth. Either become more accepting/willing to learn or anger yourself to the point of a heart-attack... you make the choice.

 

[youngman]

dtn3t, those viet cong haters are wearing a flag that has been banned in the native Viet Nam. and that is actually the case in most of the vietnam student associations at most colleges.

"they love roots"??? they don't know what their roots are! because for one thing, the native vietnamese people are not using that flag any more. so your vietnamese roots are long gone.

we are not talking about bunch of old people who lived in that particular period. we are talking about young people who have never lived in viet nam when that old flag was flying in the sky. and second, like the cuban exciles, most of the vietnamese who ran away are the rich people. the poor people had no choice but to stay in the same old country. while there were some of your people fighted with the americans, there were also plenty of vietnamese fought against the american invaders. and obviously, the will of the people won that war, therefore, americans were forced to evacuate even though it had much strong military power.

those vietnamese students are just confused bunch who don't know the world. they are clinging to some roots that don't exist any more. that is totally non-sense. and some of them were born in the US, what do they know about the real viet nam culture. don't tell us about your vietnamese roots, if you really want the roots, why don't you go back to viet nam , and find a local to marry? Eating the pho, or dressing in viet nam clothes, that doesn't make one a real vietnamese.

they put vietnam before USA which is totally wrong, especially in Dominica. To the local people, those vietnamese are not americans, they are just plain vietnamese, because they call them that, and they don't even wear flag of the USA t-shirts.

same thing applies to the several other asian clubs on campus. they put USA second. then they whine and complain when they get discriminated in the USA because of their skin colors, etc. partly, they are continuing the discrimination by making themselves different.

i have never said new immigrants should not allow to indulge in their own cultures, etc. what i see that is wrong is the fact that those doctors wannabes still don't know how to intergrate with each other, especially those several asian clubs. if they don't take this opportunity to mingle with students of different cultures, how do they plan to actually deal with patients who are far more diverse. asian students at ross can't even unify into one single club.

and that is also another reason, there are so many stereotypes in the USA, because people don't want to interact with each other. and don't complain to the white people that they still think that you asians are foreigners, because you asked for it.

yea, yea, the vietnam flag is not the one that you are wearing. quite frankly, the people who fought the bloody war against the americans liked it, that is why they fought endlessly till they kicked the americans out. you don't like it, because your parents were rich before the communists took over. we all know, if you don't have gold bars, you can't even get a chance to boat one of the fleeing boats. poor people get left behind whether they like viet congs or not. most americans don't know this part.

do you think that the next generations of the vietnamese americans will continue to wear that old flag that can be only found in old history books? you are all indeed clinging to a past that no one cares. by wearing a flag of the past, it only makes your more separated from the rest of the americans

in conclusion, asians at ross should wake up, and know how to interact with each other. they have US/canadian passports, they should know how to love the country that adopted them.

 

[youngman]

MD Rapper,yes, i think that it is sad that there are still people like you who like to "different."

you should learn from the white people. how often do you see white students at different colleges forming clubs of differnt european countries? sure, they are just like you, immigrants from another country. but to the white students, they are nothing, but americans. they don't feel the need to cling to the past, and they don't care the other white students' "nationality." black students don't care, either. only the asians care, and only the asian american students form clubs with asian country names in them. totally stupid, especially in med. schools.

i am not being so hostile and angry. it is perfectly ok for people have different ideas, beliefs. i only feel sorry for those asians who like to join those different nationality clubs.

sure, there is an american identity which is basically the white american identity. the rest of the world don't think that asians can be americans, everyone knows that americans = whites. why? just look at dominica, the local people already knew that vietnamese students are not real americans. those vietnamese students don't like to be called americans, because their club name doesn't have american in it. even the local dominica people know that americans are white people. the rest are not.

those asians are totally confused. they get offended if a white person doesn't think that they are americans. then they also the same people who don't call themselves americans.