med school and debt

[EctopicFetus]

In my mind there is NO doubt that DO's have a huge advantage over USFMGs. Many of the IMGs you meet who are impressive have often worked as attendings in their home country so their knowledge is way above where a AMGs is. I know this has been discussed ad nauseum so I wont get too far into it.

All I will say is that IN MY OPINION having an MD (from a US med school) is an advantage over a DO in getting a residency. THATS JUST MY OPINION.

If you look at the EM board there are a couple of guys (or gals) on there who are DOs with 250+ on their boards who didnt get interviewed at certain programs. I know there is more to it than just boards but.. it does say something.

Let me say I wouldnt want to be a DO applicant with avg preclinical and clinical grades and a 210 on Step 1 (USMLE) and trying to get into an allo residency. Thats an uphill battle IMO. I have met numerous DOs trying to get into EM and the ones who arent superstars have it at least a little bit rougher. Of course they also have their own DO residencies to fall back on.

Surely if you are DO top 5 in your class and 260 on Step 1 you will have hope in almost any allo field.

All I am saying is if you are comparing apples to apples (MD to DO all else the same)applicant wise the MD has an advantage. I doubt too many people would argue that.. but maybe I am wrong.

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[EctopicFetus]

I double posted.. here is another quote from him..

They also have family medicine DO's historically, but that does not make their EM program DO friendly. Their EM program is NOT DO friendly. Trust me, I know many a DO with stats on the far right end of the bell curve who were never given an interview in EM there when they routinely interview average MD applicants. If you are all that curious, start a new thread and ask people who interviewed at Vandy and Carolinas what their stats were, and ask the DO's who got rejected to disclose their stats. Then the truth will show its face for those that really want to see it. I really don't give a crap though, because a program that rejects me for the skin color of my degree does me a favor. I certainly would not want to practice in an institution so arrogant to believe that their degree was the only degree worth having. These programs only hurt themselves by not taking qualified DO's.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Here from the EM thread entitled Decent EM programs in the South-Osteopath friendly

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=250770&page=1

Give up Vandy. Save yourself the trouble and heartache. It doesn't matter who your connections are, even if its your father who is the PD! I didn't listen to my buddies and mentors and thought a 262 would be good enough to get at least an interview....NOT!! I wish I had my money back!!

Give up Carolinas, UNC, and most west coast programs, UNM, UVA, Hopkins, UArizona, Denver, and most Chicago programs other than Res or Christ (which is arguably the best there anyway!).

This is a quote from CorpsmanUP who is a DO applicant.

 

[community]

In my mind there is NO doubt that DO's have a huge advantage over USFMGs. Many of the IMGs you meet who are impressive have often worked as attendings in their home country so their knowledge is way above where a AMGs is. I know this has been discussed ad nauseum so I wont get too far into it.

All I will say is that IN MY OPINION having an MD (from a US med school) is an advantage over a DO in getting a residency. THATS JUST MY OPINION.

If you look at the EM board there are a couple of guys (or gals) on there who are DOs with 250+ on their boards who didnt get interviewed at certain programs. I know there is more to it than just boards but.. it does say something.

Let me say I wouldnt want to be a DO applicant with avg preclinical and clinical grades and a 210 on Step 1 (USMLE) and trying to get into an allo residency. Thats an uphill battle IMO. I have met numerous DOs trying to get into EM and the ones who arent superstars have it at least a little bit rougher. Of course they also have their own DO residencies to fall back on.

Surely if you are DO top 5 in your class and 260 on Step 1 you will have hope in almost any allo field.

All I am saying is if you are comparing apples to apples (MD to DO all else the same)applicant wise the MD has an advantage. I doubt too many people would argue that.. but maybe I am wrong.

Who exactly are you EctopicFetus? You seem to know a whole lot about everyone and everything; or so you think. In my opinion you are a bit judgemental. Since you don't know me and I don't know you here is a piece of advice. Stop being so judgemental and such a know it all. Your poor attitude will bite you in the ass if you're not careful, and people don't like to be around people like that. Do this at least for the sake of not making the folks in your future residency program miserable. You need to get some more "world and life experience" so that you can have a more open mind.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Where was I being judgemental? I am simply using statistics to bear out my point. On top of that I clearly state this is my opinion, if you dont like it then perhaps your shouldnt be on this site.
Who is being judgemental, you are claiming I will make people in my residency miserable and that I have a "poor attitude".

WTF do you know about me? I think you are the judgemental one not me.

Perhaps you need to wake up and smell the coffee before life smacks you around a little.

 

[community]

Where was I being judgemental? I am simply using statistics to bear out my point. On top of that I clearly state this is my opinion, if you dont like it then perhaps your shouldnt be on this site.
Who is being judgemental, you are claiming I will make people in my residency miserable and that I have a "poor attitude".

WTF do you know about me? I think you are the judgemental one not me.

Perhaps you need to wake up and smell the coffee before life smacks you around a little.

Life has already smacked me around which is why I am sharing my perspective with you. Think about what I am saying objectively, don't take it personal. It pays to be nice to others and to treat your future colleagues with respect. We here on SDN are your future colleagues. It's just some advice before you being residency and work in the real world. Have a good day and life. God bless!

community

 

[psychedoc2b]

I double posted.. here is another quote from him..

I see. I just wonder if his other qualifications met the standards of these EM programs. Just because he has Step 1- 262 does not mean he would be a good EM physician. Again, what is an average MD student anyways? I know some MD students who can't get an interview or be accepted by certain EM programs because they just don't make the cut. I don't think it is all due to board scores. I believe board scores may get one an interview but does not guarantee one a spot in the program. What were his clinical grades and what did his LOR's and dean's letter say? I don't know much about EM but assume the programs who did not give him an interview were more on the competitive side. I would have encouraged him to apply to only programs which were feasible which is the same advice I would give someone MD or DO who goes into any competitive specialty. Board scores may get you an interview but in the end it is the overall content of the whole package that will get you a spot. Some programs grant interviews to med students who went to schools with which they are familiar but it does not guarantee one a spot. May be some residencies are not familiar with the DO schools/curriculum and don't want to take a chance on DO's when they are much more familiar with american medical schools/curriculum. Don't know for sure.

Anyways, I see you are applying to EM in Chicago. I heard Christ is number one in Chicago because of its trauma center. Best wishes.

psychedoc2b

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Here from the EM thread entitled Decent EM programs in the South-Osteopath friendly

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=250770&page=1



This is a quote from CorpsmanUP who is a DO applicant.

Your quote cut of CorpsmanUP's final message, which was that while some programs won't look at you, if your application is solid, you'll get a good residency, at least in EM.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Life has already smacked me around which is why I am sharing my perspective with you. Think about what I am saying objectively, don't take it personal. It pays to be nice to others and to treat your future colleagues with respect. We here on SDN are your future colleagues. It's just some advice before you being residency and work in the real world. Have a good day and life. God bless!

community

Community I have worked with both DOs and Do students. Great people and I wish them well. One of the BEST EM docs I worked with was a DO. I have already worked in the "real world" so I appreciate what you are saying. I have nothing but respect for ANYONE who can make it thru med school. It is a long hard road and as such anyone who can make it is a special person.

Peace out..

 

[EctopicFetus]

Psych.. Thanks for the well wishes. I am living in Chicago now but actually I am planning on going elsewhere so I didnt apply to christ. It is a GREAT program though. Best of luck with psych. I am pretty psyched about the whole match game..

Lastly, you are right if you are a stud DO you will most def match and likely at a great program, the thing is the opportunities are a little more limited thats all I am saying. I dont know corpsmans whole application but he did interview at other real good programs like Indiana and Christ.

If I really had my day every person, DO and MD would match in their chosen field at their #1 spot. Life doesnt work that way. Of course you are right EM isnt for everyone and some MD people just dont match.

Good luck everyone!

 

[EctopicFetus]

Your quote cut of CorpsmanUP's final message, which was that while some programs won't look at you, if your application is solid, you'll get a good residency, at least in EM.

Exlawgrrl, I never said other wise. I just wanted to point out that some programs cut you because of your degree and no other reason. The dude will most def match.. probably at a very very top-notch place.

DOs def get into real good EM programs. I personally have no problem with them at all as 90% of them are real cool nice people, the other 10% are weird... I cant say MD school is any different though.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Seriously let me echo community's sentiments.. Cant we all just get along. I have NO beef at all with DOs..

Again best of luck 4th yrs.. Just a few more interviews to go, THANK GOD!

I hope the trail hasnt stung your pockets too deep!

 

[Poety]

As a colleague of EF's and having communicated with him, I am proof positive that he does NOT take that horrible viewpoint of others about DO's - hes always been very supportive about all applicants and i just want to let you all know that. I feel bad just becaue I think he was trying to do a helpful thing but it was misinterpreted

We all love the DO's, well..... I do and luckily in my time I've seen nothing but acceptance as a colleague in the real world.

 

[Poety]

I have worked with DO's in my rotations and don't see much difference in their abilities compared to a MD. Since I am from the midwest where CCOM rules, I observed that there are DO's in competitive MD specialities such as bariatric surg, cardio, ophtho, EM. IMO, if you go the DO route, just do well in school and on the boards. You should not have major problems going into a competitive specialty. The midwest definitely has its share of DOs who are doing quite well in MD residencies. I have met them at Northwestern, U of C, UIC, Loyola, etc. I don't know what the reasons are behind
knocking down the D.O. degree and stating it is not as good as a MD degree.If you do well in any med school, you should not have much problems in getting the residency you want. I know of other medical students who did not get the residency of their choice because of uncompetitive board scores and clinical grades. MD does not mean it will automatically open doors for you. One still has to put the effort, determination, and have also competitive board scores and clinical grades to get into any competitive residency. I would just go to the school where you are accepted and do the best you possibly can without worrying too much about the supposive differences in having a MD or DO degree.

psychedoc2b

Im an MD graduate and psych doc is absolutely right - my shyte board scores got me dinged from every Ivy or top tier But wait a minute, don't you know? I LEARNED to study this time, I PROMISE?!

EDITED TO ADD: and that was in PSYCH

 

[EctopicFetus]

This hopefully will be a good yr for all. Poety thanks for letting them know I am not the spawn of satan You psych folks will be there for me when I go crazy dealing with people in the ED wont you?