Official 2011-2012 IM "How To Rank" Thread

[jdh71]

Is it fair to say that UVA = Mayo = UNC = UAB in terms of placement power for a cards or GI fellowship (assuming that I perform well as a resident at those places)?

Thanks again.

Probably close enough

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[Zebda]

Nephro vs endocrine vs heme/onco...

Sorry, not sure if this got skipped, so here goes again:

Thinking endocrine vs heme/onc vs nephrology (in that order lol)

My ROL:

1. UVA
2. Brown
3. Maryland
4. Thomas Jefferson
5. Rush
6. Tufts
7. Minnesota
8. Jackson Memorial Hospital
9. Temple
10. UIC
11. UT Houston

Not sure if I should switch UVA and Brown with regards to their prestige, or Tufts and Minnesota...

 

[jdh71]

Nephro vs endocrine vs heme/onco...

Sorry, not sure if this got skipped, so here goes again:

Thinking endocrine vs heme/onc vs nephrology (in that order lol)

My ROL:

1. UVA
2. Brown
3. Maryland
4. Thomas Jefferson
5. Rush
6. Tufts
7. Minnesota
8. Jackson Memorial Hospital
9. Temple
10. UIC
11. UT Houston

Not sure if I should switch UVA and Brown with regards to their prestige, or Tufts and Minnesota...

You've got to go with your gut. Brown is a really nice program, but it's not quite on the same reputation level as UVA, so as long as you liked UVA better, no real problem. Minn carries more rep than Tufts, so everything being equal, you should switch the two, but if you liked Tufts more than Minn, then keep it.

 

[Zebda]

jdh71,

Thank you so much for your insight! We're certainly keeping you busy today! I'm sure everyone else appreciates your help as well!

To be fair, I also had a hard time putting Maryland above Jefferson, just because I liked Philly so much more than Baltimore. If I'm not mistaken, they always match fairly similar for fellowships... What's your take?

 

[jdh71]

jdh71,

Thank you so much for your insight! We're certainly keeping you busy today! I'm sure everyone else appreciates your help as well!

To be fair, I also had a hard time putting Maryland above Jefferson, just because I liked Philly so much more than Baltimore. If I'm not mistaken, they always match fairly similar for fellowships... What's your take?

Eh. I kind of like Maryland better, honestly. You need to go where you'll like it. If you can't stand the thought of living in b-more then don't do it.

 

[member5224]

Does anyone have feedback on any of the following programs: Drexel, Beth Israel in NY, or Lenox Hill? Thanks!

 

[Instatewaiter]

Is it fair to say that UVA = Mayo = UNC = UAB in terms of placement power for a cards or GI fellowship (assuming that I perform well as a resident at those places)?

Thanks again.

I don't think you are going to be hurting for interviews coming from UVA. I do think Mayo has a better cards program and *may* give you a slight edge but Charlottesville is a beautiful area and a great place to live. I know if I had the decision to make I'd choose UVA.

In terms of ease to live in, I think Charlottesville > Raleigh >> Birmingham and Rochester

jdh71,

Thank you so much for your insight! We're certainly keeping you busy today! I'm sure everyone else appreciates your help as well!

To be fair, I also had a hard time putting Maryland above Jefferson, just because I liked Philly so much more than Baltimore. If I'm not mistaken, they always match fairly similar for fellowships... What's your take?

It looks to me like Maryland does have a stronger history of matching than Jeff.

Baltimore and Philly are very, very different places. If you think you won't like baltimore, don't rank maryland as high. As someone who lives in Baltimore currently, I have to say the hype about Baltimore being a crappy city is overblown. I've been pretty happy here.

 

[KRichards62]

I do think Mayo has a better cards program and *may* give you a slight edge but Charlottesville is a beautiful area and a great place to live.

In terms of ease to live in, I think Charlottesville > Raleigh >> Birmingham and Rochester

The cards reputation is a mixed bag - I've heard attendings say they would never consider an IM resident from Mayo. Presumably because of the perceived "cush" residency and fear that they would be getting a product that "doesn't know how to work". That being said, Mayo is a top notch cards department and getting letters from well known leaders in the field is certainly a plus. I've always viewed Mayo as a great place to do fellowship, but less-so for IM residency.

As far as "ease to live in" I would say all of those cities are very comparable, just very different styles.

 

[nocturnal55]

for the other ppl who have spent weeks confused over your rank lists like i did (i hope i'm not the only indecisive one!), did you all decide not to send your top school an email informing them that you would be ranking them #1? i'm wondering if it's worthless at this point to send a you are my #1 email out as it is almost the monday before the rank lists are to be turned in...

 

[gutonc]

for the other ppl who have spent weeks confused over your rank lists like i did (i hope i'm not the only indecisive one!), did you all decide not to send your top school an email informing them that you would be ranking them #1? i'm wondering if it's worthless at this point to send a you are my #1 email out as it is almost the monday before the rank lists are to be turned in...

It is likely too late. And it likely would not have made any difference.

 

[bostampa2007]

few questions about this program:

1. why is this program categorized as "community based" according to freida - they have their own med school and fellowship

2. apparently, it is not a very rigorous program in terms of work load??

3. how does this program rank in comparison with:

NJMS, Newark, UMDNJ
East Carolina University
Beth Israel, Albert Einstein SOM
Washington Hospital Center

Thanks a bunch guys

 

[bostampa2007]

please rank the number one from each of these pairs based on program strengths/reputation!!

Between these two:

NJMS, Newark or East Carolina University

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and these two:

EVMS or Carilion Clinic-Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and these two:

VCU or RWJ, new brunswick

thanks guys

 

[Eruethemar]

Current drama is with my #1 v #2:

Nwestern vs. UPenn

- general opinions would help, but anything ya'll have heard about whether or not *fun* people are happy at the program because they manage to still have lives would be useful. Also commentary about the cities!

(I'm Internal Med --> Pulm/cc >>> Cards)

3. UW (seattle)
4. UCSD
5. Brown
6. Tulane: PD is great, mission statement of program is fantastic
7. Colorado: Didn't like Denver as much as I thought I would
8. Miami
9. UChicago: got a very "here we eat, live, poop medicine - woe be to all who attempt to have a life" vibe from them and their residents the night of the dinner. Failboat.
10/11: they're already solid, so no point in listin' 'em.

 

[vertigotastic]

As has been said before, if you're an excellent resident, it opens doors for fellowship. It might be difficult to climb from a UConn or UMass to a place like Hopkins or Penn or UW for fellowship (depending on what you want to do, of course - if you're into Rheum or Endo the world is wide open), but then I imagine that you'll be dealing with similar "couples issues" come fellowship time, and that Mass/Conn area can't be beat for density of fellowships in that area of NE. Hell just in the city of Boston there's the Harvards, BU, UMass, and Tufts (did I miss one?) all of which have fellowships for instance.

I think you'll be fine.

Thank you so much, jdh! That makes me feel more calm about this whole process. You are a big help to all of us!!!!

 

[zaid84]

internal medicine , fellowship interest cards
suny downstate Brooklyn
southern illinois university
mount Sinai elmhurst
mount sinai englewood

 

[medicinelover1]

Last minute thoughts about switching Upenn and Duke. Suggestions?

 

[gutonc]

Last minute thoughts about switching Upenn and Duke. Suggestions?

Which one did you like more? Rank it first. You know full well that they are virtually identical in all meaningful ways.

 

[medicinelover1]

Which one did you like more? Rank it first. You know full well that they are virtually identical in all meaningful ways.

I know... just getting nervous as the deadline nears

 

[damascus1986]

Hey guys, I hope you are having a great time ranking your list since i keep chaning mine for the 5th time . I am interested in cardio, and I have family in michigan so ohio would be the best bet for me but what would you guys say if I have my list this way::: so here it goes

CCF
Ohio state
U minnesota
Indiana
U- Florida Gainsville
UIC
U- Cincinnati
U Mass
DMC
Baystate
Beaumont
Oakwood

your input would be very appreciated

 

[gutonc]

internal medicine , fellowship interest cards
suny downstate Brooklyn
southern illinois university
mount Sinai elmhurst
mount sinai englewood

These are all equally mediocre program. You are likely to have to put in time as a chief to get an internal cards spot but, as long as the program offers them (Downstate does, I have no idea about the others), go nuts.

Also, Elmhurst Hospital is marginally affiliated with Mt. Sinai. Englewood is an "In Name Only" affiliation, don't get too excited by their titles.

 

[gutonc]

Hey guys, I hope you are having a great time ranking your list since i keep chaning mine for the 5th time . I am interested in cardio, and I have family in michigan so ohio would be the best bet for me but what would you guys say if I have my list this way::: so here it goes

CCF
Ohio state
U minnesota
Indiana
U- Florida Gainsville
UIC
U- Cincinnati
U Mass
DMC
Baystate
Beaumont
Oakwood

your input would be very appreciated

Is DMC Dartmouth? If so, swap it and CCF and you're in good shape.

If DMC is some other place I've never heard of, put CCF between UMass and DMC and call it a day.

 

[gutonc]

I know... just getting nervous as the deadline nears

#firstworldproblems

 

[davec1460]

These are all equally mediocre program. You are likely to have to put in time as a chief to get an internal cards spot but, as long as the program offers them (Downstate does, I have no idea about the others), go nuts.

Also, Elmhurst Hospital is marginally affiliated with Mt. Sinai. Englewood is an "In Name Only" affiliation, don't get too excited by their titles.

I wouldn't call them all equally mediocre programs. Of the four Downstate is the only true University program with 9 Cardiology spots (possibly going up to 11 if Downstate cardiology merges with LICH cardiology). I know nothing about the illinois program though.

david
pgy-1 suny downstate IM

 

[damascus1986]

Is DMC Dartmouth? If so, swap it and CCF and you're in good shape.

If DMC is some other place I've never heard of, put CCF between UMass and DMC and call it a day.

DMC is Detroit Medical Center. I am highly considering CCF because it has the best Cardio match so far. but probably will be putting Minnesota before it.

Thanks for the input

 

[MedicineAppl]

Hi everyone, thanks to everyone who is providing some great info!

I was wondering what people thought of UCSD vs. UTSW for someone interested in heme/onc. Either one jump out at you as much better than the other? Thanks!

 

[pntgrd]

UTSW's name is bigger if fellowship choices are your main concern. But your life at UCSD for those 3 years would be a lot nicer.

 

[Instatewaiter]

please rank the number one from each of these pairs based on program strengths/reputation!!

Between these two:

NJMS, Newark or East Carolina University

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and these two:

EVMS or Carilion Clinic-Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and these two:

VCU or RWJ, new brunswick

thanks guys

VCU>RWJ
Carilion > EVMS

NJMS or ECU... don't know enough about the programs. I recognize ECU b/c it is around where I am from but other than that...?

 

[Instatewaiter]

Current drama is with my #1 v #2:

Nwestern vs. UPenn

- general opinions would help, but anything ya'll have heard about whether or not *fun* people are happy at the program because they manage to still have lives would be useful. Also commentary about the cities!

(I'm Internal Med --> Pulm/cc >>> Cards)

3. UW (seattle)
4. UCSD
5. Brown
6. Tulane: PD is great, mission statement of program is fantastic
7. Colorado: Didn't like Denver as much as I thought I would
8. Miami
9. UChicago: got a very "here we eat, live, poop medicine - woe be to all who attempt to have a life" vibe from them and their residents the night of the dinner. Failboat.
10/11: they're already solid, so no point in listin' 'em.

Penn > Northwestern but as I have said earlier on the thread, the NW grads I have met have been very good. Still Penn> NW

The rest looks good.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Last minute thoughts about switching Upenn and Duke. Suggestions?

Comparable programs, both with big names.

Penn gives me a *more* laid back vibe but I think it is far from laid back. Duke is not laid back.

Clinical training wise... maybe duke has the edge but it's negligible

Academic wise- about equal

 

[butterfinger]

UTSW's name is bigger if fellowship choices are your main concern. But your life at UCSD for those 3 years would be a lot nicer.

Although UTSW's name is bigger, would the lack of time to do research due to the clinical rigor of the program put it at a disadvantage for competitive fellowships (cards, GI, H/O) compared to a program like UCSD with a lesser known name but allows for 2 months of research during R2 for those interested?

 

[Instatewaiter]

Hey guys, I hope you are having a great time ranking your list since i keep chaning mine for the 5th time . I am interested in cardio, and I have family in michigan so ohio would be the best bet for me but what would you guys say if I have my list this way::: so here it goes

CCF
Ohio state
U minnesota
Indiana
U- Florida Gainsville
UIC
U- Cincinnati
U Mass
DMC
Baystate
Beaumont
Oakwood

your input would be very appreciated

Is DMC Dartmouth? If so, swap it and CCF and you're in good shape.

If DMC is some other place I've never heard of, put CCF between UMass and DMC and call it a day.

While I think the clinical training at CCF isn't the greatest, if you want to stick with your geographic restrictions it probably is one of the better options for you.

Here are match lists from
OSU- http://internalmedicine.osu.edu/education/welcome/our-residents/going/
CCF- http://my.clevelandclinic.org/internal_medicine_residency/fellowship-match.aspx
Uminn- http://www.medres.umn.edu/aboutourresidents/fellowships/home.html
Indiana- http://medicine.iupui.edu/residency/people/graduates/matches.aspx

Looking at these lists my feeling on strength of match lists: Minnesota > or = CCF> Indiana > OSU

From you restrictions, reputation, match lists I say:
CCF or Minn
Indiana
OSU
Rest how you have it

 

[spherocyte]

Would be grateful to hear what thoughts are on Virginia Mason in Seattle and Providence in Portland. I did a search in the forums too but curious about the following:

1. How well regarded these programs are
2. Disadvantages of not being affiliated with university system
3. How well trained you will be

Thank you very much!!

 

[Instatewaiter]

Hi everyone, thanks to everyone who is providing some great info!

I was wondering what people thought of UCSD vs. UTSW for someone interested in heme/onc. Either one jump out at you as much better than the other? Thanks!

Although UTSW's name is bigger, would the lack of time to do research due to the clinical rigor of the program put it at a disadvantage for competitive fellowships (cards, GI, H/O) compared to a program like UCSD with a lesser known name but allows for 2 months of research during R2 for those interested?

I think UTSW has a bigger name nationally and a better reputation clinically.

The places the grads from UTSW are really big name places, much bigger than UCSD despite being all the way in Texas. (http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/utsw/cda/dept26481/files/523535.html)


Clinical training- UTSW
Academics- UTSW
Matching- UTSW
Location- UCSD
Overall- UTSW

 

[Elixir86]

Comparable programs, both with big names.

Penn gives me a *more* laid back vibe but I think it is far from laid back. Duke is not laid back.

Clinical training wise... maybe duke has the edge but it's negligible

Academic wise- about equal

Can you specify what you mean by Duke not being "laid back?" I agree that from what I've heard, it's no cake walk, but what have you heard about the program or is there anything we should be concerned about?

 

[damascus1986]

While I think the clinical training at CCF isn't the greatest, if you want to stick with your geographic restrictions it probably is one of the better options for you.

Here are match lists from
OSU- http://internalmedicine.osu.edu/education/welcome/our-residents/going/
CCF- http://my.clevelandclinic.org/internal_medicine_residency/fellowship-match.aspx
Uminn- http://www.medres.umn.edu/aboutourresidents/fellowships/home.html
Indiana- http://medicine.iupui.edu/residency/people/graduates/matches.aspx

Looking at these lists my feeling on strength of match lists: Minnesota > or = CCF> Indiana > OSU

From you restrictions, reputation, match lists I say:
CCF or Minn
Indiana
OSU
Rest how you have it

thanks a lot for your reply but as a follow up question if we took location out of consideration
So if you rank them based on the best clinical training would they be
Minn
OSU
CCF
Indiana

???

 

[obiwan]

Although UTSW's name is bigger, would the lack of time to do research due to the clinical rigor of the program put it at a disadvantage for competitive fellowships (cards, GI, H/O) compared to a program like UCSD with a lesser known name but allows for 2 months of research during R2 for those interested?

again, i don't think that there is a lack of research time. pretty much everyone who is pursuing fellowship is involved in some sort of research and as you can see, we match at top tier programs in all specialties.

 

[MedicineAppl]

I think UTSW has a bigger name nationally and a better reputation clinically.

The places the grads from UTSW are really big name places, much bigger than UCSD despite being all the way in Texas. (http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/utsw/cda/dept26481/files/523535.html)


Clinical training- UTSW
Academics- UTSW
Matching- UTSW
Location- UCSD
Overall- UTSW

Thanks for your input, that's kind of the impression I had, I'm just trying to weigh that location factor against the rest.

 

[jdh71]

Hey guys, I hope you are having a great time ranking your list since i keep chaning mine for the 5th time . I am interested in cardio, and I have family in michigan so ohio would be the best bet for me but what would you guys say if I have my list this way::: so here it goes

CCF
Ohio state
U minnesota
Indiana
U- Florida Gainsville
UIC
U- Cincinnati
U Mass
DMC
Baystate
Beaumont
Oakwood

your input would be very appreciated

Ugh. CCF so high? Look, if you loved the program - fine - but if not, don't do that. Put CCF under Indy and call it a day. I might move Minne up, but THE Ohio State is a nice place.

 

[jdh71]

Hi everyone, thanks to everyone who is providing some great info!

I was wondering what people thought of UCSD vs. UTSW for someone interested in heme/onc. Either one jump out at you as much better than the other? Thanks!

UTSW > UCSD for national rep

but who'd want to live in Dallas when you can sun your nutz in San Diego?

I don't know who's got the better heme/onc program, but I bet UTSW matches "better" - ie more folks to Fox Chase, Sloan Kettering, MD Anderson, etc., but I don't know. How much research do you want to do in fellowship anyway? If all you're interested in is a heme/onc spot somewhere, and maybe even SoCal, then you can't go wrong with UCSD.

 

[MedicineAppl]

UTSW > UCSD for national rep

but who'd want to live in Dallas when you can sun your nutz in San Diego?

I don't know who's got the better heme/onc program, but I bet UTSW matches "better" - ie more folks to Fox Chase, Sloan Kettering, MD Anderson, etc., but I don't know. How much research do you want to do in fellowship anyway? If all you're interested in is a heme/onc spot somewhere, and maybe even SoCal, then you can't go wrong with UCSD.

Ha exactly my dilemma.

 

[Voltaire2]

1. NYU; 2. UM/Jackson Memorial; 3. WashU; 4. St Lukes Roosevelt
Interested in Global/Public Hlth. Partner needs non-medical position in same city

 

[Voltaire2]

1. NYU; 2. UM/Jackson Memorial; 3. WashU; 4. St Lukes Roosevelt
Interested in Global/Public Hlth. Partner needs non-medical position in same city

 

[applegeek1234]

.

 

[go lakers]

UTSW > UCSD for national rep

but who'd want to live in Dallas when you can sun your nutz in San Diego?

I don't know who's got the better heme/onc program, but I bet UTSW matches "better" - ie more folks to Fox Chase, Sloan Kettering, MD Anderson, etc., but I don't know. How much research do you want to do in fellowship anyway? If all you're interested in is a heme/onc spot somewhere, and maybe even SoCal, then you can't go wrong with UCSD.

plus, FWIW ucsd's PD is heme-onc herself.

 

[DrVanNostran]

I'm having a tough time between Baylor vs Emory vs OSU Vs Case. How would rank these based on lifestyle? I am pretty sure the strength factor goes Baylor=Emory>OSU=Case. With all things considered, I was thinking: OSU, Baylor, Case, Emory?

Wild Card: University of Chicago-Northshore: I actually LOVED this program. If they had an attached H/O fellowship they would be number 1 or 2. They said in the past few years, they have had no problems with H/O. Here is how they matched in the past 4 years:
2011: Rochester, UChicago
2010: 2 Northwestern, Beumont, NYU
2009: No one
2008: Northwestern, MCW

How would you place Northshore? I would love to be in Chicago, I loved the program, no H/O fellowship but a decent match list.

I am pretty sure this is my Top 10, I haven't changed it in a bit so I feel good:

1. Rush-loved this program, plus its in Chicago
2. UIC-I would really prefer to be in Chicago close to home. I loved this program. The main negative of UIC were the facilities and support staff, this made Rush hit number 1.
3. UC Irvine-absolutely loved this program, location
4. Mayo-Great program, awesome PD, Rochester was the breaking point to drop to number 4
5. OHSU-Best PD I have met, 3+! is pretty cool. I love Portland, my wife loves the OC. The compromise was UCI then Mayo then OHSU.
6. Wisconsin-Great PD, Close to Chicago
7-10 Baylor vs Emory Vs Case vs OSU

11-16: Some great program in here, but I the above 10 hit a nice cord with me.

 

[drrockstar140]

I'm just looking for a last minute blessing (or outcry) on my list. Interested in primary care, heme/onc....endo?

1. Mayo Arizona
2. Wisconsin PC
3. Wisconsin Categorical
4. Utah
5. Arizona
6. OSU PC
7. OSU Categorical
8. Minnesota
9. Providence Portland
10. Providence St. V
11. UNM
12. Banner Good Sam (Phoenix)

 

[raj007ml]

thanks a lot for your reply but as a follow up question if we took location out of consideration
So if you rank them based on the best clinical training would they be
Minn
OSU
CCF
Indiana

???

Indiana, Gainesville have much better clinical training than CCF and considering the number of categorical applicants CCF would take (>50) this year, I'm sure that it would be a mess. In fact Cincinnati and Wayne State> or = CCF in Clinical training (depends upon how you learn, patient exposure vs classroom)

 

[Elixir86]

I hate to be so last minute with this, but I'm still a bit undecided on the middle of my list. I'm from the mid-Atlantic East coast and would like to stay close to home, but I'm more concerned about getting a GI fellowship in the future. I'm pretty set on my top 2 (based on location, "gut feeling," fellowships, etc.) but I could use some help with the middle.

My main question is whether I should move Cornell, NW, UofC further up. I have it further down now b/c I'm worried about "ease of living," such as buying groceries, traveling around the city for simple necessities, etc. Now, I can simply hop into my car and get whatever I want and how much I want. Any help is appreciated.

Current ROL
1. Duke (set)
2. UPMC (set)
--------------------------
3. WashU
4. Vanderbilt
5. UNC
6. Cornell
7. NW
8. UofChicago
9. Yale
--------------------------
10. - 14. Others

 

[DrVanNostran]

I'm just looking for a last minute blessing (or outcry) on my list. Interested in primary care, heme/onc....endo?

1. Mayo Arizona
2. Wisconsin PC
3. Wisconsin Categorical
4. Utah
5. Arizona
6. OSU PC
7. OSU Categorical
8. Minnesota
9. Providence Portland
10. Providence St. V
11. UNM
12. Banner Good Sam (Phoenix)

I think thats a solid list. OOC, why Utah over OSU? Location?

 

[DrVanNostran]

I hate to be so last minute with this, but I'm still a bit undecided on the middle of my list. I'm from the mid-Atlantic East coast and would like to stay close to home, but I'm more concerned about getting a GI fellowship in the future. I'm pretty set on my top 2 (based on location, "gut feeling," fellowships, etc.) but I could use some help with the middle.

My main question is whether I should move Cornell, NW, UofC further up. I have it further down now b/c I'm worried about "ease of living," such as buying groceries, traveling around the city for simple necessities, etc. Now, I can simply hop into my car and get whatever I want and how much I want. Any help is appreciated.

Current ROL
1. Duke (set)
2. UPMC (set)
--------------------------
3. WashU
4. Vanderbilt
5. UNC
6. Cornell
7. NW
8. UofChicago
9. Yale
--------------------------
10. - 14. Others

NW is in the Gold Coast, you could rely on public transportation for most things. UChicago, you probably would be better set off with a car. If 3-9 are equalish in your book, I would move up the fun cities: NY and Chicago. Although, Nashville is an awesome town.