I am avoiding the northeast and the west like they are not even part of US (except for vacationing). Any mortgage over $2500/month would give me a headache regardless of how much money I make.
www.zillow.com
Your understanding of competitiveness is very different than mine.
Yeah... Cardio, GI, Hem-onc, PCCM, MFM are competitive fellowship.
I didn't say they are uncompetitive...I said "average" competitiveness to "above average," and excluding "crazy competitive."
Heme/onc median is $496k and 75th percentile is $612K. CCM is $500k 75th percentile which is what I was talking about in my original comment. 75th percentile is not a given or something to expect, but it also isn't "unreasonable" which was my entire point.
a 15 year mortgage is a terrible decision unless somehow you can't beat 5% yearly growth on investments or refuse to use index funds/etfs
I know it's not the best financial decision... I am just someone who hates having to pay bills every month. Even that 15 yrs is a little bit too much for me.
Eh, it is not so black and white. The psychological benefits of completely owning your house in 15 years are hard to quantify. Owning your home brings an immense amount of financial and therefore psychological security to you. Investing and building net worth is not as simple as numbers and equations, as much as I am a stats geek and want to say it is.
Ah, another important point I forgot. You are making a beginner investment mistake which is to only look at annual returns without adjusting for risk. I imagine you fall into the camp of "refinance your student loans to 3%, pay the minimum for 20-30 years, and invest the difference in the market to get an extra 4% in returns" (assuming historical 7% inflation adjusted returns of the S&P 500). The problem with this is that paying your loans off quickly is a guaranteed 3% return on your capital. This gives paying off your loans an infinite/undefined Sharpe ratio (you are dividing by a std. dev. of 0 in the equation so it is technically undefined). You want a Sharpe ratio >1...so infinite is quite good...
or 65 months from 2007-2013 if you are more of an optimist. The troughs were 30 and 17 months during those downturns...so you would also have to wait that long until you even started to see positive returns, let alone a full recovery.
I think people underestimate the benefit of not having a mortgage... It's not only a financial benefit. It just give you some type of stability to the point that it's easier to pursue other adventures...
Dang, I really love my dog but I'm not sure I love her $20,000.
In my opinion, any “rich” country should have its middle class be able to survive 6-12 months of unemployment or a string of unexpected expenses that add up to that many months of salary. I.e. a middle class income should allow the establishment of a 6-12 month emergency fund without a lot of financial struggle. In non-US “rich” countries, your emergency fund can be much smaller because of government assistance during catostriphic life events, such as illness or injury, or non-health related bad luck like getting laid off.
Not really. Get a 30 yr mortgage with a lower interest rate. Then pay extra and pay it off in 15 yrs. If a rough month comes up all you have to do is make the lower regular payment. You pay off in 15 yrs and save lots in interest.
Simple statistical comparison:
dqydj.com
www.pewresearch.org
Don't be pissed! I remember reading somewhere that med students come from family with average household income of ~130k/yr (top 15%), so it's ok for a bunch of us to be out of touch...Simple statistical comparison:
212k is 96 percentileIncome Percentile Calculator for the United States
The income percentile calculator for individual US income in 2022. See average, median, and top 1%. What percentage of earners were you?
243k is 97 percentile
"Family physician total compensation averaged $234,000 per year at the start of 2020, according to the latest Medscape Family Medicine Physician Compensation Report."What family physicians are earning
Family physician total compensation averaged $234,000 per year at the outset of 2020, according to a new report. But how will COVID-19 affect physicians financially?www.aafp.org
Family medicine doctors, which arguably make the lowest salary in the nation specialty-wise, make around 96-97 percentile in the nation and likely have amazing benefits (healthcare, pension, etc.) that are not even offered to most Americans in the US.
Furthermore, according to Pew research
"Pew defines the upper class as adults whose annual household income is more than double the national median."Pew Research Center
A nonpartisan fact tank that informs the public about the issues, attitudes and trends shaping the world.
The national median income is roughly 65k, so a physician likely makes 3.6x that (Assuming the lowest-paid specialty and assuming they do not moonlight or make any additional income on the side)
This is what even pisses me off. My parents made roughly 12-20 thousand dollars a year for my entire life. I was born and raised in a low-income household in the US and was raised in a terrible school district. I struggled in undergrad financially due to limited income and had little to no assistance in medical school. I was in the bottom 3% of med students in terms of income. (Yet I scored far, far above the average in med school)
yet here, people are arguing about the "upper class's definition", trying to argue that if physicians save their money "frugally," they can possibly make it to that level. This kind of lack of insight is beyond ridiculous and why many Americans are starting to become infuriated with individuals who lack the ability to understand they are at the top 96-97 percentile (Assuming the LOWEST specialty) and are NOTHING like the middle class or lower class. Yet, here you are arguing like you are some kind of working Joe barely getting by as a physician. (Even though they would even be defined as upper class)
Physicians make ridiculous profits in this nation, and 2 docs in the family put their kids at a ridiculous advantage in this nation. To deny this at all is exactly why the OP made the post. Its an issue that really needs to be fixed and likely will be with years to come.
Cheers
Let me tell you about this thing called academia..."Family physician total compensation averaged $234,000 per year at the start of 2020, according to the latest Medscape Family Medicine Physician Compensation Report."What family physicians are earning
Family physician total compensation averaged $234,000 per year at the outset of 2020, according to a new report. But how will COVID-19 affect physicians financially?
Family medicine doctors, which arguably make the lowest salary in the nation specialty-wise, make around 96-97 percentile in the nation and likely have amazing benefits (healthcare, pension, etc.) that are not even offered to most Americans in the US.
Simple statistical comparison:
212k is 96 percentileIncome Percentile Calculator for the United States
The income percentile calculator for individual US income in 2022. See average, median, and top 1%. What percentage of earners were you?
243k is 97 percentile
"Family physician total compensation averaged $234,000 per year at the start of 2020, according to the latest Medscape Family Medicine Physician Compensation Report."What family physicians are earning
Family physician total compensation averaged $234,000 per year at the outset of 2020, according to a new report. But how will COVID-19 affect physicians financially?
Family medicine doctors, which arguably make the lowest salary in the nation specialty-wise, make around 96-97 percentile in the nation and likely have amazing benefits (healthcare, pension, etc.) that are not even offered to most Americans in the US.
Furthermore, according to Pew research
"Pew defines the upper class as adults whose annual household income is more than double the national median."Pew Research Center
A nonpartisan fact tank that informs the public about the issues, attitudes and trends shaping the world.
The national median income is roughly 65k, so a physician likely makes 3.6x that (Assuming the lowest-paid specialty and assuming they do not moonlight or make any additional income on the side)
This is what even pisses me off. My parents made roughly 12-20 thousand dollars a year for my entire life. I was born and raised in a low-income household in the US and was raised in a terrible school district. I struggled in undergrad financially due to limited income and had little to no assistance in medical school. I was in the bottom 3% of med students in terms of income. (Yet I scored far, far above the average in med school)
yet here, people are arguing about the "upper class's definition", trying to argue that if physicians save their money "frugally," they can possibly make it to that level. This kind of lack of insight is beyond ridiculous and why many Americans are starting to become infuriated with individuals who lack the ability to understand they are at the top 96-97 percentile (Assuming the LOWEST specialty) and are NOTHING like the middle class or lower class. Yet, here you are arguing like you are some kind of working Joe barely getting by as a physician. (Even though they would even be defined as upper class)
Physicians make ridiculous profits in this nation, and 2 docs in the family put their kids at a ridiculous advantage in this nation. To deny this at all is exactly why the OP made the post. Its an issue that really needs to be fixed and likely will be with years to come.
Cheers
That's not what my concern would be, but you do you
Lots of places still operate as county hospitals and so can get state employee pensions
Yeah... Was kind of shocked to see that pension was offered of a hospitalist gig I am trying to get right now...
Wait who said $100k is upper class in the US and in what # post? That is not true in basically every way you could look at it. I hope no one actually said that and you are being hyperbolic
Simple statistical comparison:
212k is 96 percentileIncome Percentile Calculator for the United States
The income percentile calculator for individual US income in 2022. See average, median, and top 1%. What percentage of earners were you?
243k is 97 percentile
"Family physician total compensation averaged $234,000 per year at the start of 2020, according to the latest Medscape Family Medicine Physician Compensation Report."What family physicians are earning
Family physician total compensation averaged $234,000 per year at the outset of 2020, according to a new report. But how will COVID-19 affect physicians financially?
Family medicine doctors, which arguably make the lowest salary in the nation specialty-wise, make around 96-97 percentile in the nation and likely have amazing benefits (healthcare, pension, etc.) that are not even offered to most Americans in the US.
Furthermore, according to Pew research
"Pew defines the upper class as adults whose annual household income is more than double the national median."Pew Research Center
A nonpartisan fact tank that informs the public about the issues, attitudes and trends shaping the world.
The national median income is roughly 65k, so a physician likely makes 3.6x that (Assuming the lowest-paid specialty and assuming they do not moonlight or make any additional income on the side)
This is what even pisses me off. My parents made roughly 12-20 thousand dollars a year for my entire life. I was born and raised in a low-income household in the US and was raised in a terrible school district. I struggled in undergrad financially due to limited income and had little to no assistance in medical school. I was in the bottom 3% of med students in terms of income. (Yet I scored far, far above the average in med school)
yet here, people are arguing about the "upper class's definition", trying to argue that if physicians save their money "frugally," they can possibly make it to that level. This kind of lack of insight is beyond ridiculous and why many Americans are starting to become infuriated with individuals who lack the ability to understand they are at the top 96-97 percentile (Assuming the LOWEST specialty) and are NOTHING like the middle class or lower class. Yet, here you are arguing like you are some kind of working Joe barely getting by as a physician. (Even though they would even be defined as upper class)
Physicians make ridiculous profits in this nation, and 2 docs in the family put their kids at a ridiculous advantage in this nation. To deny this at all is exactly why the OP made the post. Its an issue that really needs to be fixed and likely will be with years to come.
Cheers
The vast majorit of people, including physicians, couldn’t survive a 12 month of being without a job. It is silly to suggest it. That long without job isn’t that likely in the grand scheme of things. Even with covid, it is utter stupidity to expect people to go without an earned income for so long. You should take a look at consumption and credit in the US. You will notice a few things. People don’t have as much margin as they used to. The average home in the US has nearly doubled in size, the number of cars per household has almost doubled, and business have becomes exceedingly good at extracting money from the public with credit. (Did you that the idea of eating out on A credit Card would have horrified my grand parents when they were my age?)
Every attending physician should have at least a 6 month emergency fund saved and every physician should be able to survive for 12 months without a job, even though it certainly won’t be pleasant. It would majorly suck and is a worst case scenario, but 6 month emergency fund plus 6 months of early withdraw from 401k and liquidating bonds and ETFs (yes, you will pay a penalty on the 401k, that still is better than getting your house foreclosed) makes 12 months. Every physician should be AT LEAST maxing out their 401k from day one of being an attending, and ideally saving at least 15-20% for retirement. Most physicians will also have equity in their house which they could get a reserve mortgage on in a bad situation, as long as the house isn’t underwater.
He could buy half of SC with $3mm!
Should be able to pay that in less ~4 yrs...
The utter stupidity comment was really geared towards governments who think people in “non-essential“ fields shouldn’t work. I didn’t make that clear. I’m sorry. But there isn’t any way that I’m not working for 12 months when I’m able-bodied.
The net pay is after maxing out 401k...Anyway, you can live with ~80k ($6700/month, which is plenty of $$$) and invest 120k/yr.
You probably could pull that off if you really wanted to but your QOL would have to be little different than as a resident.
Yep, you are correct. I misspoke. I should have said lower monthly payment.
120k + (max 401k(x2) + match from company), which might total to ~180k. 8% ROI will get you 2.6 mil in 10 yrs and if we extend by 1 more year, it's ~3 mil.
That seems... unwise. What's your rationale there?
Ah, that makes more sense. And by the best insurance I mean getting right up to the line of over-insured and avoiding junk insurance (e.g. whole life insurance *clown emoji*). But that is just my personal opinion. I am pretty risk adverse and even I agree >6 months in cash/money market is overkill. The only exception would be if your 6 months expenses are a tiny fraction of your net worth, i.e. you spend about $100k a year but are worth $15mm. Not common numbers for physicians, but having $100k in cash would only be 0.6% of your portfolio in cash.
