Parenting...

[PharmDstudent]

Help me out here. I'm trying to keep an open mind, but...
(I'm not here to flame anyone. I'm looking for your insight as I do not understand what goes on in the minds of other people.)

What's up with all of those parenting threads lately?


In my day to day interactions with people, I will often hear someone make an assumption like: "when you get married" or "when you have kids". My thoughts after someone says something like that: "Do I really need to relate to you by going through childbirth? Is that really necessary? Do you not have any other means to connect with people besides adding more people to this overpopulated Earth? Are you that shallow?"

Do people really feel like they've accomplished something great by having children? I would almost consider parenthood to be a deliberate insult to a person's life.

I personally feel that parenting is hazardous to women for two reasons:
1) women are forever viewed as mothers and the social stigmas associated with mothers makes their role more problematic (Common cliche's: "Stop acting like my mother." "Who do you think you are? My mother?" "She acts like that, because she's a mom.")
2) women who have children are no longer "sought after" or "prized", because they've already been "conquered"

Maybe I'm viewing parenthood as a sacrifice instead of a voluntary decision like going to pharmacy school?
Maybe I don't see the value in having children when society is already plagued by dependent, unambitious citizens?
Maybe I need a vacation?

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[Old Timer]

You and I have had this conversation before. But here goes. There is a price to be paid for every decision you make in this life. The trick is knowing what the price is so when the bill comes you're not shocked. There is a price to pay for having children and there is a price to pay for not having children. You will have to decide for yourself.

Parenthood (mine are 21 and 18) is one of the most challenging but also one of the most gratifying experiences of my life. Is it for everyone, no. But personally I wouldn't have enjoyed life nearly as much if I wasn't a dad....

women who have children are no longer "sought after" or "prized", because they've already been "conquered"

That's a bunch of crap. If you want me to elaborate, I will. I just think you are off base on this one....

 

[JerryPharmD]

I took an evolutionary biology class where the professor said, "Everyone who doesn't have kids raise your hand. Your fitness is zero; your genes die with you." Parenting allows you to care for and guide your offspring.

There are no words for the love that I have for my child. She gives purpose to life.

 

[njac]

I understand PDS. I'm almost 25 and have no inclination to reproduce. I have dogs and a pony, I don't need human spawn.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Children cost too much. And I'm not even talking about money, either. Myself and my wife see it very similarly on the matter. They aren't in our plans.

I took an evolutionary biology class where the professor said, "Everyone who doesn't have kids raise your hand. Your fitness is zero; your genes die with you." Parenting allows you to care for and guide your offspring.

**** that. Who cares if your genes are around? It's just a bunch of damn amino acids hooked together in a pattern similar to yours inside of some other human that leeches off of you for 18+ years. Granted, it's one's right to have a kid and all, but don't make it something it isn't. We all share the same genes more or less.

There really isn't anything special about my ancestrally mutt-like genes, anyway. Irish, Spanish, Norwegian, Scottish, English, Native American, African, German, N. Mediterranean....I gots all that in me. Why does it matter if my genes get passed on? They're pretty much all out there already. I guess if you're a racial supremacist it may matter. Unfortunately, my genes are too tainted to join the Black Panthers or the KKK. That's how it goes. And, hell, if I had a kid, he'd have to add his mom's half Jew half Russian genes to his motley list of crap. If this theorized kid got with an Asian, I'm pretty sure just about everything would be covered.

But we are talking about creating another human.

What disgusts me is that humanity can't even care for all of its children right now. The world would be much better if everyone in the industrialized world did one thing. Instead of having kids themselves, just skip the complicated pregnancy part, and rather than paying the expensive cost of a child for 18 years, just send $40,000 a year to UNICEF. Rather than two humans, one suffering, one comfortable - you'd just have one comfortable human.

Or, gee whiz, adopt a kid. All these rich ****s having 3 kids when there are perfectly good ones becoming emotionally damaged in foster care or dying of AIDS in Nigeria. There should be a child luxury tax.

Yeah, yeah, you don't get to experience the warm and cuddly part of the process. Who gives a **** if you could minimize human suffering. You got a Hallmark card of a life to maintain. Maintaining your genes. How pathetic is that, really? Billions of years of evolution and we're still reduced to the same ****. Humans and amoebae still have much in common, I s'pose.....

But, you know....there are interesting angles to everything. I'll be the first to admit that I see the world hella different than the average dude. If my cold, unabashed logic offends anybody...well, my bad. But, yeah, PharmDstudent....I can see where you're coming from. Don't expect anyone else to, though. That's just how it is.

 

[PharmDstudent]

That's a bunch of crap. If you want me to elaborate, I will. I just think you are off base on this one....

You're right. It's just a flawed perception.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Or, gee whiz, adopt a kid. All these rich ****s having 3 kids when there are perfectly good ones becoming emotionally damaged in foster care or dying of AIDS in Nigeria. There should be a child luxury tax.

I've looked into that. Maybe I'll visit the region where my ancestors originated near Russia one day and adopt a child form that area who has never seen the kind of wealth and prosperity that we have in America. Their orphanages are supposed to be.... ummmm.... depressing to say the least.




I actually really love children. They capture something in this world that does not exist amongst adults. They're fantastic people.

When I was an older teenager, I volunteered for an organization that gave "disadvantaged" children the opportunity to attend a free, week-long camp every summer. It was very inspiring. The last two days of camp were always emotional, because everyone had bonded so well that it made all of us sad to know that camp was almost over.
I need to get in contact with the camp's coordinator. Maybe they still have it.

I could care less about my genes. If someone really wants them that bad, I'll offer up cells for cloning purposes.

 

[rxlynn]

Help me out here. I'm trying to keep an open mind, but...
(I'm not here to flame anyone. I'm looking for your insight as I do not understand what goes on in the minds of other people.)

What's up with all of those parenting threads lately?


In my day to day interactions with people, I will often hear someone make an assumption like: "when you get married" or "when you have kids". My thoughts after someone says something like that: "Do I really need to relate to you by going through childbirth? Is that really necessary? Do you not have any other means to connect with people besides adding more people to this overpopulated Earth? Are you that shallow?"...

Maybe I'm viewing parenthood as a sacrifice instead of a voluntary decision like going to pharmacy school?
Maybe I don't see the value in having children when society is already plagued by dependent, unambitious citizens?
Maybe I need a vacation?

OK - I'll try to describe what was going through my head. Yes, having children is a huge sacrifice. There are certainly times when I wonder what my life would be like right now if I hadn't had kids, and for many years I felt (as you do) that it was a sacrifice that I didn't want to make. I think that people generally make the assumptions that you are describing above because, in the end, the vast majority of people do have children. So, rightly or not, most of society thinks that way because that's what generally occurs.

I am in total agreement with you in terms of overpopulation and children being born that aren't wanted. Unfortunately, when you look at actual data you can see that education has a very strong negative correlation with having children (i.e. the less education you have the more children you are likely to have).
--see http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_23/sr23_025.pdf
for more data than you could possibly want on pregnancy, contraception, infertility, etc.
That is not a problem that I personally can impact. However, I could choose to have children that were wanted, planned, and will be raised in an intact household to become productive, educated citizens - so I don't feel as though I'm shallow for adding my two to the Earth.

I'll just add that I feel very strongly that nobody should have children that aren't wanted, and I am happy for you and others that you have realized that you don't want children, and that it is becoming more socially acceptable to make that choice.

 

[rxlynn]

....
Or, gee whiz, adopt a kid. All these rich ****s having 3 kids when there are perfectly good ones becoming emotionally damaged in foster care or dying of AIDS in Nigeria. There should be a child luxury tax.

Yeah, yeah, you don't get to experience the warm and cuddly part of the process. .

I didn't really want to do it just so I could pass on my genes (I have a friend who said that to me once, and I thought it was a really strange reason to have a child). However, I would have personally remained childless as opposed to adopting a special needs child or a child who had spent the first years of his life being completely neglected. I think that people who are willing to do that are amazing, but I personally would not have adopted a child if I couldn't have them from the beginning, and I don't think that most people would.

 

[Epic]

Non parents describing parenting is like trying to describe what chocolate tastes like....without ever having eaten chocolate..

 

[SexyPlexi]

I'm pretty sure it would be wonderful to see a little person with your features and your spouses all mixed up. My dad has told me before how neat it is for him to see himself in my personality so much. I think it will be wonderful.

 

[SexyPlexi]

I just read Epic's post...I'm glad mine came RIGHT after it...

 

[tussionex]

nothing about having kids appeals to me....the grossness of pregnancy and birth, the years of having to guide them and explain everything, to have to teach them something so simple as how to use the bathroom, to having to get through the nightmare of high school. and the responsibility of having to take care of another human life! NO WAY!

neither my husband nor i want kids. if i were single and dating, i wouldn't date a guy that already had kids, either.


i don't hate kids, they're just not for me. i like my friends' kids just fine, but i like it better when they leave!

 

[peace]

those of you who don't want to have kids...you don't know what you're missing.having your own child is the best thing that can ever happen to you.i have an eight month old baby and i've never been happier.

 

[aboveliquidice]

Personally I want to have kids - but on a more global set of reasoning...

There are a LOT of dumb genes running around... It would be nice if the people with intelligence took it upon themselves to procreate - at the very least you are strengthening the gene pool - which at this time is starting to run a little thin...

If not for yourself - do it for you species... amen

~above~

 

[medicalCPA]

Personally I want to have kids - but on a more global set of reasoning...

There are a LOT of dumb genes running around... It would be nice if the people with intelligence took it upon themselves to procreate - at the very least you are strengthening the gene pool - which at this time is starting to run a little thin...

If not for yourself - do it for you species... amen

~above~

For the bolded sentence, I have only one word...Eugenics.

Personally, I'm still ambivalent about having kids. They can be great, but I believe that kids are in a conspiracy to kill themselves the minute you're not looking.

 

[Moxxie]

I've always wanted kids - but maybe not as soon as I will be having one. But then again, I was raised to believe that children are a gift and that motherhood is a blessing and a noble accomplishment. Not that women have no other purpose, though - I was definitely taught that I should be successful in my career AND as a mother. But I guess that I haven't experienced the comments or views that PharmDstudent brought up in his first post.

I may be coming from a different background, though - my mom and aunt were adopted after my grandparents lost 5 babies to either SIDS or a rare genetic disorder that caused rapid muscle atrophy - none of their children lived past 14 months.

It's funny - I was terrified about having children. This may sound sappy, but there's something about feeling your own child move around inside you, kicking and rolling, that brings on this intense protective and loving bond. My husband has said that he's felt the same way when he's felt the baby kick.

 

[MountainPharmD]

Children cost too much. And I'm not even talking about money, either. Myself and my wife see it very similarly on the matter. They aren't in our plans.

You make me laugh dude!!!! Life has a way making plans for you. My wife and I weren't going to have kids either. In fact I shouted it as loud as I could to who ever would listen. I was never going to have kids and if I did I would darn sure never be caught dead in a mini-van.

I have a little boy who just turned 2, my wife is pregnant with twins and I am going to trade in the wifes car for a mini-van tomorrow. You know what? I coundn't be any happier!

 

[Epic]

You make me laugh dude!!!! Life has a way making plans for you. My wife and I weren't going to have kids either. In fact I shouted it as loud as I could to who ever would listen. I was never going to have kids and if I did I would darn sure never be caught dead in a mini-van.

I have a little boy who just turned 2, my wife is pregnant with twins and I am going to trade in the wifes car for a mini-van tomorrow. You know what? I coundn't be any happier!

We have a 7 year old Odyssey. We'll probably buy another Odyssey when our current one quits in about 10 years.

Congrats on the twins !!!!

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Non parents describing parenting is like trying to describe what chocolate tastes like....without ever having eaten chocolate..

More bull****. I could just as easily say an entire life lived without children is something a parent would never know. There is no such thing as nondescriptive emotion. Ok, so you become attached to them. Yeah. It's so hard to describe.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

You make me laugh dude!!!! Life has a way making plans for you. My wife and I weren't going to have kids either. In fact I shouted it as loud as I could to who ever would listen. I was never going to have kids and if I did I would darn sure never be caught dead in a mini-van.

Yeah, well, you don't know me that well.

If anything, I would chose to adopt. I can't bring another life into the universe when kids are in misery elsewhere with nobody to care for them.

 

[Epic]

More bull****. I could just as easily say an entire life lived without children is something a parent would never know. There is no such thing as nondescriptive emotion. Ok, so you become attached to them. Yeah. It's so hard to describe.

One day you'll overcome your immaturity. Just not today.

Well, you haven't lived your entire life. And I lived much longer than you without having kids. So.... STFU.

 

[mustang sally]

More bull****. I could just as easily say an entire life lived without children is something a parent would never know. There is no such thing as nondescriptive emotion. Ok, so you become attached to them. Yeah. It's so hard to describe.

It's not really comparable because people with kids know what their lives were like without kids (could have just as easily been their whole lives), whereas people without kids have never had the experience of having kids. Just sayin'.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

One day you'll overcome your immaturity. Just not today.

Blah blah blah. I am immature. I won't lie. But that doesn't mean I can't see through bull****. God help us all we question things that are perceived as illogical. The inerrant word of our Lord and Savior Epic....

Well, you haven't lived your entire life. And I lived much longer than you without having kids. So.... STFU.

It's an everchanging world. Dynamism renders experience worthless.

 

[Chiyo]

This is why the social security will soon go bankrupt... less people want to have kids...

 

[Epic]

It's an everchanging world. Dynamism renders experience worthless.

So says a lost soul with very little experience.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

It's not really comparable because people with kids know what their lives were like without kids (could have just as easily been their whole lives), whereas people without kids have never had the experience of having kids. Just sayin'.

Kinda has the same ring to it as Pascal's Wager.

Children are something you experience that take from the finite amount of time you have while living. By experiencing THAT, it takes away from the ability to experience other things for an entire lifetime. Ergo, one cannot say that they know what one version of a life is like versus another version of a life as we all only have one full run through. If you have been reincarnated and have experienced both, by all means, do tell. Otherwise, one cannot say that.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

So says a lost soul with very little experience.

Mmmhmmm. Any other vacuous fortune cookie sayings you want to throw around?

 

[SpirivaSunrise]

And what if you want kids but can't find the guy?

 

[heatherkmd]

I personally feel that parenting is hazardous to women for two reasons:
1) women are forever viewed as mothers and the social stigmas associated with mothers makes their role more problematic (Common cliche's: "Stop acting like my mother." "Who do you think you are? My mother?" "She acts like that, because she's a mom.")
2) women who have children are no longer "sought after" or "prized", because they've already been "conquered"


Maybe I need a vacation?

How old are you? Age may be a reason why you are not ready to think about this.....or maybe you will be one of those people who KNOW they don't want kids. I applaud you if you know this and don't feel pressure to do so.

I never knew a time when i did not want to be a Mom. I did it all backwards...college. found wonderful man. marriage. kids. work some. sahm mom. college again. pharmacy school.

My kids are one of my biggest accomplishments but I am not completely defined by being a MOTHER and no, it does not have a negative connotation. They are a constant source of joy, and they keep me motivated. It is a wonderful feeling to see yourself in someone else and watch them grow, learn, etc....

Yes I am seen as a mother, but I have always had a maternal streak...(i.e. lecturing my college roommates about drinking and having one night stands with frat boys!!) so, yes my personality is very motherly and caring but it does not "limit" me in any way or how others view me.

The fact that you are worrying about being viewed as "conquered" makes me think that you have not met someone that does not make it their mission to conquer you....I have many goals in this life that I have left to conquer and my husband will tell you that there is no way he will "conquer" me. You can still be "sought after" when you're a Mom, but you will one day see that doesn't really mean anything anyway.

Yes, you need a vacation.

 

[Farmercyst]

It's an everchanging world. Dynamism renders experience worthless.

That's probably why most pharm professors are hired straight out of school with no real world basis for what they're teaching. Experience is pointless.

Speaking of which, my mother-in-law used to get all sorts of "advice" from her childless/spouseless sister. Amazing how the story changed when the sister adopted a kid from China and became a single parent.

 

[BlueCrayon]

But we are talking about creating another human.

What disgusts me is that humanity can't even care for all of its children right now. The world would be much better if everyone in the industrialized world did one thing. Instead of having kids themselves, just skip the complicated pregnancy part, and rather than paying the expensive cost of a child for 18 years, just send $40,000 a year to UNICEF. Rather than two humans, one suffering, one comfortable - you'd just have one comfortable human.

Or, gee whiz, adopt a kid. All these rich ****s having 3 kids when there are perfectly good ones becoming emotionally damaged in foster care or dying of AIDS in Nigeria. There should be a child luxury tax.

Yeah, yeah, you don't get to experience the warm and cuddly part of the process. Who gives a **** if you could minimize human suffering. You got a Hallmark card of a life to maintain. Maintaining your genes. How pathetic is that, really? Billions of years of evolution and we're still reduced to the same ****. Humans and amoebae still have much in common, I s'pose.....

Well first of all, this is obviously a pretty controversial topic...as a matter of fact, my wife and I have lost a couple of friends because of arguments stemming from this very topic. A little discussion became an argument and a lot of bad things were said and all of a sudden it's been 2 years and we haven't spoke since and probably never will again. He was one of those society-hating, non-conformists...you know the type. I know a lot of people like that and the woe-is-me everything sucks atttitude gets old real fast. I was also one of those people that didn't want to have children, but eventually decided to have a baby and now I have a 2 year old daughter. I admit, the first year or so kind of sucked, but now she's the greatest thing ever. I do find it rather annoying when people are so closed minded and have a set in stone opinion on something. Having children are for some people and not for others and me personally, I think I'm better for having one. That being said, the above comment is just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my entire life. I'm a compassionate person and I honestly really do care about the sick, starving, underprivileged children of the world. Donating money to help these kids is one thing, but it is certainly no substitute for raising your own child. How the hell can you compare throwing money across the world to caring for, teaching and raising your own child?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

That's probably why most pharm professors are hired straight out of school with no real world basis for what they're teaching. Experience is pointless.

Apple, meet orange. The laws of nature/science aren't dynamic. Human society and its tenants, however, are.

 

[Farmercyst]

Apple, meet orange. The laws of nature/science aren't dynamic. Human society and its tenants, however, are.

The laws may not be, but science most certainly is. Methinks the same goes for parenting. Perhaps it's just a horse of a different color.

 

[SpirivaSunrise]

That's probably why most pharm professors are hired straight out of school with no real world basis for what they're teaching. Experience is pointless.

You were just kidding about this though, right Farmer?

 

[Farmercyst]

You were just kidding about this though, right Farmer?

Sorry, must have forgotten the "" afterwards.

 

[SpirivaSunrise]

Sorry, must have forgotten the "" afterwards.

I figured. Or I was going to start worrying about you USC kids

 

[Farmercyst]

<---Wait, are you saying this USC kid doesn't look well adjusted.

I figured. Or I was going to start worrying about you USC kids

 

[SpirivaSunrise]

<---Wait, are you saying this USC kid doesn't look well adjusted.

No, he's definitely a cutie pie. That green/pink looks like it might clash with cardinal and gold though.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

The laws may not be, but science most certainly is.

The science is most certainly not. Human understanding of it may be, but that's a different animal all together.

Experience as it is useful in clinical pharmacy is defined as the repeated exposure to consistently observed phenomenon. If there was no consistency in science, there would be no possible way to establish standards of practice. Guidelines exist because the science isn't dynamic. Granted, outliers and exceptions occur, but there would be no such thing as a pharmacist if the application of nondynamic experience wasn't the key part of the entire concept.

Methinks the same goes for parenting. Perhaps it's just a horse of a different color.

I agree, but what does "parenting" have to do with what me and Z are talking about? The actual process of raising a child is completely different than the decision process one goes through in which a person decides to have one and, futher, comparing the QoL between having and not having children. And, further, the blathering about being a "lost soul" or whatever. All of that stuff is relative to the person and to their situation. In fact, it is the exact same thing the OP was opposed to. Essentially, other people telling them how they will feel or should feel. It's bull****.

 

[wolingfeng]

Wanting a kid or not is an individual choice.

But I think family is one of the most important thing in our society. Without your parents, how can you live in this world, and without your family, how can you be standing here, typing, and making arguments about not having a kid?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

And what if you want kids but can't find the guy?

"The" guy or just "a" guy? I can find you a guy, easy. Hell, give me 25 seconds and a telephone.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Wanting a kid or not is an individual choice.

Well, not really for men. But that's another can of worms....

But I think family is one of the most important thing in our society.

I always thought that the dominant cultural memes of whatever society one is brought up in is much more important towards what makes a person than anything else. The concept of a nuclear family itself is just a manifestation of these memes. Though using the US as a microcosm, you may be correct.

Without your parents, how can you live in this world, and without your family, how can you be standing here, typing, and making arguments about not having a kid?

Interesting. My parents had me. Albeit I was an accident. But what does that have to do with a choice to not have children yourself? I'm not saying other people shouldn't be allowed to have children, I'm just saying that not having children isn't bad or a "loss of a life experience".

And I'm not currently standing, either.

 

[Epic]

The science is most certainly not. Human understanding of it may be, but that's a different animal all together.

Experience as it is useful in clinical pharmacy is defined as the repeated exposure to consistently observed phenomenon. If there was no consistency in science, there would be no possible way to establish standards of practice. Guidelines exist because the science isn't dynamic. Granted, outliers and exceptions occur, but there would be no such thing as a pharmacist if the application of nondynamic experience wasn't the key part of the entire concept.




I agree, but what does "parenting" have to do with what me and Z are talking about? The actual process of raising a child is completely different than the decision process one goes through in which a person decides to have one and, futher, comparing the QoL between having and not having children. And, further, the blathering about being a "lost soul" or whatever. All of that stuff is relative to the person and to their situation. In fact, it is the exact same thing the OP was opposed to. Essentially, other people telling them how they will feel or should feel. It's bull****.

And how is it any different for you to say we shouldn't have kids rather adopt.

I'm not criticizing your decision to not have kids. At the same time, don't criticize people with desire to have kids. It's none of your business what people do with their lives. I couldn't careless if you have children or not. It's your life. Just don't babble that the world will be a better place if everyone thought like you did. Though, your cynicism does provide slight amusement, once in a while.

 

[Epic]

I'm not saying other people shouldn't be allowed to have children, I'm just saying that not having children isn't bad or a "loss of a life experience".

Well, you did say

What disgusts me is that humanity can't even care for all of its children right now. The world would be much better if everyone in the industrialized world did one thing. Instead of having kids themselves, just skip the complicated pregnancy part, and rather than paying the expensive cost of a child for 18 years, just send $40,000 a year to UNICEF. Rather than two humans, one suffering, one comfortable - you'd just have one comfortable human.

 

[Epic]

More bull****. I could just as easily say an entire life lived without children is something a parent would never know. There is no such thing as nondescriptive emotion. Ok, so you become attached to them. Yeah. It's so hard to describe.

How is it a BS for me to say non parents don't really know what being a parent is like? I know what it's like to be a 25 year old, married with no kids. Because I've been there.

Can you say what it's like to be a 40 year old parent of 2 kids?

Answer that and tell me I'm BSing.

 

[Epic]

And you know what? I'm sure the heck ecstatic that my parents decided to have me. Because I'm here today.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

And how is it any different for you to say we shouldn't have kids rather adopt.

Because that's the entire point. People were expecting her to have children. I'm giving an opposing view. After such, folk around these parts decided to tell me said view was invalid due to things I felt werent' logical and, thus, I began to swifty refute this assertion.

I'm not criticizing your decision to not have kids.

You're kinda are in a way; you are saying I'm too green to know anything. But that's cool, don't mind. Gotta come up with your own way, man.

At the same time, don't criticize people with desire to have kids.

Why not? I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to. I'm just saying that in my opinion the humans we have on the planet should all be taken care of before new ones are made. But, I know, it's anyone else's problem if little Zaikara 8000 miles away lives in famine. You got a stroller and some expensive *** formula to buy. I'm just saying, personally, it much more noble to take care of that kid than to make your own. Other people don't think of **** like that. Which is cool I guess. It's your life and all.

It's none of your business what people do with their lives. I couldn't careless if you have children or not. It's your life.

Agree. But the point of the OP was that people tend to think that the default goal in life is to have the nuclear family and kids and that it annoys her. I just agree and gave another viewpoint. After which that VIEWPOINT was not challenged, but rather the use of the logical fallacy known as appeal to authority was used in an attempt to render the viewpoint intrinsically invalid rather than discussing and judging the viewpoint itself.

Just don't babble that the world will be a better place if everyone thought like you did.

Interesting. Putting words in peoples mouths and ****. Though that's an interesting sentence and concept for multiple reasons.

Though, your cynicism does provide slight amusement, once in a while.

I don't think existence is hostile or benevolent. It's indifferent. I'm not really sure I can be a cynic. Though in reference to some other guy's world view perhaps I am. I'm just bringing up some negative stuff that runs contrary to the standard mores of American living.

It's like politics. Nobody discusses ideas, they just discuss people.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

How is it a BS for me to say non parents don't really know what being a parent is like? I know what it's like to be a 25 year old, married with no kids. Because I've been there.

Can you say what it's like to be a 40 year old parent of 2 kids?

Answer that and tell me I'm BSing.

Actually, your concept of what I am saying is a tad off. You can compare you at 40 to you at 25, fine. But that means little in this discussion. I already explained this in this very thread, in fact. You don't know what it's like to be a 40 year old without children. Children take time away from other life opportunities. If you did not have children, you do not know what other things you may have accomplished or been privy to. Not to mention that all this attempts to transfer the life experiences of one person to another person with an entirely different set of ethics, values, and life experiences. Ergo, one cannot truly tell another person how "they just don't understand" via the use of appeal to authority.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I'm not saying other people shouldn't be allowed to have children, I'm just saying that not having children isn't bad or a "loss of a life experience".
----
Well, you did say
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Instead of having kids themselves, just skip the complicated pregnancy part, and rather than paying the expensive cost of a child for 18 years, just send $40,000 a year to UNICEF. Rather than two humans, one suffering, one comfortable - you'd just have one comfortable human.

One is saying people should be able to do what they want, the other is how I see it. In order to truly not allow people to have children, one would have to make it a law. When did I say I think it's a good idea to legislate my thoughts? That wouldn't be very fair. The theorized antikid act of 2008 going through congress and me saying that having tons of kids while others are starving or have no parents just isn't right aren't the same thing at all. There is a difference between authoritarianism and offering your thoughts on life....but I digress.....