New mom sues medical licensing board

[Miami_med]

Usted puede tener dos días para tomar el examen.

no, necessito cuatro dias, porque no tengo mucho intelligente. SUE SUE SUE!!!!!!


Todo los hombres me molesta.

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[VFTW]

Getting pregnant when you don't want to get pregnant isn't being responsible, it's reckless. What, people have a right to have sex no matter what? Some kind of protected act? And if you get pregnant, your right to do so trumps the rights that others have because you were able to procreate?

what do you have against sex, dude? fear of the unknown?

 

[humuhumu]

How different would this discussion be if gestation, lactation, etc. happened exclusively in men? If fact, how different would the residency training system be? Let's face it, medicine is still dominated by men, many of whom appear to have a disdain for anything - including bearing children and raising a family - that distracts doctors from their calling. It's unfortunate.

 

[Winged Scapula]

How different would this discussion be if gestation, lactation, etc. happened exclusively in men? If fact, how different would the residency training system be? Let's face it, medicine is still dominated by men, many of whom appear to have a disdain for anything - including bearing children and raising a family - that distracts doctors from their calling. It's unfortunate.

Let's not make this a gender bias issue. IMHO I don't think the discussion would be much different. Most of the posters in this thread and in those responding to the media reports are female who presumably have the capability to lactate. I have seen very few posts from anyone who "disdains childbearing and raising a family" but rather a flush of posts that understand that training corresponds with peak childbearing age. Most disdain comes from those who find that their colleagues plan to have children during particularly stressful residency years and seem not to care that it inconveniences and increases the work load for others. In reality, most people handle it appropriately and there is little disruption albeit for the fact that it does leave the rest with more work, more call.

Besides, the real argument is not about lactation or any gender based issue per se, but rather about Dr. Currier asking for additional time concessions for a condition/problem/whatever you want to call it that is of her own making. She had a choice about when to schedule her exam (BOTH times). By allowing (possible) unlimited exceptions to the rules about how the exam is administered, you invalidate it.

This is about an elitist individual who has had opportunities afforded her that the vast majority of people with ADD have not and about someone who has failed an exam that more than 90% of AMGs pass on the first try and is attempting to use her child and her disability as a reason to get more testing time. She seems to have a great capacity to fail to understand the concept of test validation and that if you can't do something under the standard conditions and terms, then you have to make another choice.

 

[baylormed]

what do you have against sex, dude? fear of the unknown?

Thank you for that, VFTW.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

what do you have against sex, dude? fear of the unknown?

Nothing wrong with sex. It's just you need to take responsibility for not taking precautions and creating a child. If two people screw and either produce a child, get a STD, whatever they need to realize that they made it happen. It's not somebody else's fault, nor should other people be required to take the blame or monetary responsibility for it while the people engaging in sex get off the hook.

You want to play, you gotta take the responsibility when crap happens.

You have an unplanned child, well sometimes you'll have to make accommodations in your life. You can't expect everyone to make all the concessions and you get to sail through. Yeah, we should have laws to protect families from discrimination, but you also don't have a right to stick it to everyone just because you either decided or were reckless with birth control and procreated.

 

[Dr. McDreamy]

In Reversal, Student is Given Extra Exam time To Pump Breast Milk

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but it looks like she's getting the extra time.

 

[Winged Scapula]

In Reversal, Student is Given Extra Exam time To Pump Breast Milk

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but it looks like she's getting the extra time.

Yep...see post #417 and those that follow.

The NBME is fighting the appeal...

 

[alwaysaangel]

Yep...see post #417 and those that follow.

The NBME is fighting the appeal...

I hope they're quick - I hope they waste all her time between now and next Thur and Fri making her show up in court so she can't study and then at the last minute - win their appeal and take her breaks away.

She'll be left not only with no extra breaks but she will likely fail if she doesn't study at all.

And I think this will be the last appeal right? I don't really know how many times a person can appeal. But she can't push it back too much more since its already October and she starts in November so even if NBME pushes it back - she can't postpone her test too much longer to submit further appeals. Or she risks losing her MGH position - which would be just soooo tragic

 

[deleted87716]

She'll be left not only with no extra breaks but she will likely fail if she doesn't study at all.

If she fails, something tells me she'll blame everyone except herself.

 

[Miami_med]

If she fails, something tells me she'll blame everyone except herself.

But it really is there fault. They made the test too hard.

 

[alwaysaangel]

If she fails, something tells me she'll blame everyone except herself.

Just like the first time

I believe she said something along the lines of "You take 1.5 years off after medical school and take a test 8.5 months pregnant so sick that you had to be hospitalized"

Not her own fault - the time off and the pregnancy.

She really is one of the most incredibly pathetic human beings I have ever seen. Hell, I've seen homeless people in Berkeley who at least have the intelligence to admit its their own fault they're on the street.

 

[Tired]

How different would this discussion be if gestation, lactation, etc. happened exclusively in men? If fact, how different would the residency training system be? Let's face it, medicine is still dominated by men, many of whom appear to have a disdain for anything - including bearing children and raising a family - that distracts doctors from their calling. It's unfortunate.

What a weak little argument.

 

[BabyBop]

How different would this discussion be if gestation, lactation, etc. happened exclusively in men? If fact, how different would the residency training system be? Let's face it, medicine is still dominated by men, many of whom appear to have a disdain for anything - including bearing children and raising a family - that distracts doctors from their calling. It's unfortunate.

What a good little argument.

Men can have babies at any time in their training without having to think of the consequences for their colleagues, and without suffering any resentment for becoming parents. The only choice for women is do it then, take the least maternity leave possible, and still annoy some people, or not do it at all.

Or even better, they get blamed by some people here for (gasp) daring to have sex. I can't wait to have this conversation with my husband. "Darling, my IUD has a 0.5% failure rate (which is better than tubals or vasectomies, by the way), so since I'm responsible and wouldn't want to have an unplanned pregnancy during residency, I think we should abstain for the next 3 years. I'm sure you understand; I need to be responsible and considerate of the other residents' time."

Edited to add: I'm speaking about maternity leave/breastfeeding in general, not about Ms. Currier.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Yeah, we should have laws to protect families from discrimination, but you also don't have a right to stick it to everyone just because you either decided or were reckless with birth control and procreated.

Not really sure how these two work together. So should we or should we not have the right to have children at times that are inconvenient to others?

And again, I still disagree with the "reckless" title for procreation. And maybe a mean and inappropriate thing to say, but I imagine you would feel differently if your preferred sexual acts resulted in pregnancy. It's easy to be appalled about people accidentally getting pregnant when it's something you never have to worry about.

 

[smq123]

Men can have babies at any time in their training without having to think of the consequences for their colleagues, and without suffering any resentment for becoming parents. The only choice for women is do it then, take the least maternity leave possible, and still annoy some people, or not do it at all.

Or even better, they get blamed by some people here for (gasp) daring to have sex. I can't wait to have this conversation with my husband. "Darling, my IUD has a 0.5% failure rate (which is better than tubals or vasectomies, by the way), so since I'm responsible and wouldn't want to have an unplanned pregnancy during residency, I think we should abstain for the next 3 years. I'm sure you understand; I need to be responsible and considerate of the other residents' time."

No, there's another choice - do it as an attending. Depending on your specialty and particular practice options, it can be much better. Plus, you're not inconveniencing an entire residency program. Or do it during your research/off-service month.

Is it inhumane to demand that people purposely push back have children until they're attendings? Probably! Is it inhumane to demand that people work 120 hours a week (like residency programs used to do)? Probably! Is it inhumane to treat junior residents like crap that you wouldn't dare to touch without gloves? Probably!

Residency is an inhumane time during your medical training. Get used to it.

On a gentler note: I suspect that the problem is that the attitude demonstrated here seems kind of cavalier and extremely selfish. "If I get pregnant, there's not much that I can do about that, so the other residents will just have to deal with it!" To people who have experience with being a resident, this kind of attitude is horrifying and unrealistic - I mean, you spend 15 hours a day with your fellow residents, and only 9 at home. You have to take their lives into consideration at some point, if you have any compassion for your co-workers at all.

Obviously, I'm sure that you don't actually HAVE this attitude, and that, if you did become pregnant as a resident, you'd make the arrangements necessary. But writing things out on message boards can often skew the message somewhat.

And again, I still disagree with the "reckless" title for procreation. And maybe a mean and inappropriate thing to say, but I imagine you would feel differently if your preferred sexual acts resulted in pregnancy. It's easy to be appalled about people accidentally getting pregnant when it's something you never have to worry about.

Sorry, I think that this is pretty irrelevant, and heading into dangerous waters. LifetimeDoc will never get pregnant (and will probably never get anyone pregnant either), but that doesn't mean that his opinion means less than yours or mine. That's kind of the point of this discussion - a lot of the women here (particularly people early in the med school training path) have been saying that getting pregnant only affects the woman who is carrying the child. Others (particularly people who are currently residents) have argued that getting pregnant affects you, your family, and (in a residency program) your coworkers. So, in some way, their input DOES (sort of) matter.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Sorry, I think that this is pretty irrelevant, and heading into dangerous waters. LifetimeDoc will never get pregnant (and will probably never get anyone pregnant either), but that doesn't mean that his opinion means less than yours or mine. That's kind of the point of this discussion - a lot of the women here (particularly people early in the med school training path) have been saying that getting pregnant only affects the woman who is carrying the child. Others (particularly people who are currently residents) have argued that getting pregnant affects you, your family, and (in a residency program) your coworkers. So, in some way, their input DOES (sort of) matter.

Well, I thought a long time before posting that, and I stand by my contention. LifetimeDoc displayed absolutely no sensitivity or understanding for the fact that accidental pregnancies do indeed happen and don't necessarily make one a horribly irresponsible unfit to be a doctor type of person. If he didn't display so much vitriol toward woman who find themselves pregnant, maybe I wouldn't have felt compelled to make that comment. Again, I think it's easy to make when you've never had a pregnancy scare in spite of being on birth control.

And I was waiting for the insinuation that I was homophobic for posting that above to pop up. Not true, but you can believe what you want.

And, finally, no one's saying there should be no consequences for getting pregnant. However, the end result is that women, even *gasp* residents who accidentally get pregnant, need to be accommodated. Anything short of that would essentially be forcing women to be completely abstinent or terminate any pregnancy.

 

[smq123]

Again, I think it's easy to make when you've never had a pregnancy scare in spite of being on birth control.

(For the record, I am a biological female.)

And I was waiting for the insinuation that I was homophobic for posting that above to pop up. Not true, but you can believe what you want.

Oh for goodness sake.

Never insinuated that you were homophobic. By "dangerous waters" I meant that we were headed towards the discussion of "I'm a woman, and this is my body, and therefore my opinion matters more than a man's, because a man will never get pregnant." I hate this argument. No, a man will never get pregnant, and some men will never get another woman pregnant. But, in many cases, a pregnancy does NOT affect just the life of the woman who is carrying the baby. It affects her partner's life. It affects her co-workers lives, in some instances.

Pregnancy doesn't always occur in a social vacuum.

And, finally, no one's saying there should be no consequences for getting pregnant. However, the end result is that women, even *gasp* residents who accidentally get pregnant, need to be accommodated. Anything short of that would essentially be forcing women to be completely abstinent or terminate any pregnancy.

Nobody is saying that residents who accidentally get pregnant won't be accomodated. The argument is - is planning on getting pregnant while a resident inconsiderate of your fellow residents?

"Darling, my IUD has a 0.5% failure rate (which is better than tubals or vasectomies, by the way), so since I'm responsible and wouldn't want to have an unplanned pregnancy during residency, I think we should abstain for the next 3 years."

To merge this with another thread - You know you're in med school when you say to yourself, "I HOPE that her IUD doesn't fail." Not because it will inconvenience other residents, but because it could increase her risk of an ectopic. (Darn OB shelf....)

 

[ForbiddenComma]

I have to agree with Bagel here. It's pretty easy for Lifetime to judge people who have (or cause) unintended pregnancies if that's something he will never have to worry about himself. Lifetime would be better served by showing some empathy. What if he and his partner were forced to adopt a nephew due to a death in the family?

I think that any solid residency program would plan ahead for this sort of family event, just as they have contigency plans for residents who wash out. In addition, a resident who takes more than a couple months maternity leave will be paying the price herself by delaying graduation and risking "mommy tracking" in terms of employment, chief residency selection, etc -- it's not like she faces zero consequences for her pregnancy.

To merge this with another thread - You know you're in med school when you say to yourself, "I HOPE that her IUD doesn't fail." Not because it will inconvenience other residents, but because it could increase her risk of an ectopic. (Darn OB shelf....)

thanks for the tidbit... that's my next rotation.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I have to agree with Bagel here. It's pretty easy for Lifetime to judge people who have (or cause) unintended pregnancies if that's something he will never have to worry about himself. Lifetime would be better served by showing some empathy. What if he and his partner were forced to adopt a nephew due to a death in the family?

Exactly what I was trying to say. I'm certainly not saying the conversation should be limited to people who can/will procreate. However, I'd be more willing to listen to LifetimeDoc if he showed more understanding and a little less anger. Which is why my comments were directed solely at him.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

By "dangerous waters" I meant that we were headed towards the discussion of "I'm a woman, and this is my body, and therefore my opinion matters more than a man's, because a man will never get pregnant." I hate this argument. No, a man will never get pregnant, and some men will never get another woman pregnant. But, in many cases, a pregnancy does NOT affect just the life of the woman who is carrying the baby. It affects her partner's life. It affects her co-workers lives, in some instances.

Everyone understands that, and this was not the argument I was making. As mentioned above, my comments were directed solely at LifetimeDoc and were in direct response to his straight up anger at women who found themselves accidentally pregnant. What's that old statement -- something about not judging people until you've walked in their shoes.

His opinions about accommodation/not accommodation are fine, but his statements about the recklessness and irresponsibility of getting pregnant frankly bug me because it's something he doesn't know much about.

 

[BabyBop]

No, there's another choice - do it as an attending. Depending on your specialty and particular practice options, it can be much better. Plus, you're not inconveniencing an entire residency program. Or do it during your research/off-service month.

Well sure, but I was responding to the gender bias argument. Men don't have to wait until they're attendings. If they did, do you think they would be so content with the status quo? Especially if they had this thing called "biological clock."

Yes, pregnancy and parenthood affects Daddy too, but certainly not to the same extent. Again, men don't have to take into account how much their "pregnancy" or their wife's lactation will affect their coworkers.

Again, I'm about to have what should be my last baby and I'm a fourth year, so this isn't a personal concern. But I would fully support any coworker who plans (or doesn't plan, but gets) a residency baby and isn't totally inconsiderate or nasty about it - I will surely be annoyed by the extra workload though, I admit that.

 

[BabyBop]

And maybe a mean and inappropriate thing to say, but I imagine you would feel differently if your preferred sexual acts resulted in pregnancy. It's easy to be appalled about people accidentally getting pregnant when it's something you never have to worry about.

Interesting... I didn't know anything about this person, but I kept thinking he has GOT to be either gay or the 40-year-old virgin to be so judgmental about unplanned pregnancies. Even *perfectly used* birth control methods have failure rates. We're not even talking about forgetting your pill or broken condoms...

 

[Pembleton]

My crystal ball predicts a Lifetime TV Movie coming out of all of this. Of course, they'll need to fit in an evil man into this scenario.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Not really sure how these two work together. So should we or should we not have the right to have children at times that are inconvenient to others?

And again, I still disagree with the "reckless" title for procreation. And maybe a mean and inappropriate thing to say, but I imagine you would feel differently if your preferred sexual acts resulted in pregnancy. It's easy to be appalled about people accidentally getting pregnant when it's something you never have to worry about.

Well, you either decide to have a child (which is great) or you failed to use proper protection (i.e. being reckless. i.e. forgetting to use a condom, taking your pill, etc. is reckless). Children aren't accidents, no matter what people say. If somebody gets pregnant, it's either by choice or somebody forgot to be responsible for their own actions. You just don't spontaneously get pregnant.

You have the right to have children anytime you wish. But you need to understand that you have to make the time to have them. If you are in school or you sign-on to something (like residency) where you are expected to be there all the time, you need to plan accordingly. For regular jobs (like when you are an attending) you can choose anytime you wish because the system is setup for things like that, where people can cover for you. While you are in school or residency, it's difficult for you to just disappear for a few months and still expect other people to pull-up the slack because you can't just hire another doctor to take your place in medical school or residency.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Everyone understands that, and this was not the argument I was making. As mentioned above, my comments were directed solely at LifetimeDoc and were in direct response to his straight up anger at women who found themselves accidentally pregnant. What's that old statement -- something about not judging people until you've walked in their shoes.

His opinions about accommodation/not accommodation are fine, but his statements about the recklessness and irresponsibility of getting pregnant frankly bug me because it's something he doesn't know much about.

How do women accidentally get pregnant? Do they somehow slip on the floor and rub themselves on some semen? Do you just run into somebody on the bus, and get impregnated?

No! You are an adult engaging in sex acts. Either you and your partner act responsibly or you take the risk of getting pregnant, STDs, etc.. Sex, STDs, whatever are not accidents. They result from engaging in sex, which is just fine. But don't call it an accident. Take responsibility for what happens. Don't just chalk-it-up to some divine thing or accident.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

I have to agree with Bagel here. It's pretty easy for Lifetime to judge people who have (or cause) unintended pregnancies if that's something he will never have to worry about himself. Lifetime would be better served by showing some empathy. What if he and his partner were forced to adopt a nephew due to a death in the family?

If I went skydiving, and got hurt...should my residency program hold my spot and just forgive me for taking a chance on such a dangerous sport?

Sure, I feel for anyone who gets accidentaly pregnant. But you can't have everyone saying that...we'll, it's an accident, therefore I have no responsibility. My fellow residents have that responsibility, or it's somebody else's fault. If you want to have a child, you have to take responsibility for it if you are going to have sex. Is responsibility too much to ask from people? Am I being unreasonable?

Oh, and my girlfriend and I (in the past) worried about getting pregnant. We took many precautions to make sure that it didn't happen, and if I had gotten her pregnant I wouldn't have called it an accident. We both engaged in something we both knew could result in a pregnancy, and I would have been proud to have been a father to take on that responsibility. I wouldn't have expected everyone (and sure as hell wouldn't have sued people) to have to sacrifice things in their life because of my choice.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

And I was waiting for the insinuation that I was homophobic for posting that above to pop up. Not true, but you can believe what you want.

And, finally, no one's saying there should be no consequences for getting pregnant. However, the end result is that women, even *gasp* residents who accidentally get pregnant, need to be accommodated. Anything short of that would essentially be forcing women to be completely abstinent or terminate any pregnancy.

Homophobia? You got me. I never thought that and never mentioned it. You did, though not sure why.

So if I engage in dangerous sports while a resident/medical school, or I go out drinking and something happens...I can just chalk it up to chance? Mad spirts, a spree? I never said you had to terminate a pregnancy. I never said that women should be forced to do anything. I think that both men and women need to take responsibility for pregnancies though, because they didn't "just happen". So sex is now something protected, and anything that arises from it shouldn't require the parents to have any responsibility for procreating?

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

My crystal ball predicts a Lifetime TV Movie coming out of all of this. Of course, they'll need to fit in an evil man into this scenario.

The head of the NBME. Put him in a tophat, big handlebar mustache, and a cape.

"Muahahaha, oh Dr. Currier, you should have never dared to lactate! We'll make sure you will never be a doctor! *Twirls mustache* Muahahaha!"

 

[smq123]

It's pretty easy for Lifetime to judge people who have (or cause) unintended pregnancies if that's something he will never have to worry about himself.

His opinions about accommodation/not accommodation are fine, but his statements about the recklessness and irresponsibility of getting pregnant frankly bug me because it's something he doesn't know much about.

Oh, and my girlfriend and I (in the past) worried about getting pregnant.

LifetimeDoc - thanks for sharing your thoughts, and for eloquently demonstrating an important lesson that all of us med students need to remember: NEVER ASSUME!

 

[Winged Scapula]

I think that any solid residency program would plan ahead for this sort of family event, just as they have contigency plans for residents who wash out.

What contingency plans?

You mean making every one left behind work more, or in the case of programs with research years, pulling people out of the lab?

Most programs do not have contingency plans if someone quits or is fired. If its very early in the year they may be able to hire someone else, but in general, you just do without or ruin someone else's plans by making them come out of the lab.

 

[Instatewaiter]

What a good little argument.

Men can have babies at any time in their training without having to think of the consequences for their colleagues, and without suffering any resentment for becoming parents.

men are evil

Oh, and my girlfriend and I (in the past) worried about getting pregnant.

But no longer since she wont have sex with him anymore...

How do women accidentally get pregnant? Do they somehow slip on the floor and rub themselves on some semen? Do you just run into somebody on the bus, and get impregnated?

Yeah I think that happens. A fried of mine was cleaning her apt floor and fell - BAM pregnant. I blame the linoleum companies.

 

[Writer1985]

So, can someone enlighten me as to the actual structure of residency? I always thought that while you have a "class" of residents who come together for didactics and whatever, in terms of actual patient care, you're all on different rotations (especially in intern year). So if Sally delivers and takes maternity leave during her Neurology rotation, how does that affect Bob, who is spending the month in the ICU?

If people here are so up in arms about hypothetical pregnancies and maternity leaves, I'm sure Ms. Currier's future colleagues are livid. She's not starting her residency until November (if she passes), so they've been picking up the slack since July. Not to mention that the thought of working with someone who has her lawyer on speed dial just makes me sick.

 

[Abilene85]

How do women accidentally get pregnant? Do they somehow slip on the floor and rub themselves on some semen? Do you just run into somebody on the bus, and get impregnated?

I definitely agree with you that couples should take responsibility for their decision to have sex and run the risk of getting pregnant, but you should acknowledge that it is possible for a pregnancy to be an accident, even if birth control is used correctly. Contraceptive methods have failure rates. These rates (claiming to be around 0.3-0.8%) reflect the chance of pregnancy in a woman who is using the method properly. Multiply the normal failure rate by a few thousand residents having sex on a regular basis, and you come up with some unwanted pregnancies that some may terminate and others may keep. Obviously, if you forget to take the pill (for example), the rates become much greater. Still, if you are completely responsible with your method of choice, there is a risk.

Like I said, I agree with a lot of the points you are making. I just think some of the ladies on this thread wouldn't take such an issue with your comments if you were a little more sensitive to the fact that accidental pregnancies are possible, even if the couple is acting responsibly with their method of birth control.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

I definitely agree with you that couples should take responsibility for their decision to have sex and run the risk of getting pregnant, but you should acknowledge that it is possible for a pregnancy to be an accident, even if birth control is used correctly. Contraceptive methods have failure rates. These rates (claiming to be around 0.3-0.8%) reflect the chance of pregnancy in a woman who is using the method properly. Multiply the normal failure rate by a few thousand residents having sex on a regular basis, and you come up with some unwanted pregnancies that some may terminate and others may keep. Obviously, if you forget to take the pill (for example), the rates become much greater. Still, if you are completely responsible with your method of choice, there is a risk.

Like I said, I agree with a lot of the points you are making. I just think some of the ladies on this thread wouldn't take such an issue with your comments if you were a little more sensitive to the fact that accidental pregnancies are possible, even if the couple is acting responsibly with their method of birth control.

I understand that with precautions, unintended pregnancies are a possibility. But a couple chose to have sex. It's not something that just happens, it's a consious choice to have sex. If it results in a child, well then you've got a lot of work on your hands which will change your life. I feel that you have to accept that responsibility. Some people forgo getting married until they are out of medical school and residency, abstain from sex, do whatever so that they can complete their training. Or they work with their program to take a year off. No big deal.

The issue is when you decide (this could be a man or woman) that you are going to sue and force your program (or medical licensing board) to make your conscious decision to have sex (that resulted in a baby) something that you have no responsibility for. That men or women who have children should be allowed to just side-step requirements that other people who chose not to have a child (or to engage in sex) have to endure. As if sex was some protected form of recreation (and it is recreation unless you are actively trying to have a child). If I were to engage in any other form of recreation that resulted in something that affected my work, the school or residency would require me to either make accommodations myself or to repeat the year. Why should sex be any different?

 

[Northerner]

I definitely agree with you that couples should take responsibility for their decision to have sex and run the risk of getting pregnant, but you should acknowledge that it is possible for a pregnancy to be an accident, even if birth control is used correctly. Contraceptive methods have failure rates. These rates (claiming to be around 0.3-0.8%) reflect the chance of pregnancy in a woman who is using the method properly. Multiply the normal failure rate by a few thousand residents having sex on a regular basis, and you come up with some unwanted pregnancies that some may terminate and others may keep. Obviously, if you forget to take the pill (for example), the rates become much greater. Still, if you are completely responsible with your method of choice, there is a risk.

Like I said, I agree with a lot of the points you are making. I just think some of the ladies on this thread wouldn't take such an issue with your comments if you were a little more sensitive to the fact that accidental pregnancies are possible, even if the couple is acting responsibly with their method of birth control.

This whole idea about accidental pregnancies "happening" is all well and good, but in practice it's precisely the problem. People (fellow residents) probably would be much more understanding if they knew that it was indeed unintentional, unwanted, and every reasonable effort was made to prevent it.

Truth is, they don't. Even if you were to assure them of that fact, they'd probably still think it was BS. Why? Because women lie constantly. The tiny amount of inevitable legitimately accidental pregnancies aren't the problem, it's the potential for using that as a me-centered excuse to have a baby whenever you damn please no matter who it screws. It's a spin-off of the whole scene where women get pregnant (from not being careful, not using enough contraception, missing a pill or two, etc.) and then blaming it on the pill failing to excuse themselves from the shame of having a reckless, unwanted, her-fault pregnancy. Do accidental pregnancies happen even in the case of 100% compliant, nearly perfect effectiveness contraception? Of course. But I'd be interested to see how many unwanted pregnancies are predicted by the failure rate vs. how many women CLAIM unwanted pregnancy from contraception failure.

 

[smq123]

So, can someone enlighten me as to the actual structure of residency? I always thought that while you have a "class" of residents who come together for didactics and whatever, in terms of actual patient care, you're all on different rotations (especially in intern year). So if Sally delivers and takes maternity leave during her Neurology rotation, how does that affect Bob, who is spending the month in the ICU?

Because now the neurology department is left understaffed, because Sally is no longer there.

Which means that either Dave (who was scheduled to go on vacation) will have to give up some vacation time to cover neuro, or the other residents who are also on their neuro rotation will have to work extra hard (and probably have to work longer hours) to cover more patients.

 

[Snuffleupagus]

why is this such a big deal? when a woman resident discovers she is pregnant, she should try hard to help out extra while she is pregnant, making life easier for her co-residents at the time. she can do this for up to nine months (depending on how long she carries and when she finds out she's pregnant).

when she later goes on maternity leave, her co-residents should be happy to repay the favor by picking up her slack while she is attending to her newborn. they have to do this for some six weeks, until she returns.

it can be mutually beneficial.

 

[Tired]

Because now the neurology department is left understaffed, because Sally is no longer there.

Which means that either Dave (who was scheduled to go on vacation) will have to give up some vacation time to cover neuro, or the other residents who are also on their neuro rotation will have to work extra hard (and probably have to work longer hours) to cover more patients.

Or the other brutal scenario:

"Hey Dave, I know you're on ICU, and you're on call every fourth night, but we're going to need you to cover neurology every third night as well because Sally is gone."

 

[BabyBop]

Some people forgo getting married until they are out of medical school and residency, abstain from sex, do whatever so that they can complete their training. Or they work with their program to take a year off. No big deal.

How in the world is taking a year off as a resident helpful? They don't hire anyone new for that year, no more than they do for the 6 weeks of maternity leave. Now you're gone for a whole year instead!

And why do you think it's such "poor planning" to have children while in medical school? It doesn't affect anyone else then. Why do you (and others) think it's such "good planning" to have them as an attending? People still have to cover for you: it will either cost your group money to hire a locum, or time to pick up the extra workload (and I know of many groups who chose the latter, making it no different than residency).

 

[Writer1985]

Because now the neurology department is left understaffed, because Sally is no longer there.

Which means that either Dave (who was scheduled to go on vacation) will have to give up some vacation time to cover neuro, or the other residents who are also on their neuro rotation will have to work extra hard (and probably have to work longer hours) to cover more patients.

Ok, I see. I don't know where I got the idea that everyone is on a different service and wouldn't cross-cover.

But I still don't see why this has to be such a big deal. Like Snuffleupagus said, if the pregnant resident is hard-working and takes extra call through her pregnancy, the other residents ought to be ok with returning the favor for a month or so. Yes, there are bitchwomen, but I'd like to think they are few. (Though of course they would be the most vocal about demanding time off, and annoying to work with in general.)

 

[Winged Scapula]

Or the other brutal scenario:

"Hey Dave, I know you're on ICU, and you're on call every fourth night, but we're going to need you to cover neurology every third night as well because Sally is gone."

Or as happened to me as an intern:

"Hey Kim, I know you're on ICU and enjoying going home early PRE-CALL and POST-CALL days, but we need you to cover CT Surgery every SECOND night (ok, this was the old days) while Sally is gone."

Someone got pulled from a cush elective to cover me on trauma when I needed emergency surgery as an R-2 (we were already down someone on vacation). Nothing could be done about that, but you can believe I hurried back ASAP to relieve him.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Ok, I see. I don't know where I got the idea that everyone is on a different service and wouldn't cross-cover.

As was explained several pages before and above, services run on minimum manpower...it is the rare one which has too many residents and too few patients. Thus, when someone is gone from a rotation, for whatever reason, the rest of the residents on that service have more patients per resident to see, more time on call, etc. and if its an especially busy service, someone from a relatively overstaffed rotation or in the lab might be pulled to cover you while you're gone.

But I still don't see why this has to be such a big deal. Like Snuffleupagus said, if the pregnant resident is hard-working and takes extra call through her pregnancy, the other residents ought to be ok with returning the favor for a month or so. Yes, there are bitchwomen, but I'd like to think they are few. (Though of course they would be the most vocal about demanding time off, and annoying to work with in general.)

It shouldn't be a big deal, but it becomes one largely because of work hour restrictions, the pregnant resident can't take enough call to compensate for all she will miss while she is gone. And call isn't the only issue...there is the day to day work which can be more grinding than the extra call. If someone is missing from the team and it means you have several more patients to round on, you might have to come in 30-45 minutes earlier every day to get the work done.

Look, almost every one is understanding that pregnancies, illnesses, emergencies, etc. happen and we will have to cover for each other when they do. Its the expectation that we will be happy about doing more work for you or not realizing the affect it has on the team which is demoralizing.

The issue is not as critical as an attending. Your group can control the number of patients seen/admitted/etc. whereas there is little control as a resident. Some will hire a locum but in general this is not common practice (if only because locums are very expensive).

 

[Depakote]

My crystal ball predicts a Lifetime TV Movie coming out of all of this. Of course, they'll need to fit in an evil man into this scenario.

The head of the NBME. Put him in a tophat, big handlebar mustache, and a cape.

"Muahahaha, oh Dr. Currier, you should have never dared to lactate! We'll make sure you will never be a doctor! *Twirls mustache* Muahahaha!"

You can take away my pump... but you can't take away my dream!

 

[Tired]

But I still don't see why this has to be such a big deal. Like Snuffleupagus said, if the pregnant resident is hard-working and takes extra call through her pregnancy . . .

Do you really think that ever happens?

 

[Blade28]

It's frustrating because almost everyone having difficulty comprehending how difficult it is when a resident goes on maternity leave IS STILL A MED STUDENT.

Once you start residency, you'll understand. Of course no one begrudes their colleague for having a baby. Of course no one really wants to screw over their colleagues (well, most of the time, anyway). Of course we don't want women to start having kids after age 35-40.

But to feel entitled to take off time whenever you "happen" to become pregnant, and to not care about thrusting the extra workload onto your coresidents - well that's just wrong.

But I still don't see why this has to be such a big deal. Like Snuffleupagus said, if the pregnant resident is hard-working and takes extra call through her pregnancy, the other residents ought to be ok with returning the favor for a month or so.

Again, it doesn't work this way. It would be great (and fair) if the pregnant resident took extra call either before or after her maternity leave, so that the total number of calls still equalled out - but this is almost never done.

An accurate analogy would be taking sick time for a bad illness - you're gone for a few weeks, people pick up the slack while you're gone, and when you come back, things go back for normal.

Except that with pregnancy, everyone knows it's coming.

 

[Depakote]

Admittedly, I've only known a few people that have had kids... but I'm pretty sure that pregnancy and having that kid for the first few months takes enough out of you that you're not jumping to take any extra call just for the sake of evening things out.

 

[akpete]

But to feel entitled to take off time whenever you "happen" to become pregnant, and to not care about thrusting the extra workload onto your coresidents - well that's just wrong.

What gets me about this thread is the implication from many people that ALL women just don't care. Just because Currier (and I'm sure a few others) is a bitch doesn't mean that all women who get pregnant during residency completely do not care about their collegues. I would like to think that it's not a sense of entitlement. Aside from ending the pregnancy, the woman will have to take time off. Most will feel bad for their collegues, but don't have a way to rectify it.

This is a case of a few women giving all a bad rap.

 

[BabyBop]

It's frustrating because almost everyone having difficulty comprehending how difficult it is when a resident goes on maternity leave IS STILL A MED STUDENT.

Interestingly, the people who are most vocal about how unfair this is, how women are unreasonable, how they *have* to wait until after residency, are also med students!

Once you start residency, you'll understand. Of course no one begrudes their colleague for having a baby. Of course no one really wants to screw over their colleagues (well, most of the time, anyway). Of course we don't want women to start having kids after age 35-40. But to feel entitled to take off time whenever you "happen" to become pregnant, and to not care about thrusting the extra workload onto your coresidents - well that's just wrong.

See, that is very reasonable to me. Same with what KimberliCox and others have been saying.

 

[Tired]

Interestingly, the people who are most vocal about how unfair this is, how women are unreasonable, how they *have* to wait until after residency, are also med students!

I think that Dr. Blade28, Dr. Kimberli Cox, and myself (Dr. Tired) beg to disagree.