MD in Ross or DO in US?

[Lokhtar]

same situation here. got into SGU and NYCOM. I don't know what to do...

Do you mind having the letters D.O. after your name? If yes, then don't do it. If not, then go D.O.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[spazzz]

Is SGU a better option in Caribbean schools than Ross? Please correct me if I am wrong but at the end doesn't it all come down to how you do at USMLE I, II, III that really determines how you do at your residency matches? I think the whole issue about us/foreign is really about what kind of scores you have. And most of you would probably agree that the students who go to Caribbean (except a few who probably went due to some special circumstances) are not exactly the cream of the crop.
Anyone agree/disagree?

I've heard people who come from SGU are amazing doc's. It's the only reputable caribbean school. IN saying that, it's because all of the caribbean schools want you to fail so you repeat years, if you graduate SGU, you're cream of the crop.

 

[Lokhtar]

I've heard people who come from SGU are amazing doc's. It's the only reputable caribbean school. IN saying that, it's because all of the caribbean schools want you to fail so you repeat years, if you graduate SGU, you're cream of the crop.

SGU has an attrition rate comparable to MD and DO schools, maybe slightly higher. Ross has a much larger attrition rate.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

As mentioned earlier, you might want to search both this forum and the Caribbean forum (go to the mail forum page and scroll down) because this has been discussed a lot. Once you'll do the search, you'll see that most people at SDN would probably opt for a DO school over a Caribbean school but that the opinion is not universal.

Personally, I would pick an osteopathic school over a Caribbean school unless the only osteopathic school I was accepted to was either a brand new school or in a rural, isolated location. Nothing against the quality of either of these schools, but the big 4 Caribbean schools probably feel more organized than a new school, and I'd rather live in the Caribbean and then New York for clinicals than the middle of nowhere. But then I'd probably pick either SGU or AUC over Ross because Dominica seems pretty bleak, and Ross has a lot of unhappy students.

So yeah, which would you prefer?

 

[StriveToBeDr]

SGU is definitely better, more established than TOUROCOM. In addition, the studying environment of SGU is so much better than the former one.

 

[billydoc]

Do you mind having the letters D.O. after your name? If yes, then don't do it. If not, then go D.O.

Lokhtar, you're worrying about the stupid letters waaaay tooo much, buddy. Here's the guy who's got'em all.........


http://www.worldhealth.net/p/141.html

Many foreign MDs went through NYCOM's emigre' physisian program. It didn't bother them a bit that now they would have to be some "lowly D.O" and not such a "glamourous M.D"... lol. Get your D.O in the States, and your M.D as an "appendage" from any banana republic of your choice, to feeeeeeeel beeeeeetttttter.

Dude, get real...lol

 

[Lokhtar]

Lokhtar, you're worrying about the stupid letters waaaay tooo much, buddy. Here's the guy who's got'em all.........


http://www.worldhealth.net/p/141.html

Many foreign MDs went through NYCOM's emigre' physisian program. It didn't bother them a bit that now they would have to be some "lowly D.O" and not such a "glamourous M.D"... lol. Get your D.O in the States, and your M.D as an "appendage" from any banana republic of your choice, to feeeeeeeel beeeeeetttttter.

Dude, get real...lol

Eh? I am applying to both DO and MD schools when its my turn. Some people care though, and if they don't want to live with that, they shouldn't or they'll be unhappy forever.

 

[spazzz]

SGU is definitely better, more established than TOUROCOM. In addition, the studying environment of SGU is so much better than the former one.

are you talking about all touros here? the mare island has been around a while and while i wouldn't say the match lists are amazing, they are some very good hospitals involved. the interviewer at Touro henderson had matched ortho, so their class isn't bad at all

 

[StriveToBeDr]

it is the one at Harlem.
the location is really bad, and the regional hospital is shabby

 

[billydoc]

Eh? I am applying to both DO and MD schools when its my turn. Some people care though, and if they don't want to live with that, they shouldn't or they'll be unhappy forever.

O.K, fair enough, but my point is that many of these ppl who think they will be "unhappy forever" simply don't even know what their talking about. Sadly enough they live in some delusional World either created in their minds, or created for them by their parents, or whoever keeps perpetuating this "M.D at all cost" notion. If this ppl knew the reality this would not even have been an issue. It really is not in the real World. However, graduating with a foreign MD could indded make somebody very unhappy for the rest of their lives, especially if the bar was set too high, and the FMG/IMG reality is different. I don't know if you've even oppened the link I've provided. But please look at it again. Graduating with D.O degree does not preclude you in any shape or form from gettig an MD, esp a foreign one. There are many, many ppl, at least in NY where I am who list themselves as ....Joe Blow, D.O, M.D or "M.D, D.O". Most of these folks have been doctors (M.Ds) elsewhere long before they came to the States. But they quickly realized the value of being an American medical graduate (even though it meant being a D.O). They've watched their FMG buddies struggling in getting residencies, not getting what they wanted etc. So many of these doctors went essentially though another medical (D.O) school, and those that I know have no regrets whatsoever. Especially with the difficult times many FMGs went trough in the mid 1990s. I know some ppl who were looking for the residency spot with pretty high scores on USMLE for 6 and 7 yrs. They were not Caribbean IMGs, but still...this is for ppl who have such "hard time" to decide ....between D.O in U.S or M.D anywhere else other than in North America, that's considering you've been accepted to both, and not just "pretty sure that you could have been"....Really guys, if that's the case you ought to get a check up from the neck up. Again forget this pure "M.D vs D.O" crap. It's garbage. Think about American vs Foreign medical education, factor in the expansion of the enrollment in existing U.S med schools, and oppening new D.O and M.D programs in U.S. If you think still "I'm going to be O'K from either one. It's just a personal preferance, and M.D from any
****hole in the World after my name is a lot sexier than D.O from U.S" well...I'm sorry friend, other than being an idiot you deserve evrything that's coming to you if, and that's the BIG IF, you ever get there anyway.

P.S just to clarify: the above statement was not directed at anyone specifically.

Signing off.
Have fun

 

[spazzz]

it is the one at Harlem.
the location is really bad, and the regional hospital is shabby

location is great and the hospital they toured you in is one of the many rotation spots

 

[StriveToBeDr]

when u say location is great, you mean the area with the highest crime rate and the extremely untidy streets?

 

[Colbert]

when u say location is great, you mean the area with the highest crime rate and the extremely untidy streets?

The mission of the school was to serve an unrepresented community, so I think it's location is perfect. Besides, you're in Manhattan. It's the epicenter of the Western world.

I'm interested to know where you get your info about crime rate too. I actually did a quick search before I said anything and quickly found out that, "In the 32nd Precinct, for example, in Central Harlem, between 1993 and 2004, the murder rate dropped 68%, the rape rate dropped 70%, the robbery rate dropped 60%, burglary dropped 81%, and the total number of crime complaints dropped 62%." Wikipedia is a nice tool.

Untidy streets? It's New York City, not the Wonderful World of Oz. The sidewalk doesn't exactly sparkle.

 

[spazzz]

when u say location is great, you mean the area with the highest crime rate and the extremely untidy streets?

are you serious? I guess NYC is a shotty city compared to Grenada, I'll take my chances in NYC...what is often referred to as the greatest city in the world.....Did you get a chance to speak with the FMG in the hospital you did the tour in? His advice to us was DON'T go abroad for medical school, you'll end up with the leftover residency spots....

 

[Lokhtar]

O.K, fair enough, but my point is that many of these ppl who think they will be "unhappy forever" simply don't even know what their talking about.

Haha, well its their life and how they think of their degree. I may think I'll be unhappy with an M.D. unless its from Hopkins....its not about 'not knowing what they're talking about', its simply about knowing what you want. Not everyone wants M.D., or D.O., or whatever else.

However, graduating with a foreign MD could indded make somebody very unhappy for the rest of their lives, especially if the bar was set too high, and the FMG/IMG reality is different.

Yes, foreign MD could make someone unhappy. So could a DO. And so could a USMD. The healthcare profession is full of unhappy people. As long as you know what you are going into, you would be fine. Some Caribbean schools are quite shady, but some aren't, and SGU is a fine institution.

I don't know if you've even oppened the link I've provided. But please look at it again. Graduating with D.O degree does not preclude you in any shape or form from gettig an MD, esp a foreign one. There are many, many ppl, at least in NY where I am who list themselves as ....Joe Blow, D.O, M.D or "M.D, D.O". Most of these folks have been doctors (M.Ds) elsewhere long before they came to the States. But they quickly realized the value of being an American medical graduate (even though it meant being a D.O). They've watched their FMG buddies struggling in getting residencies, not getting what they wanted etc. So many of these doctors went essentially though another medical (D.O) school, and those that I know have no regrets whatsoever.

Again, this is irrelevant. Almost everyone from schools like SGU find a residency, and many people have no interest in the 'competitive' residencies. If you want to practice Family Medicine/Internal Medicine, and also want a MD after your name, you can be just fine going to the Caribbean. Does that mean that route is for everyone? No. I wouldn't want to go to the Caribbean. But that doesn't mean anything for someone else.

You're trying to say that because a D.O. is equivalent to a M.D. legally, it means that the differences between them are irrelevant. They are not. Some people may object to learning things such as cranial, and other aspects of OMM. Others may not like the clinical rotations of 3rd and 4th years of DO. While others simply would rather like the letters M.D. after themselves because they want to feel better. Not all of them have to be logical to be real concerns - and logic can't make someone happy. It is perfectly reasonable to come to a conclusion that a Caribbean degree would be better for you than a D.O. That doesn't mean that anyone else has to agree, or that your decision is somehow correct in all situations for all people.

I've weighed all my options, and it looks like I would rather be a USDO than a FMG, but other people can legitimately come to a different conclusions. Different strokes for different folks, as it were.

 

[MaximusD]

people go caribbean for the same variety of reasons they go DO. I know one guy who had a 35 MCAT and a 3.8 GPA with a freakin' ton of experience, nice, well spoken --- but his wife said the only way she'd move for him to go to med school was if he went to the caribbean. So that's where they went.

Another guy - 18 MCAT, 2.4 GPA. Went caribbean because that's the only place he could get in.

Honestly a 2.4 GPA is ridiculous. I've seen plenty get that sort of GPA first year and maybe second, but to graduate with that? Have to really question if they really wanted to be a doctor on that one...

Can't judge the 18 MCAT. Got a 32 on mine, but I started at a 21 before Kaplan

 

[Lokhtar]

Honestly a 2.4 GPA is ridiculous. I've seen plenty get that sort of GPA first year and maybe second, but to graduate with that? Have to really question if they really wanted to be a doctor on that one...

Can't judge the 18 MCAT. Got a 32 on mine, but I started at a 21 before Kaplan

I think TexasTriathelete graduated with lower. He'll be starting PCOM-GA next fall I think. Though his story is an exception obviously, and not the rule.

 

[Porco Rosso]

 

[Eudjinn]

my pcp is one of those "md,do" former physicians from russia and he pwns face.

 

[spazzz]

my pcp is one of those "md,do" former physicians from russia and he pwns face.

you use PCP?

 

[tdkneo]

Hey guys.. I've been accepted to a Ross and today I came to know that I"ve been accepted in a DO school too. I haven't heard from any MD schools from US as of now. I like both and I'm totally confused what to do.. PLEASE HELP. Waiting for all your views..

DO without a question.......

 

[thePathOfMed]

1

 

[medhacker]

It totally depends on what you intend to do with it. If you are interested in practicing abroad, the MD from Ross would be useful because for some reason, DOs aren't recognized in a lot of countries. However, if you plan to practice in the states, i would suggest making sure you have a solid understanding of the differences between DO and MD and making sure you are interested in the DO route, because it is probably the better option if you're practicing in the states. I've met fine physicians who went to Ross, however it's one of those things where people do look at it differently and you have to work harder to earn respect or trust from older physicians. DOs are much more accepted by other physicians, from the feeling i get working side by side with both.

This is not exactly accurate. It is not really much easier to practice abroad with an MD than with a DO. Also, there's only a few more countries where MDs are already recognized for practice that DOs are not recognized in yet.

Practicing medicine abroad, is difficult for both MDs and DOs for the simple fact of being a foreign physician.

 

[167649]

people go caribbean for the same variety of reasons they go DO. I know one guy who had a 35 MCAT and a 3.8 GPA with a freakin' ton of experience, nice, well spoken --- but his wife said the only way she'd move for him to go to med school was if he went to the caribbean. So that's where they went.

Another guy - 18 MCAT, 2.4 GPA. Went caribbean because that's the only place he could get in.

Wow. What a b****. I'd choose US medical school over her any day.

 

[Porco Rosso]

Wow. What a b****. I'd choose US medical school over her any day.

actually, we know who really wears the pants in that relationship

 

[spazzz]

This is not exactly accurate. It is not really much easier to practice abroad with an MD than with a DO. Also, there's only a few more countries where MDs are already recognized for practice that DOs are not recognized in yet.

Practicing medicine abroad, is difficult for both MDs and DOs for the simple fact of being a foreign physician.

here's the thing. if you're goal is to practice abroad, you might as well go to medical school in the country you plan on settling in. The Austraila option seems very interesting.

 

[Eudjinn]

you use PCP?

only on days that end with the letter "y"

 

[medhacker]

here's the thing. if you're goal is to practice abroad, you might as well go to medical school in the country you plan on settling in. The Austraila option seems very interesting.

Unfortunately that's not a rule accross the board. Not all medical specialties are taught (or taught as well) as they are in the U.S. if you wish to be able to practice some subspecialties abroad, sometimes you just have to study away.

There is at least one DO in Australia praciticing as a full physician that I know of.

 

[Syncope82]

hands down DO

 

[gmard33]

I've always heard "stay in the US."
But maybe those people were just patriots.

 

[justletmeinplz]

I was accepted to SGU last year and chose to stick around and give DO a shot this year. If what your after is a quality medical education, you'll get that during your residency. So the question is can you get a better residency as a Carib grad or a DO? My dad is a MD (Rad Onc) and he likes my choice to go DO. That should say a lot about how the image of DO's is changing. But, like others have said...if the letters M.D. are important to you, go south. If that's the case though, you might want to reconsider your motivation for entering the medical field. Is it to treat patients or is it for the money or prestige associated with being a physician? Just my .02.

 

[predodoc]

I was accepted to SGU last year and chose to stick around and give DO a shot this year. If what your after is a quality medical education, you'll get that during your residency. So the question is can you get a better residency as a Carib grad or a DO? My dad is a MD (Rad Onc) and he likes my choice to go DO. That should say a lot about how the image of DO's is changing. But, like others have said...if the letters M.D. are important to you, go south. If that's the case though, you might want to reconsider your motivation for entering the medical field. Is it to treat patients or is it for the money or prestige associated with being a physician? Just my .02.

8 people in my class have a Doctor parent(s). All but one are MD's.

 

[MrChance2]

Some Ross 4th years students came to my med school on rotation and I chatted with them for a bit. They said ~50% of their class is gone before 4th year. The ones that make it generally get residencies in the US. I dunno if anyone can verify this but it sounded like if you belong in medical school you'll get a US residency no matter where you go. The Caribbean schools will let you in, tell you you can be a doctor then take 50-100K from you in even if you really have no chance though. I'm not an expert here but it is the vibe I get talking with Caribbean students and doctors who went there. Why anyone would choose Caribbean over DO is beyond me though.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Some Ross 4th years students came to my med school on rotation and I chatted with them for a bit. They said ~50% of their class is gone before 4th year. The ones that make it generally get residencies in the US. I dunno if anyone can verify this but it sounded like if you belong in medical school you'll get a US residency no matter where you go. The Caribbean schools will let you in, tell you you can be a doctor then take 50-100K from you in even if you really have no chance though. I'm not an expert here but it is the vibe I get talking with Caribbean students and doctors who went there. Why anyone would choose Caribbean over DO is beyond me though.

This thread is 5 years old...

 

[stlrams22]

Some Ross 4th years students came to my med school on rotation and I chatted with them for a bit. They said ~50% of their class is gone before 4th year. The ones that make it generally get residencies in the US. I dunno if anyone can verify this but it sounded like if you belong in medical school you'll get a US residency no matter where you go. The Caribbean schools will let you in, tell you you can be a doctor then take 50-100K from you in even if you really have no chance though. I'm not an expert here but it is the vibe I get talking with Caribbean students and doctors who went there. Why anyone would choose Caribbean over DO is beyond me though.

I had considered the Caribbean because of the intimidation of applying to US schools. I'm so thankful was accepted to a US DO school. I'm proud to be a future DO and the thought of leaving this country for an island makes me feel sick.

 

[GC1000]

I think caribbean MDs are equivalent to american MDs because the quality of being a good physician is not primarily dependent on the school attended. The student body as a whole is by far inferior since the graduation rate is super low. So low in fact, most are embarrassed about it and do not publish it.

 

[costales]

Here:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...al-school-rejects-as-taxpayers-fund-debt.html

Michael Uva, a 2010 graduate of St. George's University in Grenada, sits for a photograph in New York, on Aug. 19, 2013. Uva has $400,000 in medical school loans and currently earns $30 an hour overseeing a blood donation clinic in New Jersey, where he also draws blood. Photographer: Scott Eells/Bloomberg

 

[didymus]

Here:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...al-school-rejects-as-taxpayers-fund-debt.html

Michael Uva, a 2010 graduate of St. George's University in Grenada, sits for a photograph in New York, on Aug. 19, 2013. Uva has $400,000 in medical school loans and currently earns $30 an hour overseeing a blood donation clinic in New Jersey, where he also draws blood. Photographer: Scott Eells/Bloomberg

Dude, the comment section on that article was cracking me up. I guess if DeVry is making $2.0e8 per year in profit, they can afford to pay some people to post comments in favor of their school/program.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Here:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...al-school-rejects-as-taxpayers-fund-debt.html

Michael Uva, a 2010 graduate of St. George's University in Grenada, sits for a photograph in New York, on Aug. 19, 2013. Uva has $400,000 in medical school loans and currently earns $30 an hour overseeing a blood donation clinic in New Jersey, where he also draws blood. Photographer: Scott Eells/Bloomberg

This article is nauseating.

 

[TXKnight]

Dude, the comment section on that article was cracking me up. I guess if DeVry is making $2.0e8 per year in profit, they can afford to pay some people to post comments in favor of their school/program.

Yeah, was reading that too. Though many posters seem legit students, not agents. In any case, some dude at Ross was bragging how he is no "reject" and how he turned dowm three DO acceptances, because he wanted "the better degree and the MD letters" the carib had to offer.

 

[jayoh]

Yeah, was reading that too. Though many posters seem legit students, not agents. In any case, some dude at Ross was bragging how he is no "reject" and how he turned dowm three DO acceptances, because he wanted "the better degree and the MD letters" the carib had to offer.

Technically they confer MBBS degrees don't they? Which transfer to MD? Just curious.

Either way, I respect those who go Caribbean and succeed, but it's not for me. Carib schools freak me out

 

[guylewis]

it seriously seems like the off-shore med schools are a bubble that's waiting to burst. when it does explode, it will be ugly for those students who are a part of that system. but it'll be a huge boon for DO schools that'll see a big spike in applications as everyone will abandon the foreign medical schools just for the MD that doesn't land them a residency in the US. that might partially explain the rapid expansion of DO schools right now. they know this burst is imminent and they want to be poised to pick up the pieces when it happens. just my prediction, probably 10-20 years down the line. I could be totally wrong

 

[mcloaf]

Yeah, was reading that too. Though many posters seem legit students, not agents. In any case, some dude at Ross was bragging how he is no "reject" and how he turned dowm three DO acceptances, because he wanted "the better degree and the MD letters" the carib had to offer.

There are a lot of seriously misguided people in that comments section.

 

[EMDO2018]

Here:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...al-school-rejects-as-taxpayers-fund-debt.html

Michael Uva, a 2010 graduate of St. George's University in Grenada, sits for a photograph in New York, on Aug. 19, 2013. Uva has $400,000 in medical school loans and currently earns $30 an hour overseeing a blood donation clinic in New Jersey, where he also draws blood. Photographer: Scott Eells/Bloomberg

I like Sheryl MD in the comments because I like rooting for the underdog (perhaps a bit too much). If the MCAT average at these schools is 25 then there are obviously a lot of people that could go DO, why don't they?

 

[darklabel]

I like Sheryl MD in the comments because I like rooting for the underdog (perhaps a bit too much). If the MCAT average at these schools is 25 then there are obviously a lot of people that could go DO, why don't they?

If its a US citizen, then purely for the MD title and nothing more even though it isn't truly an MD rather an MBBS.

Can't believe people are willing to go to an island, then do 2 years in random clinical sites at God knows where and then face a 50% chance of not matching AT ALL, let alone at their first choice just so they can avoid DO title at the end. Though to be fair, most US citizens going to the islands aren't fully informed and may not even know DO schools exist.

 

[Isha2018]

Some Ross 4th years students came to my med school on rotation and I chatted with them for a bit. They said ~50% of their class is gone before 4th year. The ones that make it generally get residencies in the US. I dunno if anyone can verify this but it sounded like if you belong in medical school you'll get a US residency no matter where you go. The Caribbean schools will let you in, tell you you can be a doctor then take 50-100K from you in even if you really have no chance though. I'm not an expert here but it is the vibe I get talking with Caribbean students and doctors who went there. Why anyone would choose Caribbean over DO is beyond me though.

I can't believe you resurrected this old and crazy thread!!
I also can't believe I am drawn to it's seductive forces...

There is no question that US DO medical school is hands down better for a U.S. citizen than any foreign medical school, including the Caribbean!

But, for those unfortunate aspiring doctors who messed up big-time in their undergrad (so big that they can't get into any DO school) and are okay with a butt-load of debt and an uphill battle to match into a US residency, the Caribbean may be the only option available. More power to them if they can prove themselves.

May the odds forever be in their favor...

 

[Isha2018]

Yeah, was reading that too. Though many posters seem legit students, not agents. In any case, some dude at Ross was bragging how he is no "reject" and how he turned down three DO acceptances, because he wanted "the better degree and the MD letters" the carib had to offer.

Better degree....my foot! Maybe for his situation, a for-profit, foreign MD is better, but I'm not buying it.

 

[bionerd89]

Here:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...al-school-rejects-as-taxpayers-fund-debt.html

Michael Uva, a 2010 graduate of St. George's University in Grenada, sits for a photograph in New York, on Aug. 19, 2013. Uva has $400,000 in medical school loans and currently earns $30 an hour overseeing a blood donation clinic in New Jersey, where he also draws blood. Photographer: Scott Eells/Bloomberg

I think its ridiculous how this article makes it seem like the only students competing for residency spots are US MD and Caribbean MD...

 

[costales]

The author's focus was on the financial risk/reward of the Caribbean route vs the USMD route. I thought it was a decent article.

 

[bionerd89]

Their focus was on the financial risk/reward of the Caribbean route vs the USMD route. I thought it was a decent article.

Yeah I thought it was an interesting article..the comment section reminds me of an MD vs DO argument ...I think its so funny how someone said they chose Caribbean over DO schools because they wanted the MD label ..how can someone who wants to be a doctor care so much about a label..it kinda shows what their priorities really are