People have given up on the quarantine.

[M0df]

So ya, some states, countries, localities use narrow or broad criteria. It won't make me feel any better that there are 4 times as many deaths from strokes and heart attacks if they reclassified the numbers. Now you might have 1/2 covid dead but a lot more from stroke year to year.

---

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[DagS132]

Okay so let me break it down for you.

Only question I asked was, "why do we not distinguish death by covid19 vs death with covid19?"

@BMBiology , for whatever reason, asked, "why is there a spike in NY?"

He is now claiming that I don't know anything because I do not have an answer for why a respiratory virus is spreading in one of the most dense cities in the world...

The question BmBiology is asking is related to your question though. I think this is where you are having a hard time conversing with everyone here.
Honestly to me, it sounds like you are trying to say this is just a huge coincidence and the number of covid related deaths is actually so low to the point where we need to focus on what is actually killing us this fast this year(are you a conspiracy theorist? Government is killing us?). Which is wild.

 

[BMBiology]

The question BmBiology is asking is related to your question though. I think this is where you are having a hard time conversing with everyone here.

Exactly. His question is dismissive and call into question as to the severity of this virus. He refuses to acknowledge the spike in death is caused by covid19 because it contradicts what he is saying.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Because we are in a pandemic. You think doctors should spend their time debating?

You have been speculating throughout this thread. Now all of the sudden you can’t speculate as to why there is a spike in death.

The spike in death tells you how this virus has impacted our society. That is not debatable.

Yeah don’t let facts get in the way right?

What facts? Why is it so wrong to ask a question?



You didn't read anything I posted, have you? When did I speculate on this? I was questioning based on this video and other sources I posted.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Exactly. His question is dismissive and call into question as to the severity of this virus but he refuses to acknowledge the spike in death is caused by covid19.

Wanna answer why they're not distinguishing death by covid19 vs death with covid19?

 

[DagS132]

What facts? Why is it so wrong to ask a question?...

Its ironic you ask that when people are asking you questions about your question.

Wanna answer why they're not distinguishing death by covid19 vs death with covid19?

What if someone answered with, "because we can't tell if the virus complicated their pre-existing health conditions and pushed them over the edge or if it was the virus that killed them." How would you respond after this?

 

[PharmtoCS]

Please cite source. Otherwise, you're just spreading false info and fear.

UpToDate

www.uptodate.com

Hypercoagulable state – A number of changes in circulating prothrombotic factors have been reported or proposed in patients with severe COVID-19 [3,4]:
•Elevated factor VIII
•Elevated fibrinogen
•Circulating prothrombotic microparticles
•Neutrophil extracellular traps (NETs)

Very elevated levels of D-dimer have been observed that correlate with illness severity; D-dimer is a degradation product of cross-linked fibrin indicating augmented thrombin generation and fibrin dissolution by plasmin. However, high D-dimer levels are common in acutely ill individuals with a number of infectious and inflammatory diseases. Likewise, antiphospholipid antibodies, which can prolong the activated partial thromboplastin time (aPTT), are common in viral infections, but they are often transient and do not always imply an increased risk of thrombosis. (See 'Coagulation abnormalities' below and 'Clinical features' below.)

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

The question BmBiology is asking is related to your question though. I think this is where you are having a hard time conversing with everyone here.
Honestly to me, it sounds like you are trying to say this is just a huge coincidence and the number of covid related deaths is actually so low to the point where we need to focus on what is actually killing us this fast this year(are you a conspiracy theorist? Government is killing us?). Which is wild.

Everyone? there is about four of you that's just asking all these weird questions and making wild accusations when all I asked was death by covid19 vs death with covdi19 question. You're not that important. You are not everyone nor do you represent everyone. That sounds highly condescending and narcissistic. Yes, if you're both, I can't talk to you.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Its ironic you ask that when people are asking you questions about your question.

There is nothing wrong with asking the question, "why is there a spike in NYC?" Which I answered "I don't know". But how is that related to my question?

 

[DagS132]

Everyone? there is about four of you that's just asking all these weird questions and making wild accusations when all I asked was death by covid19 vs death with covdi19 question. You're not that important. You are not everyone nor do you represent everyone. That sounds highly condescending and narcissistic. Yes, if you're both, I can't talk to you.

Why did you take the word "everyone" so literally? If there are only 4 people talking to you and all 4 of those people are included in some category, that is literally(ironically) "everyone" that is talking to you. Why are you strawman argumenting? I sense insecurity

There is nothing wrong with asking the question, "why is there a spike in NYC?" Which I answered "I don't know". But how is that related to my question?

Gee I don't know. Maybe because your question implies the virus actually has significantly lower death rate while at the same time not understanding why death rate has risen? I dunno tho.....

Maybe elaborate further on your question. Like answering it yourself and telling us what you actually think is going on. You are baiting us to give you the answer you want so go ahead and just say what you think is actually happening.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Why did you take the word "everyone" so literally? If there are only 4 people talking to you and all 4 of those people are included in some category, that is literally "everyone" that is talking to you. Why are you strawman argumenting? I sense insecurity

Insure huh? You're just validating my point that you're condescending. How ironic.

Here is my very insure question.

Why do they not distinguish death by covid19 vs death with covid19?

 

[DagS132]

Insure huh? You're just validating my point that you're condescending. How ironic.

Here is my very insure question.

Why do they not distinguish death by covid19 vs death with covid19?

...What if someone answered with, "because we can't tell if the virus complicated their pre-existing health conditions and pushed them over the edge or if it was the virus that killed them." How would you respond after this?

Also, I'm not the one calling people a ****** and narcissistic in this thread. So again, ironic you call me condescending.

 

[deleted480308]

Employed physicians rarely do so. We are way better off reporting it (see: whistleblower payouts).

If I commit fraud I might make a few hundred K best case. If I whistleblow, I can make millions.

I keep praying i end up at a hospital with CRAZY crooked billing practice.

whistleblow = LAMBO.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Right. That would be your speculation. We don't have an official statement from anyone about why we don't distinguish?

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Why did you take the word "everyone" so literally? If there are only 4 people talking to you and all 4 of those people are included in some category, that is literally(ironically) "everyone" that is talking to you. Why are you strawman argumenting? I sense insecurity


Gee I don't know. Maybe because your question implies the virus actually has significantly lower death rate while at the same time not understanding why death rate has risen? I dunno tho.....

Maybe elaborate further on your question. Like answering it yourself and telling us what you actually think is going on. You are baiting us to give you the answer you want so go ahead and just say what you think is actually happening.

I. DO. NOT. KNOW. lol man it's like talking to a wall. You remind me of a girl I used to know. She would just argue over and over about what she thinks and would not listen to anything anyone else would say. I don't know why there is higher death rate in new york. I am not baiting anyone. I am simply asking the question because it doesn't make sense that people would not distinguish the two.

My question does not imply anything. It is based on the video I posted and other sources I posted previously. Did you even watch the video?

 

[DagS132]

I. DO. NOT. KNOW. lol man it's like talking to a wall. You remind me of a girl I used to know. She would just argue over and over about what she thinks and would not listen to anything anyone else would say. I don't know why there is higher death rate in new york. I am not baiting anyone. I am simply asking the question because it doesn't make sense that people would not distinguish the two.

My question does not imply anything. It is based on the video I posted and other sources I posted previously. Did you even watch the video?

Did you read any of my posts because i answer you twice(why did you say "I dont know" again when I didn't ask the same question). Are you projecting with that story?
Also, condescending much?

 

[BMBiology]

I. DO. NOT. KNOW. lol man it's like talking to a wall. You remind me of a girl I used to know. She would just argue over and over about what she thinks and would not listen to anything anyone else would say. I don't know why there is higher death rate in new york. I am not baiting anyone. I am simply asking the question because it doesn't make sense that people would not distinguish the two.

My question does not imply anything. It is based on the video I posted and other sources I posted previously. Did you even watch the video?

Damn, it is true...losing money does decrease your IQ

Let’s be real here. You wouldn’t have given a damn about this if it wasn’t hurting your pocket. I would be pissed too but I wouldn’t be consumed with conspiracy theories and think the government is after me.

 

[JustFillIt]

Lose money? again, are you ret@arded? who lost money? I didn't lose money.

Speaking of ******ed..... I was looking at Lexicomp yesterday and I noticed that they call diltiazem “Cardizem ******” in other countries.. Its the brand name.

It’s also known as:

Altiazem ******
Angiotrophen ******
Cardil ******
Cardizem ******
Diacordin ******
Dilzem ******
Dinisor ******
Tildem ******

Now you know....

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Damn, it is true...losing money does decrease your IQ

Let’s be real here. You wouldn’t have given a damn about this if it wasn’t hurting your pocket. I would be pissed too but I wouldn’t be consumed with conspiracy theories and think the government is after me.

Are you delusional? Who are you talking about? I didn't lose any money. Government is after me? hmm haven't seen anyone coming after me yet other than my crazy exes who want me back.

I actually just invested in a gym with a couple of my friends. We made a decent profit this first quarter until covid19. Even while we closed, didn't lose money since we own the building. I'm okay.

Interesting how you're fixating on money even though I never said anything about it. Have you been laid off or something?

 

[BMBiology]

Are you delusional? Who are you talking about? I didn't lose any money. Government is after me? hmm haven't seen anyone coming after me yet other than my crazy exes who want me back.

I actually just invested in a gym with a couple of my friends. We made a decent profit this first quarter until covid19. Even while we closed, didn't lose money since we own the building. I'm okay.

Interesting how you're fixating on money even though I never said anything about it. Have you been laid off or something?

I knew you are losing money! Just like you started a thread about pbm because you own an independent and they are “taking” money from you. Before you didn’t give a damn. The mighty dollar.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I knew you are losing money! Just like you started a thread about pbm because you own an independent and they are “taking” money from you. Before you didn’t give a damn. The mighty dollar.

LOL man I get it. You may need to check yourself in a mental institute. I work at an indie, I do not own one. Pharmacy losing money due to PBM is all of pharmacy problem, not just mine. If you didn't know this fact as a pharmacist, i don't know what to tell you. Keep telling yourself that though.

I'm sensing jealously... lol

 

[M0df]

I am not even going to attempt to correct any of the fake news from both parties! This is too entertaining.

I get it the whole 'Lol' in every post now. It is like this nervous tick.

 

[lane one]

No to let the facts get in the way of a good story or to mock your lack of reading comprehension, but I quoted Dr. Kit Delgado of the University of Pennsylvania who said:

True, elderly die at much higher rates, but younger adults are hospitalized at high rates

He didn't say higher rates, he said high rates.

The data that followed the quoted statement does not support that statement.

"Of 2,741 hospitalized, 437 (16%) were age <45" does not equal "high rates are being hospitalized". That does not mean 16% of adults <45 with Covid get hospitalized, it means 16% of their hospitalized cohort were <45. They are not the same.

Notice how your post is condescending and mine is cordial? You should try it.

 

[BMBiology]

LOL man I get it. You may need to check yourself in a mental institute. I work at an indie, I do not own one. Pharmacy losing money due to PBM is all of pharmacy problem, not just mine. If you didn't know this fact as a pharmacist, i don't know what to tell you. Keep telling yourself that though.

I'm sensing jealously... lol

Jealous of a money losing business?

I get it...it sucks. You should channel your frustration into something good for your business rather than wasting your time on here.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

The data that followed the quoted statement does not support that statement.

"Of 2,741 hospitalized, 437 (16%) were age <45" does not equal "high rates are being hospitalized". That does not mean 16% of adults <45 with Covid get hospitalized, it means 16% of their hospitalized cohort were <45. They are not the same.

Notice how your post is condescending and mine is cordial? You should try it.

Not sure if he gets it. He's so blinded by his passion for covid19 apocalypse. lol

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

I don’t know bro, he made some good points. Did you see the part where it is written?

For it is written:

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

...crickets.

Most likely deaths from other causes labeled as COVID, that is what happened in Italy.

Where are the numbers for patients dying from regular influenza, did influenza suddenly become nonexistent?

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

 

[Chrish]

WTF is going on here ??

 

[JustFillIt]

WTF is going on here ??

This is what happens when a bunch of highly educated guys with ADHD can’t focus at work and hit refresh on their phone 10,000 times a day to see if there is anything else silly that they can say to distract themselves and add to the conversation.

 

[LazyPharmacist2.0]

Can u blame us, census is low. Ironic in the midst of a pandemic.

 

[lane one]

There is some evidence that COVID is causing hypercoaguability leading to thrombotic events, i.e. strokes, MIs, pulmonary emboli, etc.

Heart attacks and COVID are not necessarily unrelated.

Please cite source. Otherwise, you're just spreading false info and fear.

There's actually quite a bit of supporting literature at this point. Here's one study. I thought there was one published in JAMA recently but couldn't seem to find it.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

There's actually quite a bit of supporting literature at this point. Here's one study. I thought there was one published in JAMA recently but couldn't seem to find it.

Right. I already posted a uptodate link earlier about this. Its just an exacerbating of an existing condition or people with comorbidities. Most of patients being geriatric. Nothing new or surprising.

If there is a sudden thrombosis on a young healthy covid19 patient, that would be a different story.

 

[lane one]

Right. I already posted a uptodate link earlier about this. Its just an exacerbating of an existing condition or people with comorbidities. Most of patients being geriatric. Nothing new or surprising.

If there is a sudden thrombosis on a young healthy covid19 patient, that would be a different story.

Not really.

Since I see you didn't read the study before you responded, I'll summarize very briefly....

-Prospective Cohort of ARDS patients (Covid people vs. non-covid people)
-Matched baseline characteristics (same number of risk factors in each group at baseline)
-Outcomes showed significantly higher rates of thrombosis in the Covid ARM

Are you saying that thrombosis rates in covid patients should be ignored just because the patients are old?

 

[Old Timer]

The data that followed the quoted statement does not support that statement.

"Of 2,741 hospitalized, 437 (16%) were age <45" does not equal "high rates are being hospitalized". That does not mean 16% of adults <45 with Covid get hospitalized, it means 16% of their hospitalized cohort were <45. They are not the same.

Notice how your post is condescending and mine is cordial? You should try it.

Look., I'm sure you are an expert and you know better than the doctors who did the study or the people who reviewed for BMJ. What about the people between 45-64, are they old? The point is clear, many young people (under 65) and you are are pointing only to the 16% under 45. The risk factors for hospitalizations are:

• Age over 75
• BMI >40
• Diabetes
• CHF
• Hypertension.

Depends on how you define old. The idea this does not affect young people is ludicrous.

53% of the patients hospitalized at the 4 NYU hospitals in March 2020 are under 65. That is the majority. Additionally, 16% of the hospitalized were under 45. Unless you consider a 46 y/o to be old. Most would not. You also directly mis quoted what I said. There is a differrence between high and higher.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Not really.

Since I see you didn't read the study before you responded, I'll summarize very briefly....

-Prospective Cohort of ARDS patients (Covid people vs. non-covid people)
-Matched baseline characteristics (same number of risk factors in each group at baseline)
-Outcomes showed significantly higher rates of thrombosis in the Covid ARM

Are you saying that thrombosis rates in covid patients should be ignored just because the patients are old?

No. I didnt read your study. Honestly, dont really care since i dont think its all that relevant.

People kept on asking weird questions so i thought id throw them a bone with a study i read on uptodate which clearly validates whats been happening which is covid19 death is mainly due to exacerbation of patient’s comorbidities. my point was that a young healthy patient isnt going to suddenly develop something they never had just because they contracted covid19 and die.

My main question has always been, why do we not distinguish death by covid19 vs death with covid19?

 

[Old Timer]

No. I didnt read your study. Honestly, dont really care since i dont think its all that relevant.

People kept on asking weird questions so i thought id throw them a bone with a study i read on uptodate which clearly validates whats been happening which is covid19 death is mainly due to exacerbation of patient’s comorbidities. my point was that a young healthy patient isnt going to suddenly develop something they never had just because they contracted covid19 and die.

My main question has always been, why do we not distinguish death by covid19 vs death with covid19?

Then you didn't read the study which does not surprise me. Surprisingly while co morbidites will get you in the hospital, it is low ozygen saturation and inflammatory markers that determine whether you will head to the ICU. It shocks me you didn't read the study. You pulled out what you want ti confirm your own biases. Trolls is as trolls does.

Please explain, because these people with CHF, hypertension and diabetes do not have exacerbation of the their conditions that cause death. They usually die from a massive inflammatory resopnse to the viral infection. So your question is not a good question at all. They don't go into acute VHF or diabetic coma's or have sudden uncontrolled hypertension. They have death from Covid-19. Ti imply otherwise means you know less than nothing about this disease

 

[PharmtoCS]

If there is a sudden thrombosis on a young healthy covid19 patient, that would be a different story.

Unexpected Cause of Death in Younger COVID-19 Patients is Related to Blood Clotting | BioSpace

As more is discovered about the disease caused by the SARS-CoV-2, an unexpected cause of death has been identified—heart attacks and strokes caused by blood clots. And this, in particular, appears to be the cause of death in some younger patients under the age of 50.

www.biospace.com

Blood clot issue found in young COVID-19 patients at University Hospital

University Hospital is seeing a troubling trend when it comes to young people hospitalized with coronavirus. Even without having a predisposition for stroke, younger patients are still at risk for developing a deadly blood clot.

www.ksat.com

"And it’s happening in people under the age of 50 who have not pre-existing conditions that would indicate a clotting risk like diabetes.

“They’re healthy. They don’t have a lot of complications or medical conditions. So, it’s a bit unusual to see these complications in young, young people,” Maselli said."

 

[ValeRx]

Then you didn't read the study which does not surprise me. Surprisingly while co morbidites will get you in the hospital, it is low ozygen saturation and inflammatory markers that determine whether you will head to the ICU. It shocks me you didn't read the study. You pulled out what you want ti confirm your own biases. Trolls is as trolls does.

Please explain, because these people with CHF, hypertension and diabetes do not have exacerbation of the their conditions that cause death. They usually die from a massive inflammatory resopnse to the viral infection. So your question is not a good question at all. They don't go into acute VHF or diabetic coma's or have sudden uncontrolled hypertension. They have death from Covid-19. Ti imply otherwise means you know less than nothing about this disease

Shouldn't you be busy angrily staring down patients coming to your pharmacy with haircuts, yelling at them that you're over 60 and that they're literally killing you because COVID?

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Then you didn't read the study which does not surprise me. Surprisingly while co morbidites will get you in the hospital, it is low ozygen saturation and inflammatory markers that determine whether you will head to the ICU. It shocks me you didn't read the study. You pulled out what you want ti confirm your own biases. Trolls is as trolls does.

Please explain, because these people with CHF, hypertension and diabetes do not have exacerbation of the their conditions that cause death. They usually die from a massive inflammatory resopnse to the viral infection. So your question is not a good question at all. They don't go into acute VHF or diabetic coma's or have sudden uncontrolled hypertension. They have death from Covid-19. Ti imply otherwise means you know less than nothing about this disease

Lol. Ok. You keep telling yourself that i dont know anything. Which is probably true since im young and irresponsible right boomer?

Well my young irresponsible self will be doing what a young irresponsible person does.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

You know what, i take that back. I feel bad. Im sure some people are genuinely scared. With all the new media running this 24/7 and government forcing people to do illogical things, its understandable. I mean, social distancing, really? So you dont get infected at 6ft but at 5’11 you do? Lol as we all know, a virus does not work that way.

Im sorry if i offended anyone by asking questions that cant be answered. Hope yall stay safe regardless of covid19 or not. We got bigger things to worry about such as our profession sinking to the bottom of the ocean. Lets focus on what we can change not some virus that will eventually go away. Peace out.

 

[owlegrad]

Would you be happier if the social distancing distance was 5’11”? The distance is about reducing risk. I don’t think anyone anywhere thinks exactly 6’ is the perfect distance but what do you propose as the right distance?

I think you are missing the forrest for the trees. 100k deaths and you think the issue is how we classify deaths. We need to limit the spread somehow and you complain that 5’11” might be just as good as 6”.

 

[AP191]

100k deaths

I am trying to find an article that differentiates this number related to COVID to numbers numbers associated with the flu this year. I know they stopped counting flu related deaths this year. So are they mixing it all in with the 100k deaths?

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I am trying to find an article that differentiates this number related to COVID to numbers numbers associated with the flu this year. I know they stopped counting flu related deaths this year. So are they mixing it all in with the 100k deaths?

If you go back a few pages on this thread, I posted a link for the flu numbers. Its almost nonexistent or insignificant. Apparently, covid19 cancels flu out lol.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

If you go back a few pages on this thread, I posted a link for the flu numbers. Its almost nonexistent or insignificant. Apparently, covid19 cancels flu out lol.

Not even close:

Preliminary In-Season 2021-2022 Flu Burden Estimates

CDC's weekly cumulative in-season estimates of flu cases, medical visits, hospitalizations and deaths in the United States.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Emmet2301]

If you go back a few pages on this thread, I posted a link for the flu numbers. Its almost nonexistent or insignificant. Apparently, covid19 cancels flu out lol.

Are we even in flu season yet?

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Not even close:

Preliminary In-Season 2021-2022 Flu Burden Estimates

CDC's weekly cumulative in-season estimates of flu cases, medical visits, hospitalizations and deaths in the United States.

www.cdc.gov

Interesting.

I am genuinely curious. Seriously not trying to make an argument against anyone or anything.

Why are we not doing the same thing for the influenza? So much similarities in terms of route of infection, symptoms, etc. except that we have vaccines for the flu which is probable reason for less people dying.

So, if the way you collect the data is altered, as I have posted in other posts, your data is flawed, no? When reclassified, death rate had a significant drop.

On a different note, why is flu infection rate dropping to almost nothing during the peak of COVID19?

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2019-2020/Week14.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2019-2020/Week52.htm

Comparing 2020 week 19 vs 2019 week 19

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2018-2019/Week14.htm

One can argue it's due to quarantine, but then shouldn't COVID19 infection rate do the same? Yet, it's not... hmm

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

 

[Old Timer]

Then you didn't read the study which does not surprise me. Surprisingly while co morbidites will get you in the hospital, it is low ozygen saturation and inflammatory markers that determine whether you will head to the ICU. It shocks me you didn't read the study. You pulled out what you want ti confirm your own biases. Trolls is as trolls does.

Shouldn't you be busy angrily staring down patients coming to your pharmacy with haircuts, yelling at them that you're over 60 and that they're literally killing you because COVID?

I don't where you get the idea I am scared or afraid. Not at all. Just prudent. Unlike some, I don't ignore evidence. The evidence about this is as clear as 100,000 deaths in 4 months. Eventually we will have abetter handle who gets really sick, we will have some treatment and we will have a vaccine and then Covid-19 will be like other respiratory viruses that kill some people but is generally a PITA. But , we don't have any of those things so that makes this more dangerous.

The idea that"

This is the same as the flu
It only effects old people

Is false.

 

[Old Timer]

If you go back a few pages on this thread, I posted a link for the flu numbers. Its almost nonexistent or insignificant. Apparently, covid19 cancels flu out lol.