Ross Interview

[HopefulDoc91]

I have an interview with Ross tomorrow at their admissions office in NJ. Has anyone interviewed there for Fall 2016 admissions? I'm nervous because I had an interview at PCOM, but then I was rejected any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

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[Aggie95]

My advice: Don't go.

 

[NoTownPreMed]

From the advice of the vets here, just bring in your checkbook.

 

[HopefulDoc91]

My advice: Don't go.

Why's that?

 

[HopefulDoc91]

From the advice of the vets here, just bring in your checkbook.

The vet school is totally separate from the medical school, and they have different admissions offices.

 

[allanMED15]

Don't do it. Take a look at any of the Caribbean threads on this forum and you will see how difficult you will make your life by going to the Caribbean. I don't know what your MCAT ended up being after reading your WAMC thread, but I seriously wouldn't consider any Caribbean school if you want to be a doctor in the US. If you have to reapply after making your application better, do that rather than taking the Caribbean route.

 

[HopefulDoc91]

Don't do it. Take a look at any of the Caribbean threads on this forum and you will see how difficult you will make your life by going to the Caribbean. I don't know what your MCAT ended up being after reading your WAMC thread, but I seriously wouldn't consider any Caribbean school if you want to be a doctor in the US. If you have to reapply after making your application better, do that rather than taking the Caribbean route.

I got a 496 MCAT and I have a 3.4 cGPA. I only applied to DO schools, besides Ross, and I would rather be a DO honestly than an MD. I got secondaries to like 15 schools, returned them all, and I have been rejected by about 6 schools so far (including PCOM after having my interview with them). I was starting to lose hope, so I applied to Ross and SGU and Ross immediately offered me an interview.

 

[Wolf3D]

The vet school is totally separate from the medical school, and they have different admissions offices.

lol poor kid. We mean "veterans," as in "veterans of SDN who know that Ross is a piece of **** and only cares about money"

 

[candbgirl]

The vet school is totally separate from the medical school, and they have different admissions offices.

I don't think he meant vet as in veterinarian. This why you shouldn't go to the Ross interview! Your GPA should be fine for DO but your MCAT is really low. Maybe study hard and retake. Try to get it up some. Or go to the interview and bring your checkbook (as others have said). But don't plan on being a doc in the US.

 

[allanMED15]

I got a 496 MCAT and I have a 3.4 cGPA. I only applied to DO schools, besides Ross, and I would rather be a DO honestly than an MD. I got secondaries to like 15 schools, returned them all, and I have been rejected by about 6 schools so far (including PCOM after having my interview with them). I was starting to lose hope, so I applied to Ross and SGU and Ross immediately offered me an interview.

Yea I would definitely retake the MCAT. The fact that you got an interview says that there was something about your application that they liked.

 

[HopefulDoc91]

So even with my cGPA of 3.4, you think if I retook the MCAT I'd have a fair shot at DO schools? My undergrad university denied me a committee letter because my major is pre-vet and they don't think I really want to go to medical school because of that...when really I just realized late in the game that I wanted to be a physician, and there was no point in changing my major because it's all the same pre-req classes. I think not having that committee letter has turned some schools away from me.

 

[allanMED15]

So even with my cGPA of 3.4, you think if I retook the MCAT I'd have a fair shot at DO schools? My undergrad university denied me a committee letter because my major is pre-vet and they don't think I really want to go to medical school because of that...when really I just realized late in the game that I wanted to be a physician, and there was no point in changing my major because it's all the same pre-req classes. I think not having that committee letter has turned some schools away from me.

I think you definitely would. Now of course my experience may be different than yours, but I have a similar gpa and I've received 2 MD II's. But I think a higher MCAT score will definitely help your situation.

 

[candbgirl]

How are your ECs? Since you were pre Vet did you do any ECs with humans? Shadow any docs? But assuming you did you should really plan to retake the MCAT and reapply!

 

[Mwooster]

I got a 496 MCAT and I have a 3.4 cGPA

I was starting to lose hope, so I applied to Ross and SGU and Ross immediately offered me an interview

Don't go, bro. Not even the above Ross approves of this move.
You are exactly the kind of candidate Caribbean Ross is looking to receive money from. Get your MCAT up to around 505 and aim for DO, or better yet 510+ and aim for MD and DO

 

[AlteredScale]

So even with my cGPA of 3.4, you think if I retook the MCAT I'd have a fair shot at DO schools? My undergrad university denied me a committee letter because my major is pre-vet and they don't think I really want to go to medical school because of that...when really I just realized late in the game that I wanted to be a physician, and there was no point in changing my major because it's all the same pre-req classes. I think not having that committee letter has turned some schools away from me.

Your MCAT is about equal to a 22 on the old score. There is evidence that suggest an MCAT score below 24 significantly increases the risk of failing out of the pre-clinical curriculum or USMLE Step 1. That's probably a big reasons why you were WL at DO schools. Yes they accept students with lower MCATs but there's a limit as most DO schools screen for MCAT below a 24. So yes, it would benefit you greatly to retake the MCAT and get well above a 24...even more so because you have to retake it.

As for the committee letter...it's not that big of a deal as you think it is. Even if the committee decided to write one, they'd probably not have much substance to it because they assumed you to be in a different group the entire way. Having a committee is NOT a deciding factor for admissions for sure.

The absolute worst thing you can do now is go to Ross. If you go to Ross you just took a million dollar chance on your career (that means you have about a 40-50 percent chance LESS than any MD/DO grad of matching into ANY residency program)

So do it right this time: Retake the MCAT, establish some good rapport with your professors and ask them to rewrite those letters and reapply. If it requires you to take some years off to build that rapport or save up for another cycle then so be it.

Also this seems more of a pre-DO question so moving it to the dark side, sorry.

 

[piii]

Listen, you may feel pressured to rush into getting your degree. You've gone through college, taken the MCAT, involved yourself in the ECs. It is a long road and it will feel good to be in "medical school", right?

Medicine is a career path full of obstacles. Taking the short cut, the easy way out, doesn't let you build the qualities to actually succeed in the field. I'm not talking about succeeding by going to medical school. I'm talking about succeeding as a person - growing and learning, being introspective, facing challenges and overcoming them. These qualities will help you be a life long learner and a truly good physician that can make the lives of your patients better.

You need to regroup and approach the MCAT a different way. Getting through that hurdle, and learning how to score better will make you a better person. If you can raise your score by bettering yourself, you will be recognized for your hard work. You will not only give yourself a chance of going to a DO or even an MD school but you will grow into character qualities that will make how you carry the rest of your life better and be more productive as a person and physician.

So don't take the easy way out, which will likely leave you in massive debt with little prospects for residency. Please take the hard road, learn about yourself and grow, and apply with a new mindset and set of skills, and a higher MCAT, to DO schools.

 

[allanMED15]

Yes. ^this.

 

[docisthegoal]

The DO route is unfortunately already an uphill battle for us to score some more competitive residencies. Going to the Caribbean will only make this harder.

 

[darkeon]

Do the Ross interview just for kicks.

Then kindly say no thanks.

 

[NoTownPreMed]

I've worked with many residents over the past, and one residents advice still stuck with my today. A patient of ours on the floor coded, so this resident along with the chief resident were there to respond for the code. The resident acted promptly, ordered the necessary tests/workups/medications to stabilize the patient prior to transferring to ICU. I was extremely amazed how the young resident handled the situation. I gotten a chance to speak with resident next day on the floor as they were making their rounds. I praised the resident of how well they handled the code and leaked about my plans of wanting to becoming a doc. The first advice I was given from the resident was to absolutely avoid the Caribbean. What I've learned from the resident, was that the person was pressured by family members into starting medical school soon after fourth year of college. Distraught that the person didn't get any in their selected choice of school (this person had the stats to get into many OOS friendly MD school outside of CA, but only applied to CA MD schools), this person decided to apply/interview/get accepted to one of the Caribbean schools per family members suggestion. This resident busted their behinds off in school, even with good USLME scores and LOR, managed to match into a different specialty and program they had ranked as their bottom spot. The moral of the story is, don't GO TO THE CARIBBEAN!!!!

 

[HopefulDoc91]

How are your ECs? Since you were pre Vet did you do any ECs with humans? Shadow any docs? But assuming you did you should really plan to retake the MCAT and reapply!

I have volunteer hours in both clinical and non-clinical settings. I did shadow a cardiologist (that's what I'm interested in). But unfortunately most of the stuff on my resume has to do with veterinary experience

 

[DO2015CA]

Spend this year volunteering for medical stuff and retake the mcat. Apply next year and get a spot at any DO school you want.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

The mcat is not only an admission standard for schools to look at, but something for you, yourself to read and understand whether you're really cut out for medical school.
And with a score like yours, you currently not cut out for medical school and you'll almost certainly encounter difficulties to graduate and or pass your boards. If you cannot bring your score up then how do you expect to pass your classes with tests that honestly crap on the mcat?

Honestly let me tell you a bit of reality as a gap yearer. There's nothing wrong with taking time off to become a better student and doing better on the mcat because it'll prepare you for medical school. You NEED to be able to learn how to deal with a large amount of information and you NEED to be able to use limited information to get answers because your tests will come down to that and boards aren't going to suddenly be easier than the mcat.

 

[costales]

To be honest, if you can't improve your MCAT after a couple of tries, you ought to try PA school. It's a great gig with much less stress and crap. Good luck.

 

[Goro]

Or podiatry.

To be honest, if you can't improve your MCAT after a couple of tries, you ought to try PA school. It's a great gig with much less stress and crap. Good luck.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Or podiatry.

I hear podiatrists have been having trouble finding residencies and jobs the past 5-10 years though no? The attrition rate for pod schools also is horrendous and honestly isnt that much lower than alot of Carrib schools.

 

[Goro]

Not familiar with the job market...that's for OP to research.

I hear podiatrists have been having trouble finding residencies and jobs the past 5-10 years though no? The attrition rate for pod schools also is horrendous and honestly isnt that much lower than alot of Carrib schools.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Not familiar with the job market...that's for OP to research.

Based off what I've seen and the attrition rate it is a route full of risks and a high chance of failure/attrition.

Dental school might be worth something looking into for the OP, although manual dexterity and ability to handle the rigorous workload they have there is also something that has to be strongly considered.

 

[allantois]

Based off what I've seen and the attrition rate it is a route full of risks and a high chance of failure/attrition.

Dental school might be worth something looking into for the OP, although manual dexterity and ability to handle the rigorous workload they have there is also something that has to be strongly considered.

Dental DAT is easier, but not that much easier than MCAT

Podiatry on the other hand may be a great career choice.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Dental DAT is easier, but not that much easier than MCAT

Podiatry on the other hand may be a great career choice.

I've taken both exams. The DAT is a fact based memorization based test, the perceptual section is largely a bag of tricks that can be learned. The MCAT is all critical thinking and analysis. There is no comparison. The limiting factor for DAT scores is often time and preparation; there often is a limit too much people want to spend learning every bio fact possible, doing hundreds of perceptual based practice problems etc. The material itself is very manageable and honestly the test questions and style are at the same level of the SAT and SAT subject tests. For the MCAT the limiting factor for scores is the very nature of the test itself. Everybody has a certain score limit they are capable of hitting, limit to how they are able to analyze and comprehend information. Past a clear point, studying serves little purpose; there is a clear ceiling. Many simply arent capable of hitting 30+.

Podiatry is a field with high attrition and where the job market can be somewhat unstable. I'd research it heavily and not just look into because of the low MCAT scores of the students in it.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Dental DAT is easier, but not that much easier than MCAT

Podiatry on the other hand may be a great career choice.

Going from a 50th percentile mcat to a competitive dat? sure. Going from a 20th percentile to a competitive dat? no.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Based off what I've seen and the attrition rate it is a route full of risks and a high chance of failure/attrition.

Dental school might be worth something looking into for the OP, although manual dexterity and ability to handle the rigorous workload they have there is also something that has to be strongly considered.

Honestly, with an average mcat of a 22 we're not talking about people who are going to be excelling at dealing with medical science and honestly most of podiatry is dealing with medical school level science.
But I imagine over 90% of people who graduate from podiatry programs will find themselves in a position of employment and residency which is significantly better than Ross.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Honestly, with an average mcat of a 22 we're not talking about people who are going to be excelling at dealing with medical science and honestly most of podiatry is dealing with medical school level science.
But I imagine over 90% of people who graduate from podiatry programs will find themselves in a position of employment and residency which is significantly better than Ross.

Well the attrition rate from what I understand at some podiatry schools can actually hover over 30%. If you want to argue podiatry school is better than Ross that's fine and I would agree but we are basically talking about 50-60% attrition vs 2o-30% attrition in a number of cases. Neither is particularly tempting.

Also if the average MCAT score for pod schools is in the 22-23 range, there are many who can handle the school work with those type of MCAT scores. Hell, honestly the vast majority of people who get into MD schools with sub 24 MCAT showings pass, graduate and go on to practice.

A 22 is low but some people simply are very poor at reading comprehension and analysis. In medicine that's a big problem. In dentistry, it's not nearly as much of an issue and that can be seen through what the DAT tests. I could easily see someone who's strengths are in excelling and not analysis and critical thinking completely bombing the MCAT and producing an acceptable type DAT score(19+)

I do agree with your general point though, the MCAT is an issue that should be addressed. And there are much better fields for those who arent great with standardized tests and who might struggle with the type of workload med school/dental school demands(such as PA perhaps).

 

[IslandStyle808]

I hear podiatrists have been having trouble finding residencies and jobs the past 5-10 years though no? The attrition rate for pod schools also is horrendous and honestly isnt that much lower than alot of Carrib schools.

Unfortunately, there are people in podiatry who should not be admitted there in the first place. This is why you have these massive fail outs, because they admit people with a pulse. It is not totally their fault, it is because their pool of applicants have such low stats to begin with. Unless you have a MCAT of 22+, you should not be attending pod school (don't care if their boards are actually easier than the USMLE or COMLEX, I would still say the same).

Now their residency placement rate seems to hover around 90%, which is still better than all caribbean schools. Yes, jobs are not abundant, but if you are not picky about where you live you will find one (as mentioned by those on the pod forum).

 

[Bruskie_77]

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Well the attrition rate from what I understand at some podiatry schools can actually hover over 30%. If you want to argue podiatry school is better than Ross that's fine and I would agree but we are basically talking about 50-60% attrition vs 2o-30% attrition in a number of cases. Neither is particularly tempting.

Also if the average MCAT score for pod schools is in the 22-23 range, there are many who can handle the school work with those type of MCAT scores. Hell, honestly the vast majority of people who get into MD schools with sub 24 MCAT showings pass, graduate and go on to practice.

A 22 is low but some people simply are very poor at reading comprehension and analysis. In medicine that's a big problem. In dentistry, it's not nearly as much of an issue and that can be seen through what the DAT tests. I could easily see someone who's strengths are in excelling and not analysis and critical thinking completely bombing the MCAT and producing an acceptable type DAT score(19+)

I do agree with your general point though, the MCAT is an issue that should be addressed. And there are much better fields for those who arent great with standardized tests and who might struggle with the type of workload med school/dental school demands(such as PA perhaps).

20% is high and a gamble, but one that isn't exactly awful and is comparable to some of the lower tier DO schools. 50-60% is Russian roulette and honestly low as Ross's 6 year is under 40%.

 

[GrapesofRath]

20% is high and a gamble, but one that isn't exactly awful and is comparable to some of the lower tier DO schools. 50-60% is Russian roulette and honestly low as Ross's 6 year is under 40%.

Outside of NYCOM and LUCOM(which is its own separate bag of worms) I don't know any DO school with an attrition rate at or over 10%. 2-5% seems to be around the norm no?

And good lord Ross's 6 year has dropped to under 40%? Jesus.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Unfortunately, there are people in podiatry who should not be admitted there in the first place. This is why you have these massive fail outs, because they admit people with a pulse. It is not totally their fault, it is because their pool of applicants have such low stats to begin with. Unless you have a MCAT of 22+, you should not be attending pod school (don't care if their boards are actually easier than the USMLE or COMLEX, I would still say the same).

Now their residency placement rate seems to hover around 90%, which is still better than all caribbean schools. Yes, jobs are not abundant, but if you are not picky about where you live you will find one (as mentioned by those on the pod forum).

You probably can find a job as a podiatrist even in a saturated city but with a reduced salary, same thing with FM.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Outside of NYCOM and LUCOM(which is its own separate bag of worms) I don't know any DO school with an attrition rate at or over 10%. 2-5% seems to be around the norm no?

And good lord Ross's 6 year has dropped to under 40%? Jesus.

NYCOM seems to have reduced. LUCOM, WCU, LMU have 15-25% drop out rates. LMU is improving but when it opened its first two classes had relatively high drop out rates.
Generally most DO school drop out rates are improving as more higher quality applicants start applying as SDN has basically opened the pre md gate to osteopathic medicine.

Overall Carib is an unreasonable investment now. The merger was a death blow to the field over the next decade.

 

[GrapesofRath]

NYCOM seems to have reduced. LUCOM, WCU, LMU have 15-25% drop out rates. LMU is improving but when it opened its first two classes had relatively high drop out rates.
Generally most DO school drop out rates are improving as more higher quality applicants start applying as SDN has basically opened the pre md gate to osteopathic medicine.

Overall Carib is an unreasonable investment now. The merger was a death blow to the field over the next decade.

http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/2013-com-attrition.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Here is some official data from the past decade. They calculate overall attrition kind of weird(the total attrition rates are deflated) but by and large I only see 2-3 schools with attrition rates that would hover close to 10%.

Kind of surprised to hear that about LMU. I had heard alot of good things about that programs first few graduating classes.

Keep in mind these include leave of absences(which I think are half of the attrition). So alot of these people probably come back and then end up graduating.

 

[Wolf3D]

Why is this thread productive now? Can we get back to bashing on Carib now?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/2013-com-attrition.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Here is some official data from the past decade. They calculate overall attrition kind of weird(the total attrition rates are deflated) but by and large I only see 2-3 schools with attrition rates that would hover close to 10%.

Kind of surprised to hear that about LMU. I had heard alot of good things about that programs first few graduating classes.

Keep in mind these include leave of absences(which I think are half of the attrition). So alot of these people probably come back and then end up graduating.

I saw at least a few schools with 20%s in 2011-2013.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Why is this thread productive now? Can we get back to bashing on Carib now?

I've honestly used up all my good one liners and puns I had for them by now. Carrib threads are daily things now, getting so old.

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

I feel really bad for carib students..like lambs to the slaughter.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I feel really bad for carib students..like lambs to the slaughter.

The unfortunate thing is that we have many good people who would be good doctors in the Carib while we have people that aren't fit to work anything beyond a microscope in many top tier schools.

 

[allantois]

I feel really bad for carib students..like lambs to the slaughter.

I would personally like to know who in the Congress gets lobbied to keep the school accredited for student loans.

 

[Wolf3D]

I've honestly used up all my good one liners and puns I had for them by now. Carrib threads are daily things now, getting so old.

Old does not mean not good, young Padawan

 

[Goro]

School #11 sure had its problems. I suspect that it was NYCOM.

http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/2013-com-attrition.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Here is some official data from the past decade. They calculate overall attrition kind of weird(the total attrition rates are deflated) but by and large I only see 2-3 schools with attrition rates that would hover close to 10%.

Kind of surprised to hear that about LMU. I had heard alot of good things about that programs first few graduating classes.

Keep in mind these include leave of absences(which I think are half of the attrition). So alot of these people probably come back and then end up graduating.

 

[GrapesofRath]

School #11 sure had its problems. I suspect that it was NYCOM.

Don't they have some of the highest Gpa/MCAT stats of any DO school and have some of the most high profile matches of any DO school?

What were the problems? Also what was it with their insistence of if you fail more than 1 class you get kicked out?

 

[Goro]

Fromt he list hat @user3 was so kind to generate, NYITCOM is in the top 10.

NYIT: 3.6/28

Don't know what the problems were. I surmise that it might have been a new curriculum teething issue, or Admissions just had a bad year(s) and picked the wrong people.

Getting rid of 2x failers is something you see more in MD schools.

Don't they have some of the highest Gpa/MCAT stats of any DO school and have some of the most high profile matches of any DO school?

What were the problems? Also what was it with their insistence of if you fail more than 1 class you get kicked out?