New mom sues medical licensing board

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Sure there is. The number of days in the week does not change, but the number of people to cover it (call) does when one person is off for leave (for whatever reasons). Therefore, if there are 4 residents who take call q4, it the becomes 3 residents with call q3 to cover for the resident who is gone. Its wondeful that your program expects it and handles it well, but it would be remiss of us not to remind others that not all programs (and even those not in surgery) are not that way.

The math is obvious.

My point is, I was specifically refering to my own program where, in fact, there is no excess call. There are enough residents in our program that all rotations with inhouse call are covered even with people out on maternity (or illness) leave.

Members don't see this ad.
 
The math is obvious.

My point is, I was specifically refering to my own program where, in fact, there is no excess call. There are enough residents in our program that all rotations with inhouse call are covered even with people out on maternity (or illness) leave.

That would be an unusual program them or one with an extremely large number of residents. In most cases, the loss of a resident on an in-house call rotation does make a difference.
 
Good luck in your search for love and a lifelong partner.

:laugh:

Yes, I take your meaning, and I respect and understand your point of view. You are correct that I seem unapologetic about doing what I think is best for my life. I am. I'm a very independent, stubborn, opinionated girl. I can be incredibly selfish and irritating. I know this, and so I do my best to present myself (in the real world, not SDN threads) as someone who does care about my impact of my action on others. I do care about the impact of my choices on others, but I care less about that impact than I do on how my choices effect me. I highly, highly doubt when I get pregnant I will approach my co-workers in a "Hey, I'm pregnant. Deal with it" kind of way, but I also highly doubt that when trying to plan my personal family life I am going to think "Oh, no, I can't have kids now - my co-workers might have to work harder!". Yes that is selfish, but I hope to make up for it in other ways. I like the poster's above idea of taking extra call while I still can, but I don't know how realistic that will be (don't know enough about residency yet, but I imagine I will be working the full 80 hrs every week as it is).

Yes, I recognize Bailey is a character on a tv show. It seemed like an easy example that most of us would recognize. I am sorta realistic and realize that I just won't physically be able to do what I want to (to be "tough" as I want), but I will do my best. I certainly can't imagine taking off three months, although I can see why new mothers would want to (I also can't see jumping back in after only 4 weeks, either).

Anyways... I'm rambling when I should be studying. Point: if we were both residents together and I got pregnant (planned or unplanned), I wouldn't shove it in your face and be an ass about it. I would be sympathetic and apologetic for the inconvenience that it would cause you, and I would do my best to make it as easy on you and our co-residents as possible. Yet my choices effect me generally to a much greater extent than they will effect you, and as such, that will be my primary concern.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Good luck in your search for love and a lifelong partner.

:laugh:

:laugh: Yeah no kidding. Good thing I already found him, and for some reason, he doesn't hate me. Hard to believe, but it takes all kinds, right?
 
I was pointing out how ridiculous your expectations were that women put all their interests aside for a JOB. Yes, it's a job, and when it comes down to it, I and my (maybe future) children are more important to me than a job. I'll take an unpaid leave if that's what it comes down to, no problem.

The problem isn't that the person taking maternity leave is still getting paid, it's that others are covering for her.

Many female physicians have had kids while working, and the system hasn't collapsed yet. The sky hasn't fallen, and it certainly isn't going to because they keep having them.

Yes, this is true. But do you know why the system hasn't crumbled yet? Because that physician's colleagues (both male and female) have had to pick up the slack. That's why it works. No one has to like it, though.

Yes, medicine is just a job, like everything else - driving a bus, editing a newspaper, working as a bank teller. It's just that the additional workload on the rest of the residents, in this case, can be extraordinarily taxing (as well as potentially dangerous for patients).

I should add that with a single exception, all the residents/attendings responding to this thread have expressed their frustration and misery in dealing with coresidents and the maternity leave system. I would listen to them as they've been through this experience and know full well what it means to "pick up the slack" for their AWOL colleagues. It's easy to hypothesize and guess what it'll be like when you're a pre-med or med student, but go through a couple tough rotations and that exhaustion will quickly get to you.

On a semi-related note, you'll see similar feelings of animosity when residents specifically pick tough rotation months to take their week-long vacations, thus committing their fellow residents to more work and more calls.
 
:laugh: Yes, blunt should be on the list. I'm trying to convert "blunt" to "tactful, yet honest", but there is little point in sugar-coating an online opinion. I know most of my faults, and I try my best to keep them underwraps.

The reality is I know nothing of the ways in which I could make it up to other residents. It's not like I need to switch one night of call; it's pretty hard to actually make up for ditching out for weeks on the team. So, in saying that I will hopefully make it up to them, I mean I will try to do what I can, but no amount of nicety and good attitude will make my teamates any happier about doing extra calls. It isn't that I think that it doesn't matter, I just don't logistically know how it would work out... that there is actually anything I could really do to make it up to them.

But yeah, you're right - it's going to be ~6 years before I have kids (during last year of residency or shortly thereafter). So it's really an issue I hadn't put much thought into until this thread came up. Maybe I'll think about it some more during the next six years and come up with a more amicable solution that fits what I want, too.

I think that test block week will be my "pick fights on SDN" week. It's much better than picking fights w/my S.O. or classmates (not that I haven't done both). So - everything I'm saying is a form of "I hate studying and I'm irritated about it." On that note, back to biochem.... :beat:


But since doing what's right by you in this case isn't right by them, I wouldn't expect everyone to be extatic about it. Not that you said that it was your intention, but it shouldn't come as a surprise that people who are impacted in a negative way by women who make the choice of getting pregnant are upset. In countries with mandatory paid maternity leave, employers are probably mad. They should be. In a small enough business, forcing someone to pay someone for doing no work may actually bankrupt the whole business. In residency, where you can't just hire a temp, your fellow residents will probably be mad. It hurts them.

Medicine is a political hotbed, with all of the implications of a highly regulated hierarchical profession. To Ms. Currier and everyone else who willingly screws over other people to get what they want, the favor is often returned.

That being said, I think we can all agree that some forethought and reasonable expectations on the part of the mother and her co-workers can really make this work without resorting to lawsuits and threats. Most people will compromise if a reasonable compromise is desired. When it's I'll take whatever I want from you, and I don't care what it does to you, people get mad.

P.S. In Ms. Currier's case, it wouldn't hurt anyone if she just took a year off and then returned if the breast feeding is that important to her. She could study and take the test afterward. It's the unwillingness to compromise that causes the problem.
 
But since doing what's right by you in this case isn't right by them, I wouldn't expect everyone to be extatic about it. Not that you said that it was your intention, but it shouldn't come as a surprise that people who are impacted in a negative way by women who make the choice of getting pregnant are upset. In countries with mandatory paid maternity leave, employers are probably mad. They should be.

Exactly.

The galling part about the assorted pro-baby posters here is not that they expect everyone to pick up their slack; it's that they think everyone should be happy about picking up their slack. Get honest with yourselves: when people say "congratulations" about your pregnancy, they're just being polite. No one really cares except you.
 
Exactly.

The galling part about the assorted pro-baby posters here is not that they expect everyone to pick up their slack; it's that they think everyone should be happy about picking up their slack. Get honest with yourselves: when people say "congratulations" about your pregnancy, they're just being polite. No one really cares except you.

But Tired, it's a miracle!

I mean, we men really can't be expected to really understand, since we're not capable of experiencing the miracle of childbirth. And the associated broad-sweeping "**** everyone else's life, mine's on the front burner".
 
Do you guys realize that this arguement is going absolutely nowhere? It's the same posts over and over again.

Bottom line is that with 50% of the med school classes made up of women, pregnancies in residency will happen. Yes, it sucks, but it's not going to change anytime soon. Really, the only complete options that would solve this would be women not having sex in residency or the administration figuring out a way to fill in the gap during maternity leave.
 
Do you guys realize that this arguement is going absolutely nowhere? It's the same posts over and over again.

Bottom line is that with 50% of the med school classes made up of women, pregnancies in residency will happen. Yes, it sucks, but it's not going to change anytime soon. Really, the only complete options that would solve this would be women not having sex in residency or the administration figuring out a way to fill in the gap during maternity leave.

They already say no sleep. I'm surprised that no one has tried to argue that having sex hurts patient care
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Currier needs the extra break time to put her on "equal footing" with the men and non-lactating women who take the exam.
I wasn't aware that any "equal footing" law existed. If my IQ is 10 points lower than my classmate, can I have extra points to put me on "equal footing." I really don't know why anyone bothers to try and accomplish anything anymore. Just sue. Claim discrimination. The competition is to prove that you are as worthless as possible. Common sense is against the law. Well, not against the law, just some judges whim who invents the rules as he goes along. I am frankly ashamed to even have a peripheral association with this sort of garbage. This is the beginning of what will become an inevitable decline. This woman is going to be a doctor, and if she practices medicine with half of the incompetency with which she approaches exams, she will kill someone. Thank goodness the legal system doesn't give a crap.
 
I wasn't aware that any "equal footing" law existed. If my IQ is 10 points lower than my classmate, can I have extra points to put me on "equal footing." I really don't know why anyone bothers to try and accomplish anything anymore. Just sue. Claim discrimination. The competition is to prove that you are as worthless as possible. Common sense is against the law. Well, not against the law, just some judges whim who invents the rules as he goes along. I am frankly ashamed to even have a peripheral association with this sort of garbage. This is the beginning of what will become an inevitable decline. This woman is going to be a doctor, and if she practices medicine with half of the incompetency with which she approaches exams, she will kill someone. Thank goodness the legal system doesn't give a crap.

Exactly - I can't sing a note on key for the life of me. But I've decided I want to be a Broadway performer. I think I should have equal consideration because its not my fault I was born with no singing talent.
 
She won her appeal:

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/wireStory?id=3653811

Wow-women's capabilities and talents dragged back about 10 years today. What a pathetic wuss of a judge.

What a sad day for all of medicine.

I hope MGH loses ten points on the USNews ranking list over this. As they damn well should if they let political correctness choose incompetent whiners over skilled doctors.

And if she can't even read her own textbooks, how exactly is she supposed to interpret a slide?

I wonder how many brilliant, published, boards-destroying people wanting to go into path were denied interviews at MGH during this cycle?
 
Ridiculous.

Good luck getting frozen sections/slides/biopsies/etc. read by her in a timely fashion at MGH.
 
And if she can't even read her own textbooks, how exactly is she supposed to interpret a slide?

Well, since she can't read a textbook, clearly she will sue to have another pathologist actually interpret and read the slide TO her. Then she can have her scribe (she can't write, it makes her carpal tunnel act up...) write down what her pathologist tells her. Her aide can then call the surgeon to relay the results (she can't call herself as she has an allergy to the phone).

Hmm... it looks like Terri Schiavo could have been as effective!
 
Maybe she'll fail.

Well, given as how she spends some time lactating every 2-3 hours, and in between that she talks to lawyers and writes blogs, I doubt she has had a lot of time to study.
 
Necesito seis meses.

Haha. A normal person answers 46 questions in 60 minutes. Sophie Currier answers 23 questions in 60 minutes. You can answer 2 questions every 24 hrs.
 
Haha. A normal person answers 46 questions in 60 minutes. Sophie Currier answers 23 questions in 60 minutes. You can answer 2 questions every 24 hrs.

That's because I have no arms!!! Feet are just so much slower!

Oh yeah, and because I speako no eenglich, y necesito usar un diccionario.
 
That's because I have no arms!!! Feet are just so much slower!

Oh yeah, and because I speako no eenglich, y necesito usar un diccionario.

And by diccionario you mean human translator who actually went to medical school.

At this rate - even high school drop outs will be able to pass the step 2 exam.
 
And by diccionario you mean human translator who actually went to medical school.

Preferrably, yes. I mean, I do want to pass, because I want to keep the prestigious residency spot I have already been offered. :D
 
And by diccionario you mean human translator who actually went to medical school.

:lol: That is hilarious. I cannot believe she won her appeal. I'm so glad NBME is still trying to fight it. :thumbup:
 
Looks like she got the extra time. I can see schools making accommodations for students with learning disabilities, but this is a standardized, national test.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/27/education/27exam.html?_r=1&ref=us&oref=slogin

A Harvard student must be given extra break time during a medical licensing exam to pump breast milk, a Massachusetts appeals court judge ruled yesterday.
The student, Sophie C. Currier, 33, of Brookline, Mass., had sued the National Board of Medical Examiners after it denied her request for more than the standard 45 minutes of allotted breaks during the nine-hour exam, which she will take over two days.
She said she risked medical complications if she did not nurse her 4-month-old daughter, Lea, or pump breast milk every two or three hours.
In overturning a ruling that denied Ms. Currier the additional 60 minutes of break time she requested, Judge Gary Katzmann said yesterday that she needed the extra time so she could be on "equal footing" with men and nonlactating women taking the test.
The medical examining board said that although it planned to appeal, it would give Ms. Currier the additional time if Judge Katzmann's order is still in effect when she takes the exam, set for next week. She must pass the exam, which tests clinical knowledge, to receive her medical degree. Without it, she cannot start her residency at Massachusetts General Hospital.
In the 26-page ruling, Judge Katzmann said refusing to allow additional time meant that Ms. Currier must choose to either "use her break time to incompletely express breast milk and ignore her bodily functions, or abdicate her decision to express breast milk, resulting in significant pain."
"Under either avenue," he wrote, Ms. Currier "is placed at significant disadvantage in comparison to her peers."
Additional time does not give her an unfair advantage, he found, because answers cannot be changed after the student leaves the exam room.
Ms. Currier said the ruling was a boon "for nursing mothers who are trying to juggle family obligations and further their careers."
The board said in a statement that it would appeal the ruling to a three-judge panel to protect the "integrity of the exam."
Dr. Ruth Hoppe, chairwoman of the board's governing body, said: "We have to maintain rigorous and consistent standards that are fair to everyone taking the test. The stakes for assessing competence of physicians are high."
But she insisted that the board tried to be flexible. "We routinely review surveys of test takers to find out whether the computers work, whether break time is sufficient and other areas, and adjust our policies," Dr. Hoppe said.
About 33,000 people took the exam during the last academic year.
Ms. Currier has already received some accommodation from the board for dyslexia and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. She can take the test over two days instead of one, for example.
 
I hope it was worth it. Who's gonna hire her now with this following her around? She has effectively blacklisted herself.
 
I hope it was worth it. Who's gonna hire her now with this following her around? She has effectively blacklisted herself.

Yeah but now for every job she doesn't get she can sue claiming they're discriminating against her because of this. She'll never have to work again she can just live off the settlements.
 
I hope it was worth it. Who's gonna hire her now with this following her around? She has effectively blacklisted herself.

It seems she's going into academic medicine? One more reason not to send my children to HMS? :)

Isn't Step 3 2 days long anyway... wow, maybe she'll get 4 days for the daily sex, I mean dyslexia... and if she has another child at the time... ocho dias?
 
Honestly, I can see that happening. Boy would that be a waste of an MD/PhD.

Then she'll just go into politics and start blaming the world for her problems. :laugh: :laugh:

I know a couple of people who have MDs (a mother and her daughter). The daughter got hers from the islands and her mom from a school in Pennsylvania. At any rate, the daughter didn't pass the boards and the mother didn't go through residency though she took what she needed for the MD. Neither practice medicine and yet both toot people's horns about having to call them Doctor. They are both caught up with a lot of political activities on the board of directors for different kind of organizations and what not.

It wouldn't surprise me if she started acting that way too.
 
It seems she's going into academic medicine? One more reason not to send my children to HMS? :)

Isn't Step 3 2 days long anyway... wow, maybe she'll get 4 days for the daily sex, I mean dyslexia... and if she has another child at the time... ocho dias?

shes re-taking step 2 ck, not step 3. thats why the board is giving her 2 days to take step 2 rather than the normal 1 day session.
 
Top