Obamacare is a Complete Failure

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So you feel that pen and paper should be the future of medicine? That is truly visionary.

Once again, jumping to an absurd conclusion.

I think if the government wants to impose costly regulations on practice and influence reimbursement, it should fork over the money or provide the service, but since they can't even get a website right, that would probably end up worse than pen and paper.

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Millions of people live in states adversely affected by these high increases. That's a big deal.

Please tell me how being condescending adds to discussion or debate.
Oh, for crying out loud. You are on a thread entitled "Obamacare is a Complete Failure". What exactly did you expect? And regarding your response, I guess what you are saying is that we should assess all challenges and judge all legislation by the one person it hurts the most. So if Joe Blow's rate increases 15%, we should pretend that everybody's rate increased by 15%, even though that's completely untrue. And, AGAIN, like so many others on this thread you completely ignore the fact that the increasing out of pocket costs trend is no greater than it was pre ACA.
 
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Once again, jumping to an absurd conclusion.

I think if the government wants to impose costly regulations on practice and influence reimbursement, it should fork over the money or provide the service, but since they can't even get a website right, that would probably end up worse than pen and paper.
Website has been working correctly for some time now. Talk about absurd conclusions.
So, to clarify,your argument is that if our government makes a law to adopt EMR it should also have foot 100% the cost of the implementation, otherwise our healthcare system should be allowed to remain pen and paper based. Is that less absurd for you now? I just want to be clear on what it is that you are arguing.
 
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Website has been working correctly for some time now. Talk about absurd conclusions.
So, to clarify,your argument is that if our government makes a law to adopt EMR it should also have foot 100% the cost of the implementation, otherwise our healthcare system should be allowed to remain pen and paper based. Is that less absurd for you now? I just want to be clear on what it is that you are arguing.

But the point is that the website was "created" with a cost of millions of dollars. Absolutely epic failure is simply unacceptable. This wasn't John Doe creating a website in his basement. This was the freakin' federal government rolling out a national program for its citizens. I personally think that's pretty absurd.

As far paying for an EMR, considering that the government is willing to dock your pay for not using EMR, it makes sense to me to at least provide a tax credit for costs related to EMR implementation at a minimum. Implementing a mandate that is hugely expensive and then effectively fining people for failing to follow that mandate without any assistance seems pretty weak to me.

Mind you, I don't think that EMR should be mandated in the first place.
 
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But the point is that the website was "created" with a cost of millions of dollars. Absolutely epic failure is simply unacceptable. This wasn't John Doe creating a website in his basement. This was the freakin' federal government rolling out a national program for its citizens. I personally think that's pretty absurd.

As far paying for an EMR, considering that the government is willing to dock your pay for not using EMR, it makes sense to me to at least provide a tax credit for costs related to EMR implementation at a minimum. Implementing a mandate that is hugely expensive and then effectively fining people for failing to follow that mandate without any assistance seems pretty weak to me.

Mind you, I don't think that EMR should be mandated in the first place.
Yeah, I get it, the roll out had issues. They fixed them. So what does that have to do with anything at all today? And, I recognize that you like many on this site lack, well, age and so you maybe don't remember things like HMOs, OBRA, HIPAA, DRGs, ICD-9, ICD-10, MAPD, and a dozen other government mandates that all impacted healthcare delivery, insurance claim processing, IT, administration, and on and on. This is nothing new.
Simple question for you; Do you think that digitizing medical records would help or hurt a person's chances of quality healthcare?
I also want to note that I think all you guys are super great and I'm enjoying this sharing of knowledge and healthy discussion!!
 
Yeah, I get it, the roll out had issues. They fixed them. So what does that have to do with anything at all today? And, I recognize that you like many on this site lack, well, age and so you maybe don't remember things like HMOs, OBRA, HIPAA, DRGs, ICD-9, ICD-10, MAPD, and a dozen other government mandates that all impacted healthcare delivery, insurance claim processing, IT, administration, and on and on. This is nothing new.
Simple question for you; Do you think that digitizing medical records would help or hurt a person's chances of quality healthcare?
I also want to note that I think all you guys are super great and I'm enjoying this sharing of knowledge and healthy discussion!!

I think it has absolutely nothing to do with the delivery of healthcare to the vast majority of people.
 
Ok. So it wouldn't hurt. Next question for you; do you feel the availability of thorough EMRs on persons over the age of 55 would help or hurt their chances of quality health care? Keep in mind, this is when we humans start to get pretty expensive.
 
I think it has absolutely nothing to do with the delivery of healthcare to the vast majority of people.

Except that EMR takes time away from the patient. No longer can physicians ask a helper to log things for them, physicians now have to spend time logging everything into the computer while the patient is there and also after they leave. This can lead to awkward interactions during the interview because you now have this inanimate object that creates novel barriers. Physicians use less eye contact, may not be listening as well because they're typing, and so on. The worst part is that all hospitals have different EMR systems and so this added "convenience" that is supposed to foster the exchange of information between providers and hospitals doesn't actually work that way, because the systems used to store the information vary so widely. According to a lecture we were recently given over EMR, only 27% of physicians are happy with EMR, and the main reason described for why it is so hated is because they get very minimal training on how to use it, which just makes the process even more time consuming and inefficient.
 
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Except that EMR takes time away from the patient. No longer can physicians ask a helper to log things for them, physicians now have to spend time logging everything into the computer while the patient is there and also after they leave. This can lead to awkward interactions during the interview because you now have this inanimate object that creates novel barriers. Physicians use less eye contact, may not be listening as well because they're typing, and so on. The worst part is that all hospitals have different EMR systems and so this added "convenience" that is supposed to foster the exchange of information between providers and hospitals doesn't actually work that way, because the systems used to store the information vary so widely. According to a lecture we were recently given over EMR, only 27% of physicians are happy with EMR, and the main reason described for why it is so hated is because they get very minimal training on how to use it, which just makes the process even more time consuming and inefficient.
No argument there. Change is often painful, but do you think that EMR is completely hopeless and without any possible upside? EMR technology will advance. Voice recognition and leveraging of thorough historical health data will, I think, eventually make doctors more effective. I've talked to many doctors about EMR and most of them echo your sentiments. I don't doubt them. But I also see how every other industry has used this sort of data availability to their benefit. There's projected to be a 90,000 physician shortfall in just 10 years here in the US. Necessity is the mother of invention, and in this case the necessity is clear. I don't see any means to increasing physician productivity without an IT component. And without EMR, there really can be no IT component.
 
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No argument there. Change is often painful, but do you think that EMR is completely hopeless and without any possible upside? EMR technology will advance. Voice recognition and leveraging of thorough historical health data will, I think, eventually make doctors more effective. I've talked to many doctors about EMR and most of them echo your sentiments. I don't doubt them. But I also see how every other industry has used this sort of data availability to their benefit. There's projected to be a 90,000 physician shortfall in just 10 years here in the US. Necessity is the mother of invention, and in this case the necessity is clear. I don't see any means to increasing physician productivity without an IT component. And without EMR, there really can be no IT component.

Have you read obamas proposed 2016 budget? Not only are there billions cut for GME, there is wording in it that suggests the federal government is about to regulate the match process and cut funding to specialty programs.

Add that to the current shortfall of physicians, press ganey, the ACA, and emr regulations, king Obama is trying to screw medicine even more.
 
No argument there. Change is often painful, but do you think that EMR is completely hopeless and without any possible upside? EMR technology will advance. Voice recognition and leveraging of thorough historical health data will, I think, eventually make doctors more effective. I've talked to many doctors about EMR and most of them echo your sentiments. I don't doubt them. But I also see how every other industry has used this sort of data availability to their benefit. There's projected to be a 90,000 physician shortfall in just 10 years here in the US. Necessity is the mother of invention, and in this case the necessity is clear. I don't see any means to increasing physician productivity without an IT component. And without EMR, there really can be no IT component.

Well I don't think that the basics of EMR is a bad idea at heart, it feels right. Truth is though that lots of good ideas don't work well once actually implemented, as is life. I think that EMR has a long way to go if it is ever going to improve health care; As you suggested, there could be ways to make it more efficient (voice software, etc) but its just not there yet. What I really don't like is how the ACA has created a mandate for EMR, else you must suffer fines.
 
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Have you read obamas proposed 2016 budget? Not only are there billions cut for GME, there is wording in it that suggests the federal government is about to regulate the match process and cut funding to specialty programs.

Add that to the current shortfall of physicians, press ganey, the ACA, and emr regulations, king Obama is trying to screw medicine even more.
Yes, I'm aware. Everything has been getting cut. My peace corps placement got delayed 8 months because of budget cuts in 2011 on peace corps' 50th anniversary, and that is program dems are very proud of and has enormous bipartisan support. And the government desperately wants more GPs. I guess maybe this is part of their plan. BTW, these cuts are not being proposed by dems only. SEE: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/articl...-budget-cuts-rural-hospitals-graduate-medical
Everybody wants the government to get the our debt under control, but nobody wants to be impacted. Clearly, these cuts are short sighted. Also, I can tell by your tone that you think I'm a fan of every Obama decision. We're discussing the ACA here, which I feel has significant issues but also feel is significantly better than what we had previously for the many reasons I've already stated.
 
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Well I don't think that the basics of EMR is a bad idea at heart, it feels right. Truth is though that lots of good ideas don't work well once actually implemented, as is life. I think that EMR has a long way to go if it is ever going to improve health care; As you suggested, there could be ways to make it more efficient (voice software, etc) but its just not there yet. What I really don't like is how the ACA has created a mandate for EMR use, or else suffering fines.
Well, they've been trying to encourage EMR for years with no luck. And they seem to think that in the long run, it will drive down costs, which I can see as a possibility given the low hanging fruit of $900 per capita for administrative costs. I think that once it matures, and it will mature, the benefits will become obvious. We're just in the sucky stage now.
 
And if you'd like to know what it was like for me when we started getting computers in the business office i worked in back in the late 90's, it looked something like this:
 
Yea, so now private physicians have to pay thousands of dollars out of their dwindling resources to cover this awesome update.
acceptmeplease. I apologize for calling you a *****. It was inappropriate and I'm sure you're quite intelligent.
 
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http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2016/assets/budget.pdf

"To encourage and enhance training of primary care practitioners and other physicians in high-need specialties, the Budget proposes $5.25 billion over 10 years to support 13,000 new medical school graduate residents through a new competitive graduate medical education program that incentivizes high- quality physician training." Pages 66-67

Meanwhile, if you look at the numbers, there are actually overall cuts to GME. Then there is a sneaky "Create a competitive, value-based graduate medical education program" plan of the budget on page 112 that starts in 2016 but the money for that really pours in for 2017.

What happens if my values don't align with the federal government? Or what if I don't want to be a part of a specialty rationing system?
 
Agreed. Way too much red tape. We spend $900 per person in this country on administrative costs alone. Hopefully, the push toward digitizing medical records will help.
Except it's really just shifted costs. The average EMR and billing systems required these days run an office over 80k. That's an entire primary care PA's salary.

It was promised to save us money, and yet all it's done is cost us even more.
 
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I see nothing that implies control over the match.

They are proposing adding new slots in "high-need" specialties (i.e. primary care)

By cutting funding to GME (AMA totaled it to 85 billion) and allocating funds to programs that are only deemed high-need, that could really influence number of positions available in particular fields.
 
Why would she be choosing a plan that expensive in the first place? Obviously a plan with all the pros like a low deductible and short wait times is going to cost you. I wish I could say capitalism would have allowed her to shop for a good private plan but we all know health insurance hasn't been very free-market at all and is only getting worse.
The deductibles are so cheap because it's a limited-access HMO plan, which actually tend to be the cheapest plans out there. Plus if she had a high deductible plan, it would be next to worthless for her anyways- what good is insurance with a $5,000 deductible when you only make $22,800/year? You'll never be able to hit the deductible before your insurance pays off. She's 60 and has a low income- her plan makes a lot of sense on every level.
 
By cutting funding to GME (AMA totaled it to 85 billion) and allocating funds to programs that are only deemed high-need, that could really influence number of positions available in particular fields.
It doesn't matter. The White House can propose whatever the hell they want. With a GOP congress, it won't happen.
 
Except it's really just shifted costs. The average EMR and billing systems required these days run an office over 80k. That's an entire primary care PA's salary.

It was promised to save us money, and yet all it's done is cost us even more.
Patience, man. Going digital involves some growing pains. It's not a small project.
 
So you feel that pen and paper should be the future of medicine? That is truly visionary.
It's not about being visionary or not- the systems are extremely expensive and require annual software fees that will essentially destroy small private practice in this country.

In regard to the ACA- yes, it did fix some problems. But defending it because it insured a fraction of the population and stopped denial based on preexisting conditions is like defending Charles Manson because of his musical talents. There's a pile of problems with the bill that make it lean far more toward doing harm than good.
Patience, man. Going digital involves some growing pains. It's not a small project.
It's not about growing pains- these EMR systems cost a fortune per year due to annual fees. It depends on the design of the system, but for most you're looking at a minimum of 10-20k/year per provider just to keep it running. That's insane. There's no way physicians were spending 10-20k on paper per provider per year in the 90s.
 
Please don't use the word provider. I will not be a provider that is equivalent to a midlevel. I am a medical student that is going to be a physician and a real doctor. Provider is a bs politically correct and bland term used by administrators to describe the people who actually take care of patients.
 
It's not about being visionary or not- the systems are extremely expensive and require annual software fees that will essentially destroy small private practice in this country.

In regard to the ACA- yes, it did fix some problems. But defending it because it insured a fraction of the population and stopped denial based on preexisting conditions is like defending Charles Manson because of his musical talents. There's a pile of problems with the bill that make it lean far more toward doing harm than good.

It's not about growing pains- these EMR systems cost a fortune per year due to annual fees. It depends on the design of the system, but for most you're looking at a minimum of 10-20k/year per provider just to keep it running. That's insane. There's no way physicians were spending 10-20k on paper per provider per year in the 90s.
I see what you're saying, and it does seem like the system is engineered to encourage larger physician groups or a migration to hospital based medicine. But I can't see how you or anyone could think that remaining pen and paper based while the rest of the world moved on would be feasible.
And regarding your comments on the ACA; Charles Manson, pile of problems, yada yada yada. How does this contribute to the conversation? If you have nothing specific to add, I can't really respond. Hyperbole isn't constructive.
 
I see what you're saying, and it does seem like the system is engineered to encourage larger physician groups or a migration to hospital based medicine. But I can't see how you or anyone could think that remaining pen and paper based while the rest of the world moved on would be feasible.
And regarding your comments on the ACA; Charles Manson, pile of problems, yada yada yada. How does this contribute to the conversation? If you have nothing specific to add, I can't really respond. Hyperbole isn't constructive.
I made my specific grievances known in the OP of this thread. I'm too lazy to restate them on a smartphone.

The ultimate problem with forcing physicians under the umbrella of hospitals is that it takes away or autonomy, and will likely strip us of income as hospital executives siphon it off to line their own pockets. The act was largely crafted for the AHA, the insurance lobby, and pharmaceutical companies- basically the last people you want in control of health care law. Physicians lose. All but the poorest of patients lose as access becomes more limited and deductibles skyrocket. If the physicians and the patients, who are what health care is about, are no better off (and likely worse off) than before, I think it's fair to say the ACA is a failure.

Hell, before I started medical school, the ACA already hurt me- my employer provided 85% of health care premiums, and was very generous in its level of coverage. They even offered free insurance to anyone making less than $22/hr. The ACA declared such plans would be subject to taxes, as they were too generous. The free coverage had to be scrapped, and they had to dial back their contribution to 70% within 3 years (they were dropping it by 5% pet year until then as a phase-in), basically doubling our monthly premiums and seriously hurting those that previously received coverage at no cost. Obamacare was fantastic for us, truly.
 
<checks SDN> And the argument lives on...
 
Another thing that irks me is that people say, "well if you go cash only, the poor can't afford to see you." The thing is, if you're accepting insurance, you're paying over 80k per year for billing, EMR, and coding. You literally can't afford to see the poor pro bono because you'd be hemorrhaging money. With DPC, you can charge sliding scales and not end up broke as ****, since DPC overheads tend to be damn near nothing. You could charge them $10 for a visit and still break even. The only problem then becomes liability- you can't give something away for free that might bite you in the ass later.

You want the poor to get care in this country without relying on some socialistic BS? Make charity care tax deductible, and make any charity care provided free of liability. Then physicians could provide the sort of free care they would like to without going broke or fearing their good deed being punished with a lawsuit down the line. Coupled with DPC's minimal overhead, I predict we'd see a great number of physicians being far more charitable in the future.

DPC for the win. St. Luke's in Modesto, CA uses this business model and successfully provides half of its services free of charge to those who can't pay.
 
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I made my specific grievances known in the OP of this thread. I'm too lazy to restate them on a smartphone.

The ultimate problem with forcing physicians under the umbrella of hospitals is that it takes away or autonomy, and will likely strip us of income as hospital executives siphon it off to line their own pockets. The act was largely crafted for the AHA, the insurance lobby, and pharmaceutical companies- basically the last people you want in control of health care law. Physicians lose. All but the poorest of patients lose as access becomes more limited and deductibles skyrocket. If the physicians and the patients, who are what health care is about, are no better off (and likely worse off) than before, I think it's fair to say the ACA is a failure.

Hell, before I started medical school, the ACA already hurt me- my employer provided 85% of health care premiums, and was very generous in its level of coverage. They even offered free insurance to anyone making less than $22/hr. The ACA declared such plans would be subject to taxes, as they were too generous. The free coverage had to be scrapped, and they had to dial back their contribution to 70% within 3 years (they were dropping it by 5% pet year until then as a phase-in), basically doubling our monthly premiums and seriously hurting those that previously received coverage at no cost. Obamacare was fantastic for us, truly.
Ok, so you ended up paying what exactly? Roughly what everybody else pays in terms of premiums? And who exactly would be taxed? If the company is providing you the benefit, then it would be you who would be taxed as part of the benefit would be seen as income, right? Just making sure I understand you.
 
Ok, so you ended up paying what exactly? Roughly what everybody else pays in terms of premiums? And who exactly would be taxed? If the company is providing you the benefit, then it would be you who would be taxed as part of the benefit would be seen as income, right? Just making sure I understand you.
Companies lose their ability to claim tax exemptions on insurance over a certain amount each year, and if their employees do not pay a certain amount of the premium. Now, these changes did nothing but shift more of the burden of healthcare onto the mostly middle and working class members of the hospital staff. How is that in any way a good thing? It's ridiculous, and it seriously hurt a lot of the lower paid staff (CNAs, techs, etc), effectively slashing their incomes by 5-10%, depending on whether they covered their family or just themselves. It hurt part-time workers, who already had higher premiums, even more. and all for what?

Thanks Obama.
 
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Here's the bottom line friends, you can throw all of this crap at me, but all I keep seeing is you complaining about things that have always been the case in the US Healthcare system (even since some of you were in diapers) and then blaming it on a piece of legislation that was passed a few years ago. If you really want to go back to the days of people getting kicked of their health insurance because they got sick and people being denied coverage (for the rest of their lives) due to preexisting conditions, then that's the person you are and i'm not going to change your mind. But, please, if you're going to criticize the ACA, at least do a little homework and gain some historical perspective. Most of what you are blaming it for is nothing new, and a lot of really awful things that we all used to complain about are no longer legal. AND, yes "it's called a mandate", but a hell of a lot more people are covered and, believe it or not, have access to healthcare.

The ACA puts doctors in the center of the dartboard for cutting costs, either directly, or by disenfranchising them. That is why we do not like the ACA, and SHOULDN'T like it. Less pay for more work, because the government says so... because the government knows how to practice medicine...

A few examples:

Failure to adopt EHR is penalized, giving doctors a choice between higher overhead or less reimbursement.

Pay for performance measures are ridiculous. My specialty (ENT) has a dozen or so clinical guidelines, but no measures that would allow any accurate judgement of the quality of an individual provider's treatment outcomes. Being a "quality" provider requires navigating checklists rather than proving quality care. Patient satisfaction being incorporated into reimbursement? Really?

Encouraging bundled payments. I kind of see the frustration from a payor or patient point of view. They need X procedure done and they have to pay the surgeon, the anesthesiologist, the pathologist, the pharmacy and the hospital. But taken from the surgeon's perspective, I need a fair payment to do the job. There is no reason a hospital should have control over my ability to collect what is fair. This is blatant disenfranchisement of physicians.

Medicaid expansion. Not a bad thing to have more people with coverage, but Medicaid is partial coverage, with limited access. Who is expected to treat these patients? I already see more than I should. Especially with other reimbursement rates declining. Why is a Medicaid patient worth so much less than a patient with Medicare or commercial insurance?

Our saving grace is that there will always be patients and in an increasing number. And, patients do value health care. They pay out the teeth for insurance, and are even wiling to pay cash for non-covered treatments. Physicians offer the most value in the health care system, and can guide patients to cost effective treatments to get the best results possible.
 
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DPC for the win. St. Luke's in Modesto, CA uses this business model and successfully provides half of its services free of charge to those who can't pay.

That's great, except you have to have a large enough population buying into the pool at a high enough rate to offset the risk in order to provide those free services. A model like this isn't feasible for areas with high percentages of low income earners or populations with higher risk individuals. Dr. Forester, the founder of the model at St. Luke's, even said that their program is meant to fill in the gaps and provide coverage to some uninsured individuals, not a system which can rationally be implemented as a solution to healthcare here.

It's a solid model for some fields (mainly primary care) given the proper patient population, but isn't feasible in most specialties. Additionally, any patient using this model would be foolish not to have wrap-around coverage, which can end up being more expensive than just buying a normal plan (though sometimes it can be cheaper).
 
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The ACA puts doctors in the center of the dartboard for cutting costs, either directly, or by disenfranchising them. That is why we do not like the ACA, and SHOULDN'T like it. Less pay for more work, because the government says so... because the government knows how to practice medicine...

A few examples:

Failure to adopt EHR is penalized, giving doctors a choice between higher overhead or less reimbursement.

Pay for performance measures are ridiculous. My specialty (ENT) has a dozen or so clinical guidelines, but no measures that would allow any accurate judgement of the quality of an individual provider's treatment outcomes. Being a "quality" provider requires navigating checklists rather than proving quality care. Patient satisfaction being incorporated into reimbursement? Really?

Encouraging bundled payments. I kind of see the frustration from a payor or patient point of view. They need X procedure done and they have to pay the surgeon, the anesthesiologist, the pathologist, the pharmacy and the hospital. But taken from the surgeon's perspective, I need a fair payment to do the job. There is no reason a hospital should have control over my ability to collect what is fair. This is blatant disenfranchisement of physician

Medicaid expansion. Not a bad thing to have more people with coverage, but Medicaid is partial coverage, with limited access. Who is expected to treat these patients? I already see more than I should. Especially with other reimbursement rates declining. Why is a Medicaid patient worth so much less than a patient with Medicare or commercial insurance?

Our saving grace is that there will always be patients and in an increasing number. And, patients do value health care. They pay out the teeth for insurance, and are even wiling to pay cash for non-covered treatments. Physicians offer the most value in the health care system, and can guide patients to cost effective treatments to get the best results possible.
Doctors have always been in the cross hairs. You selected a job where you simply don't have any power over the administration. This isn't Wall Street, this isn't some Main Street business, you are in medicine. The day you decided you wanted to be a physician was the day you decided you wanted to be plugged into a very rigid system that really doesn't care about what you think from an administrative perspective. If you want to change it, it's going to take a hell of a lot more than complaining on a forum. An entire generation of physicians allowed this BS to occur. You can sit on the sidelines and cry foul, or you can realize that nobody is going to come to your rescue besides yourselves. What's wrong with you goes all the way through you. Wake up.
 
Companies lose their ability to claim tax exemptions on insurance over a certain amount each year, and if their employees do not pay a certain amount of the premium. Now, these changes did nothing but shift more of the burden of healthcare onto the mostly middle and working class members of the hospital staff. How is that in any way a good thing? It's ridiculous, and it seriously hurt a lot of the lower paid staff (CNAs, techs, etc), effectively slashing their incomes by 5-10%, depending on whether they covered their family or just themselves. It hurt part-time workers, who already had higher premiums, even more. and all for what?

Thanks Obama.
Yeah, i mentioned this earlier. Search on "transference" if you are interested. Insurance companies were trying to figure out how they could pull this off as early as 2004. Again, please recognize that the impact you experienced wasn't only a result of the ACA, but a result of how the company you work for decided to react to the ACA.
 
Doctors have always been in the cross hairs. You selected a job where you simply don't have any power over the administration. This isn't Wall Street, this isn't some Main Street business, you are in medicine. The day you decided you wanted to be a physician was the day you decided you wanted to be plugged into a very rigid system that really doesn't care about what you think from an administrative perspective. If you want to change it, it's going to take a hell of a lot more than complaining on a forum. An entire generation of physicians allowed this BS to occur. You can sit on the sidelines and cry foul, or you can realize that nobody is going to come to your rescue besides yourselves. What's wrong with you goes all the way through you. Wake up.

Right... now you are out of your league. I am doing just fine. It is sad to see some of us as doctors or future doctors supporting the government as they meddle and ultimately interfere with patients getting the services they need. And it's not worth any more of my time reading troll posts from a fresh SDN account. Good topic to start a discussion, and gain a variety of options on, but it has now been fully derailed by "Ed Tom Bell"
 
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Right... now you are out of your league. I am doing just fine. It is sad to see some of us as doctors or future doctors supporting the government as they meddle and ultimately interfere with patients getting the services they need. And it's not worth any more of my time reading troll posts from a fresh SDN account. Good topic to start a discussion, and gain a variety of options on, but it has now been fully derailed by "Ed Tom Bell"
You are doing just fine. Got it. It's about how you are doing. The trajectory isn't your concern.
 
Ed Tom Bell is the classic example of the premed who thinks he/she knows better than the medical students and doctors.
 
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Ed Tom Bell is the classic example of the premed who thinks he/she knows better than the medical students and doctors.
Or, maybe somebody that worked as a management consultant with insurance companies 15 years and has an MBA with a concentration in health administration from Lehigh and worked as a CNA full time as an undergrad and lived overseas for 3 years working in an ARV clinic and a tuberculosis hospital in Namibia with the Peace Corps and is now has a really good chance of getting into a good medical school after finishing a postbac with a 3.9 because he was bored. OR, maybe he isn't. We're all anonymous here after all. Maybe I'm just a liar.
 
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Or, maybe somebody that worked as a management consultant with insurance companies 15 years and has an MBA with a concentration in health administration from Lehigh and worked as a CNA full time as an undergrad and lived overseas for 3 years working in an ARV clinic and a tuberculosis hospital in Namibia with the Peace Corps and is now has a really good chance of getting into a good medical school after finishing a postbac with a 3.9 because he was bored. OR, maybe he isn't. We're all anonymous her after all. Maybe I'm just a liar.

I bet none of this actually happened
 
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Or, maybe somebody that worked as a management consultant with insurance companies 15 years and has an MBA with a concentration in health administration from Lehigh and worked as a CNA full time as an undergrad and lived overseas for 3 years working in an ARV clinic and a tuberculosis hospital in Namibia with the Peace Corps and is now has a really good chance of getting into a good medical school after finishing a postbac with a 3.9 because he was bored. OR, maybe he isn't. We're all anonymous here after all. Maybe I'm just a liar.

I haven't started medical school yet, so my contribution here will be small, but I can't help but ask...why are you taking a position as a scribe if you have all this education and medical experience?

Seems kind of retrograde and "fishy" if I dare say so myself.
 
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Or, maybe somebody that worked as a management consultant with insurance companies 15 years and has an MBA with a concentration in health administration from Lehigh and worked as a CNA full time as an undergrad and lived overseas for 3 years working in an ARV clinic and a tuberculosis hospital in Namibia with the Peace Corps and is now has a really good chance of getting into a good medical school after finishing a postbac with a 3.9 because he was bored. OR, maybe he isn't. We're all anonymous here after all. Maybe I'm just a liar.

That's great and all, but that doesn't mean that you actually understand the daily practice of medicine as it exists in the US.
 
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Or, maybe somebody that worked as a management consultant with insurance companies 15 years and has an MBA with a concentration in health administration from Lehigh and worked as a CNA full time as an undergrad and lived overseas for 3 years working in an ARV clinic and a tuberculosis hospital in Namibia with the Peace Corps and is now has a really good chance of getting into a good medical school after finishing a postbac with a 3.9 because he was bored. OR, maybe he isn't. We're all anonymous here after all. Maybe I'm just a liar.
Run on sentences and full time CNA? We are going places in this thread.
 
Or, maybe somebody that worked as a management consultant with insurance companies 15 years and has an MBA with a concentration in health administration from Lehigh and worked as a CNA full time as an undergrad and lived overseas for 3 years working in an ARV clinic and a tuberculosis hospital in Namibia with the Peace Corps and is now has a really good chance of getting into a good medical school after finishing a postbac with a 3.9 because he was bored. OR, maybe he isn't. We're all anonymous here after all. Maybe I'm just a liar.
So u feel like your experience helps you how in med school?
 
I haven't started medical school yet, so my contribution here will be small, but I can't help but ask...why are you taking a position as a scribe if you have all this education and medical experience?

Seems kind of retrograde and "fishy" if I dare say so myself.
Because I'll be starting medical school in 2016, at 42 years old. That's why.
 
So u feel like your experience helps you how in med school?
Well, maybe you could answer that question yourself. Tell me how your lack of experience outside of academia and diapers helps you in medical school.
 
That's great and all, but that doesn't mean that you actually understand the daily practice of medicine as it exists in the US.
Your daily practice is not so mysterious. Not like a CEO or even an exec.
 
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