Possibly taking my degree and running

[Hawkeye7685]

I always see how many people are trying to become dentists in the United States with degrees from foreign countries. I was just wondering what it is like for a person with an American degree to practice elsewhere. I understand that I would probably make less money overseas but its just something that I've always considered and think would be kind of interesting. I would ideally prefer to practice in Ireland since I have family there. Any advice or rude comments about how I'm betraying the United States by taking my degree elsewhere would be greatly appreciated.

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[informatique]

for every 1 person that decides to leave, 500 foreign trained dentists come in....at NYU.

 

[aegdboy]

I wanted to leave the US after dental school and move to Australia or new Zealand. Well guess what, Australia does not recognize a US degree and I need to go back to an Australian dental school! At least that was the case 4 years ago.

Since I am not doing d-school over, guess where I am not moving?

 

[sabdul]

I wanted to leave the US after dental school and move to Australia or new Zealand. Well guess what, Australia does not recognize a US degree and I need to go back to an Australian dental school! At least that was the case 4 years ago.

Since I am not doing d-school over, guess where I am not moving?

WTH!? Australia NOT RECOGNIZING A U.S. DEGREE!? Australia is like some neck of the woods cabin! Meanwhile, U.S. is a world superpower! How dare they not accept U.S. credentials!? LoL, wtv...there's plenty of other countries to practice in. I hear Norway is doing quite well and its future looks optimistic! Be weary of Dubai though!...That place itself is a massive ponzi scheme waiting to collapse!

 

[robhmnt]

WTH!? Australia NOT RECOGNIZING A U.S. DEGREE!? Australia is like some neck of the woods cabin! Meanwhile, U.S. is a world superpower! How dare they not accept U.S. credentials!? LoL, wtv...there's plenty of other countries to practice in. I hear Norway is doing quite well and its future looks optimistic! Be weary of Dubai though!...That place itself is a massive ponzi scheme waiting to collapse!

Totally irrelevant!
It's all about competition. You think the American dental schools make those foreign dentists [some of whom have several years of experience) go through D3 and D4, because they have had a poor education in their own countries? The answer is NO! They try to put these barriers in front of foreign dentists in order to limit the number of them emigrating to the U.S. and competing with the average American dental student who comes out of school with at least $200k of debt. Overall, not that many dentists would want to close their office and leave their relatively superior life style in their country in order to emigrate to the U.S., adapt to a new society, and go through two years of stuff they learned in the past (not to mention many dental schools have very few spots for them, and it's really competitive). I can make a good guess that the same American books are probably being used in foreign dental schools, and most of the facilities we have here are also available in foreign countries (please exclude Somalia, Sudan, and Ethiopia, since we are not talking about those). Australia has the same right as we have, to not recognize foreign degrees in order to protect the income of their trained dentists.

 

[sabdul]

Totally irrelevant!
It's all about competition. You think the American dental schools make those foreign dentists [some of whom have several years of experience) go through D3 and D4, because they have had a poor education in their own countries? The answer is NO! They try to put these barriers in front of foreign dentists in order to limit the number of them emigrating to the U.S. and competing with the average American dental student who comes out of school with at least $200k of debt. Overall, not that many dentists would want to close their office and leave their relatively superior life style in their country in order to emigrate to the U.S., adapt to a new society, and go through two years of stuff they learned in the past (not to mention many dental schools have very few spots for them, and it's really competitive). I can make a good guess that the same American books are probably being used in foreign dental schools, and most of the facilities we have here are also available in foreign countries (please exclude Somalia, Sudan, and Ethiopia, since we are not talking about those). Australia has the same right as we have, to not recognize foreign degrees in order to protect the income of their trained dentists.

Hmm...I got pwned...

 

[Masseter]

You can go to Canada if you want. Lot's of people here are from Irish descendant ahah!

 

[TheSwede]

Totally irrelevant!
It's all about competition. You think the American dental schools make those foreign dentists [some of whom have several years of experience) go through D3 and D4, because they have had a poor education in their own countries? The answer is NO! They try to put these barriers in front of foreign dentists in order to limit the number of them emigrating to the U.S. and competing with the average American dental student who comes out of school with at least $200k of debt. Overall, not that many dentists would want to close their office and leave their relatively superior life style in their country in order to emigrate to the U.S., adapt to a new society, and go through two years of stuff they learned in the past (not to mention many dental schools have very few spots for them, and it's really competitive). I can make a good guess that the same American books are probably being used in foreign dental schools, and most of the facilities we have here are also available in foreign countries (please exclude Somalia, Sudan, and Ethiopia, since we are not talking about those). Australia has the same right as we have, to not recognize foreign degrees in order to protect the income of their trained dentists.

That's true. I many countries dental school is entirely free. In Sweden for instance, standards are very high and everyone can enroll in dental school provided that some prerequisites are met.

Salaries in Sweden are however much lower than in the States. If there were no barriers, people would be stupid to stay in Sweden.

 

[Lily143]

You can go to Canada if you want. Lot's of people here are from Irish descendant ahah!

I'd actually consider this. I've heard Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver are pretty cool cities. I wonder what it would take to practice in Canada w/ a US degree.

 

[Yellow Snow]

I'd actually consider this. I've heard Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver are pretty cool cities. I wonder what it would take to practice in Canada w/ a US degree.

You have to take the canadian boards. I saw some website awhile back that was recruiting foreign dentists to work in the netherlands.

 

[mrlantern]

Australia has the same right as we have, to not recognize foreign degrees in order to protect the income of their trained dentists.

So why is there a fuss about the US not accepting foreign dental degrees?

US dentists can't easily get licensure in other countries. And foreign dentists can't easily get licensed in the US.

Sounds fair to me.

 

[cadds]

I wanted to leave the US after dental school and move to Australia or new Zealand. Well guess what, Australia does not recognize a US degree and I need to go back to an Australian dental school! At least that was the case 4 years ago.

Since I am not doing d-school over, guess where I am not moving?

I am sorry to hear what's happening to you , but why should other countries recognize US/Canadian dental schools , while foreign graduated dentists , regardless of the country of graduation ,are treated in the US like s**t?

I have been a licensed dentist for over 8 years in CALIFORNIA , but I cannot move to any other state unless I go to dental school again...

I graduated in a EU country and I can work anywhere in the EU without taking any further exams or additional years of school.

I really hope EU countries will NEVER recognize US/Canadian dental school unless the recognition is mutual.

 

[cadds]

So why is there a fuss about the US not accepting foreign dental degrees?

US dentists can't easily get licensure in other countries. And foreign dentists can't easily get licensed in the US.

Sounds fair to me.

It may sound fair to you , since you may me an unskilled dentist scared of competition.

If you were good at what you are doing, you would not care

 

[armorshell]

You have to take the canadian boards. I saw some website awhile back that was recruiting foreign dentists to work in the netherlands.

Plus, Canadian boards are easier.

American boards: Find patients that meet incredibly narrow criteria, find backup patients in case other patients fail, pay all of those patients, pay the boards administrators, pray patients show up on test day, subject self to ultra-subjective grading.

Canadian boards: Multiple choice computer based exam.


I know which one I'd rather be taking.

 

[Simiam]

I am sorry to hear what's happening to you , but why should other countries recognize US/Canadian dental schools , while foreign graduated dentists , regardless of the country of graduation ,are treated in the US like s**t?

I have been a licensed dentist for over 8 years in CALIFORNIA , but I cannot move to any other state unless I go to dental school again...

I graduated in a EU country and I can work anywhere in the EU without taking any further exams or additional years of school.

I really hope EU countries will NEVER recognize US/Canadian dental school unless the recognition is mutual.

Just thought I would point out an obvious fallacy in your argument. You are practicing in the US, even though it is restricted. Yet, you wish for an absolute non recognition for US Dentists in the EU. Doesn't seem quite fair does it?

 

[Simiam]

Oh, and nice work dredging up a year old post

 

[mrlantern]

It may sound fair to you , since you may me an unskilled dentist scared of competition.

If you were good at what you are doing, you would not care

How insulting.

You're not the only one with problems. Other countries won't give me licensure either because they don't recognize my US dental degree. Why is this? This is because they're afraid of competition like myself, right?

And maybe you're trying to move out of CA because you think your awful clinical skills are in demand within other states.

 

[cadds]

Just thought I would point out an obvious fallacy in your argument. You are practicing in the US, even though it is restricted. Yet, you wish for an absolute non recognition for US Dentists in the EU. Doesn't seem quite fair does it?

You are right, maybe EU should only recognize dentists with a few years of practice in those very few states allowing EU dentists to practice

I am practicing in the US since I got my license before California law changed


http://www.doh.wa.gov/hsqa/professions/Publications/documents/Dentistry.pdf

Some US states are taking steps towards cutting the BS , while other states have dental boards who are rather interested in blocking the competition that allowing trained dentists to practice , specially in shortage areas.

Example: Alaska - the Dental board knows that so many people have dental problems and cannot find a dentist , but they would let people's teeth rot than allowing dentists who are foreign graduates AND have been licensed in another US state for 5 years or more to practice

http://www.fff.org/freedom/1096d.asp


http://www.wtb.wa.gov/Documents/FinalHealthCarePersonnelShortageTaskForce2008Update.pdf


America is a great country with great dental schools , but to pretend that all other schools all over the world are sub-standard is ludicrous

 

[cadds]

How insulting.

You're not the only one with problems. Other countries won't give me licensure either because they don't recognize my US dental degree. Why is this? This is because they're afraid of competition like myself, right?

And maybe you're trying to move out of CA because you think your awful clinical skills are in demand within other states.

No dear, I simply do no like CA that much

Talking about skills , I am just fine , thanks for your concern


What is awful is not my skill, but your personality

 

[cadds]

How insulting.

You're not the only one with problems. Other countries won't give me licensure either because they don't recognize my US dental degree. Why is this? This is because they're afraid of competition like myself, right?

And maybe you're trying to move out of CA because you think your awful clinical skills are in demand within other states.

EU states recognize each others' dentists, so they are not afraid of competition.

Dental boards are not greedy trying to do whatever they can to stop doctors from other countries from practicing dentistry

Maybe they do not recognize US dentists , since US does not recognize EU

Is just normal

I am more skilled that about 90 % of GP's , FYI

 

[armorshell]

I am more skilled that about 90 % of GP's , FYI

Yeah, me too.

 

[mrlantern]

EU states recognize each others' dentists, so they are not afraid of competition.

Dental boards are not greedy trying to do whatever they can to stop doctors from other countries from practicing dentistry

Maybe they do not recognize US dentists , since US does not recognize EU

Is just normal

I am more skilled that about 90 % of GP's , FYI

All dentists think they're the best.

And yes. Other countries don't recognize US dentists. And the US doesn't recognize foreign dentists. Other countries won't accept my US dental degree. So why are you complaining?

 

[mrlantern]

No dear, I simply do no like CA that much

Talking about skills , I am just fine , thanks for your concern


What is awful is not my skill, but your personality

You started the personal comments. Surely this is the lapse of your own personality.

And CA is a large state. If you can't hack it anywhere there, you are the problem. Sounds like you need a 4 yr dental curriculum and a residency anyway.

 

[dmd87]

i will tell you why the US should continue to not recognize other countries degrees without an advanced training program: I will be entering dental school after doing an undergrad (4 yrs), I will spend another 4 yrs in dental school (at a cost of 350K). For example, I know many people who will go to India to become a dentist at Manipal. They will incur substantially less debt than me, and will only take then 4-5 years after high school. Regardless of skill, it is not fair to the students of US and Canada that they have to go through 3-4 years more of schooling, and incur hundreds of thousands more in debt + lost income. End of discussion.

FYI, Schooling in the EU is substantially cheaper than the US. Why should we let dentists who studied there for less time and picked up less debt allow to practice here and make the some money?

 

[dl9006]

i will tell you why the US should continue to not recognize other countries degrees without an advanced training program: I will be entering dental school after doing an undergrad (4 yrs), I will spend another 4 yrs in dental school (at a cost of 350K). For example, I know many people who will go to India to become a dentist at Manipal. They will incur substantially less debt than me, and will only take then 4-5 years after high school. Regardless of skill, it is not fair to the students of US and Canada that they have to go through 3-4 years more of schooling, and incur hundreds of thousands more in debt + lost income. End of discussion.

FYI, Schooling in the EU is substantially cheaper than the US. Why should we let dentists who studied there for less time and picked up less debt allow to practice here and make the some money?

what does tuition cost have to do with being qualified?

 

[dmd87]

what does tuition cost have to do with being qualified?
life is unfair, get used to it

so you are telling me that you are okay with the idea of picking up 350K+ in debt, and taking on 2500 a month for the next 25 years, to have someone who basically has no debt come here and practice and take home 40K a yr more than you, while they went to school for 4 yrs less?? you went to UBC, you know that undergrad is not a walk in the park and that dental school is tough to get into. I know tons of people who have went to foreign dental schools after f*cking up one year of their undergrad at a cdn undergad. You worked harder than them to get in, you will pick up more debt than they will, and spend more time in school, but they will make the same as you (you will make less actually bc of the debt factor). Having an IDP will put a bottleneck on the number of international dentists to avoid saturation of the industry, which has already happened in many areas (BC has the highest dentist : population ratio in canada already!). An IDP will also ensure that these international dentists are spending the same amount of time in school as us, and not having the same earning potential for 1/5th to a 1/10th of the cost.

 

[Simiam]

You are right, maybe EU should only recognize dentists with a few years of practice in those very few states allowing EU dentists to practice

I am practicing in the US since I got my license before California law changed


http://www.doh.wa.gov/hsqa/professions/Publications/documents/Dentistry.pdf

Some US states are taking steps towards cutting the BS , while other states have dental boards who are rather interested in blocking the competition that allowing trained dentists to practice , specially in shortage areas.

Example: Alaska - the Dental board knows that so many people have dental problems and cannot find a dentist , but they would let people's teeth rot than allowing dentists who are foreign graduates AND have been licensed in another US state for 5 years or more to practice

http://www.fff.org/freedom/1096d.asp


http://www.wtb.wa.gov/Documents/FinalHealthCarePersonnelShortageTaskForce2008Update.pdf


America is a great country with great dental schools , but to pretend that all other schools all over the world are sub-standard is ludicrous

I was just pointing out the flaw in your assessment. I think it is interesting that California will allow you to practice, while other states will not. Of course, that is America. Anything not enumerated in the US Constitution to be a power of the federal government, is a power of the state government. As such, many states have very different laws regarding the same thing. Part of what makes the US great I guess. Nonetheless, you run into some funny laws.

You started the personal comments. Surely this is the lapse of your own personality.

And CA is a large state. If you can't hack it anywhere there, you are the problem. Sounds like you need a 4 yr dental curriculum and a residency anyway.

It's also possible that he simply doesn't like all the regulation, tax, and bueracracy that California has to offer. Maybe he just wants to go to a state that won't withold his state income tax return, because they are broke and need the money...

Do you have to be a US citizen in order to work for the federal prison system or NHSC??? That might allow you to leave the state?

i will tell you why the US should continue to not recognize other countries degrees without an advanced training program: I will be entering dental school after doing an undergrad (4 yrs), I will spend another 4 yrs in dental school (at a cost of 350K). For example, I know many people who will go to India to become a dentist at Manipal. They will incur substantially less debt than me, and will only take then 4-5 years after high school. Regardless of skill, it is not fair to the students of US and Canada that they have to go through 3-4 years more of schooling, and incur hundreds of thousands more in debt + lost income. End of discussion.

FYI, Schooling in the EU is substantially cheaper than the US. Why should we let dentists who studied there for less time and picked up less debt allow to practice here and make the some money?

It is quite possible that the problem is actually with our education... Why is education so expensive now? I mean some schools have been having 5% tuition increases every year. Also, based on your argument, what do you feel about students from UoP? They only studied 3 years for the DMD/DDS...

Just playing to devil's advocate to push the convo!! Isn't it fun!?

 

[mrlantern]

It's also possible that he simply doesn't like all the regulation, tax, and bueracracy that California has to offer. Maybe he just wants to go to a state that won't withold his state income tax return, because they are broke and need the money...

If she is only after the money, she will be very disappointed. Low reimbursements, such as $30 fillings, are very common even outside of CA. I know there are some places right now that are considered hot for dentists. But the local economy and supply-demand always work in cycles. The best region today will eventually cool off and become saturated within the next few years. Look what happened to South Florida, Provo, and Las Vegas. I know there are some specific rural areas that has been in need of dentists for over a decade but they tend to have low average income and the low reimbursements exist there also. As long as $30 fillings exist, the difficulty will always be there.

 

[dmd87]

I was just pointing out the flaw in your assessment. I think it is interesting that California will allow you to practice, while other states will not. Of course, that is America. Anything not enumerated in the US Constitution to be a power of the federal government, is a power of the state government. As such, many states have very different laws regarding the same thing. Part of what makes the US great I guess. Nonetheless, you run into some funny laws.



It's also possible that he simply doesn't like all the regulation, tax, and bueracracy that California has to offer. Maybe he just wants to go to a state that won't withold his state income tax return, because they are broke and need the money...

Do you have to be a US citizen in order to work for the federal prison system or NHSC??? That might allow you to leave the state?



It is quite possible that the problem is actually with our education... Why is education so expensive now? I mean some schools have been having 5% tuition increases every year. Also, based on your argument, what do you feel about students from UoP? They only studied 3 years for the DMD/DDS...

Just playing to devil's advocate to push the convo!! Isn't it fun!?

Pacific grads go year around for 3 yrs + pick up a ****load of debt just like every other school... all good in my books!

 

[dmd87]

If she is only after the money, she will be very disappointed. Low reimbursements, such as $30 fillings, are very common even outside of CA. I know there are some places right now that are considered hot for dentists. But the local economy and supply-demand always work in cycles. The best region today will eventually cool off and become saturated within the next few years. Look what happened to South Florida, Provo, and Las Vegas. I know there are some specific rural areas that has been in need of dentists for over a decade but they tend to have low average income and the low reimbursements exist there also. As long as $30 fillings exist, the difficulty will always be there.

30 dollar fillings?? wtf?

 

[cadds]

what does tuition cost have to do with being qualified?

Good question.

This is what some people here are saying:

let foreign dentists go to school all over again , so they can pay as much as we did.

The true color of this people so against qualified foreign dentists is shinning through.

We have a very high percentage of MD's , foreign medical school graduates, who can practice anywhere in the US after completing an US residency.

Why if I complete an US residency program in a certain specialty, I still can only move to a very few states and practice my specialty there?

If I do an Otho ADA accredited program , why I have to go to dental school again in order to practice Ortho in NY, NJ, etc.


Why I am a licensed DDS in CA and I 'd have to do 2 years of hygiene school in order to clean teeth in Nevada 500 miles away from LA?

How ridiculous is that?



Can't you people tell that this is all bull****?

 

[dmd87]

Good question.

This is what some people here are saying:

let foreign dentists go to school all over again , so they can pay as much as we did.

The true color of this people so against qualified foreign dentists is shinning through.

We have a very high percentage of MD's , foreign medical school graduates, who can practice anywhere in the US after completing an US residency.

Why if I complete an US residency program in a certain specialty, I still can only move to a very few states and practice my specialty there?

If I do an Otho ADA accredited program , why I have to go to dental school again in order to practice Ortho in NY, NJ, etc.


Why I am a licensed DDS in CA and I 'd have to do 2 years of hygiene school in order to clean teeth in Nevada 500 miles away from LA?

How ridiculous is that?



Can't you people tell that this is all bull****?

bull**** or not, its part of making the process fair. with regard to international MD's doing a residency and practicing, they have to score much higher USMLE scores than domestic grads to land the same specialties. again, there are a set limit of residency spots which makes sure that the field does not get saturated and that MDs are paid adequately. This is one of the reasons why we should continue to have international dental training programs: it would not be in any of our best interests to have the field of dentistry saturated.

btw cadds, you might wanna learn english in a higher capacity.

 

[cadds]

bull**** or not, its part of making the process fair. with regard to international MD's doing a residency and practicing, they have to score much higher USMLE scores than domestic grads to land the same specialties. again, there are a set limit of residency spots which makes sure that the field does not get saturated and that MDs are paid adequately. This is one of the reasons why we should continue to have international dental training programs: it would not be in any of our best interests to have the field of dentistry saturated.

btw cadds, you might wanna learn english in a higher capacity.

English is NOT my 1st language , and btw , I speak more languages than you do.

My English is more than adequate in terms of communicating with my patients.

Besides that , I was writing in a hurry.
English starts with capital E , just so you know

The residencies are limited for dentists also , but dentists trained in a ADA accredited specialty program still do not get to practice in any state like the foreign MD s

Those DDS specialists had very high scorers.

So your argument is flawed


Ans of course , you only care about yout greedy pockets, not about the consumers having enough doctors available in the US

 

[cadds]

bull**** or not, its part of making the process fair. with regard to international MD's doing a residency and practicing, they have to score much higher USMLE scores than domestic grads to land the same specialties. again, there are a set limit of residency spots which makes sure that the field does not get saturated and that MDs are paid adequately. This is one of the reasons why we should continue to have international dental training programs: it would not be in any of our best interests to have the field of dentistry saturated.

btw cadds, you might wanna learn english in a higher capacity.

http://www.internationaldoc.com/


Plenty of foreign MD's able to practice ANYWHERE in the US , without protectionist state restrictions.


It has NOT been shown that they are less competent than the US graduates; it is the same with dentists, but it looks like greed and protectionism run really high in the field of dental licensure in the US and Canada

IMGs make up 23% of the US physician workforce, and 24% of residents

BTW , I heard some Florida hygienists complaining that foreign dentists licensed as hygienists in that state are not "good enough"!

Oh Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!

I am so glad they are competing with you and driving your wages down and drive you out of Florida

 

[Simiam]

Pacific grads go year around for 3 yrs + pick up a ****load of debt just like every other school... all good in my books!

I know, I'm just being sarcastic as usual! They have a great set up there. They produce good dentists from what I've seen.


CaDDS... It sucks man, but that's just the way it is. You have to make the best of a crap situation. At least you are in the best country in the world practicing the best profession!

 

[mrlantern]

BTW , I heard some Florida hygienists complaining that foreign dentists licensed as hygienists in that state are not "good enough"!

I am so glad they are competing with you and driving your wages down and drive you out of Florida

Yep. You got your wish, lady. It's very hard to find a halfway-decent dental job these days. With fillings as low as $30, dentistry isn't what it used to be. No one wants to pay for dentistry nowadays, and patient demands are unrealistically high, not to mention threats of litigation and lack of respect. As for Florida, forget about it. Not only is it hard to get a job in Florida but this state makes licensure very hard or impossible even for US dental grads. It's such a bad time to be in dentistry, don't you think?

 

[cadds]

Yep. You got your wish, lady. It's very hard to find a halfway-decent dental job these days. With fillings as low as $30, dentistry isn't what it used to be. No one wants to pay for dentistry nowadays, and patient demands are unrealistically high, not to mention threats of litigation and lack of respect. As for Florida, forget about it. Not only is it hard to get a job in Florida but this state makes licensure very hard or impossible even for US dental grads. It's such a bad time to be in dentistry, don't you think?

Finally something we agree upon LOL

 

[cadds]

I know, I'm just being sarcastic as usual! They have a great set up there. They produce good dentists from what I've seen.


CaDDS... It sucks man, but that's just the way it is. You have to make the best of a crap situation. At least you are in the best country in the world practicing the best profession!

Well, I am US citizen and I pay taxes , for which reason I expect some real justice in exchange.

I am posting these since I know my first amendment rights.

I will not settle for" just the way it is".

In general ( not dentistry only) , if everybody settles for things which are unfair, their is no progress.

I am too involved practicing dentistry right now , but I will raise national/international awareness regarding the issue/ contact the dental boards of every single country on the map and urge them not to accept US/Canadian DDS credentials, unless the acceptance is mutual

What person in his right mind would think that I am not qualified to practice at least Hygiene in another US state , after being a dentist for 10 years in California?

Should I remind them that the CA clinical exam included periodontics?

CA clinical exam was the most difficult in the US 10 years ago, NERB was a joke compared to CA

I am not interested in practicing as a hygienist , but I am just giving an example about how protectionist and shameless the rules are.

 

[cadds]

Well, I am US citizen and I pay taxes , for which reason I expect some real justice in exchange.

I am posting these since I know my first amendment rights.

I will not settle for" just the way it is".

In general ( not dentistry only) , if everybody settles for things which are unfair, their is no progress.

I am too involved practicing dentistry right now , but I will raise national/international awareness regarding the issue/ contact the dental boards of every single country on the map and urge them not to accept US/Canadian DDS credentials, unless the acceptance is mutual

What person in his right mind would think that I am not qualified to practice at least Hygiene in another US state , after being a dentist for 10 years in California?

Should I remind them that the CA clinical exam included periodontics?

CA clinical exam was the most difficult in the US 10 years ago, NERB was a joke compared to CA

I am not interested in practicing as a hygienist , but I am just giving an example about how protectionist and shameless the rules are.

I mean I am posting this

 

[cadds]

http://www.honolulumagazine.com/Honolulu-Magazine/February-2005/A-License-to-Drill/

 

[cadds]

so you are telling me that you are okay with the idea of picking up 350K+ in debt, and taking on 2500 a month for the next 25 years, to have someone who basically has no debt come here and practice and take home 40K a yr more than you, while they went to school for 4 yrs less?? you went to UBC, you know that undergrad is not a walk in the park and that dental school is tough to get into. I know tons of people who have went to foreign dental schools after f*cking up one year of their undergrad at a cdn undergad. You worked harder than them to get in, you will pick up more debt than they will, and spend more time in school, but they will make the same as you (you will make less actually bc of the debt factor). Having an IDP will put a bottleneck on the number of international dentists to avoid saturation of the industry, which has already happened in many areas (BC has the highest dentist : population ratio in canada already!). An IDP will also ensure that these international dentists are spending the same amount of time in school as us, and not having the same earning potential for 1/5th to a 1/10th of the cost.

Just like the Japanese/European competition has pushed American factories to make better cars.

But what would you know about that...

I hope you'll have to move to EU one day and hit the same resistance, see how it feels like

 

[jay47]

i will tell you why the US should continue to not recognize other countries degrees without an advanced training program: I will be entering dental school after doing an undergrad (4 yrs), I will spend another 4 yrs in dental school (at a cost of 350K). For example, I know many people who will go to India to become a dentist at Manipal. They will incur substantially less debt than me, and will only take then 4-5 years after high school. Regardless of skill, it is not fair to the students of US and Canada that they have to go through 3-4 years more of schooling, and incur hundreds of thousands more in debt + lost income. End of discussion.

FYI, Schooling in the EU is substantially cheaper than the US. Why should we let dentists who studied there for less time and picked up less debt allow to practice here and make the some money?

A very compelling argument. In addition, we have to have all of this extra schooling to make sure that we "know things" that a "doctor" should, for all types of situations that may arise. But I would also say that at a lot of foreign schools, their High school is equivalent to a lot of the courses I took in undergrad. My HS was a piece of crap.

The only flaw of your argument is that not all dental schools cost $350,000. Only the most expensive. You could have chosen a much cheaper route and saved yourself over $100,000 in interest alone.

 

[dmd87]

Just like the Japanese/European competition has pushed American factories to make better cars.

But what would you know about that...

I hope you'll have to move to EU one day and hit the same resistance, see how it feels like

you CHOSE to move here. at NYU, there are TONS of indian dentists in the AP program. do you think they had a gun to their head to come here? Dentists still do well in India as well, and the political situation there is not bad by any means. they came to america bc this is the land where you can make a ton of money, they didn't come here for ****s and giggles. you were the one speaking of greed right? There is nothing wrong with them wanting to make more money than they would being a dentist in their home country, but they are gonna have to jump through hoops and pick up debt like the rest of us.

Btw, I understand that by pursuing dentistry in the US, I will be limited in my practice to US and Canada, and I have thought this out unlike you, who from your posts above, obviously lacks critical thinking skills.


FYI. I am of Indian descent in case I offended anyone.

 

[cadds]

you CHOSE to move here. at NYU, there are TONS of indian dentists in the AP program. do you think they had a gun to their head to come here? Dentists still do well in India as well, and the political situation there is not bad by any means. they came to america bc this is the land where you can make a ton of money, they didn't come here for ****s and giggles. you were the one speaking of greed right? There is nothing wrong with them wanting to make more money than they would being a dentist in their home country, but they are gonna have to jump through hoops and pick up debt like the rest of us.

Btw, I understand that by pursuing dentistry in the US, I will be limited in my practice to US and Canada, and I have thought this out unlike you, who from your posts above, obviously lacks critical thinking skills.


FYI. I am of Indian descent in case I offended anyone.

The DDS licensure process should be based on qualifications, not on the amount of money one spent in school.

Why would I want to do school again , since I was able to pass the very selective CA bench test , which very few of you , US school graduates who are so against foreign graduated dentists, would be able to pass without taking the time to prepare for it?

Do you , the guy in pre-med think that you know more dentistry than me , just because you are at NYU?

I don't think so.

You'll graduate just to do a molar endo in 3 hours

 

[dmd87]

The DDS licensure process should be based on qualifications, not on the amount of money one spent in school.

Why would I want to do school again , since I was able to pass the very selective CA bench test , which very few of you , US school graduates who are so against foreign graduated dentists, would be able to pass without taking the time to prepare for it?

Do you , the guy in pre-med think that you know more dentistry than me , just because you are at NYU?

I don't think so.

You'll graduate just to do a molar endo in 3 hours

I'm not at NYU. I never said you weren't qualified, I'm sure you are highly qualified as are many people that enter the Advanced Placement programs all across the country. But the issue is fairness, and to me, this is a fair check and balance. Passing an exam isn't as rigorous as attending school AND passing the exam. The goal is to ensure that the highest quality is there, regardless of passing an exam or not. It is to ensure that the education requirements are up to par (which I am sure they are), but we need an objective measure and 2 years of schooling is not a big deal, so suck it up and get on with it.

 

[mrlantern]

I'm not at NYU. I never said you weren't qualified, I'm sure you are highly qualified as are many people that enter the Advanced Placement programs all across the country. But the issue is fairness, and to me, this is a fair check and balance. Passing an exam isn't as rigorous as attending school AND passing the exam. The goal is to ensure that the highest quality is there, regardless of passing an exam or not. It is to ensure that the education requirements are up to par (which I am sure they are), but we need an objective measure and 2 years of schooling is not a big deal, so suck it up and get on with it.

Er, no one is taking this thread seriously because she thinks it's right for the US to give licensures to all dentists in the world even though other countries do not recognize US dental degrees. And she's not answering as to how US dentists are expected to pay off their loans if they let every out-of-country dentist get licensure when they want and where they want it. Even right now, many dentists aren't comfortable with their monthly payments. And this is frankly serious. $300-$500k loans with compounding interest. Loan delinquencies are a big reason to why the global economy is in decline.

There is also the talk of making the dental care industry more competitive. Let's be honest. ( you would know if you have private practice experience. Don't try to attack me unless if you've been there for a few years at the very least ) Dentistry is hard even for someone with 30+ yrs of experience. Every dentist has a different way of diagnosing and treating so much that many patients don't trust dentists, and rightfully so. Some dental techniques are not even real science. I know it's something no one here wants to admit but we won't get anywhere if we're not honest with ourselves. It doesn't matter what country you're in. As a profession itself, dentistry has a lot of problems and it's not because there are only few dentists around. Adding more dentists per block won't change any dentist's philosophy of care, handskills, past training, and ethics. If anything, this could lead to a price war that could only be accomplished if dentists cut back on quality lab work,supplies, and time spent with each patient. That doesn't make dental care better. I know that there are sometimes a lack of dentists enrolled in low-paying insurance plans but that's another story and is more about the availability to provide very fast but low-quality care. (i.e. $10-$30 fills )

 

[cadds]

I'm not at NYU. I never said you weren't qualified, I'm sure you are highly qualified as are many people that enter the Advanced Placement programs all across the country. But the issue is fairness, and to me, this is a fair check and balance. Passing an exam isn't as rigorous as attending school AND passing the exam. The goal is to ensure that the highest quality is there, regardless of passing an exam or not. It is to ensure that the education requirements are up to par (which I am sure they are), but we need an objective measure and 2 years of schooling is not a big deal, so suck it up and get on with it.

When you say "Passing an exam isn't as rigorous as attending school AND passing the exam" I agree with you , but after a foreign DDS graduate goes through an ADA accredited residency program , he is MORE qualified than a fresh out of US dental school student, and still that foreign graduate cannot move to any state he wishes to , just like a foreign medical school MD with US residence.


How does it sound to you that if I do a 3 year specialty in perio, if I want to be a hygienist in NY ( for the sake of the argument) , I have to go to hygiene school for 2 years?

It is insane



My main argument is that 25 % of all US practicing MD's are foreign medical school grads , and they are as good as the US MD's.

What do you think about that?



I did not go to the 2 year program , BUT the CA bench test was designed to assure a very rigorous selection.

To get into the 2 year program is a HUGE hassle , 600 people/15 positions and not may US schools have the program. You think is no big deal , but actually it is.



The fact that I am already licensed in CA works AGAINST me if I apply for the program , since they may say "let other people get in , they are desperate to get licensed in the US, you are already practicing in CA"

If things in US go bad (hope not) and you have to move to India and get the same treatment I get here , you'll see how it feels like..

 

[cadds]

Er, no one is taking this thread seriously because she thinks it's right for the US to give licensures to all dentists in the world even though other countries do not recognize US dental degrees. And she's not answering as to how US dentists are expected to pay off their loans if they let every out-of-country dentist get licensure when they want and where they want it. Even right now, many dentists aren't comfortable with their monthly payments. And this is frankly serious. $300-$500k loans with compounding interest. Loan delinquencies are a big reason to why the global economy is in decline.

There is also the talk of making the dental care industry more competitive. Let's be honest. ( you would know if you have private practice experience. Don't try to attack me unless if you've been there for a few years at the very least ) Dentistry is hard even for someone with 30+ yrs of experience. Every dentist has a different way of diagnosing and treating so much that many patients don't trust dentists, and rightfully so. Some dental techniques are not even real science. I know it's something no one here wants to admit but we won't get anywhere if we're not honest with ourselves. It doesn't matter what country you're in. As a profession itself, dentistry has a lot of problems and it's not because there are only few dentists around. Adding more dentists per block won't change any dentist's philosophy of care, handskills, past training, and ethics. If anything, this could lead to a price war that could only be accomplished if dentists cut back on quality lab work,supplies, and time spent with each patient. That doesn't make dental care better. I know that there are sometimes a lack of dentists enrolled in low-paying insurance plans but that's another story and is more about the availability to provide very fast but low-quality care. (i.e. $10-$30 fills )

OMG , thank God that the foreign dentist danger is not a serious threat to the dentists with 500k loans like yourself.


My point is that I am already licensed for a long time in CA , I did not say that just any foreign dentist should be licensed asap in any state.

School was cheaper in EU for me, but I paid too , in the form of higher taxes paid by my parents.

You know taxes are higher in EU countries, that is why the education is cheaper.

So do not tell me I did not pay for school.

 

[Sonny1]

OMG , thank God that the foreign dentist danger is not a serious threat to the dentists with 500k loans like yourself.


My point is that I am already licensed for a long time in CA , I did not say that just any foreign dentist should be licensed asap in any state.

School was cheaper in EU for me, but I paid too , in the form of higher taxes paid by my parents.

You know taxes are higher in EU countries, that is why the education is cheaper.

So do not tell me I did not pay for school.

in other words you didnt pay for ur schooling

 

[cadds]

in other words you didnt pay for ur schooling

My parents paid , but again , what does that have to do with qualifications?

I am saddened to see so much greed and fear of competition among dentists/future dentists.

At the same time , I am glad to see that US graduated MD's are not acting the same way towards doctors from other countries

Looks to me that some dentists are really money hungry.

Wondering how that helps the patients...