Med student steals dying patient's iPad

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I'm curious how the "admissions system is perfect" crew contorts this event into their delusion. She had $500k+ annually in scholarships, "volunteered" and "served" so diligently. Just looking through her resume, it screams, "I'm a phony," but it was admissions porn.

You can bet, if this wasn't public news, the school would have buried this so hard. I understand she was dismissed from the hospital, but is still currently a student awaiting review.

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I'm curious how the "admissions system is perfect" crew contorts this event into their delusion.

(a) I'm not sure I've ever met someone who is of the belief that admissions are perfect

b) As soon as you develop a perfect system to screen for deviance/sociopathy/whathaveyou, please let us all know. Until then, I fail to see how extreme examples like this have any implications for the system as a whole.
 
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(a) I'm not sure I've ever met someone who is of the belief that admissions are perfect
You need to frequent the premed forum a bit more.
b) As soon as you develop a perfect system to screen for deviance/sociopathy/whathaveyou, please let us all know. Until then, I fail to see how extreme examples like this have any implications for the system as a whole.
Right, because "it can't be perfect" is the best reason to not try to improve. Giving up, the motto to live by, lol.
 
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Right, because "it can't be perfect" is the best reason to not try to improve. Giving up, the motto to live by, lol.

That's not what I said. I said that a rare example like this has no implications for the system as a whole.

Unless there is more to the story than we know, this was the first instance of illegal behavior by the student. It's not like she had a rap sheet that the school ignored.

Unless you have a suggestion of how schools should effectively screen for behavior like this, her case has no relevance to medical school admissions.
 
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That's not what I said. I said that a rare example like this has no implications for the system as a whole.

Unless there is more to the story than we know, this was the first instance of illegal behavior by the student. It's not like she had a rap sheet that the school ignored.

Unless you have a suggestion of how schools should effectively screen for behavior like this, her case has no relevance to medical school admissions.
Why doesn't it have implications? You feel this is an outlier, so it should just be ignored?

Medical schools are already very unforgiving for criminal acts before admissions; why should it be more lax after?

Why does it matter if I have a suggestion or not? Shouldn't schools try to prevent people like this from becoming physicians?
 
Why doesn't it have implications? You feel this is an outlier, so it should just be ignored?

Yes

Medical schools are already very unforgiving for criminal acts before admissions; why should it be more lax after?

Where did I say that?

Why does it matter if I have a suggestion or not?

You are using this case as a criticism of medical school admissions, yet you have nothing substantial to criticize it on. Unless you can find something generalizable about her case that could have been broadly applied to the applicant pool to prevent her admission, there is nothing to criticize.

Shouldn't schools try to prevent people like this from becoming physicians?

How?
 
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Well, I guess we disagree that we should accept bad potential physicians as a matter of fact.
Where did I say that?
Then what did you say?
You are using this case as a criticism of medical school admissions, yet you have nothing substantial to criticize it on. Unless you can find something generalizable about her case that could have been broadly applied to the applicant pool to prevent her admission, there is nothing to criticize.
Your generalizations-to-rules on criticism are not facts. Why is this case not substantial? What makes it insubstantial? And by what measure are you saying I have nothing substantial? Can you provide what information I would need for your permission to criticize something?

And why are generalizations the de facto standard for admissions? I thought med schools look at individuals? I could have sworn it wasn't all MCAT and GPA, but hey, correct me if I'm wrong. If "generalizations" are what medical schools are using, boy, is that an easy first step I can already mock and provide improvements on, lol.
Improve, change, accept new ideas, fix the foci, etc. Where do you want to begin? lol
 
Well, I guess we disagree that we should accept bad potential physicians as a matter of fact.

Then what did you say?

Your generalizations-to-rules on criticism are not facts. Why is this case not substantial? What makes it insubstantial? And by what measure are you saying I have nothing substantial? Can you provide what information I would need for your permission to criticize something?

And why are generalizations the de facto standard for admissions? I thought med schools look at individuals? I could have sworn it wasn't all MCAT and GPA, but hey, correct me if I'm wrong. If "generalizations" are what medical schools are using, boy, is that an easy first step I can already mock and provide improvements on, lol.

Improve, change, accept new ideas, etc.

Please tell me how, in an absence of previous history of criminal behavior (which to my knowledge, this girl didn't have), schools can effectively identify potential future criminal behavior?

What lesson should admissions offices be learning?
 
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Please tell me how, in an absence of previous history of criminal behavior (which to my knowledge, this girl didn't have), schools can effectively identify potential future criminal behavior?

What lesson should admissions offices be learning?
Whoa, whoa, whoa, easy there, kiddo. No one said to go all Minority Report here. Who said to identify future criminal behavior? lol. I really am shocked that you're misconstruing a person who is caught with how many medical students remain at-large. She was caught because she isn't the brightest of the bunch. Seriously, if you steal an iPad, you sell it, you don't hold on to it. My interest here is not her criminal behavior, but her intentions overall, which are harder to identify, but not impossible. Have you looked at her LinkedIn profile vs her facebook? I mean, admissions admits to looking at both, but they didn't see anything shallow, or, at the very least, a disconnect between her professional and personal faces online?

My point is, admissions needs to change, and not a "oh, a little snippet here, a little biddle dazzle there;" I mean really question the entire process that has been around for centuries barely changed. Going digital doesn't count. I think, the very first lesson is, they need to accept the possibility that just because a process is old and persistent, doesn't make it perfect and "cannot be improved upon." Or, at the very least, forget the notion that, "Well, it's not perfect, but nothing is, so we should just not do anything."

It's a treasure-trove of content, frankly, so I need to ask you, what do I have your permission to criticize? Can we use non-generalizations? Or do we have to conform to old habits that lead to her admission to a rather awesome school? Again, if they are using generalizations, the only valid thing according to you, I would say "stop relying exclusively on generalizations." Do you agree?
 
It's a treasure-trove of content, frankly, so I need to ask you, what do I have your permission to criticize? Can we use non-generalizations?

You are welcome to criticize medical school admissions all you want. I just don't understand the context in which you are trying to use this case to do so.

Or do we have to conform to old habits that lead to her admission to a rather awesome school?

I disagree with your basic assertion that her getting admitted to medical school represents a failure of the admissions process. So I doubt we're going to make any progress since the disagreement is so fundamental.
 
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Have you looked at her LinkedIn profile vs her facebook? I mean, admissions admits to looking at both, but they didn't see anything shallow, or, at the very least, a disconnect between her professional and personal faces online?

I don't think she has a Facebook profile... I think the other girl with the same name who is a 4th year has a Facebook. I haven't seen one for the 3rd year. So yeah, there is obviously a discrepancy between the LinkedIn profile and the Facebook, because they are accounts for two different people.
 
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@type12 - how would you change it? I think it's pretty obvious that the admissions process is far from perfect (and everyone here agrees with that). But how would you make it better?
 
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You are welcome to criticize medical school admissions all you want. I just don't understand the context in which you are trying to use this case to do so.
I find it strange how it's not obvious how a medical student's performance can be used as a metric for medical school admissions. Hell, even adcoms use it.

I disagree with your basic assertion that her getting admitted to medical school represents is a failure of the admissions process. So I doubt we're going to make any progress since the disagreement is so fundamental.
Don't get me wrong, it's first and foremost a failure on her part. I was just curious how this would be spun and distorted in the minds of adcoms. I guess I now know.

I don't think she has a Facebook profile... I think the other girl with the same name who is a 4th year has a Facebook. I haven't seen one for the 3rd year. So yeah, there is obviously a discrepancy between the LinkedIn profile and the Facebook, because they are accounts for two different people.
She's disabled/closed her facebook now...
 
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@type12 - how would you change it? I think it's pretty obvious that the admissions process is far from perfect (and everyone here agrees with that). But how would you make it better?
Most of my opinions on this are not related to this thread, and I don't want this closed. It would be cool to have a thread about this, though, and I don't know if it's "obvious" that it's "far" from perfect, IMO. I see people seeing it as the best possible one, currently impossible to be improved upon.
 
Don't get me wrong, it's first and foremost a failure on her part. I was just curious how this would be spun and distorted in the minds of adcoms. I guess I now know.

I'm not an adcom.

If I were, and more specifically if I were one of the ones that admitted her, I'd be deeply troubled by her behavior. I'd probably pour over her file to try and figure out if there were some sign in her past that would have predicted this.

But I'm not, and in so far as I know from the public information about this case, there is nothing that would have enabled them to do so. Divining that she's a "phony" because she made statements about wanting to serve the poor or whatever is not a reliable measure.
 
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I'm not an adcom.

If I were, and more specifically if I were one of the ones that admitted her, I'd be deeply troubled by her behavior. I'd probably pour over her file to try and figure out if there were some sign in her past that would have predicted this.
I doubt this will happen. You'd make for a better adcom than most, IMO.

But I'm not, and in so far as I know from the public information about this case, there is nothing that would have enabled them to do so. Divining that she's a "phony" because she made statements about wanting to serve the poor or whatever is not a reliable measure.
Never said it was. Bear in mind, adcoms do have more information about their students than public news outlets.
 
I'm curious how the "admissions system is perfect" crew contorts this event into their delusion. She had $500k+ annually in scholarships, "volunteered" and "served" so diligently. Just looking through her resume, it screams, "I'm a phony," but it was admissions porn.

You can bet, if this wasn't public news, the school would have buried this so hard. I understand she was dismissed from the hospital, but is still currently a student awaiting review.

Half mil a yr? Where do I apply for this scholly?!
 
Half mil a yr? Where do I apply for this scholly?!
$300,000 annually from UCLA for "outstanding academic achievement, accomplishments, and leadership." She has bragged (in vietnamese) that she is the only one to ever receive this. Don't know how true this is, don't care enough to look into it.

$150,000 annually for the "passion to give back to the community." This scholarship is given to more than one candidate and is not exclusive to UCLA students.

Then various other awards, based on her vietnamese or "community service" status. Her flickr account is still active, but she uses three initials that aren't her english name for it. It's a good start to track this stuff down.
 
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Are you sure those scholarships aren't the total instead of yearly amounts? Not sure why any scholarships would pay more than cost of attendance yearly especially when others already cover more than cost of attendance.
 
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Are you sure those scholarships aren't the total instead of yearly amounts? Not sure why any scholarships would pay more than cost of attendance yearly especially when others already cover more than cost of attendance.
Hmmm, that would make more sense, lol. I dunno, I didn't really dive into it, but that seems more likely. That still adds up to $125k annually that she doesn't have to pay back.
 
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Are you sure those scholarships aren't the total instead of yearly amounts? Not sure why any scholarships would pay more than cost of attendance yearly especially when others already cover more than cost of attendance.

The UCLA one is definitely total. A 1.2 million dollar scholarship to go to medical school would be crazy.
 
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From what I heard second hand, she picked up an iPad which she thought was hers. When her password didn't work, she thought something was corrupted, and she did a hard reset. When she reset it, she named it for herself as she went along setting up the preferences. That's how it got renamed.

I have no idea about which version iOS it was running, if you can even do a hard reset on a locked iPad that way in any version or configuration, how the tracking works in that situation, etc. I'm also not sure if that means it was password locked totally, or just password locked at the preferences/settings. However someone who knows her told me that is what happened, so presumably that is what she is saying.
 
From what I heard second hand, she picked up an iPad which she thought was hers. When her password didn't work, she thought something was corrupted, and she did a hard reset. When she reset it, she named it for herself as she went along setting up the preferences. That's how it got renamed.

I have no idea about which version iOS it was running, if you can even do a hard reset on a locked iPad that way in any version or configuration, how the tracking works in that situation, etc. I'm also not sure if that means it was password locked totally, or just password locked at the preferences/settings. However someone who knows her told me that is what happened, so presumably that is what she is saying.

That's what I was thinking might have happened. Probably had the same generic background and everything. If it's true, it's really unfortunate because this story is probably the first thing that will come up when someone Googles her name.
 
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Hmmm, that would make more sense, lol. I dunno, I didn't really dive into it, but that seems more likely. That still adds up to $125k annually that she doesn't have to pay back.
You actually thought she got $300K annually and $100K annually and someone had to tell you in order for you to figure out it was off?
Maybe u should dive into things further before you start expounding about the admissions process.
 
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You actually thought she got $300K annually and $100K annually and someone had to tell you in order for you to figure out it was off?
Maybe u should dive into things further before you start expounding about the admissions process.
Scholarships and admissions are disparate things, IMO. I can make fun of Jung without knowing anything about Freud.
 
You actually thought she got $300K annually and $100K annually and someone had to tell you in order for you to figure out it was off?
Maybe u should dive into things further before you start expounding about the admissions process.

LOL. It would totally make sense for her scholarships to total more than the average income for an Attending Physician, right? $400K/yr what a joke
 
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Scholarships and admissions are disparate things, IMO. I can make fun of Jung without knowing anything about Freud.
I agree scholarships and admission are 2 separate things. So since you know common orders of magnitude, why did you think her getting 1.6 million dollars in scholarship money would make sense?
 
I agree scholarships and admission are 2 separate things. So since you know common orders of magnitude, why did you think her getting 1.6 million dollars in scholarship money would make sense?
I had no reason to doubt what she was bragging about on a vietnamese forum with others. I never heard of a "only one person ever" scholarship from UCLA, though, to be fair, google translate could have been my mistake.
 
I had no reason to doubt what she was bragging about on a vietnamese forum with others. I never heard of a "only one person ever" scholarship from UCLA, though, to be fair, google translate could have been my mistake.
You used Google translate on a Vietnamese newspaper? Oh, yeah, no mistakes there, I'm sure.
 
You used Google translate on a Vietnamese newspaper? Oh, yeah, no mistakes there, I'm sure.
Forum like SDN (but focus is Vietnam) , not a newspaper. I admit translating is not the best stuff, but she's deleted her resume/accounts from anywhere she used her english name.

EDIT: to clarify, I was totally wrong and stupid to not realize it should be a lump sum, I'm not justifying or defend that. Just explaining how I ended up being the fool.
 
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Well, I guess we disagree that we should accept bad potential physicians as a matter of fact.

Then what did you say?

Your generalizations-to-rules on criticism are not facts. Why is this case not substantial? What makes it insubstantial? And by what measure are you saying I have nothing substantial? Can you provide what information I would need for your permission to criticize something?

And why are generalizations the de facto standard for admissions? I thought med schools look at individuals? I could have sworn it wasn't all MCAT and GPA, but hey, correct me if I'm wrong. If "generalizations" are what medical schools are using, boy, is that an easy first step I can already mock and provide improvements on, lol.

Improve, change, accept new ideas, fix the foci, etc. Where do you want to begin? lol
Sociopaths and people with personality disorders will always slip through. One researcher pegged that about 4% of people are textbook sociopaths that will lie, manipulate, steal, whatever it takes to get ahead because the only think that is important to them is "me" and they feel no remorse for the harm they cause others. They are usually very, very good at hiding this fact, and appear on the outside to be normal people like you, me, or anyone else. And that's just one major personality disorder- picking all of the potentially harmful ones out would be damn near impossible.
 
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Forum like SDN (but focus is Vietnam) , not a newspaper. I admit translating is not the best stuff, but she's deleted her resume/accounts from anywhere she used her english name.

EDIT: to clarify, I was totally wrong and stupid to not realize it should be a lump sum, I'm not justifying or defend that. Just explaining how I ended up being the fool.
And on that we can agree.
 
From what I heard second hand, she picked up an iPad which she thought was hers. When her password didn't work, she thought something was corrupted, and she did a hard reset. When she reset it, she named it for herself as she went along setting up the preferences. That's how it got renamed.

I have no idea about which version iOS it was running, if you can even do a hard reset on a locked iPad that way in any version or configuration, how the tracking works in that situation, etc. I'm also not sure if that means it was password locked totally, or just password locked at the preferences/settings. However someone who knows her told me that is what happened, so presumably that is what she is saying.
You cannot perform a hard reset on iOS7 or newer without the iTunes user ID. It's impossible. On earlier versions, a hard reset would have cleared the iTunes account and inactivated the iCloud tracking software. Her claim is wrong on a lot of technical levels, but it'll probably be enough to convince a dumb jury or old judge that isn't all that tech savvy, especially if she has a good lawyer.
 
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I also highly doubt the thing was locked to begin with- if this woman was on death's doorstep, the last thing she probably wanted to do was stumble through a lock screen every time she wanted to use FaceTime to speak with her family. I've seen a lot of dying patients in my day, and most could hardly write their names near the end, let alone work a lock screen.
 
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And on that we can agree.
Not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. SDN could use more humility.
I also highly doubt the thing was locked to begin with- if this woman was on death's doorstep, the last thing she probably wanted to do was stumble through a lock screen every time she wanted to use FaceTime to speak with her family. I've seen a lot of dying patients in my day, and most could hardly write their names near the end, let alone work a lock screen.
Exactly. It wasn't locked based on the fact she could change the name, but she couldn't remove the iCloud account, and therefore could NOT format it. The only way to format an iPhone/iPad without knowing the password of the current iCloud account (which is what the parents used to track down the iPad), would be sophisticated hacking. Try without disabling iCloud: you cannot. You'd have to spoof to the device that you are Apple when it phones home (which has been done before); but then she only has the encryption key on the device. The fake Apple server has no way of decrypting anything, or responding correctly.

She'd probably receive a reward rather than punishment, lol, though intent would be pretty obvious at that point..
 
Sociopaths and people with personality disorders will always slip through. One researcher pegged that about 4% of people are textbook sociopaths that will lie, manipulate, steal, whatever it takes to get ahead because the only think that is important to them is "me" and they feel no remorse for the harm they cause others. They are usually very, very good at hiding this fact, and appear on the outside to be normal people like you, me, or anyone else. And that's just one major personality disorder- picking all of the potentially harmful ones out would be damn near impossible.
I agree with this 100%. I just don't think we should try to just give up because it's seemingly impossible. And while I wouldn't exactly peg her as a sociopath, I don't think sociopaths are the only types of people admissions misses to weed out.
 
I agree with this 100%. I just don't think we should try to just give up because it's seemingly impossible. And while I wouldn't exactly peg her as a sociopath, I don't think sociopaths are the only types of people admissions misses to weed out.
And yet you have yet to delineate a method to weed them out.
 
Weed out those like the UCLA student.
I'd be happy to. Can I get the same salary as an adcom and access to the same information they have? Including past applications? I'm literally giving this away, this type of service doesn't come cheap, lol.
 
I agree with this 100%. I just don't think we should try to just give up because it's seemingly impossible. And while I wouldn't exactly peg her as a sociopath, I don't think sociopaths are the only types of people admissions misses to weed out.
She probably isn't a sociopath, but medical school fails to weed out many of them- it was just an example of a common and difficult to eliminate personality disorder. My bet is she's just a klepto with an entitlement complex that figured this lady was dying anyway so why shouldn't she take the iPad.
 
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I'd be happy to. Can I get the same salary as an adcom and access to the same information they have? Including past applications? I'm literally giving this away, this type of service doesn't come cheap, lol.
Are you even reading properly? I just said you don't have an ACTUAL METHOD that can be replicated on weeding out bad applicants. Unless you're going by overall gestalt of the person, which makes your opinion no different than others. You realize some of the adcoms are PhD basic science professors who take time out to go thru this **** right? They don't get paid extra.
 
Are you even reading properly? I just said you don't have an ACTUAL METHOD that can be replicated on weeding out bad applicants. Unless you're going by overall gestalt of the person, which makes your opinion no different than others. You realize some of the adcoms are PhD basic science professors who take time out to go thru this **** right? They don't get paid extra.
I would love the opportunity to do so, but I don't just not get paid extra, I'm not getting paid at all. I'm just asking for the same money and access, and I guarantee better results. I have done so in the past, and there's nothing special here. I understand it's perceived as a special snowflake, but only because it's behind closed doors.
 
Are you even reading properly? I just said you don't have an ACTUAL METHOD that can be replicated on weeding out bad applicants. Unless you're going by overall gestalt of the person, which makes your opinion no different than others. You realize some of the adcoms are PhD basic science professors who take time out to go thru this **** right? They don't get paid extra.
We could just have all medical students undergo a standardized personality evaluation. That wouldn't at all be used to any political end whatsoever, certainly. :lame:
 
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We could just have all medical students undergo a standardized personality evaluation. That wouldn't at all be used to any political end at all whatsoever, certainly. :lame:
Rorschachs FTW
 
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Rorschachs FTW
fur1b.jpg

I see a kitten.
crazyvid.jpg

Oh look, another kitten.
638269665147aa362a3d86231a4ebe0b.jpg

Is med school all about kittens or what? Cause that's all I'm seeing.
 
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I would love the opportunity to do so, but I don't just not get paid extra, I'm not getting paid at all. I'm just asking for the same money and access, and I guarantee better results. I have done so in the past, and there's nothing special here. I understand it's perceived as a special snowflake, but only because it's behind closed doors.
You're not understanding (again). You have NO formula, method, or rubric to ensure you would do a better job than those who have done the job for years now. And those adcom members don't get paid at all to do adcom work either. There are no metrics that measure that - besides maybe no previous criminal record, which the UCLA student did not have.
 
We could just have all medical students undergo a standardized personality evaluation. That wouldn't at all be used to any political end whatsoever, certainly. :lame:
Well there are schools that do the MMI. Even a personality survey can be gamed.
 
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