Opening up multiple clinics?

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Have you guys or anyone you guys know opened up multiple psychiatry private practices since it's much easier to do in psychiatry given the low overhead and then staffed them with other docs? I feel like that would be a good idea in order to serve underserved areas while all the while making some extra money. Any thoughts on this?

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Yes this has been done. However, this is not an easy way to make extra money and it is high risk if you do not have an existing model to replicate. Do not be deceived by "low overhead"-- Psychiatry pays overhead in other ways. The answer to your question lies in looking at your balance sheet after you have one clinic that is fully operational.


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Yes this has been done. However, this is not an easy way to make extra money and it is high risk if you do not have an existing model to replicate. Do not be deceived by "low overhead"-- Psychiatry pays overhead in other ways. The answer to your question lies in looking at your balance sheet after you have one clinic that is fully operational.


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Can you explain what you mean psychiatry pays overhead in other ways?
 
Have you guys or anyone you guys know opened up multiple psychiatry private practices since it's much easier to do in psychiatry given the low overhead and then staffed them with other docs? I feel like that would be a good idea in order to serve underserved areas while all the while making some extra money. Any thoughts on this?

Low cost of entry means lots of competition. If you take a big slice off the top, why should newbie psychiatrists come work for you? If you don't take a big slice off the top, then what's in it for you? You're still going to be driving around from clinic to clinic and keeping an eye on everything to protect your interests and avoid lawsuits. I think you're better off having one clinic and running a tight ship.

I have friends who run multiple affiliated clinics in underserved areas, but they all work in procedural specialties and use the multiple clinic locations as feeders for the procedures which actually make all the money. Since psychiatry doesn't have those, I don't think the model makes as much sense.
 
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One location and grow it, and then expand... like your waistline with all that good food after you cash in from others hard work.
Think about office manager and trusted sources along with an army of therapists and NPs.
 
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Healthcare and clinics are profitable on average. 2 main problems:

1. Taking a loss until profitability. You need to pay staff salaries while you grow the different clinics. Expect to lose money for months-years. Psych reimbursement is much higher for FU than new evals.

2. Staff turnover. It can be time intensive to manage/train new staff. If you lose medical staff, it can take awhile to recruit a replacement. Will you pay high locum prices or travel around yourself to staff them as staff leaves.

The number of physicians with the excess cash, time, and business skills to pull this off are quite low.
 
You own multiple clinics?
I see patients at several sleep labs and work at a methadone clinic, in addition to my inpatient positions......not exactly what the op was referring to....but I am just as busy as someone doing what the op suggests
Edit: I read the op quickly and missed the part about the clinics being staffed by other docs
 
One location and grow it, and then expand... like your waistline with all that good food after you cash in from others hard work.
Think about office manager and trusted sources along with an army of therapists and NPs.
^^^ This. You need to run one small business and make your mistakes early and then smooth things out as you grow. Ideally, you want to take your single successful business to the point that it gets as big as is feasible before you open second or more sites.

Also, once you start looking at running multiple sites with a fair number of employees, it becomes less about medicine and more about business. I'm sure doctors do this, but I don't know many. The ones that have been most successful doing this have been run by business folks with doctors working for them. An MD running a network of multiple clinics may be successful, but is likely leaving money on the table.
 
It's not as easy as you think to do this. The profit margin on top of salary is not that high, so the best way to do this is a partnership model rather than clinic model, because other psychiatrists won't work very hard for you if they do so as an employee. In that context, profit margin mainly derive from allied professionals, which is actually not great, especially if you take insurance. In bigger markets, high end cash tends to generate larger revenue than large volume multi-clinic insurance based setup.

Think about this in a different way: a Gucci boutique in Neiman Marcus tends to have higher profit margin than 5 comparable JCPennies. While the market demands fewer of them, it's not necessarily true that the owner at the boutique ends up with less cash year after year. Secondly, it's not always true that business managers make more money than senior technical staff. Very commonly CEOs of hospitals don't make as much money as the orthopedic surgeon (as an example). And the orthopedic surgeon in general invest in passive income instruments other than the hospital/clinic system in which he works. if you put your own money into growing your own clinic, which is strongly affected by various unpredictable factors (i.e. Local insurance market, state mental health regulations, etc.) you lose diversification. You only do this if you are very bullish about the system itself. This is why a most well off senior clinicians don't generally do this. Does this make sense?

Now that said, if your goal isn't to make money, but to figure out a way to disseminate service in underserved areas, then it becomes a different issue. People are actually thinking about this from a research perspective all the time, I.e. If you have a fixed budget, how to care for as many people who live very far apart as possible. It's very complicated and lots of models exist, and there are ongoing studies to figure out the details. This also depends on what kind of services and population you want to serve. This is basically the entirety of mental health services research.
 
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It's not as easy as you think to do this. The profit margin on top of salary is not that high, so the best way to do this is a partnership model rather than clinic model, because other psychiatrists won't work very hard for you if they do so as an employee. In that context, profit margin mainly derive from allied professionals, which is actually not great, especially if you take insurance. In bigger markets, high end cash tends to generate larger revenue than large volume multi-clinic insurance based setup.

Think about this in a different way: a Gucci boutique in Neiman Marcus tends to have higher profit margin than 5 comparable JCPennies. While the market demands fewer of them, it's not necessarily true that the owner at the boutique ends up with less cash year after year. Secondly, it's not always true that business managers make more money than senior technical staff. Very commonly CEOs of hospitals don't make as much money as the orthopedic surgeon (as an example). And the orthopedic surgeon in general invest in passive income instruments other than the hospital/clinic system in which he works. if you put your own money into growing your own clinic, which is strongly affected by various unpredictable factors (i.e. Local insurance market, state mental health regulations, etc.) you lose diversification. You only do this if you are very bullish about the system itself. This is why a most well off senior clinicians don't generally do this. Does this make sense?

Now that said, if your goal isn't to make money, but to figure out a way to disseminate service in underserved areas, then it becomes a different issue. People are actually thinking about this from a research perspective all the time, I.e. If you have a fixed budget, how to care for as many people who live very far apart as possible. It's very complicated and lots of models exist, and there are ongoing studies to figure out the details. This also depends on what kind of services and population you want to serve. This is basically the entirety of mental health services research.

Very interesting, talking strictly about non big city/high end markets, I don't think one could sustain a cash practice that could generate 2M+ in revenues, so then it seems a high volume insurance based multi clinic approach (the one you described), would be the only option since don't single practice setups cap at about 1M in revenue? In other words, could one get to 3 or 4M in revenue in a non big city?
 
How do you prevent doctors at the other sites from seeing patients under the table thus diverting revenue away from you since you can only manage one office at a time?
 
Very interesting, talking strictly about non big city/high end markets, I don't think one could sustain a cash practice that could generate 2M+ in revenues, so then it seems a high volume insurance based multi clinic approach (the one you described), would be the only option since don't single practice setups cap at about 1M in revenue? In other words, could one get to 3 or 4M in revenue in a non big city?

As you said, it's very rare for even top cash psychiatrists to gross more than 1M a year in profit ==> don't have enough time to see patients. On the other hand, it's also rare for a single psychiatrist to own on his own multiple chain clinics that would generate 2M in revenue, especially if they are insurance driven for practical reasons ==> don't have enough time to do all the practice management work. The net-net profit for these two psychiatrists at the end of the day will be similar. In fact, the former will likely win out on a per hour basis, especially if you think about post-tax income. This is why former, while rare, is not nearly as rare as the latter.

That said, it's not rare for psychiatrists to be partners (i.e. not sole owner) in a single specialty or multi-specialty practice group that generates 2M+ in revenue. You can walk into Kaiser today and do exactly that. Your share of the profit on your schedule K is not going to be as high as you imagine.

Yes, if you work really really hard and take on a lot of personal risks, it's more possible to make a much much higher profit if you snowball a large chain of mental health practices. In reality, this is hard for a variety of reasons, and we can go into a lot more details as to why this is, and it's not for a lack of trying, especially in the public sector. The basic reason is that healthcare is a very local and often not very profitable business, and behavioral health even more so. Medicaid/Medicare regulations can be totally different even a few zip codes out. Different locations have vastly different payer mixes and population profiles. It's not like making the same cheeseburger everywhere --> profit. Chains that have been successful are almost ways more specific than general mental health (i.e. substance abuse: Hazelton Betty Ford, eating disorder: Renfrew, etc.) and even then these very rare successful businesses have such thin margins and grow so slowly I can't think of a single "unicorn" company (i.e. 1B+ valuation) of this type that grew from scratch. More common are fixer upper, the obvious stuff that have already been done and always will be done by PEs or other big players: e.g. Bain acquired a bunch of methadone clinics a while back, UHS on a buying spree of behavioral health clinics in the Southwest etc. There's very little creative idea in this space for small time entrepreneurs to get big. Healthcare is just not very scalable like that. Of course, you can slowly grow into a senior management role of a big provider 1) the career path is not very interesting and full of politics 2) doubt will necessarily make more base/total comp than high end cash clinician, esp. if the said big player is a non-profit. That kind of work/career trajectory is just yuck. But hey your milage might differ.

From what I know of startup founders: if you don't build a unicorn, your lifetime earning building 30-100M valuation businesses, especially if they require VC/PE fund raising (and it will if you want to run a chain clinic), which dilutes your capitalization, does not necessarily compare favorably. A regular old busy clinician who pulls in 300-500k either as a cash solo or a partner in an insurance practice, lives a not very conspicuous upper middle class life, and puts the leftover in SPY after 30 years may very well have a higher average net worth. Indeed, the VARIANCE of that net worth will be vastly smaller. It's just not worth it, even from a purely financial perspective. Of course, if you ENJOY running risky business ventures, be my guest: that's completely a separate issue. You are asking why most people don't do this. This is why.

How do you prevent doctors at the other sites from seeing patients under the table thus diverting revenue away from you since you can only manage one office at a time?

You can't prevent your partners/employees from defrauding you. But it would be considered a criminal offense if it's found out (i.e. you are basically stealing...)

In reality, nobody sees patients under the table, because 1) if you are cash you won't be an employee, so you'd be basically stealing from yourself. 2) if you are insurance based, you need the practice's infrastructure for billing, etc. to capture reimbursement. I suppose you could ask patients to surreptitiously give you cash for pills LOL...and I suppose that does indeed occur and get reported in the tabloids...but I think if that's the kind of practice you are running accounting holes in your post-expense profit would be least of your fiscal concerns. You better pay a lot for a quality risk management team.
 
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