MD in Ross or DO in US?

[chokiepie]

Hey guys.. I've been accepted to a Ross and today I came to know that I"ve been accepted in a DO school too. I haven't heard from any MD schools from US as of now. I like both and I'm totally confused what to do.. PLEASE HELP. Waiting for all your views..

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[Vvandenn]

doooooooooooooooo

 

[EEL08]

DO in US hands down. Question answered we can close this thread now.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

I take it you wanna practice medicine in the US, so I would go with DO.

 

[nascardoc]

I personally would always choose to stay in the U.S. regardless of MD or DO.

 

[aaj117]

It totally depends on what you intend to do with it. If you are interested in practicing abroad, the MD from Ross would be useful because for some reason, DOs aren't recognized in a lot of countries. However, if you plan to practice in the states, i would suggest making sure you have a solid understanding of the differences between DO and MD and making sure you are interested in the DO route, because it is probably the better option if you're practicing in the states. I've met fine physicians who went to Ross, however it's one of those things where people do look at it differently and you have to work harder to earn respect or trust from older physicians. DOs are much more accepted by other physicians, from the feeling i get working side by side with both.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Cross post in pre-allo and pre-osteo. Should be closed.

 

[Phoenix.]

Moving this thread from the Pre-Allopathic Forum to the Pre-Osteopathic Forum.

OP, if you would prefer this post in the International Forum, just PM me.

 

[bcntequiero]

Hmm...I hope this is not getting too off topic from the original post...but what do you think about studying medicine in Europe (for example, in England, Ireland, France, Spain, or Italy?) (And I am asking this while assuming that the person speaks the native language of the respective country.)

 

[167649]

DO. It is much more difficult to match out of the carribean. In the US allopathic match: USMD>USDO>>>>>CarribeanMD>OtherMD. There are also osteopathic exclusive residencies. And, because both US MD and DO programs are expanding in general, without a cocurrent increase in US residency postions, carribean and foreign graduates are going to have an even harder time matching in the future.

About the foreign recognition thing, it is true that DO's are not as widely recognized in some other countries (not because they are inferior, of course, but because almost all DO's practice in the US). This is changing though, for example many commonwealth nations have recognized the DO as equivalent in recent years. If going to practice in another country was your thing, it would be more of an issue. If you want to go work at a hospital in the developing world, nobody cares what you have.

Plus, do you really want to go to the carribean? It sounds like it might be cool at first, but living as an alien resident in another country is not as peachy as it often seems. There can be obvious culture, security, and financial issues. Plus I assume none of your family/friends are from there so you will be a long ways away from your support base.

 

[gasapple]

Man, you need to go to Ross! Think about the island life - warm sun on your face, a trade wind breeze, water like liquid turquoise...

If none of those things appeal to you, then do it for the simple sake of sparing us from another one of these ****ing threads!

Instead of waiting for our replies, try the SDN search button next time, it's rather robust and at least 4 of these thread-types surface...

 

[whateva07]

People on sdn seem to be for DO vs carribean....but talking to a couple of my friends who went to the carribean, it doesnt seem that bad. So I dont know what to think. I keep hearing mixed reviews!

 

[gasapple]

People on sdn seem to be for DO vs carribean....but talking to a couple of my friends who went to the carribean, it doesnt seem that bad. So I dont know what to think. I keep hearing mixed reviews!

LMAO! - of course it's from a perspective of "if you get lemons, make lemonade". That's too funny. I'd never base an informed assessment on what things "seemed".

The reviews aren't mixed and it's not just relegated to SDN. Check your sources: practicing physicians and US admissions deans will typically echo the same, just ask.

For the record, I've talked to a few Carribean specialists and they do just fine but they did concur that they would have gone DO before the Carribean if they'd had the time and/or option.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Carribean DO school is the only answer.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Carribean DO school is the only answer.

Can osteopaths practice in the Carribean??

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Are you kidding me? The carribean is the birthplace of voodoo magic. Osteopathy was practically invented there.

 

[billydoc]

Carribean DO school is the only answer.

Yaah Mon! Me OMM dis vul'canos, Mon

To the OP....As someone who went to ROSS before, and has lots and lots of friends going through the interviews for 2008 my sugguestion is DO NOT make your life more complicated than it already is. For starters, go visit this he11hole Dominica, and I don't mean on the Cruise where you'll spend 3 hours tops visiting different part of that island anyway. Go live there for like 2 - 3 weeks to get an idea. Please don't get me wrong. ROSS will do just fine, if....you don't have an option of studying in U.S. It's up to you, but do not kid yourself with that stupid D.O vs MD retorik. It's U.S vs Foreign. You'll see it when you get there. Also do not kid yourselfwith "MD" having more international opportunities. Especially from the 2nd chance schools chartered in the Caribbean. Not all countries will recognize a degree from ROSS. If you work abroad for U.S interests (CIA, military, dipl corp etc) D.O is fine b/c it's still U.S. Many countrties now recognize U.S D.O separately from the European version of ostiopath, wh are not physicians BTW as opposed to D.O s in U.S. But quite frankly, I can't think of more idiotic idea than going to the very expensive Carib school, which is geared towards practicing in U.S, and then just go to some "socialist European paradise" where you'll be making like $60K tops. Why just not go to the medical school where it's free or very, very cheap, b/c those programs are domicile for those countries. Unlike the Carib where medical education is for export to U.S.

Anyway, to me D.O is no brainer, but you do what you want.

 

[aliDO]

I'm going DO, but that's because I actually want to be a DO. I really think either would be fine. There are major struggles with the Caribbean, though. Some people find they can't handle the major change in environment and living conditions. With that said, I went to the doctor today (bronchitis) and he had just recently finished residency and graduated from Ross. Second career, had to be 60. He is taking over a very successful practice and he totally rocked! If you are dedicated you will be fine either way. Most people would agree that the "stigma" attached to DO's is less than Caribbean MD.

 

[Bacchus]

I'm going DO, but that's because I actually want to be a DO. I really think either would be fine. There are major struggles with the Caribbean, though. Some people find they can't handle the major change in environment and living conditions. With that said, I went to the doctor today (bronchitis) and he had just recently finished residency and graduated from Ross. Second career, had to be 60. He is taking over a very successful practice and he totally rocked! If you are dedicated you will be fine either way. Most people would agree that the "stigma" attached to DO's is less than Caribbean MD.

I am going to ask this and I'm probably going to lose some respect, I absolutely mean nothing malicious by it but can forsee the lynchmob at my door...

Did he pick FP because he was older, because he wanted to do FP, or did he have trouble matching into a more "competitive" residency?

This is a benign question, don't try to blow anything out of proportion anyone.

 

[JShineDoc]

I havent read any of the above responses so not sure if I'm duplicating a response.... but here's my two cents. I've worked at a hospital for almost three years now and will be attending a DO school in the fall. During my employment I befriended many physicians and was constantly picking their brains about things like this. They all say that DO is better than foreign MD. This is coming straight from the mouth of attendings that actually interview and hire residents. So basicly, you are more competitive when applying for residency if you come from a US DO rather than foreign MD.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Here's how I see it, although I may be wrong. The average DO student is not as good as the average MD student. For whatever reason: not as smart, not as dedicated, more non-trad students with a family or whatever to deal with. However, there are also a good number of DO students who can hang with any MD student, and they went to DO school for any number of reasons. Most probably couldn't get into MD school, but it doesn't matter. These are the people who the DO schools love. The "hidden gems".

These "hidden gems" are the ones who take the USMLE boards, do well, and match into competitive specialties if they so choose. A lot of DO students end up in FP or other, less-competitive specialties, but it isn't because they went to DO school and got screwed. Its because they earned it with their performance. There will be exceptions, but that is my guess to what you are going to see a lot of.

 

[aliDO]

I am going to ask this and I'm probably going to lose some respect, I absolutely mean nothing malicious by it but can forsee the lynchmob at my door...

Did he pick FP because he was older, because he wanted to do FP, or did he have trouble matching into a more "competitive" residency?

This is a benign question, don't try to blow anything out of proportion anyone.

I really don't know. I'm sure it somewhat had to do with age (after all, he couldn't spend too much time in residency or he'd be ninety when he started practicing!). He seemed smart to me, but who knows. Some people actually want to do FP too. It's a more predictable/less stressful lifestyle (so they say). You will be at a disadvantage for matching residency more with Caribbean MD than DO if the school is all you take into account is where you attended school. Your board scores are what will matter the most. That depends on you (and the quality of your education) which I haven't been to medical school anywhere so I don't know about the quality of either. Ross has large class sizes and many people feel that is a disadvantage. Some DO schools do too. Go with your gut. I think you'll be just fine.

 

[iowagirl]

do DO!!!

 

[Knockout Mice]

Go DO!!! OMM is the sh**

 

[simpleman]

OMG people!!!!! this is getting irritating.....this is the 17th thread like this and I reached a point where i cant take it anymore. Do you know how many people I know wish they would gain an admission to a US DO school? LOTSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!! yet you come on here and ask this question.......DO is a much better path than Ross. Ross admitts people with a 15s and 16s on their mcats, while DO standards are way higher!!!! People in the high 20s and 30s are accepted into DO schools. so for you to be accepted into a US medical school, that means, ur standards are higher and that means you stick with it...dont shoot lower and please dont have second thoughts....this is ridiculous.
Look at Ross' attrition rates, cost, and do more research about it. Ross's clinical sites have decreased in numbers. There is just so many negatives.........and do research here www.valuemd.com just read about carrib schools in general....people who failout from SGU go to Ross due to easier admission. Ross wants your money so bad, they really dont care who u r. You are just a number to them.

I am so happy and thankful to be attending a DO school and I am learning so much right now. I am respected around the community and among the physicians in town. You wont get that in the carrib.......go DO and you wont regret. I am willing to bet you a year from now or less...you will be much happier being here in the US......

I apologize if i sounded harsh in this post (usually its not in my nature) but honestly, u were not the first one to ask this question and this time, it pressed on a lumbar nerve!!!! Go DO and you will be happy....I gurantee you !

 

[Bacchus]

I really don't know. I'm sure it somewhat had to do with age (after all, he couldn't spend too much time in residency or he'd be ninety when he started practicing!). He seemed smart to me, but who knows. Some people actually want to do FP too. It's a more predictable/less stressful lifestyle (so they say). You will be at a disadvantage for matching residency more with Caribbean MD than DO if the school is all you take into account is where you attended school. Your board scores are what will matter the most. That depends on you (and the quality of your education) which I haven't been to medical school anywhere so I don't know about the quality of either. Ross has large class sizes and many people feel that is a disadvantage. Some DO schools do too. Go with your gut. I think you'll be just fine.

I completely agree with this. Its all true. I was just posing the question because what I have gathered from SDN is a lot of FMG go into the primary care specialties. Regardless, good for him.

 

[spicedmanna]

Here's how I see it, although I may be wrong. The average DO student is not as good as the average MD student. For whatever reason: not as smart, not as dedicated, more non-trad students with a family or whatever to deal with. However, there are also a good number of DO students who can hang with any MD student, and they went to DO school for any number of reasons. Most probably couldn't get into MD school, but it doesn't matter. These are the people who the DO schools love. The "hidden gems".

Ugh. I told myself I wouldn't post in this thread...

Your post, TT, is poised to propagate myths. Why? Because once you get into medical school, whatever school you are attending, everything is reset back to zero. Your undergraduate GPA and MCAT score(s) become, for the most part, meaningless, beyond some mild predictive value. Therefore, your contention that the average DO student is not as "good" as the average MD student is false (whatever "good" actually means); you can't make that claim with MCAT/GPA information. It's probably true that the average osteopathic medical applicant/matriculant has a lower average uGPA/MCAT score than the average allopathic medical applicant/matriculant. However, past admissions, that is, post-matriculation, that data ceases to have much meaning. We need to look at new metrics.

Anyway, comparisons of this nature are pointless. The truth of the matter is that the average numbers of osteopathic medical schools tend to be lower than many allopathic ones. So what? This has very little meaning, actually. Is higher necessary better? Where is the causative data/study that shows that? Right. My contention is that the averages tend to be lower because:

1) More non-trads
2) Smaller applicant pool
3) Greater focus on application elements beyond MCAT/GPA
4) Precedent

To me, though, it looks like the average numbers are on the rise, for what that's worth. Anyway, MCAT/uGPA are simply part of the admissions game. Once you are in a medical school, there are other factors.

Also, not everyone wants to do a so-called competitive residency. Osteopathic medical schools have traditionally embraced primary care. It is natural that many choosing to attend an osteopathic medical school would go that direction. This is not to say that those who want other specialties can't get them. Far from it, actually. At KCUMB, my understanding is that we tend to have more students who choose to specialize in non-primary care specialties than those who do. Go figure.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

My point was more to say that there isn't really an average DO student. There seems to be a lot more variety in the kinds of people a DO school gets, rather than the standard 3.7/32 or whatever that the MD schools get. There are outliers, but most of the people I know who are headed to MD schools are pretty much clones of each other, whereas the DO crowd is pretty varied.

 

[spicedmanna]

My point was more to say that there isn't really an average DO student. There seems to be a lot more variety in the kinds of people a DO school gets, rather than the standard 3.7/32 or whatever that the MD schools get. There are outliers, but most of the people I know who are headed to MD schools are pretty much clones of each other, whereas the DO crowd is pretty varied.

Well, our experiences don't prove anything except what we happened to be exposed to. However, since we are sharing experiences, mine is that averages tend to mean very little across the board, whether you are talking about osteopathic or allopathic. Statistics speak about group dynamics, not the individual person. I don't see that we can really draw the conclusion that you do from your data. Given the uniqueness of each individual, there is no so-called "average" any student. Let go of admissions numbers; they are used for admissions cut-offs and decisions. That's pretty much it.

Anyway, there tends to be slightly different strategies in admissions screening, but the result is that both types of schools make competent, if not excellent physicians. There is really no more to be said about this subject.

 

[foxycleop]

Is SGU a better option in Caribbean schools than Ross? Please correct me if I am wrong but at the end doesn't it all come down to how you do at USMLE I, II, III that really determines how you do at your residency matches? I think the whole issue about us/foreign is really about what kind of scores you have. And most of you would probably agree that the students who go to Caribbean (except a few who probably went due to some special circumstances) are not exactly the cream of the crop.
Anyone agree/disagree?

 

[simpleman]

i personally know 2 people who scored in the 90th-95th percentile in USMLE Step I, II, III all across and they even cant get a FP position at their desired location!!!!!! These are FMGs(not from carrib)....and these folks are super intelligent. They applied to other top positions, but were flat out rejected.......

so to answer ur question foxycleop....Yes and No....Yes Board scores are what matter most importantly and No most depends on where u graduated from (overseas/outside US)

the increasing # of US grads and more schools opening will pretty much narrow down the choices for FMGs and IMGs....

 

[sexyman]

You'll be fine at either. If having DO after your name REALLY bothers you go to Ross. One of my best friends is a 4th year out of Ross and is doing extremely well with interviews right now. He has tons of Radiology interviews (including one at Yale).

Me personally I'd rather and am going DO.

 

[foxycleop]

I agree that other IMGs (other than Caribbean) would be even worse off than the ones from Caribbean. Maybe because of different styles of teaching etc. in different countries and other visa issues etc. Here I am talking specifically about Caribbean schools (specifically SGU, Ross and AUC because these are the 3 main ones) as Caribbean medical schools/teaching style is designed specifically for US practice.

i personally know 2 people who scored in the 90th-95th percentile in USMLE Step I, II, III all across and they even cant get a FP position at their desired location!!!!!! These are FMGs(not from carrib)....and these folks are super intelligent. They applied to other top positions, but were flat out rejected.......

so to answer ur question foxycleop....Yes and No....Yes Board scores are what matter most importantly and No most depends on where u graduated from (overseas/outside US)

the increasing # of US grads and more schools opening will pretty much narrow down the choices for FMGs and IMGs....

 

[Instatewaiter]

I agree that other IMGs (other than Caribbean) would be even worse off than the ones from Caribbean

Remember the term FMG encompasses anyone that is not from a US school so it depends on what country they are from. If they are from Germany or any of western europe you are way off but if they are from Yemen then sure.

 

[whateva07]

See I am confused, b/c I have friends who went to the carribeans and asked them how it is...and they're like the location isnt bad and its great. One of my friends father is a physician and they keep advocating going to the carribeans. I dont know. People who go to the carribeans, do you think they were not competitve enough for DO?

 

[gasapple]

ValueMD people, look into it.

 

[ShyRem]

people go caribbean for the same variety of reasons they go DO. I know one guy who had a 35 MCAT and a 3.8 GPA with a freakin' ton of experience, nice, well spoken --- but his wife said the only way she'd move for him to go to med school was if he went to the caribbean. So that's where they went.

Another guy - 18 MCAT, 2.4 GPA. Went caribbean because that's the only place he could get in.

 

[Cabbage]

what DO school did you get into?

 

[Lokhtar]

Depends. If you don't like the DO after your name, go to the Caribbean. If you do not care, and don't mind learning OMM, then go DO.

It's really that simple.

 

[scdocusc]

Personally, I went DO because of the focus on IM and family practice. While the MCAT and GPA are good admission tools they do not indicate anything about success as a student in medical school. I have numerous friends who got into MD schools in the south who took the same classes as me and had equal or lower grades. I just had a guy tell me that he was applying to a mexican medical school over DO because of the status of MD's. I gave him an earful to say the least. I've worked with DO's at hospitals (in the south mind you) and they are the best doctors at the hospital. They were better respected than MD doctors by staff, patients, and administrators.

 

[Lokhtar]

Personally, I went DO because of the focus on IM and family practice. While the MCAT and GPA are good admission tools they do not indicate anything about success as a student in medical school. I have numerous friends who got into MD schools in the south who took the same classes as me and had equal or lower grades. I just had a guy tell me that he was applying to a mexican medical school over DO because of the status of MD's. I gave him an earful to say the least. I've worked with DO's at hospitals (in the south mind you) and they are the best doctors at the hospital. They were better respected than MD doctors by staff, patients, and administrators.

Anecdotal evidence is irrelevent really, if you're going to go to MD for the prestige. Many people want that degree, and don't want D.O. after their name, and that's fair enough for them. I could tell you how a DO was the worst doctor I've ever been to, but that would be equally as irrelevent.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

people go caribbean for the same variety of reasons they go DO. I know one guy who had a 35 MCAT and a 3.8 GPA with a freakin' ton of experience, nice, well spoken --- but his wife said the only way she'd move for him to go to med school was if he went to the caribbean. So that's where they went.

Another guy - 18 MCAT, 2.4 GPA. Went caribbean because that's the only place he could get in.

So she forced his ass to go to an offshore school with a 35/3.8, markedly reducing his chances at competitive residencies in the future, just b/c SHE wanted to go to the Caribbean? Or else she would leave him?

Wow. I bet I know who wears the pants in that relationship. Hopefully there's more to the story- like he owes her a million dollars or something...

I have nothing new to add to this endless DO vs. Caribbean debate.

 

[scdocusc]

not every post people make is based on fact. Sometimes opinions and experiences are not irrelevant for everyone.

 

[predodoc]

You know its up to you. Alot of people like to defend the reason they chose a school and sway your opinions and to make themselves feel better about their own decision. Im a third yr at on of the NEW DO schools and overall Im glad I did it(not to say that you would be glad too). I applied to 2 local MD schools and the 2 Closest DO schools. If I had got into more than 1 I would have gone with the cheapest school(DO or MD). I like my friends/girlfriend and family and wanted to be somewhat close by no matter what.

The Decision for you shouldnt be too hard. add up the good things for each and add up the bads for each. The one with the most goods and least bads is the right one for YOU.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Attending medical school in the United States with the intent to practice in the United States vs Attending med school in the Carib with the intent to practice in the states. Evaluate that statement, and tell me which makes more sense.

 

[StriveToBeDr]

I think SGU is better than TUOROCOM. When I interviewed there, the campus and the rotation site are dissappointing. I got accepted by TUOROCOM, but I will give up my spot for other students.

 

[J1515]

You're probably better off volunteering and speaking to actual doctors instead of the opinions of pre-meds who are no more knowledgeable than you are.

 

[VQ35]

Like a lot of the other have said, if you want to practice in the US, go DO.

A lot of the medical schools in the United States are giving preferance to US schools for rotations and residencies. So you may get a great education no matter where you go, but will you get the residency you want (top pick), instead of your second or third choice.

Good luck with your decision

 

[fbf]

same situation here. got into SGU and NYCOM. I don't know what to do...

 

[Eudjinn]

same situation here. got into SGU and NYCOM. I don't know what to do...

i hope you are being sarcastic with this one....