Official Diploma Mill List

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BuffaloPills said:
D'Youville College of Pharmacy (3)
University of the Incarnate Word Feik School of Pharmacy (2)
College of Norte Dame School of Pharmacy (2)
Roosevelt University (2)
NEUCOM (2)
Concordia University (2)
Appalachian College of Pharmacy (2)

In order by State: I agree the term diploma mill is being incorrectly used. These schools are all less than 15 years old. I'm certainly not questioning their legitimacy, just listing new schools that by age default would be considered low tier schools.

Harding University
Loma Linda
Pacific university
Western University
Touro-Cal
California Northern State
Regis
Palm Beach Atlantic
South university
University Hawaii Hilo
Chicago State
Southern Illinois
Sullivan University
University of New England
University of Southern Nevada
St. John Fisher
Touro-NY
Wingate
LECOM
Wilkes University
Thomas Jefferson
South Carolina SOP
East Tennessee State
Belmont
Lipscomb
Union University
University of Charleston
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The South Carolina College of Pharmacy is not a diploma mill or a low tier school. It was a merger between the 2 oldest colleges of pharmacy in South Carolina. These were the University of South Carolina College of Pharmacy and the Medical University of South Carolina College of Pharmacy. Both of these schools have been around since the late 1800s. The ACPE made both schools reapply for accreditation since they merged. It is unfair to classify them as diploma mill schools. They also did not increase their class sizes at either campus. The University of South Carolina has always accepted around 100 students, and the number of students with each MUSC class is around 80. South University in Columbia, SC, is a diploma mill. The Presbyterian College School of Pharmacy in SC is also a diploma mill. Both of them take their first class this year. The South Carolina College of Pharmacy has graduated its first class and is fully accredited by the ACPE. Some of our graduates got into some of the best residency programs in the country. When I was accepted in 2006, I remember them telling us there were about 800 people that applied to the USC campus, and only around 100 got in.
 
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I'm still confused on what concerns you have???

If it is too many PharmDs - Shouldn't Nova & UF be on the list (turning out 300 /yr)?

If it isn't the number, maybe it's the age of the school? Pacific has been around since the mid 1800s.

If it isn't the age of the school, maybe it's the private school status. Yeah, that's it. We all know that the level of education found at private schools is inferior to public schools

Listen. Without pharmacy schools regulating themselves (similar to med school), there will be no mitigating the problem. It will be interesting to see whether or not a tier system will develop. I haven't a clue how it would work though.

In Oregon, there are two schools. Both share rotation slots, placing nearly the same number into residency slots. How would a tier system work here when the two schools are batting even?

Regardless - this is a waste of forum space... next time, just read the worthless threads written on this topic previously, then skip posting it.
 
SHC1984 said:
Hey!!! I try to stay off SDN during school, but I am just so addicted to this site! haha...I wish I can play an instrument! I am going to join the APhA, GSHP and hopfully get into Rho Chi next semester. That is all that I am doing....I already did my service learning hours during the summer. For P2 and P3 you are allow to finish your service learning hours during the summer so I already got that done! thank god, b/c second year is 1000000X the busy work of first year. This week isn't very bad yet b/c we haven't started lab, IPPE or any POP activities yet...next week and thereafter is going to be one big BUSY WORK YEAR! I can't wait till I graduate. :rolleyes:

Oh and if you can't find a job it's most likely b/c PCOM is opened now and that adds even more saturation to the already over saturated area we are in. LOL....
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Yeah I think I am going to join GSHP too because they also work with LTC facilities... pretty much everyone I know in my class is joining APhA and GSHP. Some of my friends are doing Kappa Epsilon also.

I rarely go on the internet now that I am back in school. During my year off I accumulated over 2000 posts, but I have a feeling I won't be posting much now. I have IPPE in Spring so I'm going to do all my Service Learning hours now. Everone says its good to get it over with, but I'm kind of glad my IPPE is in Spring because Fall = football season and holidays.

I haven't looked for a job yet because I have a friend coming to visit in around 10 days, but my cousin works at the CDC and he said they have internships for pharmacy so I would pretty much brew coffee all day just to get a job there. lol My break-out group partner just got hired at the Publix near school though, which I kinda wanted to work there, but we'll see. There are other pharmacies I could try... you have to text me the name of the independant you mentioned because I have a replacement phone right now and I accidentally deleted my old texts because it's so hard to use! lol
 
spacecowgirl said:
South Carolina COP is actually a consolidation of USC (founded 1865) and MUSC (founded 1881). I suppose "technically" it's a new school, but really it's two very old schools under one name now.
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GamecockPharmD said:
The South Carolina College of Pharmacy is not a diploma mill or a low tier school. It was a merger between the 2 oldest colleges of pharmacy in South Carolina. These were the University of South Carolina College of Pharmacy and the Medical University of South Carolina College of Pharmacy. Both of these schools have been around since the late 1800s.
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Skimmer! :smuggrin:
 
Tinkerbell22 said:
Yeah I think I am going to join GSHP too because they also work with LTC facilities... pretty much everyone I know in my class is joining APhA and GSHP. Some of my friends are doing Kappa Epsilon also.

I rarely go on the internet now that I am back in school. During my year off I accumulated over 2000 posts, but I have a feeling I won't be posting much now. I have IPPE in Spring so I'm going to do all my Service Learning hours now. Everone says its good to get it over with, but I'm kind of glad my IPPE is in Spring because Fall = football season and holidays.

I haven't looked for a job yet because I have a friend coming to visit in around 10 days, but my cousin works at the CDC and he said they have internships for pharmacy so I would pretty much brew coffee all day just to get a job there. lol My break-out group partner just got hired at the Publix near school though, which I kinda wanted to work there, but we'll see. There are other pharmacies I could try... you have to text me the name of the independant you mentioned because I have a replacement phone right now and I accidentally deleted my old texts because it's so hard to use! lol
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Yeah pretty much everyone is in APhA and GSHP. I don't have time for Kappa E...if I had a lot of time I would do it. LOL...

The pharmacy I was talking was Stacy's Compounding. http://stacyspharmacy.com/ But I am not sure if they are hiring now though b/c I heard they just hired a P3 recently...they were looking for someone during the summer though for the Fall. How's your first year so far?

Yeah I have over 3000 post but I have been here since feb 2007, so that's why. It even had all my posts from when I was a dental student! :laugh:
 
spacecowgirl said:
If the inagural COP class wasn't able to pay with Confederate dollars, you must go to a diploma mill.
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Ok I just burst out laughing in lecture. :laugh::laugh:

I go to the 4th oldest SoP, am I a cool kid now?
 
I am having some difficulty understanding the usefulness of this thread.

Everyone is going to be loyal to the school they are currently attending or the one they graduated from. How many people do you know say at graduation, "thank you for my sub-par education, now I am going to go tell everyone how under-prepared I am for an exciting career in pharmacy!!!!!"

During my experiences on rotations I met several students from other colleges. What I learned was that, while there may be varying amounts of "clinical" training at other schools, there were students from lower tiered schools who sucked and there were students who knew their stuff. I will even say, that on some rotations with other students from my college, I was embarrassed by their lack of knowledge.

I am somewhat embarrassed by this thread and the fact it was started by someone who attends UF. While I agree that applicants need to be aware of the fact that some schools may not have their best interested at hand, this is not the appropriate method of awareness.

I think for the most part, applicants know which schools to avoid, and frankly some don't care. If they don't care, I don't care. I graduated from the Pharmacy College of my choice. I looked at what I needed to get in and made it happen.

I do find it interesting that most of the posts in this thread are from 1st year pharmacy students who, frankly, don't know anything yet. Some people need some hardcore pimping on rotations to knock them down a peg. When an attending physician at a major teaching hospital is done brain-raping you, maybe you will be able to form a more educated opinion.

(smiling due to the elation of using the term BRAIN-RAPING)
 
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kvl1027 said:
I am having some difficulty understanding the usefulness of this thread.

Everyone is going to be loyal to the school they are currently attending or the one they graduated from. How many people do you know say at graduation, "thank you for my sub-par education, now I am going to go tell everyone how under-prepared I am for an exciting career in pharmacy!!!!!"

During my experiences on rotations I met several students from other colleges. What I learned was that, while there may be varying amounts of "clinical" training at other schools, there were students from lower tiered schools who sucked and there were students who knew their stuff. I will even say, that on some rotations with other students from my college, I was embarrassed by their lack of knowledge.

I am somewhat embarrassed by this thread and the fact it was started by someone who attends UF. While I agree that applicants need to be aware of the fact that some schools may not have their best interested at hand, this is not the appropriate method of awareness.

I think for the most part, applicants know which schools to avoid, and frankly some don't care. If they don't care, I don't care. I graduated from the Pharmacy College of my choice. I looked at what I needed to get in and made it happen.

I do find it interesting that most of the posts in this thread are from 1st year pharmacy students who, frankly, don't know anything yet. Some people need some hardcore pimping on rotations to knock them down a peg. When an attending physician at a major teaching hospital is done brain-raping you, maybe able to form a more educated opinion.

(smiling due to the elation of using the term BRAIN-RAPING)
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Agree 100%
 
owlegrad said:
Agree 100%
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the concept of a diploma mill thread is pretty aggravating because it is calling out different schools whose students are members here (except d'youville :laugh:). the thing i really don't like is that the thread starter is almost bragging that he/she goes to UF. while UF is a great school (I go here) there are definitely many equal/better schools out there. now, if there was a thread started by a person that either interviewed/attended a certain school and they were warning applicants about the school... well, that's a different story.

EquateThis said:
Hey guys, I'm a 1PD at UF COP and at orientation the Dean was talking about how we now have to set ourselves apart from what most of us essentially call "pharmacy diploma mills" when it comes to getting a job later.
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the dean did not say anything about the quality of the schools, he just mentioned that there are more schools now and since the job market is tighter it is necessary to go above and beyond while in pharmacy school to separate ourselves from ANY school's graduates. simply going to UF doesn't separate you from other graduates, although i would argue UF has more opportunities than many other schools.
 
BuffaloPills said:
D'Youville College of Pharmacy (3)
University of the Incarnate Word Feik School of Pharmacy (2)
College of Norte Dame School of Pharmacy (2)
Roosevelt University (2)
NEUCOM (2)
Concordia University (2)
Appalachian College of Pharmacy (2)

In order by State: I agree the term diploma mill is being incorrectly used. These schools are all less than 15 years old. I'm certainly not questioning their legitimacy, just listing new schools that by age default would be considered low tier schools.

Harding University
Loma Linda
Pacific university
Western University
Touro-Cal
California Northern State
Regis
Palm Beach Atlantic
South university
University Hawaii Hilo
Chicago State
Southern Illinois
Sullivan University
University of New England
University of Southern Nevada
St. John Fisher
Touro-NY
Wingate
LECOM
Wilkes University
Thomas Jefferson
South Carolina SOP
East Tennessee State
Belmont
Lipscomb
Union University
University of Charleston
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if you use the <15 yrs criteria, you have to add UCSD to the list.
 
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SHC1984 said:
Yeah pretty much everyone is in APhA and GSHP. I don't have time for Kappa E...if I had a lot of time I would do it. LOL...

The pharmacy I was talking was Stacy's Compounding. http://stacyspharmacy.com/ But I am not sure if they are hiring now though b/c I heard they just hired a P3 recently...they were looking for someone during the summer though for the Fall. How's your first year so far?

Yeah I have over 3000 post but I have been here since feb 2007, so that's why. It even had all my posts from when I was a dental student! :laugh:
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I love it so far, but of course we're only really getting into Communication Skills thus far since it's the first major class on the block schedule. I love my classmates and the rest of the school itself though... we have a lot of people I really like, and there's always stuff to do or things going on. They make it really easy to get involved and meet people.

tungsten87 said:
the concept of a diploma mill thread is pretty aggravating because it is calling out different schools whose students are members here (except d'youville :laugh:). the thing i really don't like is that the thread starter is almost bragging that he/she goes to UF. while UF is a great school (I go here) there are definitely many equal/better schools out there. now, if there was a thread started by a person that either interviewed/attended a certain school and they were warning applicants about the school... well, that's a different story.



the dean did not say anything about the quality of the schools, he just mentioned that there are more schools now and since the job market is tighter it is necessary to go above and beyond while in pharmacy school to separate ourselves from ANY school's graduates. simply going to UF doesn't separate you from other graduates, although i would argue UF has more opportunities than many other schools.
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AGREE!
 
MountainPharmD said:
Just becasue you have been around for awhile doesn't mean you are good.

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/02/accrediting_group_puts_xavier.html

February 13, 2009. The accreditation of Xavier University's College of Pharmacy, one of its marquee assets, has been put on probation for the first time in its 82-year existence.
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Okay we were on probation for like 30 to 60 days and the correction was made and it was removed...that's not even in the diploma mill category!

Research please!
 
USN is definitely not a diploma mill!

(And I'm not just saying that because my uncle is the president, lol)
 
Praziquantel86 said:
I want to know what school you're from. You leave very few clues...
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He's made references before that would indicate that he has some sort of connection to the WNY area (said things to criticize D'Youville that only someone from around the area would have been exposed to). My first guess would be UB. Prazi, start beating up people at your school until you get a confession.
 
Unless school has a legitimate NCAA football program, it's a diploma mill...with a few exceptions.. Like UCSF...has Cal..and We'll give UCSD a hitch ride on UCLA.

:idea:
 
Its Z said:
Unless school has a legitimate NCAA football program, it's a diploma mill...with a few exceptions.. Like UCSF...has Cal..and We'll give UCSD a hitch ride on UCLA.

:idea:
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We have a legitimate NCAA rifling program. We could just persuade other schools with football teams to do our bidding with the power of a few certified marksmen/sharpshooters.
 
bacillus1 said:
We have a legitimate NCAA rifling program. We could just persuade other schools with football teams to do our bidding with the power of a few certified marksmen/sharpshooters.
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mmmm...I believe WVU is the perenial NCAA tops in rifles..
 
May I suggest not typing anything about anyone you wouldnt want to read to their face.
 
What a load of crap......"just flat out scary". Give me a break. I guess I'll count myself lucky that I somehow managed to get into the Appalachian College of Pharmacy with a measly 98 on the PCAT and a Physics degree (yes, I could have gone about anywhere I wanted), got an outstanding education, graduated a year earlier than most pharmacy schools, scored a 135 on the Naplex, and have enjoyed working as a pharmacist for a year while most people at other schools are discussing how superior their education is to mine. I feel used..............yeah right! Did I mention full ACPE accreditation also.
 
Deneb625 said:
What a load of crap......"just flat out scary". Give me a break. I guess I'll count myself lucky that I somehow managed to get into the Appalachian College of Pharmacy with a measly 98 on the PCAT and a Physics degree (yes, I could have gone about anywhere I wanted), got an outstanding education, graduated a year earlier than most pharmacy schools, scored a 135 on the Naplex, and have enjoyed working as a pharmacist for a year while most people at other schools are discussing how superior their education is to mine. I feel used..............yeah right! Did I mention full ACPE accreditation also.
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Cool story, bro.
 
no-wai001.jpg
 
D'Youville is about $3,000 more per semester than UB.

I wonder if they get to use electronic balances in lab...
 
Deneb625 said:
What a load of crap......"just flat out scary". Give me a break. I guess I'll count myself lucky that I somehow managed to get into the Appalachian College of Pharmacy with a measly 98 on the PCAT and a Physics degree (yes, I could have gone about anywhere I wanted), got an outstanding education, graduated a year earlier than most pharmacy schools, scored a 135 on the Naplex, and have enjoyed working as a pharmacist for a year while most people at other schools are discussing how superior their education is to mine. I feel used..............yeah right! Did I mention full ACPE accreditation also.
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True that men. All a bunch of crap. Nobody should be calling a new or newer school inferior without actually knowing what they are capable of. This thread is indeed not necessary because just about every new school will receive that perception, which is not always the case. Most people would probably do well in a given program, at the discretion of what a program decides (curving and all), and/or pass the naplex with enough drilling on how to take it. The Naplex is not a measure of quality of education, it's a measure of basic and minimum knowledge required to practice pharmacy. So one cannot really disregard the practices of a lot of newer schools....I'm talking in terms of first hand experience.....I mean what will you think if you know somebody that failed out of medical school, failed dental school, had a hard time getting into more established pharmacy schools but got a swift acceptance at a new pharmacy school. That really happened. What about a school that just pop up in the middle of nowhere at a building that used to be an old warehouse, totally unaffiliated with any other college or undergraduate institution? What about one established on what used to be the cardiology floor of a community hospital? You would think if there really was a need, somehow there will be some sound investment in infrastructure. But you really can't shake the feeling that these things are driven by pure profit and a quick buck, and that really could affect quality no doubt. Your institution is probably one of the better schools, but the examples I gave above are realities, and there are even more schools that have unique weird stories to them that will make you wonder....
 
Deneb625 said:
What a load of crap......"just flat out scary". Give me a break. I guess I'll count myself lucky that I somehow managed to get into the Appalachian College of Pharmacy with a measly 98 on the PCAT and a Physics degree (yes, I could have gone about anywhere I wanted), got an outstanding education, graduated a year earlier than most pharmacy schools, scored a 135 on the Naplex, and have enjoyed working as a pharmacist for a year while most people at other schools are discussing how superior their education is to mine. I feel used..............yeah right! Did I mention full ACPE accreditation also.
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It's not that you're wrong or inferior in any way. I think a lot of the stuff posted here is misdirected anger toward students of newer pharmacy schools when people are really angry at the bigger picture; the sheer volume of new graduates being pumped out with the addition of new pharmacy schools, contributing to making finding a new job with a 20k sign-on bonus out of reach, or even just a decent job in their locale of choice. The anger is understood, as with any area of life, when some new talent encroaches on the territory of the older and established people in place that threatens to upset how things have been going.

The fact is, only time will tell whether these new schools are going to be to blame for a serious lack of jobs. However, to simply pick these new schools as the primary target of outrage shows a lack of foresight as to why these conditions are actually in place today. Obviously, a recession is one reason. The only recession-proof job is being a trust-fund brat. Secondly, economic situations tend to move in cycles. Unless you're a major stock-holder for wal-mart or mcdonald's, your chosen area of economic profit is going to have ups and downs, on both a micro-level (currently pharmacy, but barely - people can still find jobs, there's no complete saturation yet) and a macro-level (the entire economy - low GDP, high inflation, you get the rest.) Another huge reason this is in place, that you'll be hard pressed to find a pharmacist to admit, is that there have not been enough unionizations/fair-practice laws established to protect pharmacists who work for the largest employer of pharmacists today; chain-retail. Obviously, Sen. Dumb-ass from your state isn't going to know anything about pharmacists working conditions, other than "they count pills all day and make 6 figures", so it was up to the working pharmacists and their professional organizations to put better laws in place to protect our profession against corporate greed. I'm not going to entirely blame them though - people generally don't have that kind of foresight until it's too late, especially when the hand that feeds is paying you ridiculous sums of money. Looking back on it now, it's almost like dealing with a loan shark; pharmacists took the money, and now they're getting paid in spades with lay-offs to dupe the newly-minted grads into even worse conditions.

This already went on too long; I wouldn't even want to read it again. The fact is, it isn't too late to save this thing. We need to get some balls, gird our loins, and fight these corporate thieves hard. They aren't idiots; and if you think for a second they have your best interests in mind, you need to take a class on the history of corporate America. Add that in with a growing population, possible residency for millions of illegals, this whole health-care overhaul debacle, and you have Schrodinger's equation; you can't pinpoint either the exact point or momentum of where this whole thing is going. But you can know a little about each, and sometimes that's the best you can do. Study hard.
 
Deneb625 said:
What a load of crap......"just flat out scary". Give me a break. I guess I'll count myself lucky that I somehow managed to get into the Appalachian College of Pharmacy with a measly 98 on the PCAT and a Physics degree (yes, I could have gone about anywhere I wanted), got an outstanding education, graduated a year earlier than most pharmacy schools, scored a 135 on the Naplex, and have enjoyed working as a pharmacist for a year while most people at other schools are discussing how superior their education is to mine. I feel used..............yeah right! Did I mention full ACPE accreditation also.
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I've have two kids from Appalachia come through at my old hospital. And they both underwhelmed me to the point of literally making me scared of them. Maybe I got a bad bunch...but it is what it is...you ask a kid what amlodipine does and they say "I don't know"...sorry, but that has an effect on what you think of a school.
 
apteryx said:
This already went on too long; I wouldn't even want to read it again. The fact is, it isn't too late to save this thing. We need to get some balls, gird our loins, and fight these corporate thieves hard. They aren't idiots; and if you think for a second they have your best interests in mind, you need to take a class on the history of corporate America. Add that in with a growing population, possible residency for millions of illegals, this whole health-care overhaul debacle, and you have Schrodinger's equation; you can't pinpoint either the exact point or momentum of where this whole thing is going. But you can know a little about each, and sometimes that's the best you can do. Study hard.
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How?
I have talked to my state pharmacy organization, and they're not willing to take on the issue (as they say it's not feasible to push through, and in addition the chains have the money to finance much beneficial pharmacy legislation). So what other avenue do we have if we don't have existing lobbyist groups to back us up? The people at the state pharmacy org. said that the only way to push the issue of chain abuse would be to find a study that shows that the working conditions increase the amt. of errors.
 
bacillus1 said:
). So what other avenue do we have if we don't have existing lobbyist groups to back us up? The people at the state pharmacy org. said that the only way to push the issue of chain abuse would be to find a study that shows that the working conditions increase the amt. of errors.
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That sounds like a case for the Academia douchebags! Oh, wait, they are too busy telling students that retail is beneath everyone with a PharmD and marginalizing that entire part of the profession. Right, sorry.
 
apteryx said:
It's not that you're wrong or inferior in any way. I think a lot of the stuff posted here is misdirected anger toward students of newer pharmacy schools when people are really angry at the bigger picture; the sheer volume of new graduates being pumped out with the addition of new pharmacy schools, contributing to making finding a new job with a 20k sign-on bonus out of reach, or even just a decent job in their locale of choice. The anger is understood, as with any area of life, when some new talent encroaches on the territory of the older and established people in place that threatens to upset how things have been going.

The fact is, only time will tell whether these new schools are going to be to blame for a serious lack of jobs. However, to simply pick these new schools as the primary target of outrage shows a lack of foresight as to why these conditions are actually in place today. Obviously, a recession is one reason. The only recession-proof job is being a trust-fund brat. Secondly, economic situations tend to move in cycles. Unless you're a major stock-holder for wal-mart or mcdonald's, your chosen area of economic profit is going to have ups and downs, on both a micro-level (currently pharmacy, but barely - people can still find jobs, there's no complete saturation yet) and a macro-level (the entire economy - low GDP, high inflation, you get the rest.) Another huge reason this is in place, that you'll be hard pressed to find a pharmacist to admit, is that there have not been enough unionizations/fair-practice laws established to protect pharmacists who work for the largest employer of pharmacists today; chain-retail. Obviously, Sen. Dumb-ass from your state isn't going to know anything about pharmacists working conditions, other than "they count pills all day and make 6 figures", so it was up to the working pharmacists and their professional organizations to put better laws in place to protect our profession against corporate greed. I'm not going to entirely blame them though - people generally don't have that kind of foresight until it's too late, especially when the hand that feeds is paying you ridiculous sums of money. Looking back on it now, it's almost like dealing with a loan shark; pharmacists took the money, and now they're getting paid in spades with lay-offs to dupe the newly-minted grads into even worse conditions.

This already went on too long; I wouldn't even want to read it again. The fact is, it isn't too late to save this thing. We need to get some balls, gird our loins, and fight these corporate thieves hard. They aren't idiots; and if you think for a second they have your best interests in mind, you need to take a class on the history of corporate America. Add that in with a growing population, possible residency for millions of illegals, this whole health-care overhaul debacle, and you have Schrodinger's equation; you can't pinpoint either the exact point or momentum of where this whole thing is going. But you can know a little about each, and sometimes that's the best you can do. Study hard.
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I don't think this is misdirected anger at all, and I certainly don't link my feelings towards new schools of pharmacy with the healthcare debate and illegal immigration. I disliked the idea of new pharmacy schools well before Obama was elected.

My problem is this - we all went through a substantial amount of effort (and still are) in order to obtain a difficult degree; one that indicates we are experts in out field. We're only just now getting to the point where a reasonable amount of physicians, nurses, etc. are recognizing us as such.

New schools are pumping out graduates of questionable educational quality at rapidly increasing rates. These graduates are serving as ambassadors of the pharmacy profession, and when they don't know what they're talking about, then it reflects poorly on all of us.

Do I have anything more than anecdote to back up the poor educational quality of the graduates? No, because the only benchmark is an examination that nearly any P2 student from a decent school should be able to pass no problem - it's minimum competency, not best practices. I realize that even the very "good" schools may produce poor graduates, and that bothers me too. With the new schools, the poor students are less and less the exception and more and more the standard. It shouldn't be that way.
 
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Praziquantel86 said:
My problem is this - we all went through a substantial amount of effort (and still am) in order to obtain a difficult degree; one that indicates we are experts in out field. We're only just now getting to the point where a reasonable amount of physicians, nurses, etc. are recognizing us as such.

New schools are pumping out graduates of questionable educational quality at rapidly increasing rates. These graduates are serving as ambassadors of the pharmacy profession, and when they don't know what they're talking about, then it reflects poorly on all of us.
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I couldn't agree with you more. even at the best schools there are still students who simply cannot, for whatever reason, master the material and apply it to practice. I've met some incredible pharmacy students but I've also seen a lot who don't have a passion and it is definitely apparent. With the latter going out into practice, it really is scary knowing some of these people will be making decisions that can result in life/death. When you take a step back and look at the situation you describe (knowing how terrible some students are on rotations), it really is hard to immediately refute some of the physicians that post negative comments in here... they probably had an experience with the type of pharmacist you describe. don't get me wrong though, I've also seen some docs post on here about how they can't live without their clinical pharmacist, but these probably have had experiences with top-notch pharmacists, which may or may not be the minority.
 
Add the University of Oklahoma to that list. I have worked with many OU pharmacists and they have to be the dumbest, most incompetent people I have ever been around.

Especially the recent grads, they know absolutely nothing. I'd hire a SWOSU or TTU grad before an OU grad any day of the week.
 
I can't argue with that I suppose. well, I guess I could, but that would only serve to make me look like an even bigger idiot. I've seen these students already in my class (not many, maybe 2 or 3), and they're either going to change their ways, or get their asses kicked out of the school I hope. Unemployed people already overwhelmed P1 year because there are a couple of quizzes tomorrow and next week? Wow...

so what could we do about this? get the WVU gunmen to take over the ACPE and force them to stop accrediting schools? why are they doing it anyway, more money? there has to be a way we can put better standards in place, and I refuse to sit here and watch my imminent profession fall any further down the crapper. I mean, I still don't blame it all on new schools, I'm just pissed when I look at the many inherent flaws in the field of pharmacy that other health professions have managed to "iron out" to one degree or another. I sound like the pump-up-the-crowd guy before the climactic fight of a bad summer blockbuster, but the flaws are so obvious to me. kick these pansies out of the way that don't do anything for us and get to work.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
I've have two kids from Appalachia come through at my old hospital. And they both underwhelmed me to the point of literally making me scared of them. Maybe I got a bad bunch...but it is what it is...you ask a kid what amlodipine does and they say "I don't know"...sorry, but that has an effect on what you think of a school.
Click to expand...

I was underwhelmed when a couple of LECOM students who were rotating did not know what a DVT was. There are good and bad students at every school, but I was a little scared. I'm hoping this is not the standard.
 
Sparda29 said:
We have the electronic ones also but they still make us train with the torsion balances because the state doesn't want to move to electronic balances despite the advantages.
Click to expand...

We trained initially on a torsion balance, then once we were proficient they pulled out the nice electronic ones. I think it is good for every pharmacist to know how to use a torsion balance, but I don't like to use them.
 
Sparda29 said:
We have the electronic ones also but they still make us train with the torsion balances because the state doesn't want to move to electronic balances despite the advantages.
Click to expand...

I was actually told that the part 3 exam was going to start using the analytical balances next year, which is why UB had to get them now.

As of now this is hearsay (a friend who's TAing lab was told by a professor) so I'm not 100%, but it would be nice if NYS was a little progressive now and then, so here's to hoping.
 
ttopping said:
I was actually told that the part 3 exam was going to start using the analytical balances next year, which is why UB had to get them now.

As of now this is hearsay (a friend who's TAing lab was told by a professor) so I'm not 100%, but it would be nice if NYS was a little progressive now and then, so here's to hoping.
Click to expand...

I had heard the same thing, that the class of 2012 would be using analytical balances for Part 3. Then again, they kept saying for years that it would happen, so who knows if this is confirmed or just people being really optimstic and hopeful.
 
sakigt said:
May I suggest not typing anything about anyone you wouldnt want to read to their face.
Click to expand...

Been there, done that...

And if one of those parasites trying to open a new school solely to make a tidy profit for themselves and their investors in the face of an impending surplus was within 300 yards of me, they'd know my opinion right fast...
 
I once worked with a pharmacist who didn't know that lesbians menstruate!

:wow:
 
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