Yeah I tried to minimize my lack of loans through school and residency.
I suspect that's true of any high earning profession, and honestly I'd bet we are more aware than most of that group on the whole.
Or we are aware and realize the discipline, sacrifice and hard work that we put in that the rest didn’t. We did not live out or youth years carefree in hopes of having something special for us and our families in our middle age.
It depends on what you consider the “real world”. In the region of the US I’m from, the median household income is about $45k...so yes, six figures in that area would make you “rich”, comparatively speaking. This is not a small region either, it spans multiple states and contains about 15 million people.
So, lets say you earn $100,000 in your region with four kids, please tell me if you believe that family is rich?
Serious question: How much poverty do think it directly related to a carefree youth?
I have experience on both ends of this spectrum, having earned both the lower salary as well as the higher and more with more than 4 kids. The six figure plus salary did feel “rich”, because I knew that a busted appliance or a vehicle repair wasn’t going to drain my emergency savings and we weren’t living paycheck to paycheck. We drove nice, newer vehicles and were easily able to pay our bills, fund the kids’ extracurricular activities, help them with college, eat out anytime we wanted, and had several months’ expenses in savings. We lived in a nice home with land and bought all of our driving kids good vehicles...not brand new because of depreciation, but low mileage, great condition.
Indeed. Living within means but having enough left over to pay for emergencies is probably the first most important step. Then, wealth (rich is too meaningless a term) is accumulated through investments. However, if you don't have the means to pay for emergencies in the first place, you can never acquire wealth as there is no money for investments.
I don't know whether I should agree with you or not, but just like you, I was at somewhat both end of the spectrum. ~120k/year combined before med school and now ~60k. I was (or we were) not rich, but boy! we did not have to think when will be our next payday.
This is so important. Did the rest of the population take organic chemistry? Or the MCAT, or the USMLEs, or countless of other high stakes classes/exams sacrificing their entire 20s putting in slave labor while dealing with crippling anxiety with the uncertainty that comes with this training? Anytime you feel badly about how the other half lives, think about that and remember that most other people partied their way through life/college (if they went at all) during this time going into a profession that takes not even 1/10th of the effort.
And there are poor people who work harder, and deal with more stress than we can ever imagine. It doesn't do well to equate work/stress to income, especially in this society, as they are not equal.
Tell me that 'easier' way and I will leave medicine today...
Lol fair point. Medicine is certainly the safest way, you get through school you have a high income job. But you can make more money relatively "easier" through engineering/software dev/finance/running a small business. Hell, I made enough off meme stocks the last 3 months to pay for med school + undergrad debt but that's definitely a 'rarity' situation.
I don't know if people in SDN try to be humble. There was a thread a few months back about the average Joe (aka average IQ) can become a physician. Maybe people in SDN don't interact that much with average person. Or maybe my entourage is not representative of the average. Being a tutor in the past of mostly nursing students, I frankly think the average US citizen is just dumb.
I don't know about business, but I have 3 close friends that are engineers for 10+ yrs.
The average American is dumb but the mental horsepower required in medical school is comically overplayed. There isn't anything hard to learn in med school for boards. It requires many other skills that make it inaccessible for the average American.
To be honest, it sounds like you are really not well informed or are just trolling.
I actually agree that once you get into med school, it's not extremely difficult to make it out, but we are talking about the average Joe here.
Go on...?
Perhaps, but the sheer volume of information and the vast amount of time needed just to pass each stage of training is not something most people can handle. That just goes for med school/residency. What you need to master in undergrad (premed requisite coursework) does require a high level of intelligence/aptitude that not everyone can achieve. For some classes in undergrad (notably organic chemistry, physics, etc) sheer time dedication doesn't always lead to favorable results. And that is just what you need to do to get to the starting line towards becoming a physician.
Anyone who thinks construction or a tradesman with a small business is easy is just misguided. My best friend I hunt and fish with has a small contracting business. His day doesn't end at 4:30 pm. After working on the job, chasing down materials, hitting the punch list at a completed job, looking at new jobs, spending 3 or 4 hrs after dinner doing estimates, is not for everyone. Contractors don't just crack a beer and put their feet up when they get home.
We agree here.
There is pretty much nothing complex about M1 and M2 compared to undergrad coursework. In fact, undergrad usually has intellectually challenging course work by comparison.
Which is great because my experience has been that a pretty decent percentage of doctor's... kinda suck. Not sure if its above the population level of jerks, but I wouldn't be surprised if we were exceptional in that particular regard.
I think many Docs take themselves way too seriously. These are the ones who were gunners in undergrad and worry about prestige of schools or residencies.
I think that is a stretch to say a "pretty decent percentage". Sure, there are those that do suck, but anecdotally saying that s decent amount seems unfair to be honest, unless you have actually come across 100s that actually sucked and can make that statement.
I'd say easily 25% of the probably 100-150 doctors I know are very unpleasant to deal with.
Wow, that's a huge number. Would not want to be at your facility.
This has been across 4 hospital systems. My wife had similar experiences across 2 other ones.
Y'all be rolling your joints in Palmetto fronds is the problem....
But that way our "tobacco" is safe from the British
Absolutely, well said.
It is simply a fact that one's achievements are not solely the manifestation of their own merit. It is also a reflection of their upbringing and other people in their lives. And I'm sorry but you are not convincing me that a household making 10x the amount of income my family does is not "richer."
Good point. And I didn’t mean to disparage against others who genuinely come from underprivileged backgrounds. You are correct that I was mainly referring more specifically to other college educated individuals. No doubt that there are people with far fewer opportunities, but it should be noted that our system does go out of its way to help people from those backgrounds so they have at least some chance to move up.
