Parents unhappy with my specialty choice. Wat do?

[100111]

I've already started pounding into my parents' heads how competitive, prestigious and how much money Cardiologists and Gastroenterologists make. They were very surprised to hear that they made, on average, more money than the field I was considering before. Definitely perked their ears up.

its hilarious that you're still allowing you parents to hold such weight about what you'll be doing for the rest of your life.

can we just get this thread deleted mods? a 26 year old not standing up to their parents isn't allo related.

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[general admission]

its hilarious that you're still allowing you parents to hold such weight about what you'll be doing for the rest of your life.

can we just get this thread deleted mods? a 26 year old not standing up to their parents isn't allo related.

I'm 24. Also, I'm going to do what I want, I stated as much in my first post.

 

[Psai]

I've already started pounding into my parents' heads how competitive, prestigious and how much money Cardiologists and Gastroenterologists make. They were very surprised to hear that they made, on average, more money than the field I was considering before. Definitely perked their ears up.

letting people know how much doctors make only makes people jealous and makes physicians targets for decreased reimbursement

 

[Rocher]

letting people know how much doctors make only makes people jealous and makes physicians targets for decreased reimbursement

So this statement applies to your parents as well?

 

[Rocher]

I've already started pounding into my parents' heads how competitive, prestigious and how much money Cardiologists and Gastroenterologists make. They were very surprised to hear that they made, on average, more money than the field I was considering before. Definitely perked their ears up.

It sucks having unsupportive parents, it can really be a downer. They'll come around I'm sure.

 

[sloh]

All I can say is if I made decisions post-high school based off my parent's wishes, I'd be one miserable person right now.

 

[MrChance2]

Personally I wouldn't just ignore your parents, they probably have some decent points and are thinking about your future. I'd listen what they have to say and try to stay open and think about it. Hopefully they have more to say than little needling put downs like were in OP. If you still want to do what you are doing then absolutely what everyone else said, its your life do what you think will make you happy
.

 

[J ROD]

Or God forbid, Psychiatry.

Just the attitude I want to hear........less competition for me. Psychiatry is for the stupid and they are not even real doctors.

 

[DermViser]

I've already started pounding into my parents' heads how competitive, prestigious and how much money Cardiologists and Gastroenterologists make. They were very surprised to hear that they made, on average, more money than the field I was considering before. Definitely perked their ears up.

What parent doesn't want their son/daughter to be monetarily successful?

 

[RJGOP]

I've already started pounding into my parents' heads how competitive, prestigious and how much money Cardiologists and Gastroenterologists make. They were very surprised to hear that they made, on average, more money than the field I was considering before. Definitely perked their ears up.

Are you interested in those subspecializations, however?

 

[Kahreek]

Just the attitude I want to hear........less competition for me. Psychiatry is for the stupid and they are not even real doctors.

god bless you

 

[DermViser]

Are you interested in those subspecializations, however?

Maybe it's just me but OP seems like he's whining and not even taking advice from his parents to think that maybe, just maybe they are trying to warn him before he makes a grave mistake. He's shocked that by mentioning Cards and GI making a lot of money, that his parents are happy as somehow a bad thing, when all parents want their children to be successful and make a lot of money.

 

[RJGOP]

Maybe it's just me but OP seems like he's whining and not even taking advice from his parents to think that maybe, just maybe they are trying to warn him before he makes a grave mistake. He's shocked that by mentioning Cards and GI making a lot of money, that his parents are happy as somehow a bad thing, when all parents want their children to be successful and make a lot of money.

I definitely think OP should strongly consider his parent's advice. I understand them wanting him to enter a more competitive specialty, given his ability, but if ultimately he'd rather do IM, then I'd say he should do it. For most people, an internal medicine residency would suck really badly, but he has to ascertain through prior experience whether or not that will be the case for him. He is in a tough situation and he, in my opinion, really should consider what his parents are saying. But this decision is ultimately his, and he should decide. I do sympathize with his parents, however.

 

[DermViser]

I definitely think OP should strongly consider his parent's advice. I understand them wanting him to enter a more competitive specialty, given his ability, but if ultimately he'd rather do IM, then I'd say he should do it. For most people, an internal medicine residency would suck really badly, but he has to ascertain through prior experience whether or not that will be the case for him. He is in a tough situation and he, in my opinion, really should consider what his parents are saying. But this decision is ultimately his, and he should decide. I do sympathize with his parents, however.

The problem is he doesn't have that experience. Even your M3 Internal Medicine clerkship gives you only a slight glimpse as far as your responsibilities when you're an IM intern/resident where you'll be doing a lot more rotations than just inpatient IM wards. All I'm saying is he shouldn't completely dismiss what his parents are saying, esp. in this changing medical environment in which primary care is largely being taken over by PAs and NPs in order to cut costs (which the govt. loves).

 

[RJGOP]

The problem is he doesn't have that experience. Even your M3 Internal Medicine clerkship gives you only a slight glimpse as far as your responsibilities when you're an IM intern/resident where you'll be doing a lot more rotations than just inpatient IM wards. All I'm saying is he shouldn't completely dismiss what his parents are saying, esp. in this changing medical environment in which primary care is largely being taken over by PAs and NPs in order to cut costs (which the govt. loves).

Yeah, I completely agree. Perhaps I didn't articulate myself well. I was pretty much saying the same thing. But you are right, his M3 clerkship is only the tip of the iceberg- and it might be very beneficial for him to really consider his parents advice.

 

[jdh71]

Until reading this thread I had no idea how much it sucked to be me, probably because life seems so good.

I need to let my wife know. So that she can divorce me and get it over with.

My son is also proud of me. This will need to change. But in his defense, he just didn't know.

 

[Nasrudin]

Until reading this thread I had no idea how much it sucked to be me, probably because life seems so good.

I need to let my wife know. So that she can divorce me and get it over with.

My son is also proud of me. This will need to change. But in his defense, he just didn't know.

.

Yeah. It's probably for the best.

 

[jdh71]

On the serious side, could you elaborate?

About how much my life *really* sucks?

 

[DH410]

About how much my life *really* sucks?

I'd love to hear from you too.
I always appreciate anecdotes about peoples careers. It's a hell of a lot better than nothing.

In person, asking about careers can feel like brown nosing. Or it can feel like you're denigrating the other person's career. It just seems very political/tense.

Here it's somewhat buffered by the anonymity.

 

[jdh71]

Or doesn't suck. You're an internist, right? Or did you subspecialize? Can you give some feedback about life?

I'd love to hear from you too.
I always appreciate anecdotes about peoples careers. It's a hell of a lot better than nothing.

In person, asking about careers can feel like brown nosing. Or it can feel like you're denigrating the other person's career. It just seems very political/tense.

Here it's somewhat buffered by the anonymity.

I'm a pulmonary and critical care doc. I did an IM residency first.

In clinic I only see pulmonary patients. But it an interesting job and is a lot more than COPD, asthma, and cough but that's probably bread and butter. I do many different types of bronchoscopy that very often result in diagnosis, especially of cancer, safer than radiology and surgery (though it's nuanced and I work closely with both to decide the best course of action in many cases). Clinic is obviously day work. No nights. No weekends.

In the medical ICU, I take care of the sickest patients in the hospital. This is a job that requires days, nights, weekends, holidays because someone needs to do it. It's shift work. I take NO CALL.

I work 15 to 18 shifts (a day in clinic is considered a "shift") per month. Doing half critical care and half clinic. I get paid very well to do this.

I have friends who do hospitalist work. It's not sexy. It's hard work. But it pays well like 220 to 250 and the work is half the year.

I have friends who do outpatient only work. No nights. No weekends. Ever. As long as the set up is good that can be a super great way to make ~180 for some people. Plus it's a great job for those who really like to intimately involved with their patients. It can be thankless sometimes.

 

[DermViser]

I'm a pulmonary and critical care doc. I did an IM residency first.

In clinic I only see pulmonary patients. But it an interesting job and is a lot more than COPD, asthma, and cough but that's probably bread and butter. I do many different types of bronchoscopy that very often result in diagnosis, especially of cancer, safer than radiology and surgery (though it's nuanced and I work closely with both to decide the best course of action in many cases). Clinic is obviously day work. No nights. No weekends.

In the medical ICU, I take care of the sickest patients in the hospital. This is a job that requires days, nights, weekends, holidays because someone needs to do it. It's shift work. I take NO CALL.

I work 15 to 18 shifts (a day in clinic is considered a "shift") per month. Doing half critical care and half clinic. I get paid very well to do this.

I have friends who do hospitalist work. It's not sexy. It's hard work. But it pays well like 220 to 250 and the work is half the year.

I have friends who do outpatient only work. No nights. No weekends. Ever. As long as the set up is good that can be a super great way to make ~180 for some people. Plus it's a great job for those who really like to intimately involved with their patients. It can be thankless sometimes.

I think happiness relates a lot to lifestyle. I don't care how much you love the subject intellectually, if you're putting in a ridiculous number of hours 80+ per week, there is no way you are enjoying every moment. Eventually your body physiology takes over: sleep deprivation (esp. extended over months), etc. I can totally see someone doing hospitalist for the sole reason of working only half the year and getting paid well for it - as they should for getting crapped on by the entire hospital.

 

[RJGOP]

I think happiness relates a lot to lifestyle. I don't care how much you love the subject intellectually, if you're putting in a ridiculous number of hours 80+ per week, there is no way you are enjoying every moment. Eventually your body physiology takes over: sleep deprivation (esp. extended over months), etc. I can totally see someone doing hospitalist for the sole reason of working only half the year and getting paid well for it - as they should for getting crapped on by the entire hospital.

The only thing I'd rather do less than being a hospitalsit is being a psyciatrist. That's just me though. But, for the work they do ( referring to hospitalist) they pretty well reimbursed.

 

[DermViser]

The only thing I'd rather do less than being a hospitalsit is being a psyciatrist. That's just me though. But, for the work they do ( referring to hospitalist) they pretty well reimbursed.

Funny, I would take Psychiatry over Hospitalist medicine but that's not surprising as it's very outpatient based. Hospitalist is full inpatient based 80+ hours per week but you get the whole next week off (not out of the goodness of their hearts, but bc you'll need it).

 

[jdh71]

Thanks for the info. What would you advise someone in our shoes (OP and myself) who let's just say can get into most fields with our scores but looking at IM. Would you advise against that for any reason?

Absolutely not. I wouldn't advise against IM at all. In fact if you have the scores and grades and research to match *somewhere, anywhere (please God!)* in one of these so called glamorous specialties, you'll have the application to nail down a top spot at a major university program in IM and then the world is potentially your oyster.

 

[DermViser]

Thanks for the info. What would you advise someone in our shoes (OP and myself) who let's just say can get into most fields with our scores but looking at IM. Would you advise against that for any reason?

Only if lifestyle during residency (and potentially after) is a huge concern to you.

 

[Priapism4tooLong]

Absolutely not. I wouldn't advise against IM at all. In fact if you have the scores and grades and research to match *somewhere, anywhere (please God!)* in one of these so called glamorous specialties, you'll have the application to nail down a top spot at a major university program in IM and then the world is potentially your oyster.

How do you enjoy transitioning from Primary care to ICU?. i'm currently doing IM/EM residency right now and am thinking about what to do next. Chronic pain is definitely one of my options. However i do love ICU.

edit: so pretty much choosing between a critical care fellowship, or chronic pain

 

[BobbyB]

psych brah checking in

tfw my uncles and cousins all think i'm wasting my talent
tfw my classmates say "why are you going into psych with your Step 1 score"

 

[jdh71]

How do you enjoy transitioning from Primary care to ICU?. i'm currently doing IM/EM residency right now and am thinking about what to do next. Chronic pain is definitely one of my options. However i do love ICU.

edit: so pretty much choosing between a critical care fellowship, or chronic pain

Well. Pulm clinic isn't primary care. I guess single organ primary care because once I have a patient I usually run all their pulmonary meds. But I like going back and forth. I probably like pulm the best but I need my unit fix at least once a month.

 

[jdh71]

Only if lifestyle during residency (and potentially after) is a huge concern to you.

Lifestyle during residency isn't bad in IM nor is it afterwards.

You're FOS in here trying to preach otherwise.

 

[DermViser]

Lifestyle during residency isn't bad in IM nor is it afterwards.

You're FOS in here trying to preach otherwise.

Whether lifestyle during residency is "bad" highly depends on the person. There's a reason prelims can't wait for their internship to be over. Any general surgery resident would say an IM resident has a cakewalk with respect to hours (and they would be correct bc General Surgery is much worse). IM definitely hits the 80 hrs/week if not greater depending on rotation. For you to pretend otherwise is quite naive, if not outright deceptive on your part.

 

[VisionaryTics]

Whether lifestyle during residency is "bad" highly depends on the person. There's a reason prelims can't wait for their internship to be over. Any general surgery resident would say an IM resident has a cakewalk with respect to hours (and they would be correct bc General Surgery is much worse). IM definitely hits the 80 hrs/week if not greater depending on rotation. For you to pretend otherwise is quite naive, if not outright deceptive on your part.

I think it's interesting that you call an board-certified (or board-eligible) internist naive regarding internal medicine residency.

 

[jdh71]

Whether lifestyle during residency is "bad" highly depends on the person. There's a reason prelims can't wait for their internship to be over. Any general surgery resident would say an IM resident has a cakewalk with respect to hours (and they would be correct bc General Surgery is much worse). IM definitely hits the 80 hrs/week if not greater depending on rotation. For you to pretend otherwise is quite naive, if not outright deceptive on your part.

I'm not pretending anything. You simply do not work regular 80 hour work weeks in IM. Average hours worked in a week during training is around 60. When you get efficient and don't have to round on a weekend you'll work in the 50s.

 

[DermViser]

I think it's interesting that you call an board-certified (or board-eligible) internist naive regarding internal medicine residency.

Again, the lifestyle during IM was fine FOR HIM. But to somehow say it's not rigorous in terms of lifestyle for others is quite disingenuous.

I'm not pretending anything. You simply do not work regular 80 hour work weeks in IM. Average hours worked in a week during training is around 60. When you get efficient and don't have to round on a weekend you'll work in the 50s.

Depends very much on the program and the rotation (Wards vs. ICU vs. Elective), etc. As far as rounding on the weekend - that very much depends on the policies of the residency with regards to rounding and checking out at sign-out at noon.

 

[W19]

Whether lifestyle during residency is "bad" highly depends on the person. There's a reason prelims can't wait for their internship to be over. Any general surgery resident would say an IM resident has a cakewalk with respect to hours (and they would be correct bc General Surgery is much worse). IM definitely hits the 80 hrs/week if not greater depending on rotation. For you to pretend otherwise is quite naive, if not outright deceptive on your part.

You can't not be serious! Your level of arrogance is beyond belief... The poster you are referring to said he/she is a BC IM/PCC... You know more about IM than he/she is....

 

[jdh71]

Again, the lifestyle during IM was fine FOR HIM. But to somehow say it's not rigorous in terms of lifestyle for others is quite disingenuous.


Depends very much on the program and the rotation (Wards vs. ICU vs. Elective), etc. As far as rounding on the weekend - that very much depends on the policies of the residency with regards to rounding and checking out at sign-out at noon.

So what you are saying is that you're running your mouth about something that really doesn't always happen?

Noted.

In my experience those "miserable pre-lims" were all a bunch of lazy, useless whiners at baseline. Miserable people at baseline. The experience of most of the pre-lims I worked with was positive and while those folks wanted to eventually work in another specialty they did not hate preliminary year.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

You can't not be serious! Your level of arrogance is beyond belief... The poster you are referring to said he/she is a BC IM/PCC... You know more about IM than he/she is....

Except it is still one person's experience...

I'm not pretending anything. You simply do not work regular 80 hour work weeks in IM. Average hours worked in a week during training is around 60. When you get efficient and don't have to round on a weekend you'll work in the 50s.

If you average in the outpatient and research months, maybe.

The medicine residents at my hospital average very close to 80 on inpatient months (more if you assume they are fudging their time sheets...which they probably are).

The anesthesia residents who rotate on both medicine and surgery their intern years tell us the hours are better on surgery.

 

[bronx43]

Lifestyle during residency isn't bad in IM nor is it afterwards.

You're FOS in here trying to preach otherwise.

Third year IM resident here. JDH is 100% right. No way in hell you come close to 80 hours during most months of your training. Maybe a few difficult months would be close, but otherwise 60-65 would be the norm at a non-sweatshop during ward months, and 40 for clinic or consult months.

 

[DermViser]

You can't not be serious! Your level of arrogance is beyond belief... The poster you are referring to said he/she is a BC IM/PCC... You know more about IM than he/she is....

I didn't say I knew more about IM, read my posts, AGAIN.

 

[DermViser]

Third year IM resident here. JDH is 100% right. No way in hell you come close to 80 hours during most months of your training. Maybe a few difficult months would be close, but otherwise 60-65 would be the norm at a non-sweatshop during ward months, and 40 for clinic or consult months.

When did I say most months? Again it depends on which program and how much volume your specific institution gets with regards to how "cush" it will be.
Funny how you left off ICU months, in your zeal to market outpatient/ambulatory months.

 

[W19]

Except it is still one person's experience...



If you average in the outpatient and research months, maybe.

The medicine residents at my hospital average very close to 80 on inpatient months (more if you assume they are fudging their time sheets...which they probably are).

The anesthesia residents who rotate on both medicine and surgery their intern years tell us the hours are better on surgery.

One person's experience vs ZERO person's experience...

 

[jdh71]

Except it is still one person's experience...



If you average in the outpatient and research months, maybe.

The medicine residents at my hospital average very close to 80 on inpatient months (more if you assume they are fudging their time sheets...which they probably are).

The anesthesia residents who rotate on both medicine and surgery their intern years tell us the hours are better on surgery.

One person's experience . . .

Heh

 

[DermViser]

Except it is still one person's experience...

If you average in the outpatient and research months, maybe.

The medicine residents at my hospital average very close to 80 on inpatient months (more if you assume they are fudging their time sheets...which they probably are).

The anesthesia residents who rotate on both medicine and surgery their intern years tell us the hours are better on surgery.

Thank you. I'm wasn't even making the assertion that W19, although I can see how that may not have been clear. But no doubt at an Internal Medicine university academic medical center you will be hitting very close to 80 on inpatient months (esp. ICU) esp. if you go to a hospital with high volume (i.e. Columbia, NYU) and that's if you 100% believe resident's time sheets (which I don't).

 

[DermViser]

One person's experience vs ZERO person's experience...

You realize people in Rads, Ophtho, Anesthesia, Derm, Rad Onc, and PM&R do prelim years in Internal Medicine right?

 

[jdh71]

When did I say most months? Again it depends on which program and how much volume your specific institution gets with regards to how "cush" it will be.
Funny how you left off ICU months, in your zeal to market outpatient/ambulatory months.

ICU should be a busy month. You work 80 keeping people alive. Cry about it. Lol. You aren't allowed to do more than three ICU months in residency by the rules these days.

 

[jdh71]

Thank you. I'm wasn't even making the assertion that W19, although I can see how that may not have been clear. But no doubt at an Internal Medicine university academic medical center you will be hitting very close to 80 on inpatient months (esp. ICU) esp. if you go to a hospital with high volume (i.e. Columbia, NYU) and that's if you 100% believe resident's time sheets (which I don't).

I trained at a university academic medical center.

Where is your God now?

 

[DermViser]

ICU should be a busy month. You work 80 keeping people alive. Cry about it. Lol. You aren't allowed to do more than three ICU months in residency by the rules these days.

Not crying about it at all. The point is on your inpatient months you are hitting 80 for sure esp. if you're at a high volume institution - i.e. Columbia, NYU, etc. It's one thing to justify it, which is fine. It's another thing to deny it altogether.

 

[bronx43]

When did I say most months? Again it depends on which program and how much volume your specific institution gets with regards to how "cush" it will be.
Funny how you left off ICU months, in your zeal to market outpatient/ambulatory months.

I include the ICU months as part of the inpatient months. At my institution (large academic), our ICU months are not much worse than a typical ward month. 60-70 tops. If a horrible month, then maybe you'll hit 80 one of those weeks...

 

[DermViser]

I trained at a university academic medical center.

Where is your God now?

And like you JUST ADMITTED, you are working 80 hours a week if not greater on inpatient months - i.e. ICU. Why you are belaboring the point is beyond me. You're acting as if IM residency in general is a 60 hr. per week gig. Yes, if you average 1 month of ICU (80/week) and 1 month of Allergy elective (40/week), to arrive at the number.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Thank you. I'm wasn't even making the assertion that W19, although I can see how that may not have been clear. But no doubt at an Internal Medicine university academic medical center you will be hitting very close to 80 on inpatient months (esp. ICU) esp. if you go to a hospital with high volume (i.e. Columbia, NYU) and that's if you 100% believe resident's time sheets (which I don't).

Actually the ICU months are better here, because they are more strict about signing out on time.

The real problem for the wards months (at my hospital) is that the culture is that you can't sign out...well...anything. And it's taboo to sign out even if you're just finishing notes and have no other work left. So they still get pages on their existing patients that they are expected to deal with prior to sign out.

60 hours for an inpatient month is a funny joke. Assuming the program is sticking to 1 in 7 off, that's getting out of the hospital by 4pm on average.

 

[bronx43]

Not crying about it at all. The point is on your inpatient months you are hitting 80 for sure esp. if you're at a high volume institution - i.e. Columbia, NYU, etc. It's one thing to justify it, which is fine. It's another thing to deny it altogether.

Wrong. I'm at a high volume institution with a top 15 cancer center. Even on the hardest onc or heme month, we don't routinely hit 80... it's all about the support staff.