Pharmacy Job Market/Outlook

[Rybko90]

It would give you an edge. However, you won't be "completely fluent" in Spanish within a year. I would spend time reading and learning "pharmacy Spanish".

That's a good point. Thanks for the advice. Okay, time to get started!

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[rxgenmillennial]

Hey rederza, no offense taken. That is a good, legitimate question. I wanted a college major that would guarantee a job. I was going to a university that is not expensive, but not cheap either so I felt the pressure to earn a degree that is worth something. If people asked me what I do, I wanted to show that I have a respectable degree. I wanted a profession where my peers would not look down on me, the respect is what lured me. I knew a few well-seasoned pharmacists before I went to pharmacy school and I admired them for their intelligence, hard work, versatility, sharpness, and dignity. From what I saw people all around them would be in awe. Everyone wanted to be them, including myself. Not only that but the pay is good. It is hard to admit it now, but yes a part of the reason I ignored those warnings was because I was a bit ‘greedy’(don’t we all want to make lots of money, be independent, buy our family and friends nice gifts?). I wanted what everyone else wanted and I wanted to beat them to it. Obviously, I did not because everyone can get a pharmacy degree now. Now that I am in this situation I realize that you don’t need to pick a major to impress people, you don’t need to make a certain amount to live successfully (you can live very comfortable with a portion of the salary if you budget), you don’t need to follow the crowd to prove something. As I grew older I realized the prestige and the salary does not matter to me anymore. I wanted respect. I thought I could gain respect by what I do, but it’s not what I do but how I do it regardless of what it is. I wanted the money. I can be rich and successful on any salary, it is all in my perspective. I just want to be happy and not care what others think. There are days where I wonder what my life would be if I chose a different path, something not as stressful, unstable, and arduous. So here I am working for a better day. I hope I answered your question well. Thank you for reading and keep your chin up!

 

[rederza]

Hey rederza, no offense taken. That is a good, legitimate question. I wanted a college major that would guarantee a job. I was going to a university that is not expensive, but not cheap either so I felt the pressure to earn a degree that is worth something. If people asked me what I do, I wanted to show that I have a respectable degree. I wanted a profession where my peers would not look down on me, the respect is what lured me. I knew a few well-seasoned pharmacists before I went to pharmacy school and I admired them for their intelligence, hard work, versatility, sharpness, and dignity. From what I saw people all around them would be in awe. Everyone wanted to be them, including myself. Not only that but the pay is good. It is hard to admit it now, but yes a part of the reason I ignored those warnings was because I was a bit ‘greedy’(don’t we all want to make lots of money, be independent, buy our family and friends nice gifts?). I wanted what everyone else wanted and I wanted to beat them to it. Obviously, I did not because everyone can get a pharmacy degree now. Now that I am in this situation I realize that you don’t need to pick a major to impress people, you don’t need to make a certain amount to live successfully (you can live very comfortable with a portion of the salary if you budget), you don’t need to follow the crowd to prove something. As I grew older I realized the prestige and the salary does not matter to me anymore. I wanted respect. I thought I could gain respect by what I do, but it’s not what I do but how I do it regardless of what it is. I wanted the money. I can be rich and successful on any salary, it is all in my perspective. I just want to be happy and not care what others think. There are days where I wonder what my life would be if I chose a different path, something not as stressful, unstable, and arduous. So here I am working for a better day. I hope I answered your question well. Thank you for reading and keep your chin up!

Thanks. This was really really inspirational to read. After getting yelled at (again) for dropping pharmacy school, I was kinda losing hope. I really wanted to just do what I love, and feel good about myself. Pharmacy made me feel worthless, stupid (I had really really good grades and stats, not a 50 PCAT or 3.0), but most of all I hated it. I didn't like the job. But to my parents, all that matters is money.

 

[fewaopi]

Hey rederza, no offense taken. That is a good, legitimate question. I wanted a college major that would guarantee a job. I was going to a university that is not expensive, but not cheap either so I felt the pressure to earn a degree that is worth something. If people asked me what I do, I wanted to show that I have a respectable degree. I wanted a profession where my peers would not look down on me, the respect is what lured me. I knew a few well-seasoned pharmacists before I went to pharmacy school and I admired them for their intelligence, hard work, versatility, sharpness, and dignity. From what I saw people all around them would be in awe. Everyone wanted to be them, including myself. Not only that but the pay is good. It is hard to admit it now, but yes a part of the reason I ignored those warnings was because I was a bit ‘greedy’(don’t we all want to make lots of money, be independent, buy our family and friends nice gifts?). I wanted what everyone else wanted and I wanted to beat them to it. Obviously, I did not because everyone can get a pharmacy degree now. Now that I am in this situation I realize that you don’t need to pick a major to impress people, you don’t need to make a certain amount to live successfully (you can live very comfortable with a portion of the salary if you budget), you don’t need to follow the crowd to prove something. As I grew older I realized the prestige and the salary does not matter to me anymore. I wanted respect. I thought I could gain respect by what I do, but it’s not what I do but how I do it regardless of what it is. I wanted the money. I can be rich and successful on any salary, it is all in my perspective. I just want to be happy and not care what others think. There are days where I wonder what my life would be if I chose a different path, something not as stressful, unstable, and arduous. So here I am working for a better day. I hope I answered your question well. Thank you for reading and keep your chin up!

Wow pretty impressive and I hope more prepharmers and current students learn from your example about the real job situation becoming much more difficult than before and what's really important in life. Seems like you learned quite a few good lessons that will take you further in life. Good luck to you.

Thanks. This was really really inspirational to read. After getting yelled at (again) for dropping pharmacy school, I was kinda losing hope. I really wanted to just do what I love, and feel good about myself. Pharmacy made me feel worthless, stupid (I had really really good grades and stats, not a 50 PCAT or 3.0), but most of all I hated it. I didn't like the hope. But to my parents, all that matters is money.

You dropped pharmacy? Well as long as you pick something that is stable and pays reasonably well you'll be okay. Money matters but it's more important how you spend money and not just how much you make. You can make $200,000 and spend $200,000 and still be poor. I'm quite happy living on a small amount of money and saving the rest. i don't need so many or want so many useless things to match up with society. A lot of people will own a lot, but they don't have a lot.

 

[mdlando]

I can't believe this either. I have a 98% on PCAT and almost a 3.7 Science GPA and 3.6 overall GPA and I had to bust my ass to maintain those stats. I am disgusted by the notion that I may be in class with people who worked half as hard as I did. But oh well, what can I do.

they are the ones who fail out with 100k debt

 

[speights96]

I can't believe this either. I have a 98% on PCAT and almost a 3.7 Science GPA and 3.6 overall GPA and I had to bust my ass to maintain those stats. I am disgusted by the notion that I may be in class with people who worked half as hard as I did. But oh well, what can I do.

I know you're just making an assumption, but it doesn't necessarily mean they didn't work hard

 

[68quebec]

probably at this moment, it's not too hard to get a job as a pharmacist. However, with this growth rate of new schools every year + increasing number of debts & think about 5 or 10 years from now when new school graduates walk out for job hunting, it will be horrible.

 

[IDontHateYou]

I know you're just making an assumption, but it doesn't necessarily mean they didn't work hard

working hard and performing well are two different things though. A person may study for the PCAT for 5 months and for whatever reason, only obtain a 65. I've heard the stories of this happening to people. Likewise, some people study for 1 month and get a 99%.

Well, I know my previous comment I talked about, "working hard", so I guess this is kind of off topic but just trying to say that performance is what really matters, not necessarily how hard you actually worked.

A person could study for the boards for 5 months and not pass, where as another person can study for 2 months and pass. The board will not care how much you "worked" hard, if you fail, you won't be licensed, period. In my opinion, I agree with some of the doom and gloomer's here that admission should have stayed very competitive and pharmacy probably wouldn't have got as over-saturated to begin with. By this I mean that if you don't have a certain PCAT or GPA above > 3.0 you should be denied. This is just my opinion and I'm sure people with low tier GPA's and PCAT's will disagree. I know for sure that medical doesn't deal with students with certain horrible MCAT scores and GPA's below 3.0 (unless you are well connected or something). Pharmacy schools shouldn't be AS competitive as medical school but they should definitely raise the bar on their admission acceptances. But, these new schools that are opening are only concerned with ONE thing. MONEY. I don't think pharmacy is doomed but I definitely think its hurting the profession.

 

[IDontHateYou]

probably at this moment, it's not too hard to get a job as a pharmacist. However, with this growth rate of new schools every year + increasing number of debts & think about 5 or 10 years from now when new school graduates walk out for job hunting, it will be horrible.

yea... no doubt, it will definitely get worse. New schools are still coming out. But I still think that as long as your willing to make yourself stand out and be VERY flexible with where you will work, you'll ultimately be okay.

 

[68quebec]

yea... no doubt, it will definitely get worse. New schools are still coming out. But I still think that as long as your willing to make yourself stand out and be VERY flexible with where you will work, you'll ultimately be okay.

Your 'very flexible' means willing to relocate, lower salary/wage, have per diem jobs.. correct? I agree with that.

 

[oldstock]

Your 'very flexible' means willing to relocate, lower salary/wage, have per diem jobs.. correct? I agree with that.

I agree w this one too, esp the part about lower wage and per diem jobs...

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

yea... no doubt, it will definitely get worse. New schools are still coming out. But I still think that as long as your willing to make yourself stand out and be VERY flexible with where you will work, you'll ultimately be okay.

It's going to be really tough for newly minted grads from pharmacy school with kids, families, and/or a house to pay off. The one of the very few ways to eliminate student loans is to hop from state to state, most likely starting in bumblef*** USA. Perhaps the grads without such responsibilities can afford to tread such waters, but this lifestyle isn't for everyone.

 

[O.State]

Its a strange trend that things are taking. Can I ask: Why is it that so many schools are opening in the first place? I dont think Ive heard anyone's theories on the above question yet. Now, obviously greed/money is a big factor....but then again, the start up costs of running a school is nothing to sneeze at...

so how come so many pop up within the blink of an eye? Are they being funded by retail chains to drive down wages? ...is there something else involved here?

 

[oldstock]

Its a strange trend that things are taking. Can I ask: Why is it that so many schools are opening in the first place? I dont think Ive heard anyone's theories on the above question yet. Now, obviously greed/money is a big factor....but then again, the start up costs of running a school is nothing to sneeze at...

so how come so many pop up within the blink of an eye? Are they being funded by retail chains to drive down wages? ...is there something else involved here?

Yes, the start up cost of a new schools is not little, not something you and I can do. But for those have money, esp the corporations whose business is in higher education, they can pool to get the money quickly to start a school if they smell the $$$$$ there. Remember higher education is a big business in the US. When you have money, you can make a city pop out from no where overnight.


I think the main reasons that there are many new school opening and more are still in the process of opening are:

-false public perception about the pharmacist job: too easy to make 6 figure + job flexibility / security due to the illusion of the "shortage of pharmacists" thus there are a lot of people still wanting to go for pharmacy schools which creates big demands for the PharmD degree by naive pre-pharmers, esp people who are of subpar academic stats and there is a plenty supply of subpar students who cannot do or qualify for anything else

-schools can charge arms and legs and students still can afford because of easy student loans

-there is little or no risks in the pharm school business - schools always get paid first


in summary, like you said, this endless school opening is simply an old case of greed and money caused by both greedy schools and naive students. Unlike students whose job/$$$$ prospect is in no way guaranteed and more so as more and more pharm schools are flooding the market w new grads, pharm school business / money / profit are almost 100% safe and guaranteed by flood of naive pre-pharmers. It is a great business !!


Have you ever heard of Oldstock University College of Pharmacy ?? Its coming to a neighborhood near you soon... K' ching !!

 

[O.State]

@oldstock thanks. I see your perspective. Am wondering why medical & dental schools dont flourish as extensively

Im still viewing the retail chains/pharma drug companies with some suspicion. That money is coming from somewhere...

 

[oldstock]

@oldstock thanks. I see your perspective. Am wondering why medical & dental schools dont flourish as extensively

Im still viewing the retail chains/pharma drug companies with some suspicion. That money is coming from somewhere...

It already happened with dental schools which caused a bubble which then went burst in the '80-90s. In fact, dental schools are still in the recovery phase from that bursting bubble.

Another case is law school bubble in the 2000s. You can google for dental and law school bubbles. There are plenty of articles for you to read sbout.

Regarding medical school, the bottle neck is the requirement of the completion of a medical residency, without which a new MD / DO cannot apply and obtain a license to practice medicine. Medical residencies are subsidized by the federal government thus limited in numbers due to set budgets. Therefore med schools cannot expand freely if the numbers of residency slots are not increased.

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

@oldstock thanks. I see your perspective. Am wondering why medical & dental schools dont flourish as extensively

Im still viewing the retail chains/pharma drug companies with some suspicion. That money is coming from somewhere...

Dental schools' startup cost and effort is definitely more significant than pharmacy school. Consider equipment, costs, and opening up an associated clinic with a sufficient patient pool for dental students. You are starting to see an expansion of medical schools in the states which isn't happening as quick, but definitely noticeable. They too, have more barriers to cross such as finding appropriate hospitals and institutions that will accept its medical students during rotations. Its preparations must be done to due diligence which will allow students to match into residency, the real ticket to becoming a physician (as opposed to pharmacy school). Statistics can't really be fibbed, either a student matches or don't - this gets published and if the numbers are too low, that school can go on probation or worse. With pharmacy schools, the job numbers they publish is vague. Residencies, per-diem, nontraditional and FT jobs are conveniently lumped into one 'job placement' category so to say the numbers are misleading is an understatement. The licensing exam is also atrociously easy, just look at the high pass rates on the first attempt even by the newly created private schools. In the end, money is the name of the game in the good ol' USA. The system allows money to be made off the uninformed, gullible or desperate prey, if you will. Think: the movie Boiler Room. It's so surprising to me that students make this slippery choice of attending pharmacy programs when information is so accessible and a simple Google search or talking to people in the actual field pretty much lays out the terrible state of affairs In crayon.

Pharmaceutical industries are no less evil than your fortune 500 retail company. Just wanted to add that in there.

 

[fewaopi]

It already happened with dental schools which caused a bubble which then went burst in the '80-90s. In fact, dental schools are still in the recovery phase from that bursting bubble.

Another case is law school bubble in the 2000s. You can google for dental and law school bubbles. There are plenty of articles for you to read sbout.

Regarding medical school, the bottle neck is the requirement of the completion of a medical residency, without which a new MD / DO cannot apply and obtain a license to practice medicine. Medical residencies are subsidized by the federal government thus limited in numbers due to set budgets. Therefore med schools cannot expand freely if the numbers of residency slots are not increased.

i actually think the limited number of medical schools isn't just in the extensive investment they need for construction, hiring, facilities, etc but also because AAMC and AMA make quite an effort to actually limit the number of schools to control the number of graduates in order to control supply and maintain high wages.

pharmacy as a business model is very easy and cheap to run like a fast food chain, which is why some schools just rent a place in an office park and call it a school. it's more profitable, cheaper to run. The documentary college inc provides a good insight for other readers. nursing school is also another example.

 

[IDontHateYou]

Your 'very flexible' means willing to relocate, lower salary/wage, have per diem jobs.. correct? I agree with that.

The notion that you can predict my future... I find laughable at best. Some lawyers make 50K a year and some make millions.... it depends on a lot of factors. I'm not saying I'm going to become a millionaire from pharmacy but you can't predict my future. I may relocate to a great job with benefits and a decent salary. You DONT know that. You are speculating.

Not to mention some people are well connected and know people in the right places. You don't know what connections I have or what connections I will make while in school. Believe it or not, your ability to network and meet people in school can be crucial to finding a job. I just spoke with a pharmacist at my local supermarket (PUBLIX) a few weeks ago and he already has a job waiting for him because he networked all through his 3rd and 4th year and put his self out there. Now he's in his forth year and about to take the boards and he already has a solid retail job waiting for him. He admit to me that it's becoming more difficult, but he also said there are ways around.

I don't like the negativity. I also don't understand how you can predict the future of strangers online that you don't know from a hole in the wall.

 

[oldstock]

The notion that you can predict my future... I find laughable at best. Some lawyers make 50K a year and some make millions.... it depends on a lot of factors. I'm not saying I'm going to become a millionaire from pharmacy but you can't predict my future. I may relocate to a great job with benefits and a decent salary. You DONT know that. You are speculating.

Not to mention some people are well connected and know people in the right places. You don't know what connections I have or what connections I will make while in school. Believe it or not, your ability to network and meet people in school can be crucial to finding a job.

I just spoke with a pharmacist at my local supermarket (PUBLIX) a few weeks ago and he already has a job waiting for him because he networked all through his 3rd and 4th year and put his self out there. Now he's in his forth year and about to take the boards and he already has a solid retail job waiting for him. He admit to me that it's becoming more difficult, but he also said there are ways around.

I don't like the negativity. I also don't understand how you can predict the future of strangers online that you don't know from a hole in the wall.

Pardon me for being ignorant but i did not know one could be a practicing pharmacist before finishing their 4th yr and / or passing the board for licensing ???????

Or you meant hes been there for 4 yrs working at Publix as a pharmacist and only now about to take the board exam ??????

Some new for me to learn everyday indeed

 

[Baller MD]

@PharmDCandidate2014 and @oldstock, you guys are way too nice. No point in telling a bunch of people that pharmacy sucks and will get worse in the near future. Just do you and let people learn from their mistakes.

 

[IDontHateYou]

Pardon me for being ignorant but i did not know one could be a practicing pharmacist before finishing their 4th yr and / or passing the board for licensing ???????

Or you meant hes been there for 4 yrs working at Publix as a pharmacist and only now about to take the board exam ??????

Some new for me to learn everyday indeed

@PharmDCandidate2014 and @oldstock, you guys are way too nice. No point in telling a bunch of people that pharmacy sucks and will get worse in the near future. Just do you and let people learn from their mistakes.

pharmacy sucks? hmm.. okay, I guess your entitled to your opinions.

But I don't know... my big brother is a clinical pharmacist in Georgia and makes over 150,000 a year. I would say he's doing pretty damn good.
Yes. Over saturation sucks.... and it does make things more difficult but to go and say the entire career "sucks".... you sound a bit childish. Just my opinion.

 

[Baller MD]

pharmacy sucks? hmm.. okay, I guess your entitled to your opinions.

But I don't know... my big brother is a clinical pharmacist in Georgia and makes over 150,000 a year. I would say he's doing pretty damn good.
Yes. Over saturation sucks.... and it does make things more difficult but to go and say the entire career "sucks".... you sound a bit childish. Just my opinion.

Indeed, it is MY opinion. Calling me childish because I have an OPINION that differs from yours speaks volumes about YOURSELF.

I have family members who are pharmacists too and they say it SUCKS. Again, this is just an anecdote and just like your example is an anecdote. And we all know how anecdotes are accurate right? NOT!

Why don't you look at the bigger picture instead and see where that actually points you instead of cherry picking your examples.

 

[oldstock]

pharmacy sucks? hmm.. okay, I guess your entitled to your opinions.

But I don't know... my big brother is a clinical pharmacist in Georgia and makes over 150,000 a year. I would say he's doing pretty damn good.
Yes. Over saturation sucks.... and it does make things more difficult but to go and say the entire career "sucks".... you sound a bit childish. Just my opinion.

dang.... I am salivating.... oh, wait, has your brother taken the board yet ?? prob he is still in his 4th yr of pharmacy school, right ?? your bro is the sheetz... lol

 

[oldstock]

Indeed, it is MY opinion. Calling me childish because I have an OPINION that differs from yours speaks volumes about YOURSELF.

I have family members who are pharmacists too and they say it SUCKS. Again, this is just an anecdote and just like your example is an anecdote. And we all know how anecdotes are accurate right? NOT!

Why don't you look at the bigger picture instead and see where that actually points you instead of cherry picking your examples.

well said.

but no point to argue with people who are basing their opinions from "working pharmacists who are in their fourth year of pharmacy school and about to take the board".

You and I still have a lot to learn from him.


Note to myself: The sky is not falling !!!!

In fact, the future of pharmacy is very bright bc there are more and more pharmacy schools going to flood the market w "go getters" who will practice pharmacy as pharmacists in their 4th yr w/o the board and making 150K a year.

WTF !!!!

lol

 

[IDontHateYou]

Indeed, it is MY opinion. Calling me childish because I have an OPINION that differs from yours speaks volumes about YOURSELF.

I have family members who are pharmacists too and they say it SUCKS. Again, this is just an anecdote and just like your example is an anecdote. And we all know how anecdotes are accurate right? NOT!

Why don't you look at the bigger picture instead and see where that actually points you instead of cherry picking your examples.

Okay I'll try that

 

[IDontHateYou]

Indeed, it is MY opinion. Calling me childish because I have an OPINION that differs from yours speaks volumes about YOURSELF.

I have family members who are pharmacists too and they say it SUCKS. Again, this is just an anecdote and just like your example is an anecdote. And we all know how anecdotes are accurate right? NOT!

Why don't you look at the bigger picture instead and see where that actually points you instead of cherry picking your examples.

cherry picking examples? Okay....? Your doing the exact same thing. Cherry picking specific examples of why pharmacy sucks

Who said an opinion can't be childish? I may have an opinion that all chinese people are racist... does that make it a good opinion? All opinions aren't equal. Some opinions are respectful, others aren't. I don't go on medical assistant forums and talk about how much being a medical assistant sucks. Its just... rude.

There are many successful pharmacist. I know of quite a few of them. So what if you have family members who say it sucks? I have family members who love it. I am looking at the bigger picture. Your just looking at the opposite side of the bigger picture.

Coming to a pharmacy forum and saying pharmacy sucks certainly isn't "mature".

Thats like walking into a classroom and saying "teaching sucks". Its ridiculous.

Quite frankly, why do you even bother? Why debate about why pharmacy sucks with a potential pharmacy student? Had it been me, I would have said my piece and kept it moving. Im not going to go to a dental assistant forum and argue why dental assisting sucks... why would I? Im not even a dental assistant! Its my mistake to make (if its even a mistake). Why debate me about it? Not like your paying my loans or anything......

 

[PharmtoCS]

Projected job growth according to the BLS is 14%, or 41,400 pharmacists over the next 10 years. That is about 4,140 projected new pharmacist jobs each year.

About 14,000-15,000 students graduate from pharmacy schools each year. That is over 3 times the number of expected job openings!

 

[oldstock]

cherry picking examples? Okay....? Your doing the exact same thing. Cherry picking specific examples of why pharmacy sucks

Who said an opinion can't be childish? I may have an opinion that all chinese people are racist... does that make it a good opinion? All opinions aren't equal. Some opinions are respectful, others aren't. I don't go on medical assistant forums and talk about how much being a medical assistant sucks. Its just... rude.

There are many successful pharmacist. I know of quite a few of them. So what if you have family members who say it sucks? I have family members who love it. I am looking at the bigger picture. Your just looking at the opposite side of the bigger picture.

Coming to a pharmacy forum and saying pharmacy sucks certainly isn't "mature".

Thats like walking into a classroom and saying "teaching sucks". Its ridiculous.

I am sure they r all in their 4th yr of pharmacy school and about to take the board and making 150K, right champ ??

your posts make a lot of sense now. please !! lol

Projected job growth according to the BLS is 14%, or 41,400 pharmacists over the next 10 years. That is about 4,140 projected new pharmacist jobs each year.

About 14,000-15,000 students graduate from pharmacy schools each year. That is over 3 times the number of expected job openings!

Note to @Baller MD and @stoichiometrist : what do you guys know... you and I should just listen to "go getters". They are the future of pharmacy now. lol

 

[type b pharmD]

Projected job growth according to the BLS is 14%, or 41,400 pharmacists over the next 10 years. That is about 4,140 projected new pharmacist jobs each year.

About 14,000-15,000 students graduate from pharmacy schools each year. That is over 3 times the number of expected job openings!

Yes but also there are probably 6,000 who retire every year too.

So basically if you are in the top half of job seekers you're gonna be OK .. even though that may mean part time or floating or metrics. If you are actually great at the job you will become staff and rxm in a matter of time.

I have held a steady job since the day I turned 14 .. I networked my ass off in school and actually love retail pharmacy, and it shows... I've been out of school for a short time and have had more offers >120k than I could have dreamed of .. it is there for you if you want it , you just have to be ready for intense competition .. Will it be as easy in 4-8 years ? No freaking way, but pay is still going up for talent and at least 50% will be employed , so if you can be in that top half you'll be ok .. if you really have a passion for pharmacy , 120k and full time is just the beginning..

By all accounts there is still a pretty big shortage of skilled pharmacists and managers..

 

[oldstock]

Yes but also there are probably 6,000 who retire every year too.

So basically if you are in the top half of job seekers you're gonna be OK .. even though that may mean part time or floating or metrics. If you are actually great at the job you will become staff and rxm in a matter of time

do you have a source where you got your numbers from ??

so how many full time jobs you say are there annually now ?? unless all jobs now are part time and floating now bc 1 FT job can be magically split into 2, 3, 4 PT jobs or whatever...


mind you we have 14 - 21K graduates annually and increasing...

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

I am sure they r all in their 4th yr of pharmacy school and about to take the board and making 150K, right champ ??

your posts make a lot of sense now. please !! lol






Note to @Baller MD and @stoichiometrist : what do you guys know... you and I should just listen to "go getters". They are the future of pharmacy now. lol

Still trying to figure out how one can simultaneously be a practicing pharmacist and a P4 who has yet to sit down for the licensing exam.

@Baller MD wasn't putting the field of pharmacy anywhere near the context of your examples, @IDontHateYou. It was just mere confirmation of the downward spiral done to the integrity of pharmacy caused by different factors including saturation and greed.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Yes but also there are probably 6,000 who retire every year too.

Would that figure include older pharmacists who are forced out and replaced with young grads?

Will it be as easy in 4-8 years ? No freaking way, but pay is still going up for talent and at least 50% will be employed , so if you can be in that top half you'll be ok .. if you really have a passion for pharmacy , 120k and full time is just the beginning..

Does that mean that the other 50% would be $150k+ in debt and unemployed or severely underemployed? That would make pharmacy a very risky investment.

 

[oldstock]

Would that figure include older pharmacists who are forced out and replaced with young grads?

Ask what position @type b pharmD is working and for what company, so we all can be clear he is speaking on what kinds of biases....

In another word, we do not want someone who is a recruiter for big boxes coming here and encourage people to jump on ship as that is only good for them.

Hint : always check the poster's posting history....

 

[type b pharmD]

Ask what position @type b pharmD is working and for what company, so we all can be clear he is speaking on what kinds of biases....

In another word, we do not want someone who is a recruiter for big boxes coming here and encourage people to jump on ship as that is only good for them.

Hint : always check the poster's posting history....

Haha yes it is great for me to recruit new Rph to the field because frankly the talent pool out there at the moment sucks . And yes I work as a walgreens rxm no need to dig on that one.

My bias is that I want great hard working Rph to enter the field and make my job easier.

Student loans are meaningless. I just signed up for forbearance so I can stop paying until I'm eligible for PAYE . Yeah, I have 400k+ in loans now . I don't anticipate ever paying them off. That said , after going from basically no prospects to top 3% of pharmacist pay through sheer will power , I now have passive income streams and could not be more optimistic about pharmacy or my own future, and so I naturally would love to help encourage others to follow in my footsteps.

 

[Gombrich12]

"Student loans are meaningless. I just signed up for forbearance so I can stop paying until I'm eligible for PAYE . Yeah, I have 400k+ in loans now . I don't anticipate ever paying them off."

There is no reason we as taxpayers should be subsidizing you, your pharmacy school, and walgreens. If it wasn't for a government handout you'd be defaulting on your loans. What is the point of pharmacy schools graduating students that are a drain on government loan programs? The people who truly benefit from this are corporations that want cheap labor.

 

[oldstock]

Haha yes it is great for me to recruit new Rph to the field because frankly the talent pool out there at the moment sucks . And yes I work as a walgreens rxm no need to dig on that one.

My bias is that I want great hard working Rph to enter the field and make my job easier.

Now your posts make perfect sense to me

Student loans are meaningless. I just signed up for forbearance so I can stop paying until I'm eligible for PAYE . Yeah, I have 400k+ in loans now . I don't anticipate ever paying them off. That said , I think it is realistic for me to expect a decent life on 150-200k, and eventually invest more in my side businesses.

You can sign up for forbearance while working and earning a WG rx pharmacy manager / recruiter ?? Wow.

Student loans are meaningless ?? Even 400k is meaningless ?? Double wow. I am sure you will be a fanstatic founding dean for Oldstock U School of Pharmacy. You are truly a talent lol.


Note to myself : To trust a person with this kind of ethics to ever look out for our interests is naive.

But I have no hope for naive pre-pharmers to see that when they are now all "go getters" like @IDontHateYou who could not even tell a pharmacist from a pharmacy student and believe a pharmacy studen can work as a pharmacist w/o yet taken the board and make 150k a year. (Sigh).

 

[oldstock]

"Student loans are meaningless. I just signed up for forbearance so I can stop paying until I'm eligible for PAYE . Yeah, I have 400k+ in loans now . I don't anticipate ever paying them off."

There is no reason we as taxpayers should be subsidizing you, your pharmacy school, and walgreens. If it wasn't for a government handout you'd be defaulting on your loans. What is the point of pharmacy schools graduating students that are a drain on government loan programs? The people who truly benefit from this are corporations that want cheap labor.

You beat me to it !!


But I am still in shock from that post of @type b pharmD ....

 

[Baller MD]

cherry picking examples? Okay....? Your doing the exact same thing. Cherry picking specific examples of why pharmacy sucks

Who said an opinion can't be childish? I may have an opinion that all chinese people are racist... does that make it a good opinion? All opinions aren't equal. Some opinions are respectful, others aren't. I don't go on medical assistant forums and talk about how much being a medical assistant sucks. Its just... rude.

There are many successful pharmacist. I know of quite a few of them. So what if you have family members who say it sucks? I have family members who love it. I am looking at the bigger picture. Your just looking at the opposite side of the bigger picture.

Coming to a pharmacy forum and saying pharmacy sucks certainly isn't "mature".

Thats like walking into a classroom and saying "teaching sucks". Its ridiculous.

Quite frankly, why do you even bother? Why debate about why pharmacy sucks with a potential pharmacy student? Had it been me, I would have said my piece and kept it moving. Im not going to go to a dental assistant forum and argue why dental assisting sucks... why would I? Im not even a dental assistant! Its my mistake to make (if its even a mistake). Why debate me about it? Not like your paying my loans or anything......

Your argument is akin to someone saying law school is a good career option because they know a few people who are successful. Does that mean it is a good option for MOST people? I'm not so sure.

 

[rederza]

Threads like these often get so derailed in one party trying to prove the other wrong. I can only speak from experience. I had a full ride scholarship, and I graduated with a BS bio magna cum lat spring. My gpa was a 3.93. My pcat was a 99. I had good volunteer, leadership here and there, research experience, and decent EC's. I chose pharmacy because I was naive and lazy. Imo, I just wanted to cruise on by, and at the time, going into a program that was touted as "professional" school and has the easiest admission standards I have ever seen (It's harder for me to get into a good state school UNDERGRAD program) seemed like a great idea. I am a gonna be a pharmacist I thought. I am going to make bank and love my job. Here's what I didn't consider, in order of most important:

1. How stupid I would feel. I mean I put a lot of work in maintaining decent grades. Yet here I am leveled out with some barely English speaking recently immigrated student who did a two year cc path way. This was the worst for me. I think I am entitled to feel smart and accomplished. At least a bit. This totally killed my ego though.
2. The true nature of the profession. I was a tech. But reality sinks in, and OH MY GOD, I am busting my ass for the next 4 years, all the while being extorted for it, to land mediocre, terrible environment, high stress job. I am not a pessimist, but I do not suffer from special snowflake syndrome and think I will land a hospital job without residency.
3. If you're gonna put in time and effort and money into a job, you should at least like what you do. And this is why I don't feel right telling EVERYONE to leave pharmacy. Someone has to do it. But it sure as hell won't be me. I don't like it enough or think it's worth my time. But someone can love it, and that's ok too.

Anyways, I have since dropped pharmacy school, and it was not really that hard of a decision to make. Just couldn't see the ends justifying my means.

 

[oldstock]

Schools and pharmacy organizations have been painting rosy pictures about the prospect of pharmacy to enroll more students to fill their seats. They have been saying that they are looking out for students and pharmacists by advancing and expanding the profession with new roles and fill the "shortage of pharmacists" to help patients and the society.

The fact they do not mention or want people to notice is the nonstop opening of schools based on a seemingly immortal "shortage of pharmacists", which is doing no good for anyone but fattening schools and big corporations by capitalizing on expensive tuition and easy student loans. Because of this endless expansion which is flooding the market w more and more grads, there are not enough jobs to support all those new PharmDs. Wages are going down, benefits are being cut, job security is a thing of the past. Working conditions for pharmacists are deteriorating as employers taking advantage of this expansion, esp in retail where most pharmacists are employed, endangering patients' safety. Admission standards and pharmacy training quality are also going down. New grads are out of school owning tons of student loans and have to do more and more years of training in terms of residency and fellowship in order to distinguish themselves enough for jobs. And this situation is only getting worse and out-of-control.

Yet schools want people to believe the opposite of this picture. Because it serves their interests well !!

we all should ask ourselves these questions: are our interests protected ?? what is(are) our game plan(s) ?? and act accordingly

 

[trailerpark]

Can you give a more detailed explanation to why you continued despite all the warnings? Not being snarky or anything, I am truly curious.

He was planning to work hard to differentiate himself?

 

[Dipdoc]

Threads like these often get so derailed in one party trying to prove the other wrong. I can only speak from experience. I had a full ride scholarship, and I graduated with a BS bio magna cum lat spring. My gpa was a 3.93. My pcat was a 99. I had good volunteer, leadership here and there, research experience, and decent EC's. I chose pharmacy because I was naive and lazy. Imo, I just wanted to cruise on by, and at the time, going into a program that was touted as "professional" school and has the easiest admission standards I have ever seen (It's harder for me to get into a good state school UNDERGRAD program) seemed like a great idea. I am a gonna be a pharmacist I thought. I am going to make bank and love my job. Here's what I didn't consider, in order of most important:

1. How stupid I would feel. I mean I put a lot of work in maintaining decent grades. Yet here I am leveled out with some barely English speaking recently immigrated student who did a two year cc path way. This was the worst for me. I think I am entitled to feel smart and accomplished. At least a bit. This totally killed my ego though.
2. The true nature of the profession. I was a tech. But reality sinks in, and OH MY GOD, I am busting my ass for the next 4 years, all the while being extorted for it, to land mediocre, terrible environment, high stress job. I am not a pessimist, but I do not suffer from special snowflake syndrome and think I will land a hospital job without residency.
3. If you're gonna put in time and effort and money into a job, you should at least like what you do. And this is why I don't feel right telling EVERYONE to leave pharmacy. Someone has to do it. But it sure as hell won't be me. I don't like it enough or think it's worth my time. But someone can love it, and that's ok too.

Anyways, I have since dropped pharmacy school, and it was not really that hard of a decision to make. Just couldn't see the ends justifying my means.

Just curious, did you end up applying to med school?

 

[rederza]

Just curious, did you end up applying to med school?

I left after fall semester so its a bit awkward. Im applying now.

 

[NickW9682]

I am currently an intern at a community hospital that is looking for an oncology pharmacist. The hospital is currently 400+ bed and is building an additional tower that will push us to over 600 beds. Send me a message if you are interested.

 

[SelfPharm]

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[deleted390966]

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[rederza]

Thanks for the feeback, everyone. I do think there is significant value that can be realized by completing a PharmD. PharmDs have knowledge/training that is undoubtedly valuable to a variety of different employers, with a good chunk of those employers willing to compensate appropriately for that level of expertise. I think the bigger question is whether PHARMACY will be a viable career in the short term.

Pharmacy school debt is no joke, and people need to eat. It seems like the majority of pharmacists on this board are feeling the pinch from low compensation/high competition to some degree.

Competition and pay in any industry is cyclical though. Pharmacy looks like a bubble right now, but once it bursts, I would think everything would return to equilibrium. The job market sounds tough now, but imagine when the bulk of new graduates enter the feild. When it becomes impossible to find a job, newly minted grads will switch careers en masse. People will be deterred from entering school in the first place if the starting salary drops significantly. The reason that there is an influx in new school/graduates is because there are still positions out there that start at 150,000. Without that incentive, less people will consider pharmacy. Less people persuing the career, less people to fill positions, higher demand for pharmacists, higher salaries, etc. (I'm obviously speculating). Pharmacy looks like its in for a crisis now/in the near future, but I don't think short term issues will necessarily extend to the long term. Or that could just be the delusion talking.

What about thoughts on this: Newer pharmacy schools are big business. The education industry wants to protect its assets for the long term. More money into school coffers means more money spent on pharmacy lobbying and policy changes favorable to pharmacists?

Schools do not care what happens to you after graduation. Their business is the prospective students. As long as students keep drinking the kool aid, schools will be booming.

 

[CogNeuroGuy]

"Student loans are meaningless. I just signed up for forbearance so I can stop paying until I'm eligible for PAYE . Yeah, I have 400k+ in loans now . I don't anticipate ever paying them off."

There is no reason we as taxpayers should be subsidizing you, your pharmacy school, and walgreens. If it wasn't for a government handout you'd be defaulting on your loans. What is the point of pharmacy schools graduating students that are a drain on government loan programs? The people who truly benefit from this are corporations that want cheap labor.

The moral stance you are taking is relative, and frankly, meaningless to many people. You may not agree with this kind of thinking, like many other things we Americans have to subsidize for others and not see the payoff for ourselves, we still do it, and will always be done. If you want to take a stand on "moral" capitalism, you are facing an even bigger uphill battle than someone shuffling off debt. BTW, many professions have the ability to do this, not just pharmacy, it's a way to provide incentive to people to study a profession that has been traditionally and in many respect still is restrained in services being provided to the public and private markets.

Schools and pharmacy organizations have been painting rosy pictures about the prospect of pharmacy to enroll more students to fill their seats. They have been saying that they are looking out for students and pharmacists by advancing and expanding the profession with new roles and fill the "shortage of pharmacists" to help patients and the society.

The fact they do not mention or want people to notice is the nonstop opening of schools based on a seemingly immortal "shortage of pharmacists", which is doing no good for anyone but fattening schools and big corporations by capitalizing on expensive tuition and easy student loans. Because of this endless expansion which is flooding the market w more and more grads, there are not enough jobs to support all those new PharmDs. Wages are going down, benefits are being cut, job security is a thing of the past. Working conditions for pharmacists are deteriorating as employers taking advantage of this expansion, esp in retail where most pharmacists are employed, endangering patients' safety. Admission standards and pharmacy training quality are also going down. New grads are out of school owning tons of student loans and have to do more and more years of training in terms of residency and fellowship in order to distinguish themselves enough for jobs. And this situation is only getting worse and out-of-control.

Yet schools want people to believe the opposite of this picture. Because it serves their interests well !!

we all should ask ourselves these questions: are our interests protected ?? what is(are) our game plan(s) ?? and act accordingly

I still don't get how people will question why groups of people, corporations or just people in general do something to advance themselves or cause at the expense of others. You do realize how our economy functions, right? You think that everyone just runs around with some "Christian perspective" making big bucks on the dime of a major Fortune 500 company but still wants to advocate for small-town traditional values? Can't have it both ways.

Schools do not care what happens to you after graduation. Their business is the prospective students. As long as students keep drinking the kool aid, schools will be booming.

Of course they don't care, again, not surprising. The question is, can you actually be smart enough to utilize this education to your advantage? I really have no sympathy for people who decided to go into a profession thinking that they would escape "real world" behaviors where the rest of us have bosses, rules, drama, wage fluctuations.


Just for the record...I HIGHLY doubt that the cause of influx of more schools and students graduating is because everyone is just so kind-hearted and wanted to help people. I believe that to be some part of it, whether or not it plays a majority part is different for everyone, but you would have to be stupid to believe that the future of earning a 6 figure salary for less education than a physician has to undergo and less competition was not a big piece of the deciding factor as well.

 

[SelfPharm]

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