Possibly taking my degree and running

[dl9006]

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2261293290&topic=2643

Looks like dentists from Australia are getting screwed by the US dental boards also

We must realise that the UK is now formally part of the EU; and it is in our best interest to look at other options for the future.
Because Australia is so geographically isolated from the rest of the world, we could greatly benefit from some other strong reciprocal agreements with other similar, western, first world, English-speaking nations, namely the United States and Canada.

Currently the US and Canada share a reciprocal agreement between each other similar to the agreement still held between Australia and New Zealand. Recently there has been a push in the United States and Canada to seek out more international ties as well and are open to the idea of creating a formal reciprocal agreement with Australia and New Zealand to unite the 4 countries and to allow a free flow of licensed professionals between the countrie

lol it seems all that jazz about eastern european dentists being welcomed with open arms in western europe was not true at all.

from the facebook group provided:

"Accreditation with the US/Canada is more achievable at the moment than the EU option. The UK is so overwhelmed by the numbers of eastern European dentists and doctors now that they don't have any jobs left even if we did have accreditation in the EU. "


please stop trying to make the US and Canada look like monsters. can't believe you compare us to cuba and north korea..

there's a reason why they don't make it easy for foreign graduates to come over.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[cadds]

lol it seems all that jazz about eastern european dentists being welcomed with open arms in western europe was not true at all.

from the facebook group provided:

"Accreditation with the US/Canada is more achievable at the moment than the EU option. The UK is so overwhelmed by the numbers of eastern European dentists and doctors now that they don't have any jobs left even if we did have accreditation in the EU. "


please stop trying to make the US and Canada look like monsters. can't believe you compare us to cuba and north korea..

there's a reason why they don't make it easy for foreign graduates to come over.

your whining act is getting old

Is called market economy /demand and supply/capitalism

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-earning-over-pound300000-a-year-1767127.html


Good dentist will always make a good living in the UK

Those dentists born with 4 feet instead of 2 hands and 2 feet are out of luck I guess

Some people will NEVER have the skills , regardless of the training/experience

Just like bad drivers..

I compare some dental boards with Cuba , since they impose dictatorship /draconian rules on qualified professionals and they are becoming more and more isolated in a global economy, just like Nort Korea



I do not Compare US with Cuba , I HATE Communism FYI

I am a proud American

 

[cadds]

lol it seems all that jazz about eastern european dentists being welcomed with open arms in western europe was not true at all.

from the facebook group provided:

"Accreditation with the US/Canada is more achievable at the moment than the EU option. The UK is so overwhelmed by the numbers of eastern European dentists and doctors now that they don't have any jobs left even if we did have accreditation in the EU. "


please stop trying to make the US and Canada look like monsters. can't believe you compare us to cuba and north korea..

there's a reason why they don't make it easy for foreign graduates to come over.

Welcomed or not , they work wherever they want in Europe if they are good enough to get the job.

That page is rather interesting, look at what I am finding out about Maine, very very interesting hmmm



Last month, the Maine Dental Association and the state's Board of Dental Examiners temporarily defeated a bill that would have expanded the requirements for receiving a license to practice dentistry to allow graduation from a foreign university considered satisfactory to the dental board. "An Act to Increase Access to Oral Health Care" would also have removed the requirement that applicants for licensure by endorsement that are licensed to practice in another state meet Maine's professional education requirements.

The bill was referred to a joint committee on business, research and economic development for further study to be completed in early 2008.

Maine , be assured that I have no intention of taking any of your jobs.

I am still much better off in sunny Cali LOL

 

[cadds]

Welcomed or not , they work wherever they want in Europe if they are good enough to get the job.

That page is rather interesting, look at what I am finding out about Maine, very very interesting hmmm



Last month, the Maine Dental Association and the state's Board of Dental Examiners temporarily defeated a bill that would have expanded the requirements for receiving a license to practice dentistry to allow graduation from a foreign university considered satisfactory to the dental board. "An Act to Increase Access to Oral Health Care" would also have removed the requirement that applicants for licensure by endorsement that are licensed to practice in another state meet Maine's professional education requirements.

The bill was referred to a joint committee on business, research and economic development for further study to be completed in early 2008.

Maine , be assured that I have no intention of taking any of your jobs.

I am still much better off in sunny Cali LOL

Watch out Maine , foreign dentists are coming out to get your jobs LOL

Why don't you make a letter addressed to all the EU dental schools and tell them how under-qualified they are .

Also tell us on this board about the reasons standing behind your position , please enlighten us!

 

[mrlantern]

No offense to you either , but the fact that you went to school in the US and I went to school in the EU is not an indicator that you are a better dentist than me or that I am a better dentist than you.

Do some research about the CA restorative technique exam , see how strict the grading was.

No test is perfect , but this is how people get their license.

And answer me the question nobody on this board dares to answer:

Why a foreign grad MD with US residency can practice anywhere in the US , whereas a dentist cannot?

I'm not taking anything away from you. I know about the CA boards and I know they are difficult. But many state boards are now doubting the validity of regional exams, even the WREB. This is why some states have already started requiring residency completion ( including US dental degrees ) for state licensure instead of the boards. Other states will soon follow in this licensure requirement. This is because the dental educators and legislators don't believe these exams really test the qualifications of a dentist. I cannot tell you why this is because I don't work with dental faculty and state boards.

As for foreign MDs in the US, it is not easy to be licensed in the US. Foreign physicians have to get accepted to and complete a US residency program, even though they don't want go thru training again. This is possible for them because there are many residency positions unfilled by US medical grads. And remember that residents become cheap labor for hospitals. So why else would the US want foreign residents to fill up all the remaining positions? This has nothing to do with the US being nice and wanting to give US licensures to foreign MDs.

 

[cadds]

I'm not taking anything away from you. I know about the CA boards and I know they are difficult. But many state boards are now doubting the validity of regional exams, even the WREB. This is why some states have already started requiring residency completion ( including US dental degrees ) for state licensure instead of the boards. Other states will soon follow in this licensure requirement. This is because the dental educators and legislators don't believe these exams really test the qualifications of a dentist. I cannot tell you why this is because I don't work with dental faculty and state boards.

As for foreign MDs in the US, it is not easy to be licensed in the US. Foreign physicians have to get accepted to and complete a US residency program, even though they don't want go thru training again. This is possible for them because there are many residency positions unfilled by US medical grads. And remember that residents become cheap labor for hospitals. So why else would the US want foreign residents to fill up all the remaining positions? This has nothing to do with the US being nice and wanting to give US licensures to foreign MDs.

I could EASILY get into a residency , but that would NOT help me

I would also be cheap labor for 2 years, I don't mind


I want equal treatment .

Why only MDs?

Thank you for being honest and recognizing the fact that in CA was really hard to get a license .

I think I attacked you previously and I am sorry.I am just being really frustrated with this


You sound like a very reasonable guy.


If states disagree so much , why don't they establish a common standard like NDBE 1 and 2. It would help US dentists also


Getting back to the protectionism issue

 

[mrlantern]

600 for crown /RCT on a molar, are you kidding me?

Is it that bad?

Where is that if you don't mind telling us?

It's in some areas within the NY metro area. I worked in many different clinics. Some notable neighborhoods off the top of my head include Washington Heights, Elmhurst, Jamaica, Downtown Brooklyn, Brownsville, and some others.

The only dentists that could survive here are the ones who can do a molar endo in maybe 45 min while doing two new patient exams. No rest seats for cast RPDs because clinics don't want to pay for extra final impression material. No rubber dams even for endo. Local dental labs are hungry for crown cases at $45 per piece, which require too much time for adjustments, not to mention ugly occlusal surfaces. You get the idea. I don't want to bother talking about local insurance because that is hard to explain to non-NY dentists. Anyway, this is why I was confused when you said more dental competition is good for dental consumers. Even though there are lots of dentists in this area, how is this actually improving dental care?

 

[cadds]

It's in some areas within the NY metro area. I worked in many different clinics. Some notable neighborhoods off the top of my head include Washington Heights, Elmhurst, Jamaica, Downtown Brooklyn, Brownsville, and some others.

The only dentists that could survive here are the ones who can do a molar endo in maybe 45 min while doing two new patient exams. No rest seats for cast RPDs because clinics don't want to pay for extra final impression material. No rubber dams even for endo. Local dental labs are hungry for crown cases at $45 per piece, which require too much time for adjustments, not to mention ugly occlusal surfaces. You get the idea. I don't want to bother talking about local insurance because that is hard to explain to non-NY dentists. Anyway, this is why I was confused when you said more dental competition is good for dental consumers. Even though there are lots of dentists in this area, how is this actually improving dental care?

Kind of sucks , since NY is really expensive , I guess dentists have more overhead-higher rent salaries etc

the lab only is 150-200-300 for a full ceramic , the kind of dental work you are telling me about is crap

And how can one do molar endo for 300????

It is fairly easy to do it in 45 minutes , but those NI-Ti rotary files cost money


Competition makes it more affordable for consumers, not necessarily better in terms of quality, this is what I mean

It could improve the quality to some extent , since a dentist in a saturated are will try harder to be the best , so he could retain patients

Could also decrease the quality , since a dentist would have to see more patients to make ends meet and compromise the quality




But in the real world, some people can barely afford a 600 RCT/PFM job , and is better for them than nothing or paying 1200 for the same thing if there were very few dentists

People with money will get a better treatment

Just like some people get a Kia and other people get a Benz

Is not a perfect world..

 

[cadds]

It's in some areas within the NY metro area. I worked in many different clinics. Some notable neighborhoods off the top of my head include Washington Heights, Elmhurst, Jamaica, Downtown Brooklyn, Brownsville, and some others.

The only dentists that could survive here are the ones who can do a molar endo in maybe 45 min while doing two new patient exams. No rest seats for cast RPDs because clinics don't want to pay for extra final impression material. No rubber dams even for endo. Local dental labs are hungry for crown cases at $45 per piece, which require too much time for adjustments, not to mention ugly occlusal surfaces. You get the idea. I don't want to bother talking about local insurance because that is hard to explain to non-NY dentists. Anyway, this is why I was confused when you said more dental competition is good for dental consumers. Even though there are lots of dentists in this area, how is this actually improving dental care?

what was the average daily salary for an associate in such an "intense" NYC working environment?

 

[gryffindor]

Sorry caDDS, your arguments do not hold weight. Since you can graduate from dental school in the US and go straight to work, the last 2 years are like residency. So it makes sense that those are the 2 years that foreign dentists are required to do. Medical residency spots are limited for foreign medical students. Both foreign medical doctors and dentists are welcome in the US if you can get one of the spots for further training that are available for them.

Having practiced in TN, I can tell you that if they didn't have the requirement to work in an underserved area, they wouldn't be giving foreign dentists licenses at all because otherwise they would all set up shop in the already saturated cities. You only got licensed through a loophole in CA which another poster mentioned was originally intended to try and get dentists to treat underserved communities but obviously that plan backfired on the state much like so many other of the California's bankrupting decisions.

 

[Ninja9]

I am NOT degrading and insulting the nation, I did NOT say bad things about US , my problem is with protectionism when it comes to US dental licensure.


Actually I love US very much , I would not be here otherwise

I pay taxes, too , I am US citizen

Have you heard of 1st amendment?

Do you know the US constitution?

So just cut the BS

I understand you are a U.S. citizen, and if you say you love this country, that's great, but many of your posts have been arrogant and hostile towards the other posters here. Yes, some individuals have been quite defensive, but the way you introduced yourself and the topic at hand was not done very professionally.

"Most people bragging their skills on this board would NOT be able pass the CA bench test"

Stop saying stuff like ^ and maybe more people would be sympathetic to your situation.

 

[cadds]

I understand you are a U.S. citizen, and if you say you love this country, that's great, but many of your posts have been arrogant and hostile towards the other posters here. Yes, some individuals have been quite defensive, but the way you introduced yourself and the topic at hand was not done very professionally.

"Most people bragging their skills on this board would NOT be able pass the CA bench test"

Stop saying stuff like ^ and maybe more people would be sympathetic to your situation.

I was called ***** , illiterate , undereducated etc on this board , by future dentists.

I did not mean to be arrogant , but statistically very few dentists , US or foreign , are able to pass the CA bench test , because the expectations from that test are extremely high , almost unreasonable

I am not saying that I am better than US graduates, I am saying that I am qualified enough and definitely a better human being than that guy calling me ***** and illiterate.

I am licensed in 2 countries and speak a few languages , so I am not illiterate

 

[cadds]

Sorry caDDS, your arguments do not hold weight. Since you can graduate from dental school in the US and go straight to work, the last 2 years are like residency. So it makes sense that those are the 2 years that foreign dentists are required to do. Medical residency spots are limited for foreign medical students. Both foreign medical doctors and dentists are welcome in the US if you can get one of the spots for further training that are available for them.

Having practiced in TN, I can tell you that if they didn't have the requirement to work in an underserved area, they wouldn't be giving foreign dentists licenses at all because otherwise they would all set up shop in the already saturated cities. You only got licensed through a loophole in CA which another poster mentioned was originally intended to try and get dentists to treat underserved communities but obviously that plan backfired on the state much like so many other of the California's bankrupting decisions.

Really?

So my 10 years of practice in CA are not equivalent to the 2 years of residency in your "unbiased" opinion?

So you think you are a better dentist than me , for sore , just because I did not do the 2 years?

Do you want to give CA bench test or clinical exam a try?

See how it is?


Did you read the whole thread?

The US residency would not help a foreign grad DDS in TN , but it would allow an MD to practice

Why the difference between MD and DDS when it comes to licensure?


What the dental board of Tennessee practices is shameless, ruthless discrimination , and is directed towards US citizens educated abroad

To me , the members of the dental board of Tennessee are a disgrace to the profession of dentist, for discriminating against US citizens who are MORE educated than them (due to the completion of an ADA accredited residency) but not allowed to practice anywhere they want to , except the shortage areas.


Again , are those people in shortage areas second class citizens treated by second class dentists?

Dental board of Tennessee should either allow those specialists to practice ANYWHERE in TN , or nowhere at all.

Yes , I understand that US jobs need protection from foreigners, but I am talking about US citizens here.

I am one of them , yes , US citizen discriminated against in my own country.

 

[cadds]

I mean for sure , I was typing too fast

 

[MRSA]

mods, please consider banning cadds, he is spamming/trolling the hell out of the message boards.

:troll:

 

[dl9006]

mods, please consider banning cadds, he is spamming/trolling the hell out of the message boards.

:troll:

 

[cadds]

mods, please consider banning cadds, he is spamming/trolling the hell out of the message boards.

:troll:

Wow

Did I try to sell anything?

You may want to check the definition of spamming .

Banned for what?

For trying to raise awareness regarding injustice?

If you don't like what I have to say , don't read it.

can't you see that US educated dentists have issues also when trying to work in EU?

Why not try to make life easier for everyone and fix a flawed licensure system?


Because you don't agree with me?

 

[doc toothache]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=9537133#post9537133

 

[gryffindor]

I don't have the time to debate every point of yours. I do believe that the California Bench Test was a mere loophole that you were able to exploit to get a very limiting license. Even you admit that if you had to do it over, you would do a 2 year program that gives you the ability to be licensed in any state, just like our MD colleagues can do after their residency.

I am actually glad they did away with bench test because it didn't seem sensible to license international dentists in a state with 4 dental schools (at the time) and CA residents filling in over 50% of the spots in some of the east coast private dental schools and where Los Angeles is known as the most saturated place to practice in US. A US dental Board exam doesn't test much about clinical competency; it's all about knowing the rules and practicing to the rules. I know many people who were talented dentists and took the old school California licensing exam (the test for the US DDS grads) and failed because of things like putting on the napkin the wrong way or submitting a paper upside down. Passing a board exam doesn't mean anything. Maybe 10 years of experience in the US could mean something, but licensure is a state thing so take it up with the state boards.

 

[Nightguard]

To Cadds,

Since you are from Europe, maybe you can give me an opinion of my situation. I am an American dentist in private practice and married to a European. We may have to go back to Western Europe because of spouse's job. I know I have to repeat probably 2 years of schooling to get a license there. However, this is not my main concern. I am just concerned with how difficult it's going to be to find a job after finishing since though I am an American, I am of Asian descent. I lived in Europe for a few years and I know from experience that in this particular European country (German speaking, I do speak the language, by the way), they are not that open to non-white foreigners in general. So being Asian-American, I just wonder how hard it will be to get hired into private practice by local dentists. Dentistry is still a small business catering to local people after all. I'm not sure how eager local dentists will be in hiring out of the box. What do you think?

 

[cadds]

I don't have the time to debate every point of yours. I do believe that the California Bench Test was a mere loophole that you were able to exploit to get a very limiting license. Even you admit that if you had to do it over, you would do a 2 year program that gives you the ability to be licensed in any state, just like our MD colleagues can do after their residency.

I am actually glad they did away with bench test because it didn't seem sensible to license international dentists in a state with 4 dental schools (at the time) and CA residents filling in over 50% of the spots in some of the east coast private dental schools and where Los Angeles is known as the most saturated place to practice in US. A US dental Board exam doesn't test much about clinical competency; it's all about knowing the rules and practicing to the rules. I know many people who were talented dentists and took the old school California licensing exam (the test for the US DDS grads) and failed because of things like putting on the napkin the wrong way or submitting a paper upside down. Passing a board exam doesn't mean anything. Maybe 10 years of experience in the US could mean something, but licensure is a state thing so take it up with the state boards.

"A US dental Board exam doesn't test much about clinical competency"- what you said applies to US grads also.

Is not perfect , but is all we have right now.

And let me put it this way: do you REALLY think that the 2 year program for foreign DDS guarantees competency??

I don't think so

I have seen some new grads who don't have a clue , no offense to anyone.



When you add that clinical exam to NDBE 1 and 2 and to the bench test , I think it does add up to something

CA did not have the nerve of TN , once they issued a DDS license, it was unrestricted.

Obviously I would not have taken that path for a license restricted to welfare clinics. I am NOT biased or against welfare clicnics, but I strongly believe that once you are a dentist , you should be a dentist for EVERYONE in that state or country



To me CA bench test it was not a loophole, it was the right thing to do.

Many countries protect their citizens' jobs from foreigners, but I am talking about TN stepping on the rights of US citizens here.

As a US citizen , I expect the law to be unbiased .

The TN dental licensure law as it is , is discriminatory , biased and arbitrary

 

[cadds]

Tweets are being archived and studied , becoming part of US history

Watching TV right now



I will post my views regarding the blatant discrimination of dentists-US citizens who are denied practice in Tennessee, in spite of completion of a ADA accredited residency and DDS license in other states, daily.

Tennessee , why do you divide your citizens into second class and first class citizens when it comes to dental treatment?

Facebook page coming soon.

 

[dl9006]

Tweets are being archived and studied , becoming part of US history

Watching TV right now



I will post my views regarding the blatant discrimination of dentists-US citizens who are denied practice in Tennessee, in spite of completion of a ADA accredited residency and DDS license in other states, daily.

Tennessee , why do you divide your citizens into second class and first class citizens when it comes to dental treatment?

Facebook page coming soon.

must be a really slow news day if this becomes part of US history.

you act as if you were being segregated like african-americans were in the 1960s.

at least foreign dentists are not completely barred from practicing.

they gave you an opportunity. it's up to you if you want to follow that route.

i would think your situation is unfair if you did not have any options available but you do.

so please stop over-reacting and just go to school if you want it that badly

 

[Sonny1]

Tweets are being archived and studied , becoming part of US history

Watching TV right now



I will post my views regarding the blatant discrimination of dentists-US citizens who are denied practice in Tennessee, in spite of completion of a ADA accredited residency and DDS license in other states, daily.

Tennessee , why do you divide your citizens into second class and first class citizens when it comes to dental treatment?

Facebook page coming soon.

I thought only schools are allowed to award dds/dmd? you are given a license to practice only once you pass the board?

 

[gryffindor]

I thought only schools are allowed to award dds/dmd? you are given a license to practice only once you pass the board?

Some states (a handful really) have an exception where if a foreign dentist without a US degree completes an ADA accredited residency, you can get a license. Tennessee is one of those states, but they will only give you a license to practice once you identify that you have lined up a job or opportunity in a federally underserved area. You don't have to go to the sticks to find a federally underserved area. I recall that there was a federally underserved area in the smack middle of Nashville but it certainly wasn't the street where the country music stars hung out. I'm not going to debate if this is fair or unfair or second class or what. Those are the rules and if you don't like them, then go practice somewhere else. There are 49 other states out there.

NY doesn't give licenses anymore unless you have a US DDS and complete a residency. That excludes a whole ton of US grads who don't do residency from applying for a license in NY and essentially commits life-long NYers looking to stay in NY to at least one year of poorly paid of training. But you don't see NY students up in arms over how unfair this is. Well maybe they complain at the ASDA meetings, I don't know anymore. If you want to practice in NY, those are the rules and follow them or go to one of the other 49 states or move to Canada.

 

[cadds]

To Cadds,

Since you are from Europe, maybe you can give me an opinion of my situation. I am an American dentist in private practice and married to a European. We may have to go back to Western Europe because of spouse's job. I know I have to repeat probably 2 years of schooling to get a license there. However, this is not my main concern. I am just concerned with how difficult it's going to be to find a job after finishing since though I am an American, I am of Asian descent. I lived in Europe for a few years and I know from experience that in this particular European country (German speaking, I do speak the language, by the way), they are not that open to non-white foreigners in general. So being Asian-American, I just wonder how hard it will be to get hired into private practice by local dentists. Dentistry is still a small business catering to local people after all. I'm not sure how eager local dentists will be in hiring out of the box. What do you think?

As I thought , my posts are going all around the world , exposing the Canada/ some US dental boards licensure scam/bias /discrimination

You are one of the Americans being hurt by this repulsive ,discriminatory , biased DDS licensure policies



Don't you just love what a PC/ www connection can do this days?

The dental board of Tennessee will become the laughter of international dental community sooner or later.


My German experience is limited.


I think you are better off in the US , since is a very racially diverse country


I suggest you make 2 different resumes ( Asian and German name ) , get 2 different emails and phone numbers and see which one is more successful

Get the yellow pages and look at the names in that area where you will live , see how many Asian names you find

It would be an interesting study

Are you sure you can get away with the two year program?

Is not 4 years , like some US dental boards require?

How competitive is it to get into?

They make it very hard in the US , that is why dental boars accept it , since they know is almost impossible to get into

There are also dental boars who have the nerve to deny ALL your foreign dental school, there are states where you have to do the whole 4 year program again.

One suggestion , since you are US citizen and this country takes the rights/concerns of it's citizen's seriously:

Write a letter to US representatives , urging them to work towards reciprocity with EU and stop the dental boards biased and draconian rules

The fact that you speak German is a big plus.

Is your wife German?


Maybe you should send your resume BEFORE you move over there , do the necessary research regarding the licensure process


Do some research regarding the cost of opening up your own practice in Germany, maybe you can be your own boss and not have to look for a job


While in the 2 year "international " dentist program , I am sure you can get a feeling regarding the situation in that country.


Is it Germany, Austria, Switzerland ?

Isn't interesting that I do not see any European dentist posts on this board regarding how "illiterate, undereducated and *****" you are?



This is what an US undergrad told me on this board, very nice feedback indeed from someone who will eventually become a doctor

You don't see them screaming like little girls about an American taking there EU job either!

 

[cadds]

To Cadds,

Since you are from Europe, maybe you can give me an opinion of my situation. I am an American dentist in private practice and married to a European. We may have to go back to Western Europe because of spouse's job. I know I have to repeat probably 2 years of schooling to get a license there. However, this is not my main concern. I am just concerned with how difficult it's going to be to find a job after finishing since though I am an American, I am of Asian descent. I lived in Europe for a few years and I know from experience that in this particular European country (German speaking, I do speak the language, by the way), they are not that open to non-white foreigners in general. So being Asian-American, I just wonder how hard it will be to get hired into private practice by local dentists. Dentistry is still a small business catering to local people after all. I'm not sure how eager local dentists will be in hiring out of the box. What do you think?

The problem is that even if the owner is not prejudiced , if most of his patients are , is does not look too good.

I don't know what to tell you, I am sorry

What is the racial makeup of the population of the city where you will live?

Maybe there are not many Asian dentists and Asian patients will come see you.




By the way , do you think that a Caucasian dentist working in an Asian country encounter the same type of problem?


I hope I would not have to go to the elementary school, primary school , high school and dental school alll over again in China , in the name of protection of the Chinese dentists from the imminent US/EU dentist danger

lol

 

[cadds]

Some states (a handful really) have an exception where if a foreign dentist without a US degree completes an ADA accredited residency, you can get a license. Tennessee is one of those states, but they will only give you a license to practice once you identify that you have lined up a job or opportunity in a federally underserved area. You don't have to go to the sticks to find a federally underserved area. I recall that there was a federally underserved area in the smack middle of Nashville but it certainly wasn't the street where the country music stars hung out. I'm not going to debate if this is fair or unfair or second class or what. Those are the rules and if you don't like them, then go practice somewhere else. There are 49 other states out there.

NY doesn't give licenses anymore unless you have a US DDS and complete a residency. That excludes a whole ton of US grads who don't do residency from applying for a license in NY and essentially commits life-long NYers looking to stay in NY to at least one year of poorly paid of training. But you don't see NY students up in arms over how unfair this is. Well maybe they complain at the ASDA meetings, I don't know anymore. If you want to practice in NY, those are the rules and follow them or go to one of the other 49 states or move to Canada.

Why in those areas only?

If those specialists are qualified , why restrict them and discriminate against them?

Is it because the TN dentists want to have monopoly , maybe?

Isn't FTC supposed to stop this kind of thing happening?




Why only for "second class" citizens, according to TN law

The dental board of TN must have seen this by now, or someone must have called them

Guess what?

I am not giving up anytime soon

This is going to be emailed to all major news channels /newspapers in this country and to all International Dental Councils

The world must know what is going on in TN

Isn't the first amendment of the US constitution lovely?


They cannot accuse me of slander , libel etc, since I am just relating the facts


They do not even dare to answer to my questions.


Someone made a comparison with the discrimination against African Americans.

Yes , it is similar .

Wasn't the repulsive slavery considered to be "normal" a while ago?

But everyone condemns it now?

 

[MRSA]

The problem is that even if the owner is not prejudiced , if most of his patients are , is does not look too good.

I don't know what to tell you, I am sorry

What is the racial makeup of the population of the city where you will live?

Maybe there are not many Asian dentists and Asian patients will come see you.

By the way , do you think that a Caucasian dentist working in an Asian country encounter the same type of problem?

I hope I would not have to go to the elementary school, primary school , high school and dental school alll over again in China , in the name of protection of the Chinese dentists from the imminent US/EU dentist danger

lol

maybe Nightguard should start his own tweet and spamming internet forums about the injustices that will be heaped upon him.....

(should Nightguard move to Europe and have these problems, these problems, unlike your's, would be true injustices, not mundane rants about nothing)

 

[cadds]

I thought only schools are allowed to award dds/dmd? you are given a license to practice only once you pass the board?

The EU dental school I went to awarded me the equivalent of the US DDS degree.

CA law states that I can display DDS next to my name, yes I know how horrible this sounds to all those dentists scared of the foreign dentists invading America, but guess what?

They have to live with it.

In CA, I am DDS

 

[MRSA]

This is going to be emailed to all major news channels /newspapers in this country and to all International Dental Councils

let us know how that goes.

They cannot accuse me of slander , libel etc, since I am just relating the facts

No, you are doing none of those things. We are all accusing you of being utterly ridiculous.

Someone made a comparison with the discrimination against African Americans.


Yes , it is similar .

Wasn't the repulsive slavery considered to be "normal" a while ago?

But everyone condemns it now?

wow...you should probably contact Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson while you're at it. Let them know how bad you have it, and how your problems resemble African American civil rights issues...

 

[cadds]

maybe Nightguard should start his own tweet and spamming internet forums about the injustices that will be heaped upon him.....

(should Nightguard move to Europe and have these problems, these problems, unlike your's, would be true injustices, not mundane rants about nothing)

Oh really ?

You mean because he went to an US school , it would be true injustice for him not to get awarded a EU license automatically, whereas , because I went to an EU school , my US problem is just a rant.

Times are changing , my dear scared of EU competition dentist


As long as a DDS EU license is treated like s##t in US /Canada, Eu will do the same to American graduates.

Is just fair

 

[MRSA]

my US problem is just a rant.

yup. rant does not equal injustice.

 

[cadds]

"No, you are doing none of those things. We are all accusing you of being utterly ridiculous."

Yet , you do not have a decent , convincing answer to any of my previous questions.

Neither you , nor any of the members of the dental board of Tennessee




I am afraid that you the one acting ridiculous and avoiding a real debate

 

[cadds]

yup. rant does not equal injustice.

are you afraid EU dentists are gonna come get your job?

 

[MRSA]

"No, you are doing none of those things. We are all accusing you of being utterly ridiculous."

Yet , you do not have a decent , convincing answer to any of my previous questions.

Neither you , nor any of the members of the dental board of Tennessee




I am afraid that you the one acting ridiculous and avoiding a real debate

when you begin to present truly debatable material and a REAL problem with TN's and other state's legislature about med/dent certification, then we'll chat. until then, the rest of us will continue to wonder why this is such an issue for you.

[i'm done feeding the troll now]

 

[cadds]

when you begin to present truly debatable material and a REAL problem with TN's and other state's legislature about med/dent certification, then we'll chat. until then, the rest of us will continue to wonder why this is such an issue for you.

[i'm done feeding the troll now]

It doesn't look to me that you can get it ,can you? maybe due to some limitations??...

What proof do you want?

If a foreign MD with US residence can do brain surgery in Tennessee or anywhere in America for that matter , while a foreign DDS with US residence can only drill teeth in TN welfare clinics,

don't you just get it?

Of course you do , just like the dental board of Tennessee does, but you pretend you don't understand what the problem is


I discussed the issue with some friends working in Eu right now , they were simply disgusted with the attitude of people like yourself

 

[cadds]

It doesn't look to me that you can get it ,can you? maybe due to some limitations??...

What proof do you want?

If a foreign MD with US residence can do brain surgery in Tennessee or anywhere in America for that matter , while a foreign DDS with US residence can only drill teeth in TN welfare clinics,

don't you just get it?

Of course you do , just like the dental board of Tennessee does, but you pretend you don't understand what the problem is


I discussed the issue with some friends working in Eu right now , they were simply disgusted with the attitude of people like yourself

What I forgot to mention is the fact that the foreign trained DDS is US citizen, in case the Dental board of Tennessee did not get that.

And there is more than one.

There are many US citizens the dental board of Tennessee discriminates against when it comes to licensure

 

[Ninja9]

Someone made a comparison with the discrimination against African Americans.

Yes , it is similar .

Wasn't the repulsive slavery considered to be "normal" a while ago?

But everyone condemns it now?

At this point, I hope they make it harder for people like you (with your attitude, not all foreign-trained dentists) to get a license in the U.S. The licensing process should come with a thorough psychological evaluation...

 

[cadds]

At this point, I hope they make it harder for people like you (with your attitude, not all foreign-trained dentists) to get a license in the U.S. The licensing process should come with a thorough psychological evaluation...

Hiding behind questioning my personality?

I am just very determined , that is all.

Don't you think that 2 years @ $ 70,000-90,000 /year plus the lost income are enough determination for most people?

Plus the strong drive for justice?


Why not dare to just answer this simple question instead of calling me crazy


If a foreign MD with US residence can do brain surgery in Tennessee or anywhere in America for that matter , while a foreign DDS with US residence can only drill teeth in TN welfare clinics?


Are the endodontics different in CA and TX compared to TN , or OMFS, or orthodontics?

Tell me something I don't know!

Is a very simple question.

Do you have the answer?

Do you want me to give you names of foreign trained MD's with US residency who perform open heart surgeries in America, without the American MD 's screaming like little girls "how undereducated" those heart surgeon are?

 

[cadds]

At this point, I hope they make it harder for people like you (with your attitude, not all foreign-trained dentists) to get a license in the U.S. The licensing process should come with a thorough psychological evaluation...

I already have an unrestricted US license , in CA

Live with it

 

[Ninja9]

Hiding behind questioning my personality?

I am just very determined , that is all.

Don't you think that 2 years @ $ 70,000-90,000 /year plus the lost income are enough determination for most people?

Plus the strong drive for justice?


Why not dare to just answer this simple question instead of calling me crazy


If a foreign MD with US residence can do brain surgery in Tennessee or anywhere in America for that matter , while a foreign DDS with US residence can only drill teeth in TN welfare clinics?


Are the endodontics different in CA and TX compared to TN , or OMFS, or orthodontics?

Tell me something I don't know!

Is a very simple question.

Do you have the answer?

Do you want me to give you names of foreign trained MD's with US residency who perform open heart surgeries in America, without the American MD 's screaming like little girls "how undereducated" those heart surgeon are?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-02-26-doctor-shortage_N.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081201105700.htm

http://www.amsa.org/AMSA/Homepage/About/News/101909.aspx

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=36142

Read that. That's why it is easier for foreign-trained MDs to practice here. It's about supply and demand. TN will allow you to practice in underserved areas because they NEED more dentists there.

Why can't you practice anywhere you want, in any of the states, without jumping through hoops? Same reason we can't.

Stop making yourself the victim.

 

[Ninja9]

I already have an unrestricted US license , in CA

Live with it

I mean for you to move to any other state. You can have CA.

 

[cadds]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-02-26-doctor-shortage_N.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081201105700.htm

http://www.amsa.org/AMSA/Homepage/About/News/101909.aspx

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=36142

Read that. That's why it is easier for foreign-trained MDs to practice here. It's about supply and demand. TN will allow you to practice in underserved areas because they NEED more dentists there.

Why can't you practice anywhere you want, in any of the states, without jumping through hoops? Same reason we can't.

Stop making yourself the victim.

Would you agree that what they are doing is called protectionism, what TN does ?

Give me a simple answer : yes or no.

What bugs me the most is the fact that they are doing this to American citizens.

I thought protectionism was reserved for foreign nationals.


You don't feel sorry at all for US dentists trying to move to Europe and getting screwed just like I do?


What if you have to move to EU?

How will you feel then?

 

[cadds]

At least they should be honest and recognize that is about controlling the supply and demand , instead of giving us the bull**** about the education requirements and how "inferior" the EU dental schools are .

Oh please , can't you just set up some supplemental exams for EU doctors if you cared about competency whatsoever?

You don't give a s##t about competency or consumers , all you care about is keeping your pockets fat

All you care about is price control , plain and simple , so cut the crap, dental board of Tennessee


Is called greed and hypocrisy



That would give me some consolation , if they were honest instead of trying to bull**** consumers and dentists with their education requirements stories

To any patient out there in Tennessee , if you are looking for a dentist in Tennessee, be aware that due to dental board regulations , qualified specialists are NOT allowed to see you , that is why you pay a ton of money for periodontal surgery , 3rd molar extraction , difficult endodontics , pedodontists for your children etc

If the dental board of Tennessee allowed qualified ADA accredited educated specialists to see you , maybe you would see a 5 % drop in what you pay.


But this specialists you need are only allowed to see "second class citizens " in welfare clinics in TN, due to the wisdom and concern for citizens of the dental board of Tennessee members


You may contact the dental board of at


Ruth E. Bailey, D.D.S. President Dentist 03-31-2012 James L. Smith, D.D.S. Vice-President Dentist 03-31-2011 John M. Douglass, Jr., D.D.S. Sec./Tres. Dentist 03-31-2010 Marlene S. Fullilove R.D.H Board Member Dental Hygienist 06-30-2012 Katherine H. Cherry, R.D.H. Board Member Dental Hygienist 03-31-2011 Jeffrey M. Clark, D.D.S. Board Member Dentist 03-31-2010 Betty G. Fox, R.D.A. Board Member Registered Dental Assistant 03-31-2012 Lawrence Hsia, D.M.D Board Member Dentist 03-31-2011 Isaac Fordjour, D.D.S. Board Member Dentist 03-31-2012 Michael P. Tabor, D.D.S. Board Member Dentist 06-30-2010 Agnes S. Young Board Member Citizen 03-31-2011
http://health.state.tn.us/boards/Dentistry/


Dental(615) 532-5073 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (615) 532-5073 end_of_the_skype_highlighting (615) 770-7444 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (615) 770-7444

 

[Ninja9]

Would you agree that what they are doing is called protectionism, what TN does ?

Give me a simple answer : yes or no.

It's not a simple yes or no question, though. It's not protectionism in the sense that I believe you think it is.

What bugs me the most is the fact that they are doing this to American citizens.

I thought protectionism was reserved for foreign nationals.

I look at it this way: I am paying to go to school in the United States, so I can practice in the United States. I am paying taxes while going to school, and have and will support the economy now, during school, and afterwards when I have to pay back loans. Although you may be a US citizen, you did not go down the same path. You said yourself you got your education for free or near-free (comparatively speaking), but you took your degree and came here. So who loses out? I would say the country where you were trained.

I believe that is another reason why they make it so difficult. Why would a country train individuals to become dentists if there was a big chance they would pack up and leave once they were handed a degree? I bet that if the rules were lightened, we would have a huge influx of dentists, and many of the countries where they came from would go into a shortage.

You don't feel sorry at all for US dentists trying to move to Europe and getting screwed just like I do?


What if you have to move to EU?

How will you feel then?

To tell you the truth, I would LOVE to practice in Europe. However, I understand the regulations and rules (and WHY they are in place). If me moving to the EU became an absolute necessity, I would accept the procedures and roll with the punches. I am the one trying to establish myself in ANOTHER country-not the other way around.

Just out of curiosity, were you a US citizen before you left for dental school? If you were, then I somewhat understand your argument a bit more.

 

[Ninja9]

At least they should be honest and recognize that is about controlling the supply and demand , instead of giving us the bull**** about the education requirements and how "inferior" the EU dental schools are .

Oh please , can't you just set up some supplemental exams for EU doctors if you cared about competency whatsoever?

You don't give a s##t about competency or consumers , all you care about is keeping your pockets fat

All you care about is price control , plain and simple , so cut the crap, dental board of Tennessee


Is called greed and hypocrisy



That would give me some consolation , if they were honest instead of trying to bull**** consumers and dentists with their education requirements stories

To any patient out there in Tennessee , if you are looking for a dentist in Tennessee, be aware that due to dental board regulations , qualified specialists are NOT allowed to see you , that is why you pay a ton of money for periodontal surgery , 3rd molar extraction , difficult endodontics , pedodontists for your children etc

If the dental board of Tennessee allowed qualified ADA accredited educated specialists to see you , maybe you would see a 5 % drop in what you pay.


But this specialists you need are only allowed to see "second class citizens " in welfare clinics in TN, due to the wisdom and concern for citizens of the dental board of Tennessee members


You may contact the dental board of at


Ruth E. Bailey, D.D.S. President Dentist 03-31-2012 James L. Smith, D.D.S. Vice-President Dentist 03-31-2011 John M. Douglass, Jr., D.D.S. Sec./Tres. Dentist 03-31-2010 Marlene S. Fullilove R.D.H Board Member Dental Hygienist 06-30-2012 Katherine H. Cherry, R.D.H. Board Member Dental Hygienist 03-31-2011 Jeffrey M. Clark, D.D.S. Board Member Dentist 03-31-2010 Betty G. Fox, R.D.A. Board Member Registered Dental Assistant 03-31-2012 Lawrence Hsia, D.M.D Board Member Dentist 03-31-2011 Isaac Fordjour, D.D.S. Board Member Dentist 03-31-2012 Michael P. Tabor, D.D.S. Board Member Dentist 06-30-2010 Agnes S. Young Board Member Citizen 03-31-2011
http://health.state.tn.us/boards/Dentistry/


Dental(615) 532-5073 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (615) 532-5073 end_of_the_skype_highlighting (615) 770-7444 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting (615) 770-7444

You're being ridiculous again. Why would a state go out of their way to saturate a market- thus hurting those practicing who are trying to pay off astronomical loans- just so foreign-trained dentists can practice there because they "want to"?

 

[cadds]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-02-26-doctor-shortage_N.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081201105700.htm

http://www.amsa.org/AMSA/Homepage/About/News/101909.aspx

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=36142

Read that. That's why it is easier for foreign-trained MDs to practice here. It's about supply and demand. TN will allow you to practice in underserved areas because they NEED more dentists there.

Why can't you practice anywhere you want, in any of the states, without jumping through hoops? Same reason we can't.

Stop making yourself the victim.

There are states with HUGE shortage of dentists:

Maine , Alaska , Tennessee etc

Do they allow anyone from outside in?

Nope

Greed and protectionism rule


Maine board of dental examiners was very quick to reject the licensure of DDS licensed in another US state for 5 years through reciprocity, if the applicant seeking licensure was a foreign graduate.


They have won , for now...

Google shortage of dentists in Maine!

Where is the concern for the consumers?

Nowhere

Is just greed , plain and simple

Hypocrisy and injustice

 

[cadds]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-02-26-doctor-shortage_N.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081201105700.htm

http://www.amsa.org/AMSA/Homepage/About/News/101909.aspx

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=36142

Read that. That's why it is easier for foreign-trained MDs to practice here. It's about supply and demand. TN will allow you to practice in underserved areas because they NEED more dentists there.

Why can't you practice anywhere you want, in any of the states, without jumping through hoops? Same reason we can't.

Stop making yourself the victim.

Google shortage of dentists in the USA

Too many hits on Google

So your argument that they are allowing foreign MDs because of shortage does not work

There is shortage of dentists also.

US MD s paid a lot for med school , still do not insult their EU colleagues by pretending that EU schools are inferior

They do not scream EU doctors get out!

 

[cadds]

You're being ridiculous again. Why would a state go out of their way to saturate a market- thus hurting those practicing who are trying to pay off astronomical loans- just so foreign-trained dentists can practice there because they "want to"?

Most of the markets in the US are in shortage of dentists , try google

Licensure should be based on fairness and merits , what does it have to do with saturation/

Have you ever heard about market adjusting itself?

Is called capitalism, it made US great

Competition does benefit consumers