People with dual physician parents - are you rich?

[Medicine-Man]

For me being its about location:

being poor is not being able to retired, working to be able to eat

middle class - working until at least 60 because cant retire early. But having retirement at least decently.

if you are FIRE, and living comfortably you are rich

this all depend where you live it is easier to do in midwest that nyc

a lot of rich people don't do the RE of FIRE because they like their jobs. But I do agree that Financial Independence is a good indicator of wealth

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[VA Hopeful Dr]

Jesus Christ I don't even know what to say to this... your parents owned a house in a nice area, you went on vacation, drove nice cars, and graduated debt free? That's NOT the typical middle class experience

Maybe not typical, but not exactly rare either

 

[Goro]

Ok people - fess up.

Those with dual physician parents - did you grow up feeling rich? Are your parents paying for all your education (undergrad + med school)? Did you feel like you never saw them since they were working so much?

I assume that most people here don't have dual physician parents, and yet a decent amount may end up with another physician and experience that lifestyle for themselves.

So - what's it like? I'm assuming it didn't dissuade you from pursuing medicine if you're posting here...

In looking at the cars my students drive, absolutely.

 

[MICKY MANTLE]

I didn’t say anything about upper class parents raising their kids poorly.

I am saying that upper class parents tend raise their kids differently, in non-monetary ways, than working or middle class parents.

Not trying to argue the point, but please explain how they are raised differently, like in what area...character, self-respect, decency, morality, just trying to see your point?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

a lot of rich people don't do the RE of FIRE because they like their jobs. But I do agree that Financial Independence is a good indicator of wealth

I agree. Being rich is being able to do what you want and being content. Often, that doesn't require lots of money. What I consider to be wealthy is to be able to fly private and not got through the cattle call at the airport.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

a huge thing that i think is missing from this convo is the ability to not have to worry about surprise bills, think ahead about large expenses, etc. My parents combined income was about equal to (or slightly less than) a single primary care physician salary, and I grew up incredibly comfortable in a wealthy area of southern california. We may not have been as "rich" as some of our physician neighbors, and we didn't do fancy things like buy expensive sports cars or go to private elementary/middle/high school, but surprise expenses were never a concern and fun expenses (travel, activities, etc) could be made without scrimping and saving. Between grandparent and parent support, I was able to finish undergrad at a private LAC without debt (and I have less medical school debt than i otherwise would have had)

People will make very different choices of what to do with their money in terms of actually spending on luxuries or making smart savings choices, but the ability to make it to adulthood without any financial stressors is something that the vast majority of the non-physician population will not have. Dual physician income is easily enough to secure that financial comfort

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I think part of the problem is many people categorize "rich" as meaning "not having to work to maintain their lifestyle". I think overall that's fair but there is a grey area where high income jobs are concerned.

If you have a neurosurgeon pulling down $1 million but who spends $999,000 per year, they technically have to work to maintain that lifestyle but I have a hard time saying that anyone pulling down 7 figures a year isn't rich. Conversely, a family doctor in NYC can likely break 200k but I don't think anyone would call that rich.

 

[jambro]

I think the biggest issue I'm seeing is that people assume "upper middle class" =/ rich. You can be pretty "rich" (very high income) and still be "middle class".

Physicians often have hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, a net-worth of 0 by their mid 30s, sell their time for money, need to worry about retirement, worry about paying for their kids college, etc. Imo these are "upper middle class" problems, not upper class.

 

[jambro]

I'll bite. Both my parents are doctors. Combined income must have been ~600K/yr. I lived the same life as my friends who had engineer parents (~200K). I grew up in a 3,000 sqft house. I got a used car with 70,000 miles on it as my first car when I was 16. When we went out to eat, the family bill would be $80-100 but my parents would cover it without stress.

I went to a public high school with very poor college placement. We had an agreement that my parents would pay for college if I went to state school, so I went and they covered the $100K it took for 4 years. I worked my a$$ off in college. Got the research, held tutor positions for extra income, MCAT prepped on my own with used books + the AAMC material (total cost <$500). Accepted into good medical schools, opted for a lower ranked one that offered merit-scholarship. I'm taking on all the debt for medical school. Once it's all said and done, it'll be less than $150K. I know my parents could pay it in a heartbeat, but from the beginning the expectation has been that I take the debt on myself.

In summary: Money has never been a stressor. We've always been comfortable. My house is decent size in a decent city. I worked hard in college, but I was able to take positions that paid less, then subsequently supplemented my own income with tutoring. It's a nice life, but by no means "rich". Now that I'm in medical school, I'm surrounded by tons of dual-physician kids who went to the elite private high schools to ivy leagues to medical school. Which I cannot relate to at all.

It sounds like your parents lived far below their means. I'm definitely surprised you went to a not-great public school. Your parents probably have a crap-load of money stashed away. Thanks for your input!

 

[softball2344]

Some people when they think rich they think lambos, mansions and summer house at the hamptons. Things that most physicians cant afforded. Thats just for the ultra wealthy

THIS wtf is this thread

 

[Yamatama]

I lived in a rough area where only ~10% of the class went to any college no one went to any ivy league or top schools. I went on roadtrip vacations. I drove a 2004 camry with 70K miles. I am graduating 150K in debt even after getting merit scholarships.

Tell me again how I don't have the middle class experience?

Because at the end of the day, you and your family have a hefty pile of savings to fall back on. Slumming it out with us poors and being frugal doesn’t make you middle class.

 

[jambro]

Because at the end of the day, you and your family have a hefty pile of savings to fall back on. Slumming it out with us poors and being frugal doesn’t make you middle class.

Middle class *experience*. I would bet that someone could have parents who spent all their money and gave their kids something closer to an "upper class experience" (private schools, new cars etc) even though they made less money. They also don't necessarily know how much money their parents actually have, and traditionally "middle class" people can have savings to fall back on too.

 

[Lem0nz]

This thread somehow makes me more annoyed than another midlevel thread.

+1 kudo to OP for being a troll.

 

[jambro]

This thread somehow makes me more annoyed than another midlevel thread.

+1 kudo to OP for being a troll.

I think it's been interesting. What's annoying about it?

For anyone else with dual physician parents, I'm also interested as to whether you felt that your parents worked all the time or that you saw them a good amount.

 

[Lawpy]

Ok people - fess up.

Those with dual physician parents - did you grow up feeling rich? Are your parents paying for all your education (undergrad + med school)? Did you feel like you never saw them since they were working so much?

I assume that most people here don't have dual physician parents, and yet a decent amount may end up with another physician and experience that lifestyle for themselves.

So - what's it like? I'm assuming it didn't dissuade you from pursuing medicine if you're posting here...

I think SDN should stop shaming people who got help from their families.

And i say that as someone who doesn't have physician parents and grew up in middle class household.

 

[The Last Ankibender]

I think SDN should stop shaming people who got help from their families.

And i say that as someone who doesn't have physician parents and grew up in middle class household.

Exactly, whats wrong with helping your kids. I don’t want them to struggle like I did.

 

[softball2344]

I think SDN should stop shaming people who got help from their families.

And i say that as someone who doesn't have physician parents and grew up in middle class household.

Nobody is shaming people because they got help from their families they are shaming people for not even realizing they are rich when they live in a household that makes >400k

 

[MedScat]

I think it's been interesting. What's annoying about it?

For anyone else with dual physician parents, I'm also interested as to whether you felt that your parents worked all the time or that you saw them a good amount.

I saw my Mom more than my dad (he worked two jobs so he came home around 7-8pm) My mom was late often but still busted her butt to get home by 4pm to take me/pick me up from sports and other obligations. She might not have made it to every recital but she did her best. I did get a little jealous when other moms would just "pop in" with some surprise cupcakes or surprise pick their kids up from school early. I always had to take the bus to and from school and once I got older actually had to take cabs home sometimes from dance class. My Dad on the other hand....like I said, not around all that much. It would be a special day for him to come to one of my events. We still have a wonderful relationship as I understand they did this FOR us, not TO us. And now that they're getting toward retirement age, we hang a lot more.

 

[MICKY MANTLE]

Nobody is shaming people because they got help from their families they are shaming people for not even realizing they are rich when they live in a household that makes >400k

Nonsense....you should never shame people over stuff like this. What is going on today that people feel they have a right to shame/bully or whatever you want to label it because they disagree with them. Look at this softball2344 saying the above that "they are shaming people"...why must people do that ?

 

[Dr_feelsbadman]

Yeah... this thread has only reminded me why I never outwardly say both my parents are doctors. Good discussions though

Also re: seeing parents. Both of them would usually be back home between 5-6pm. My dad would leave before I woke up daily. My mom took a pay cut and worked 40 hr weeks so she could get me and my siblings ready in the morning then I'd go to the after-school programs. Seeing them get back early and still have energy is what partially motivated me to pursue this career.

Though my mom tried to convince me to avoid medicine. Typical doctors lol

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Yeah... this thread has only reminded me why I never outwardly say both my parents are doctors. Good discussions though

Also re: seeing parents. Both of them would usually be back home between 5-6pm. My dad would leave before I woke up daily. My mom took a pay cut and worked 40 hr weeks so she could get me and my siblings ready in the morning then I'd go to the after-school programs. Seeing them get back early and still have energy is what partially motivated me to pursue this career.

Though my mom tried to convince me to avoid medicine. Typical doctors lol

I'll never understand that. My wife and I are both physicians and we'd love it if our kids went into medicine.

 

[jambro]

Yeah... this thread has only reminded me why I never outwardly say both my parents are doctors. Good discussions though

Also re: seeing parents. Both of them would usually be back home between 5-6pm. My dad would leave before I woke up daily. My mom took a pay cut and worked 40 hr weeks so she could get me and my siblings ready in the morning then I'd go to the after-school programs. Seeing them get back early and still have energy is what partially motivated me to pursue this career.

Though my mom tried to convince me to avoid medicine. Typical doctors lol

are you thinking about pursuing either of your parents specialties? Would also be interested in what they were if you were open to it.

Kid pursuing parents specialty is a good sign for the specialty IMO

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I guess the point of this thread was to provide lively discussion. It has, and has been pretty respectful for the most part. What this always comes down to is equal opportunity vs equal outcome. For those who put themselves through college and med school, like myself, it's a matter of setting goals and achieving them. Whether you are a URM or from the top 1%, the path to med schools remains the same. Academic excellence, a desire for a life of service to your fellow human beings, and a willingness to pay the price of achieving the high standards required to becoming a physician. Medicine, like football, is not for everyone. Plenty of strong, fast athletes don't want to play, or are just really bad at it. Same as lots of very smart people don't want to pay the price to be a doctor, or would be terrible at it. Its unrealistic to believe everyone would want to follow the path to becoming a physician. Many folks are quite content with their job with the US Postal service. Shaming anyone for their backround on social media merely diminishes the person doing the shaming. The path is there for everyone. Does the person have the character to stay on the path? It can be done, my wife and I are examples of this. Complaining about it being easier for someone else is irrelevant. It will do nothing to enhance your chances of a med school admission. Run your own race, and focus on the prize.

 

[odyssey2]

I don’t think anyone should be shamed for having wealthy parents, I think it’s cute more than anything when they call themselves middle class.

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

I don’t think anyone should be shamed for having wealthy parents, I think it’s cute more than anything when they call themselves middle class.

It shows a lack of perspective. I had someone who claimed to be "middle class" but was confused about why I had debt from undergrad, and why my parents didn't help me.

 

[Frogger27]

It shows a lack of perspective. I had someone who claimed to be "middle class" but was confused about why I had debt from undergrad, and why my parents didn't help me.

Tbh debt from undergrad is not a good metric of being middle class. There are plenty of people from middle class families who graduate undergrad with minimal debt due to parental support. That is up to the parents and their priorities when it comes to saving/what they choose to spend money on.

My parents probably made ~100k annually combined in a large mid western city. They saved for all 3 of their children’s college fund starting from the day we were born. They sacrificed family vacations, birthday presents, and their own personal pleasures because to them (immigrant family) getting their children a debt free college education was of the upmost priority to them and in their mind the best way to ensure future generational success

But yes, that person does have a lack of perspective. I know I am incredibly privileged and indebted to my parents for their sacrifices/the opportunity they provided me. I would absolutely not call my family rich because they graduated 3 kids from college with no debt. Upper middle class? Sure, but definitely not rich.

 

[Lawpy]

It shows a lack of perspective. I had someone who claimed to be "middle class" but was confused about why I had debt from undergrad, and why my parents didn't help me.

What if someone got a full ride to college?

 

[DoctwoB]

I think part of the disconnect also comes from time and era. Wen I think of middle class in post-war america, I typically think of smallish house in the burbs, kids in decent public schools, and going to college +/- some debt or working a job, which could cover your tuition or living expenses, and some retirement security with a pension or alternative. This was typically achievable on a single blue or white collar salary.

It's a different world now. Real estate is more expensive even adjusting for inflation. College is MUCH more expensive adjusting for inflation. Realistically the middle class now is either renting or buying a home but borderline on having savings after that, retirement savings are iffy/variable, college is financed by a lot of debt (and good luck even making a dent in that with a student job), and this is often with both parents working.

The vast majority of doctors fall into the upper middle class. Not worrying about day to day bills, can save for their kids college and their retirement, can splurge in some (but not all) areas of life including things like nice cars or more home then needed or expensive hobbies. Is that rich? compared to the current middle class yes, we have the privilege of not worrying about most bills. But rich is a binary construct and as such not a great way to measure it. I think the middle, upper middle, upper class aspect captures it a lot better and doctors are solidly upper middle.

 

[Dr.SPAC3MAN]

I don’t think anyone should be shamed for having wealthy parents, I think it’s cute more than anything when they call themselves middle class.

Its no more a person's fault that they were born into a wealthy fam than it is for those who were born into a poor family.

 

[jambro]

I think part of the disconnect also comes from time and era. Wen I think of middle class in post-war america, I typically think of smallish house in the burbs, kids in decent public schools, and going to college +/- some debt or working a job, which could cover your tuition or living expenses, and some retirement security with a pension or alternative. This was typically achievable on a single blue or white collar salary.

It's a different world now. Real estate is more expensive even adjusting for inflation. College is MUCH more expensive adjusting for inflation. Realistically the middle class now is either renting or buying a home but borderline on having savings after that, retirement savings are iffy/variable, college is financed by a lot of debt (and good luck even making a dent in that with a student job), and this is often with both parents working.

The vast majority of doctors fall into the upper middle class. Not worrying about day to day bills, can save for their kids college and their retirement, can splurge in some (but not all) areas of life including things like nice cars or more home then needed or expensive hobbies. Is that rich? compared to the current middle class yes, we have the privilege of not worrying about most bills. But rich is a binary construct and as such not a great way to measure it. I think the middle, upper middle, upper class aspect captures it a lot better and doctors are solidly upper middle.

Completely agree with you. The super sad thing is when we talk about what makes physicians "rich" it really seems like these are things that used to be achievable by the average person back in the day.

Having kids without burdening them with debt, owning a house, taking vacations, retiring securely is "upper class"? Damn things are bad nowadays. More a function of how crappy everything is for others rather than how great it is for physicians and the rest of the upper middle class.

I'd argue that you need to be "rich" (upper middle class) in america to afford the same privileges that the lower middle class have in other developed countries (and they still have it better in many ways).

 

[Yankee845]

Also a dual physician child.

Probably by conventional definitions we are/were, but my parents have always used to the term "upper middle class" which I like better too. Parents had no problem paying for myself and two siblings to undergo 8 years of post high school education. My parents had me and and my siblings early in their career (beginning of residency/fellowship) and during that time we had a full time nanny. But I've seen them everyday of my childhood that I can remember and their work schedules did not impact their ability to raise a family in any way.

Was also brought up to live frugally and not in an extravagant way once you become a physician/have access to money. This is is probably the biggest difference I've noticed among myself/other classmates from similar backgrounds and those with less resources. For some reason, people from lower income families have these dreams of living in a big mansion and owning a sports car as if people actually respect you and look up to you for flaunting your wealth.

 

[softball2344]

Its no more a person's fault that they were born into a wealthy fam than it is for those who were born into a poor family.

Literally nobody is saying someone who is born into a wealthy family is at 'fault' for that. You'd be a ***** not to wish to be born into a wealthy vs non-wealthy family. I am personally just saying someone born into a wealthy family should realize it by our age

 

[Yankee845]

Literally nobody is saying someone who is born into a wealthy family is at 'fault' for anything. I am personally just saying someone born into a wealthy family should realize it by our age

No you are implying that people born into wealthy families need to prostrate themselves to others and act like them having money (or rather their family members having money) is a negative quality that requires a certain level of atonement. We are not all born equal, yet some people insist that those from upper class backgrounds need to proclaim their "privilege" as a means to make others with less feel better about themselves.

 

[Yankee845]

Oh well I don't fall into that camp lol in general I think people from well-off backgrounds are more successful on average in part because they are smarter on average because they have been learning way more from a young age (because of better schools, better support, etc) and you can't get that time back. Of course there are MANY MANY MANY exceptions. But yea lowering standards for admissions and stuff based on background is kinda controversial IMO. I still think its nice if people are aware of how lucky they are though

Everyone who has money or access to it knows it. But there are a very significant number of people I've met over the years in college/med school who think that because of our backgrounds, it's almost as if we didn't really earn our degree/career. I wonder how would you would feel if your children get treated like that one day.

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

Tbh debt from undergrad is not a good metric of being middle class. There are plenty of people from middle class families who graduate undergrad with minimal debt due to parental support. That is up to the parents and their priorities when it comes to saving/what they choose to spend money on.

My parents probably made ~100k annually combined in a large mid western city. They saved for all 3 of their children’s college fund starting from the day we were born. They sacrificed family vacations, birthday presents, and their own personal pleasures because to them (immigrant family) getting their children a debt free college education was of the upmost priority to them and in their mind the best way to ensure future generational success

But yes, that person does have a lack of perspective. I know I am incredibly privileged and indebted to my parents for their sacrifices/the opportunity they provided me. I would absolutely not call my family rich because they graduated 3 kids from college with no debt. Upper middle class? Sure, but definitely not rich.

What if someone got a full ride to college?

It's the fact that they asked "why didn't your parents help" as if it were a given.

My point was it was someone calling themselves "middle class" when the wealth they grew in caused them to lack any perspective, and they were far removed from middle class. I doubt anyone genuinely in the middle class would be absolutely dumbfounded that some people have to pay for school on their own.

 

[Splenda88]

If you can afford to pay a full time nanny to watch your kids, you are rich. You might not be wealthy, but you are rich

Before med school, my spouse and I combined income were ~120k/yr... We were able to afford almost everything to a certain extent. My kids were able to participate in all kind of ECs, we were able to take 1-2 vacation per year, while living in an average COL area.

I cant' imagine making 400k/yr--bringing home 17-18k/month after taxes. If having a 7-10k disposable income does not making one rich, I don't what definition of rich is. Of course, you are not wealthy, but you are freaking rich.

 

[ACSurgeon]

in my opinion, most physicians *could become* rich by their 40s

Fixed that for you... it’s not a given. Life is expensive and it’s easy to waste money. With some discipline and planning, it’s doable.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

If you can afford to pay a full time nanny to watch your kids, you are rich. You might not be wealthy, but you are rich

Before med school, my spouse and I combined income were ~120k/yr... We were able to afford almost everything to a certain extent. My kids were able to participate in all kind of ECs, we were able to take 1-2 vacation per year, while living in an average COL area.

I cant' imagine making 400k/yr--bringing home 17-18k/month after taxes. If having a 7-10k disposable income does not making one rich, I don't what definition of rich is. Of course, you are not wealthy, but you are freaking rich.

5 years ago, we paid the nanny around 2200/month. Day care for the kids was costing us 1900/month. And this was the regular day care in the area, nothing fancy.

And we managed this when my wife was the sole breadwinner earning around 220k/year, which I'm not sure qualifies as rich. It's all about low COL.

 

[Splenda88]

5 years ago, we paid the nanny around 2200/month. Day care for the kids was costing us 1900/month. And this was the regular day care in the area, nothing fancy.

And we managed this when my wife was the sole breadwinner earning around 220k/year, which I'm not sure qualifies as rich. It's all about low COL.

I don't think 220k/yr makes you rich, but 400k+ does...

 

[MICKY MANTLE]

If you can afford to pay a full time nanny to watch your kids, you are rich. You might not be wealthy, but you are rich

Before med school, my spouse and I combined income were ~120k/yr... We were able to afford almost everything to a certain extent. My kids were able to participate in all kind of ECs, we were able to take 1-2 vacation per year, while living in an average COL area.

I cant' imagine making 400k/yr--bringing home 17-18k/month after taxes. If having a 7-10k disposable income does not making one rich, I don't what definition of rich is. Of course, you are not wealthy, but you are freaking rich.

"If you can afford to pay a full time nanny to watch your kids, you are rich. You might not be wealthy, but you are rich"

Totally inaccurate statement....Poor/middle class do this every day so they can earn a living even though they are forced to pay for child care, which at the end of the day may not mean a lot left over from their income, but they have no other choice......would you rather they leave their children home alone?. You really sound like you have no idea.

If you are referencing a live-in nanny with chefs and the like, that is totally different and likely would require high incomes to afford that and yes, then you are probably "rich."

 

[LimpSpatula]

Maybe not typical, but not exactly rare either

It is becoming increasingly rare. The middle class is quickly eroding. This thread is interesting because while having a dual physician income may be considered rich in people’s parents , salaries not keeping up with inflation is going to ensure physicians will be middle class. If you want to be “well off”, and you’re not already, start investing in undergrad.

 

[ArdorAyurveda]

I might not be rich, but I'll do anything in my power to afford this Nanny... surely my wife would approve...

 

[Dr.SPAC3MAN]

Literally nobody is saying someone who is born into a wealthy family is at 'fault' for that. You'd be a ***** not to wish to be born into a wealthy vs non-wealthy family. I am personally just saying someone born into a wealthy family should realize it by our age

It is not right to shame people for the family they were born into. rich or poor. I said that because some people believe it is ok to shame people for being born into wealthy households, which is the post I responded to.

... and true? I didn't comment anything about acknowledging or recognizing wealth.

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

5 years ago, we paid the nanny around 2200/month. Day care for the kids was costing us 1900/month. And this was the regular day care in the area, nothing fancy.

And we managed this when my wife was the sole breadwinner earning around 220k/year, which I'm not sure qualifies as rich. It's all about low COL.

That's 4.1k/mo on additional child-rearing services. 49k a year. 50% higher than the median income in the US. The ability to do that I count as rich (and would consider a household income of 220k as rich as well, that's 3x the income my household of 6 had growing up in NYC and I considered myself middle/lower-middle class).

This is of course just my opinion.

 

[jambro]

I don't think 220k/yr makes you rich, but 400k+ does...

This is it in a nutshell. As someone will will almost assuredly make 220k/year, you wouldn't be rich. But someone making 400k (which you might not), definitely rich. And you might think 220 is upper middle class but 400 isn't.

No different than layperson saying an academic pediatrician in boston is obviously rolling in it and not middle-class like them. All relative.

 

[Yankee845]

If you can afford to pay a full time nanny to watch your kids, you are rich. You might not be wealthy, but you are rich

Before med school, my spouse and I combined income were ~120k/yr... We were able to afford almost everything to a certain extent. My kids were able to participate in all kind of ECs, we were able to take 1-2 vacation per year, while living in an average COL area.

I cant' imagine making 400k/yr--bringing home 17-18k/month after taxes. If having a 7-10k disposable income does not making one rich, I don't what definition of rich is. Of course, you are not wealthy, but you are freaking rich.

I recommend you do some research and look up the definition of what defines being "rich" or upper class in this country. Most doctors do not fall under this categorization, and certainly making $220k or even $500k a year would not put you in this category (especially those living in big cities where cost of living is high). It is obviously subjective, but most sociologists/economists define people in this category to have a majority of their income coming from assets, investments and capital gains rather than wages and salaries.

"Many heirs to fortunes, top business executives, CEOs, successful venture capitalists, persons born into high society, and celebrities may be considered members of the upper class. Some prominent and high-rung professionals may also be included if they attain great influence and wealth. The main distinguishing feature of this class, which includes an estimated 1% of the population, is the source of income. While the vast majority of people and households derive their income from wages or salaries, those in the upper class derive their primary income from investments and capital gains"

Perhaps a physician who lives frugally and saves a majority of their income over many years can eventually reach this point over many years of practice. Of course we know from human nature that most people don't live like that and enjoy spending money as soon as they get it.

 

[Medicine-Man]

I recommend you do some research and look up the definition of what defines being "rich" or upper class in this country. Most doctors do not fall under this categorization, and certainly making $220k or even $500k a year would not put you in this category (especially those living in big cities where cost of living is high). It is obviously subjective, but most sociologists/economists define people in this category to have a majority of their income coming from assets, investments and capital gains rather than wages and salaries.

"Many heirs to fortunes, top business executives, CEOs, successful venture capitalists, persons born into high society, and celebrities may be considered members of the upper class. Some prominent and high-rung professionals may also be included if they attain great influence and wealth. The main distinguishing feature of this class, which includes an estimated 1% of the population, is the source of income. While the vast majority of people and households derive their income from wages or salaries, those in the upper class derive their primary income from investments and capital gains"

Perhaps a physician who lives frugally and saves a majority of their income over many years can eventually reach this point over many years of practice. Of course we know from human nature that most people don't live like that and enjoy spending money as soon as they get it.

"That group of upper class households had a median income of $187,872. In order to be considered "upper class," a household must earn over double the median household income. -Dec 9, 2019"

Upper class is not the same thing as the 1%, according to the vast majority of americans. Otherwise middle class would be 98% of the population??

 

[jambro]

"That group of upper class households had a median income of $187,872. In order to be considered "upper class," a household must earn over double the median household income. -Dec 9, 2019"

Upper class is not the same thing as the 1%, according to the vast majority of americans. Otherwise middle class would be 98% of the population??

I'm not sure how many sociologists would agree with the 2x median income = "upper class". That seems pretty ridiculous and doesn't account for net-worth or social standing at all. Someone making 2x the median income is infinitely closer to the middle class than someone who doesn't have to work for a living or was born into wealth etc.

Perhaps a physician who lives frugally and saves a majority of their income over many years can eventually reach this point over many years of practice. Of course we know from human nature that most people don't live like that and enjoy spending money as soon as they get it.

This is exactly my plan. High W2 earnings coming directly from your time is the least-efficient way of being "rich". Gotta use the earnings to invest in equities and purchase real estate so you can benefit from the rigged system like all the rest of the upper class.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I recommend you do some research and look up the definition of what defines being "rich" or upper class in this country. Most doctors do not fall under this categorization, and certainly making $220k or even $500k a year would not put you in this category (especially those living in big cities where cost of living is high). It is obviously subjective, but most sociologists/economists define people in this category to have a majority of their income coming from assets, investments and capital gains rather than wages and salaries.

"Many heirs to fortunes, top business executives, CEOs, successful venture capitalists, persons born into high society, and celebrities may be considered members of the upper class. Some prominent and high-rung professionals may also be included if they attain great influence and wealth. The main distinguishing feature of this class, which includes an estimated 1% of the population, is the source of income. While the vast majority of people and households derive their income from wages or salaries, those in the upper class derive their primary income from investments and capital gains"

Perhaps a physician who lives frugally and saves a majority of their income over many years can eventually reach this point over many years of practice. Of course we know from human nature that most people don't live like that and enjoy spending money as soon as they get it.

Of course being rich is subjective. I met a cleaning lady doing our condo that we had rented for a med conference from Russia. She was beaming that she immigrated to America and was now Rich!. She pointed out she had an apartment, air conditioning and a microwave. She was so proud. Kind of puts things in perspective when in America people complain, not about opportunity, but that someone else has it easier. The only thing stopping someone from being rich in America is themselves. And the definition of rich is not what some economist or someone demagoging class warfare tells me it is. It's a very personal thing.

 

[Yankee845]

This is exactly my plan. High W2 earnings coming directly from your time is the least-efficient way of being "rich". Gotta use the earnings to invest in equities and purchase real estate so you can benefit from the rigged system like all the rest of the upper class.

Exactly. And this achievable after you are in practice for 2 decades if you spend your money wisely. Unfortunately most physicians, even those who come from dual physician households don't do this and never reach a point where their savings can essentially earn for them. I even met a few attendings while I was a medical student who I had gotten close to tell me that they were in debt because of their lavish spending habits. I certainly wouldn't consider them rich.