Contact your representatives to cancel student debt

[OptionOffense]

why are we even treating the opioid epidemic?

We're not! Drugs are still pouring into this country and it's business as usuak,

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[hallowmann]

We're not! Drugs are still pouring into this country and it's business as usuak,

Haha, fair enough

 

[doctalaughs]

I understand some people make mistakes but there has to be SOME responsibility for loans taken.

Instead of just “cancelling” debt - How about 2-4 years of military or public service going forward to get forgiveness?

And going forward universities have to have some skin in the game. If they churn out grads with useless degrees that can’t get employment they should have to pay 50% of the loans. That would change tuition rates and admissions rapidly.

 

[Mass Effect]

Lol you’re second to last paragraph is one of the stupidest things I’ve read in some time. And I read lots of stupid stuff

Ok, genius, want to put your thinking cap on and expand on that? Or are you satisfied giving a stupid rebuttal to "one of the stupidest things I've read in some time"?

 

[yeasports]

I understand some people make mistakes but there has to be SOME responsibility for loans taken.

Instead of just “cancelling” debt - How about 2-4 years of military or public service going forward to get forgiveness?

And going forward universities have to have some skin in the game. If they churn out grads with useless degrees that can’t get employment they should have to pay 50% of the loans. That would change tuition rates and admissions rapidly.

I don't think I can agree with this more; well said.

 

[akwho]

And going forward universities have to have some skin in the game. If they churn out grads with useless degrees that can’t get employment they should have to pay 50% of the loans. That would change tuition rates and admissions rapidly.

I've said this for years! The universities themselves should be signed onto the loan notes as co-signers they need skin in the game and not just a free fountain of government money.

 

[OptionOffense]

I understand some people make mistakes but there has to be SOME responsibility for loans taken.

Instead of just “cancelling” debt - How about 2-4 years of military or public service going forward to get forgiveness?

And going forward universities have to have some skin in the game. If they churn out grads with useless degrees that can’t get employment they should have to pay 50% of the loans. That would change tuition rates and admissions rapidly.T

The economy is in a funk right now. One of the ways they think will jump-start it is by cancelling student loans. IF that happens, isn't it a plus for everybody irregardless of what anyone thinks of the optics of it. Since when do we care about optics? If we cared about optics, every nurse in community college nursing wouldn't be applying for online NP schools with hopes of being independentt from those stinky Medical Doctors who actually studied medicine so they can make independent medical decisions. I can go on and on about optics.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

The economy is in a funk right now. One of the ways they think will jump-start it is by cancelling student loans. IF that happens, isn't it a plus for everybody irregardless of what anyone thinks of the optics of it.

Can you clarify how the economy is in a “funk” and how giving ~15% of people free money will fix it? Payments have been optional with 0 interest for the past two years... I’m not sure we could even say it would increase people’s cashflow at this point.

 

[OptionOffense]

Can you clarify how the economy is in a “funk” and how giving ~15% of people free money will fix it? Payments have been optional with 0 interest for the past two years... I’m not sure we could even say it would increase people’s cashflow at this point.

When people are strapped with a long-term loan they buy less, purchase fewer cars, dont buy homes, eat out less, go longer w/o upgrading iphones, tip less, dont go on vacation, don't rent cars, and so on and so forth. IF you can get people to do the aforementioned economy booms. We are a consumer driven economy! I hope that helps.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

When people are strapped with a long-term loan they buy less, purchase fewer cars, dont buy homes, eat out less, go longer w/o upgrading iphones, tip less, dont go on vacation, don't rent cars, and so on and so forth. IF you can get people to do the aforementioned economy booms. We are a consumer driven economy! I hope that helps.

But these people have not been strapped since March 2020.

I’m also not sure what to say if your idea of the current car or housing market is “we need to do something to fix low demand.”

 

[Spikebd]

But these people have not been strapped since March 2020.

I’m also not sure what to say if your idea of the current car or housing market is “we need to do something to fix low demand.”

Yea, so imagine what will happen when it finally ends and loans have to be repaid.

We’re about to live through wild times, that’s for sure.

 

[OptionOffense]

But these people have not been strapped since March 2020.

I’m also not sure what to say if your idea of the current car or housing market is “we need to do something to fix low demand.”

We have been printing money like crazy in the past 2 years. 40 percent of ALL the money that has ever been printed, has been printed in the last 24 months. That has sustained the economy.

 

[Spikebd]

We have been printing money like crazy in the past 2 years. 40 percent of ALL the money that has ever been printed, has been printed in the last 24 months. That has sustained the economy.

I thinks it’s closer to 80%

 

[hallowmann]

I understand some people make mistakes but there has to be SOME responsibility for loans taken.

Instead of just “cancelling” debt - How about 2-4 years of military or public service going forward to get forgiveness?

And going forward universities have to have some skin in the game. If they churn out grads with useless degrees that can’t get employment they should have to pay 50% of the loans. That would change tuition rates and admissions rapidly.

I think this is a very reasonable policy. It's basically what the government does (usually when dems are in office) with small grants and short term programs. The main problem with all of them is that they are flawed in their scope, basically being too small to touch the problem for the vast majority, and typically are done with some type of ulterior motive to benefit a specific industry or corporation rather than the country or public as a whole. They also rarely hold the education industry responsible, which I would agree is an important component.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

We have been printing money like crazy in the past 2 years. 40 percent of ALL the money that has ever been printed, has been printed in the last 24 months. That has sustained the economy.

That's part of what is causing the significant inflation that is going on right now... Has it really sustained the economy that well if we're going into record inflation?

 

[Mass Effect]

But these people have not been strapped since March 2020.

I’m also not sure what to say if your idea of the current car or housing market is “we need to do something to fix low demand.”

Haven't been strapped since March 2020? You understand the reason for the loan pause was because so many lost jobs during the pandemic? Many had insane hospital bills to pay. Many lost loved ones and had to take time off work for whatever reason. People are now getting back on their feet, but to suggest they haven't been strapped since March 2020 is BS.

 

[wholeheartedly]

That's part of what is causing the significant inflation that is going on right now... Has it really sustained the economy that well if we're going into record inflation?

There is also a significant amount of price gouging going on with companies having record profits, so I’m not sure I buy it.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

There is also a significant amount of price gouging going on with companies having record profits, so I’m not sure I buy it.

There is some of that for sure... but there's also increased cost of goods secondary to shut downs and other covid related excuses. Governmental policies that are currently in place aren't doing much to help things even if sometimes they look like good ideas superficially.

 

[Mass Effect]

There is some of that for sure... but there's also increased cost of goods secondary to shut downs and other covid related excuses. Governmental policies that are currently in place aren't doing much to help things even if sometimes they look like good ideas superficially.

You think it's bad now, just wait til these low-income folks start paying back 6 figure loans again in May.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

You think it's bad now, just wait til these low-income folks start paying back 6 figure loans again in May.

Well, I expect they will also have a version of IBR and will have low payment requirements as well...

 

[Mass Effect]

Well, I expect they will also have a version of IBR and will have low payment requirements as well...

Didn't seem to be helping as much as you'd think prior.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Didn't seem to be helping as much as you'd think prior.

Ok, so let's just give free money to everyone!

That's the responsible thing to do.

 

[Mass Effect]

Ok, so let's just give free money to everyone!

That's the responsible thing to do.

Do you think a strawman ever leads to real discussion?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Do you think a strawman ever leads to real discussion?

Do you think forgiving student loans that people chose to take out, knowing they had to repay them is the smart thing to do? Why should taxpayers be on the hook because someone ended up taking a degree in a dead end and can't find a job in their field afterwards?

You seem interested in just giving out free money, so why do you think that I should pay for someone else's decision?

 

[Mass Effect]

Do you think forgiving student loans that people chose to take out, knowing they had to repay them is the smart thing to do?

Yes and I explained why in this very thread.

Why should taxpayers be on the hook because someone ended up taking a degree in a dead end and can't find a job in their field afterwards?

Did you read my previous replies? Because I feel like I've answered this.

You seem interested in just giving out free money, so why do you think that I should pay for someone else's decision?

Did you read my previous replies? Because I feel like I've already answered this.

 

[futuredo32]

You will make over 300k a year (or are already?). You can pay that off in 5-10 years. My tiny violin bleeds sweet notes of melancholy for your sorrow. You will still retire with 5-10 million in the bank including the time required to pay down your student loans.

And if you're really that concerned, go take extra ER shifts and pay it off in two years. The hIgHeR pAyInG sPeCiAlTiEs are still working 60-100 hours a week, it didn't magically turn into 40 hours after residency for us. If you work 100 hours a week as a psychiatrist you will make over 500k too. Except not at the opportunity cost of the extra 3-5 years it took us rich folk in the high paying specialties. So you'll actually make WAY more than us.

Like. Am I missing something here? Loan foregiveness is not designed to allowed rich entitled doctors to generate even MORE wealth. It is designed to allow minorities and people at the mercy of predatory schools and people in poverty to have a chance. The second you became a RESIDENT and made 65k a year you stopped being one of those people, much less an ATTENDING

I made 40 k as a resident. I don't make 300 k now. I am not rich nor entitled. So much judgement. Medicine was a second career for me. I wont ever have 5-10 million. I am not alone.

 

[Browns99]

Do you think forgiving student loans that people chose to take out, knowing they had to repay them is the smart thing to do? Why should taxpayers be on the hook because someone ended up taking a degree in a dead end and can't find a job in their field afterwards?

You seem interested in just giving out free money, so why do you think that I should pay for someone else's decision?

I agree 100%.....

 

[TJRock]

I made 40 k as a resident. I don't make 300 k now. I am not rich nor entitled. So much judgement. Medicine was a second career for me. I wont ever have 5-10 million. I am not alone.

I'm nearing the end of my career (non-medical) and I make ~$80K/yr. Together with my wife, we make about ~$140K/yr. We have raised 2 sons and now have 4 grandsons. I'm hoping to be able to retire in about 5 years, but it will be on a fairly limited income. Luckily, we own our house outright, so we can stay here if need be and not have to worry about a house payment in the future, assuming that our mobility allows us to continue using our stairs. I consider our current financial position to be pretty good after working for ~38 years.

So my question is why should I be paying off your loans that you took out willingly and with the promise to pay back? Why are you (and everyone else who voluntarily took out loans) entitled to any of the money that we have worked hard for over all these years?

 

[LucidSplash]

So I have read some but not all of this thread, admittedly. But I found shockingly little addressing the fact that there is already PSLF as an avenue for loan forgiveness. This doesn’t just work for docs, it works for nurses, teachers, and other public sector workers. With the recent reforms, more and more people are qualifying. I myself had my balance forgiven after 10 years of payments (income-based repayments for essentially the entire time at that, since I did 9 years of postgrad training). Given that almost all training programs are at non-profit or not-for-profit institutions (notable exceptions such as Drexel), I’d love to hear more about why those advocating for wholesale loan forgiveness aren’t addressing the elephant in the room that such an option already exists with what many would consider an appropriate trade off of public service.

 

[Browns99]

So I have read some but not all of this thread, admittedly. But I found shockingly little addressing the fact that there is already PSLF as an avenue for loan forgiveness. This doesn’t just work for docs, it works for nurses, teachers, and other public sector workers. With the recent reforms, more and more people are qualifying. I myself had my balance forgiven after 10 years of payments (income-based repayments for essentially the entire time at that, since I did 9 years of postgrad training). Given that almost all training programs are at non-profit or not-for-profit institutions (notable exceptions such as Drexel), I’d love to hear more about why those advocating for wholesale loan forgiveness aren’t addressing the elephant in the room that such an option already exists with what many would consider an appropriate trade off of public service.

I totally agree, but there is a small segment that believes the government owes them something and that it has an endless supply of money...how's that been working out for the current administration.

People who borrowed money knew the risk, what the end cost would be, what their resident salary and living expenses would be and chose to move forward, so no, there should be no tax-payer subsidy at this time. This is not UG any longer. BTW, I applaud those less fortunate who found a way to get themselves through medical school who did not have a lot of help.

Here is a prior comment on this thread..... "Tl;dr: student debt should be forgiven for low income people at least, student loan industry needs a significant revamp and people who already paid off their loans, tough."

First off, look at the poster's ignorant comment about those that already paid it off. Please describe what your definition of "low income" is? Last time I checked, the majority of people entering into residency are basically poor. Most parents have stopped providing once their child has become a resident doctor, and if they have loans, they are no different than someone who did not have parents helping, other than MAYBE having less in loans.

 

[greatnt249]

If I had to refocus the lens of discussion here, there seems to be a moral outrage toward student loan forgiveness that wasn't nearly as pervasive when the government decided to hand out massive bailouts to corporations thought to be "too big to fail" in the not too distant past...why is that?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

If I had to refocus the lens of discussion here, there seems to be a moral outrage toward student loan forgiveness that wasn't nearly as pervasive when the government decided to hand out massive bailouts to corporations thought to be "too big to fail" in the not too distant past...why is that?

I'd wager most of the people in the former group here were against that.

 

[greatnt249]

I'd wager most of the people in the former group here were against that.

Okay, let me rephrase...if the government was willing to bail out the very institutions supplying borderline predatory loans to students, why is it all of a sudden a personal failing on the borrowers' part to take advantage of programs put into place to ease debt burden?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Okay, let me rephrase...if the government was willing to bail out the very institutions supplying borderline predatory loans to students, why is it all of a sudden a personal failing on the borrowers' part to take advantage of programs put into place to ease debt burden?

I'm not seeing anyone that is against any of the repayment plans that are available. People are against just forgiving debt outright for these loans. PSFL requires so many years of payments while working at an eligible job. It's not just a complete handout.

 

[LucidSplash]

If I had to refocus the lens of discussion here, there seems to be a moral outrage toward student loan forgiveness that wasn't nearly as pervasive when the government decided to hand out massive bailouts to corporations thought to be "too big to fail" in the not too distant past...why is that?

I don’t think you can prove this statement given the context of this thread. Therefore, strawman argument. You have no idea how the people commenting here felt about the bank bailouts. Your supposition is likely based on your perception of what portions of the population support or do not support each measure. The bank bailout happened, it is a fait acompli. I would suspect many people here were NOT supportive of it. But these are two different conversations at this point.

Again, I ask why there is so little discussion of the loan forgiveness measures already in place?

And before anyone suggests that I don’t understand the plight of people who grew up without financial advantages… For the record, I grew up below the poverty line. I moved schools 10 times before graduating from high school due to social issues my mother and stepfather had. My father had the means but did not help me pay for college or med school for his own reasons. I went to a private undergrad but only because my financial aid package had a fairly large need based scholarship that made the cost of attendance with loans the exact same for the small private undergrad as at my large state school. I worked 3 part time jobs for most of college, while also doing all the premed volunteering and shadowing stuff, plus lettering in varsity sport 2x, plus a club sport, and had summer jobs to pay for books. Then I worked a “real job” for 3 years here my starting pay was $38k a year and felt like I was ****ing rich compared to how I grew up , just because I could afford a ****ty apartment and pay my bills on time. During med school, I had an aunt that would send me $250 twice a year or so which felt like a million dollars sometimes. I even went back to working retail during my lighter months of 4th year to pay for my move across several states for college. I sold most of my furniture to afford the move anyway and arrived with only a mattress and a free TV one of my classmates was getting rid of, and some hand me down lamps in terms of furniture. I sat on folding chairs from CVS for the first couple months before I could buy a couch off Craigslist and ate ramen the first month until I got a paycheck (we were paid monthly). I saved for a year in residency before I could buy a cheap bedroom set for $700 and kept my clothes in Tupperware containers and suitcases until I had a dresser. It all sucked. A lot. And despite living as cheaply as possible, I still finished training with around $20k in credit card debt, because **** happens when you have no safety net and are the most well off person for parts of your family even though you are on a residents salary.

And I paid off the credit card debt and the used car I bought when I started working as an attending (crashed my 12-year-old car a couple weeks before finishing fellowship 🙄). All within the first 14 months of making an attending salary. I took off 5 weeks between finishing fellowship and starting work, only because they were so against me only taking 2, and I figured that was the absolute most I could survive with the tiny amount in savings and credit cards until I got a paycheck.

And yet. I never expected anyone to forgive my loans outside of an established program. If PSLF wasn’t an option, I would not be someone demanding the government forgive my loans just because I had them.

I want reform at the point that forces people to take out so much in the first place for professional school. I want reform that makes it easier for people who come from unstable low income backgrounds to go to professional school.

But I think I should have to give something for loan forgiveness, fair trade, just like anyone who goes to work in an underserved area or joins the military. I have never once in my life expected something for nothing. The government subsidizes resident salaries, so I think it is reasonable for me to make less than an attending as a resident if my years of work results in loan forgiveness. I made more in a year as a resident than half of my family did in 5 years. I also paid nearly $100k in taxes this year, so I feel that PSLF is a reasonable fair trade and do not lose sleep over my loan forgiveness for one minute. The government is going to make a ton of money off me in the coming years in terms of taxes, so I think they got their money’s worth when it comes to my loans. But if PSLF wasn’t an option, I would have advocated for an option like PSLF, not wholesale loan forgiveness without anything in trade. Because I made a commitment and it was my responsibility.

So again. I would like to hear more about why most of this thread is carrying on as if there isn’t already an option for loan forgiveness out there?

 

[greatnt249]

I'm not seeing anyone that is against any of the repayment plans that are available. People are against just forgiving debt outright for these loans. PSFL requires so many years of payments while working at an eligible job. It's not just a complete handout.

Not only that, has there been much evidence that those enrolled is PSFL have actually had loans forgiven? Lately I've been reading that very few of those who actually qualified wound up succeeding.

 

[greatnt249]

I don’t think you can prove this statement given the context of this thread. Therefore, strawman argument. You have no idea how the people commenting here felt about the bank bailouts. Your supposition is likely based on your perception of what portions of the population support or do not support each measure. The bank bailout happened, it is a fait acompli. I would suspect many people here were NOT supportive of it. But these are two different conversations at this point.

Again, I ask why there is so little discussion of the loan forgiveness measures already in place?

And before anyone suggests that I don’t understand the plight of people who grew up without financial advantages… For the record, I grew up below the poverty line. I moved schools 10 times before graduating from high school due to my social issues my mother and stepfather had. My father had the means but did help me pay for college or med school for his own reasons. I went to a private undergrad but only because my financial aid package had a fairly large need based scholarship that made the cost of attendance with loans the exact same for the small private undergrad as at my large state school. I worked 3 part time jobs for most of college, while also doing all the premed volunteering and shadowing stuff, plus lettering in varsity sport 2x, plus a club sport, and had summer jobs to pay for books. Then I worked a “real job” for 3 years here my starting pay was $38k a year and felt like I was ****ing rich compared to how I grew up , just because I could afford a ****ty apartment and pay my bills on time. During med school, I had an aunt that would send me $250 twice a year or so which felt like a million dollars sometimes. I even went back to working retail during my lighter months of 4th year to pay for my move across several states for college. I sold most of my furniture to afford the move anyway and arrived with only a mattress and a free TV one of my classmates was getting rid of, and some handle down lamps in terms of furniture. I sat on folding chairs from CVS for the first couple months before I could buy a couch off Craigslist and ate ramen the first month until I got a paycheck (we were paid monthly). I save for a year in residency before I could buy a cheap bedroom set for $700 and kept my clothes in Tupperware containers and suitcases until I had a dresser. It all sucked. A lot. And despite living as cheaply as possible, I still finished training with around $20k in credit card debt, because **** happens when you have no safety net and are the most well off person for parts of your family even though you are on a residents salary.

And I paid off the credit card debt and the used car I bought when I started working as an attending (crashed my 12-year-old car a couple weeks before finishing fellowship 🙄). All within the first 14 months of making an attending salary. I took off 5 weeks between finishing fellowship and starting work, only because they were so against me only taking 2, and I figured that was the absolute most I could survive with the tiny amount in savings and credit cards until I got a paycheck.

And yet. I never expected anyone to forgive my loans outside of an established program. If PSLF wasn’t an option, I would not be someone demanding the government forgive my loans just because I had them.

I want reform at the point that forces people to take out so much in the first place for professional school. I want reform that makes it easier for people who come from unstable low income backgrounds to go to professional school.

But I think I should have to give something for loan forgiveness, fair trade, just like anyone who goes to work in an underserved area or joins the military. I have never once in my life expected something for nothing. The government subsidizes resident salaries, so I think it is reasonable for me to make less than an attending as a resident if my years of work results in loan forgiveness. I made more as a in a year as a resident than half of my family did in 5 years. I also paid nearly $100k in taxes this year, so I feel that PSLF is a reasonable fair trade and do not lose sleep over my loan forgiveness for one minute. The government is going to make a ton of money off me in the coming years in terms of taxes, so I think they got their money’s worth when it comes to my loans. But if PSLF wasn’t an option, I would have advocated for an option like PSLF, not wholesale loan forgiveness without anything in trade. Because I made a commitment and it was my responsibility.

So again. I would like to hear more about why most of this thread is carrying on as if there isn’t already an option for loan forgiveness out there?

Was not exactly the response I expected to trigger. What I was more or less getting at is, if corporations can't have their feet held to the fire for fiscal responsibility, why are we surprised that a handout mentality exists?

For the record, I'm not advocating for carte blanche loan forgiveness. However, I do think the anger at such a proposition is misdirected and somewhat scapegoating.

 

[LucidSplash]

Was not exactly the response I expected to trigger. What I was more or less getting at is, if corporations can't have their feet held to the fire for fiscal responsibility, why are we surprised that a handout mentality exists?

For the record, I'm not advocating for carte blanche loan forgiveness. However, I do think the anger at such a proposition is misdirected and somewhat scapegoating.

Again, conflating two different issues and it has no place in this discussion. I think very few people here are displaying “anger” at the concept of whole sale loan forgiveness and also supported corporate bailouts. I want to know what is wrong with trading your labor in the public sector for loan forgiveness and why no one is talking about it. Reform is needed, but so far there is a very workable solution for loan forgiveness already available. Advocacy needs to be directed elsewhere to the start of the chain of overwhelming debt accumulation or we solve nothing. But based on many of the responses here, it seems like some people want a lot for nothing in return. It isn’t scapegoating to point out a flawed perspective, especially when PSLF is the elephant in the room. It is disingenuous to be angry about corporate bailouts and yet want one for yourself.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

Was not exactly the response I expected to trigger. What I was more or less getting at is, if corporations can't have their feet held to the fire for fiscal responsibility, why are we surprised that a handout mentality exists?

For the record, I'm not advocating for carte blanche loan forgiveness. However, I do think the anger at such a proposition is misdirected and somewhat scapegoating.

If you can point me to the person I can vote for to hold corporations' feet to the fire please do I would love to help elect them.

 

[greatnt249]

If you can point me to the person I can vote for to hold corporations' feet to the fire please do I would love to help elect them.

You and me both.

 

[mvenus929]

Not only that, has there been much evidence that those enrolled is PSFL have actually had loans forgiven? Lately I've been reading that very few of those who actually qualified wound up succeeding.

Mine is more anecdotal, but I've seen a ton of physicians and know of at least one in my group who has had loans forgiven with the waiver program. There's a whole group on Facebook for physicians seeking PSLF and it seems that almost daily someone is posting about their loans getting forgiven. So, it's definitely happening.

The original reports that came out saying only like 1% of people were getting forgiven were due to issues with people not being eligible due to 1) not being in an eligible repayment plan (not income driven), 2) people not working for an eligible employer (a non-profit), 3) people not having eligible loans (not Direct Federal loans), or 4) not having made 120 payments towards their loans. Given the issues people had, the government made a waiver to allow people who fell into categories 1 and 3 to have a limited time to get forgiveness and a bunch have as a result.

 

[deleted1100659]

I am against loan forgiveness, and have over 300k in debt. Why? I do believe that because I borrowed it, I have an obligation to pay it back. No one forced me.

HOWEVER, we NEED loan reform. This is what I want:

1. Maintain the zero percent interest rate as it currently is for a few years at least to give people a fair chance to pay their loans back
2. Set caps on what the interest rates are for student loans (honestly I think anything more than 2-3% interest rates are ridiculous).
3. Start enforcing caps on tuition as well (because this is just absurd and is what is destroying people the most).
4. Hold schools with low graduation rates/job placement rates accountable, make them publish accurate and true data, sanction them for the predatory way they prey on desperate people (which is happening)
5. Possibly enact small scale forgiveness (maybe 10-20k) as a way to make up for the loan shark interest rates the government is currently charging.

The idea of the government making significant profit of someone advancing their own education just seems a bit convoluted to me, especially when a better educated population only benefits them. The interest rates are just ridiculous and need an immediate fix.

 

[LucidSplash]

Mine is more anecdotal, but I've seen a ton of physicians and know of at least one in my group who has had loans forgiven with the waiver program. There's a whole group on Facebook for physicians seeking PSLF and it seems that almost daily someone is posting about their loans getting forgiven. So, it's definitely happening.

The original reports that came out saying only like 1% of people were getting forgiven were due to issues with people not being eligible due to 1) not being in an eligible repayment plan (not income driven), 2) people not working for an eligible employer (a non-profit), 3) people not having eligible loans (not Direct Federal loans), or 4) not having made 120 payments towards their loans. Given the issues people had, the government made a waiver to allow people who fell into categories 1 and 3 to have a limited time to get forgiveness and a bunch have as a result.

Yes things have changed a lot in the past year and some changes were made to the program that made it much easier to qualify. Additionally, right now if you enroll by October 2022, you get credit for loan payments made before you were enrolled, as long as you were working for an eligible employer. You can Google all this easily especially the steep upward curve in people qualifying.

If one does PSLF, I strongly recommend getting your form signed yearly by your employer. Don’t wait until the end of 10 years to try to get approval.

 

[Mass Effect]

I'm nearing the end of my career (non-medical) and I make ~$80K/yr. Together with my wife, we make about ~$140K/yr. We have raised 2 sons and now have 4 grandsons. I'm hoping to be able to retire in about 5 years, but it will be on a fairly limited income. Luckily, we own our house outright, so we can stay here if need be and not have to worry about a house payment in the future, assuming that our mobility allows us to continue using our stairs. I consider our current financial position to be pretty good after working for ~38 years.

So my question is why should I be paying off your loans that you took out willingly and with the promise to pay back? Why are you (and everyone else who voluntarily took out loans) entitled to any of the money that we have worked hard for over all these years?

This argument about why you should pay to pay off others loans is misleading. You are not paying to pay off their loans. Your taxes go to the "greater good" as a society, whether that's public schools (or even school vouchers for private education), local police and fire dept (even if you never have a need to use them), welfare and food stamp recipients (even if you've never used it), homeless shelters (even if you've never needed one) the salary of city, state and national officials, building roads and bridges (even the ones in states you'll never visit), and yes even bailing out corporations when they get themselves into trouble. Because somewhere some decision was made that all our lives are better if all our children are all educated, if our poor are fed, our homeless are sheltered and our bridges don't fall into the ocean.

I agree with your point when it comes to doctors. I don't agree with your point when it comes to the guy working at Home Depot and making 30K a year.

 

[Mass Effect]

So I have read some but not all of this thread, admittedly. But I found shockingly little addressing the fact that there is already PSLF as an avenue for loan forgiveness. This doesn’t just work for docs, it works for nurses, teachers, and other public sector workers. With the recent reforms, more and more people are qualifying. I myself had my balance forgiven after 10 years of payments (income-based repayments for essentially the entire time at that, since I did 9 years of postgrad training). Given that almost all training programs are at non-profit or not-for-profit institutions (notable exceptions such as Drexel), I’d love to hear more about why those advocating for wholesale loan forgiveness aren’t addressing the elephant in the room that such an option already exists with what many would consider an appropriate trade off of public service.

This is the case for doctors, but when people broadly oppose loan forgiveness, they're not taking into account the majority of borrowers are not doctors or nurses. There are a lot of people saddled with loans in the 6 digits working retail or waiting tables or taking jobs where they can get them. Have a friend with a degree in advertising working in publishing and making about 60K/yr in NYC. Can't really do that at a non-profit.

 

[Mass Effect]

Here is a prior comment on this thread..... "Tl;dr: student debt should be forgiven for low income people at least, student loan industry needs a significant revamp and people who already paid off their loans, tough."

First off, look at the poster's ignorant comment about those that already paid it off. Please describe what your definition of "low income" is? Last time I checked, the majority of people entering into residency are basically poor. Most parents have stopped providing once their child has become a resident doctor, and if they have loans, they are no different than someone who did not have parents helping, other than MAYBE having less in loans.

My comment was not ignorant. The whole "but it's not fair" argument reeks of a mentality that everyone gets what everyone else gets which ironically I would bet you're against. There is nothing ignorant about saying that using that argument could very well be a deterrent for ANY change to anything, ever. Even capping student loan amounts could be met with the argument "but you didn't cap my amount 10 years ago!" nonsense. You can't use such silly arguments when you're trying to improve a system. You recognize the mistake, fix it and move on with changes. You don't sit there and say "but if we do this, it won't be fair to everyone before". That's exactly how things like student loans stay stagnant, despite our so-called "leaders" realizing for years there's a problem.

And for that matter, why aren't you working 120 hours a week at the hospital? The fact that your hours are capped at 80 isn't really fair to those who came before Libby Zion. I mean, what about them??? They had to do it.

Low income obviously is not doctors. I didn't realize I was drafting a bill in my post or else I would have been more specific so that you can attack it with specific numbers. I'm talking about the majority of borrowers who are not physicians and many of whom have very modest incomes with undergrad loans in the 6 digits.

 

[Mass Effect]

But based on many of the responses here, it seems like some people want a lot for nothing in return.

That's not really fair. I think most of us here are advocating for loan forgiveness for a segment of the population with something in return as discussed on page 1 AND for student loan reform. I think the blanket "no forgiveness for anyone" posters are being short-sighted frankly. And not everyone's job or career is compatible with a non-profit that meets PSLF's criteria. This is especially true for those who graduated with useless degrees and are working wherever they get hired. Some may be working at the local library or city hall or school, but others are doing telemarketing or working at an insurance company or at Amazon or driving an Uber. That's why I said low income. These folks are shut out of PSLF because they're not working at non-profits and some of them aren't able to get a non-profit job. I wouldn't object to a version of PSLF that allows them to give 2 years of service like Americorps in order to get forgiveness.

On that note, I'll also point out that it's a very, very recent change that so many people applying to PSLF are having their loans forgiven which is one reason so many people chose not to enter PSLF in the first place. It took PSLF years to get its act together and it's a fairly new "successful" avenue for forgiveness.

 

[Browns99]

My comment was not ignorant. The whole "but it's not fair" argument reeks of a mentality that everyone gets what everyone else gets which ironically I would bet you're against. There is nothing ignorant about saying that using that argument could very well be a deterrent for ANY change to anything, ever. Even capping student loan amounts could be met with the argument "but you didn't cap my amount 10 years ago!" nonsense. You can't use such silly arguments when you're trying to improve a system. You recognize the mistake, fix it and move on with changes. You don't sit there and say "but if we do this, it won't be fair to everyone before". That's exactly how things like student loans stay stagnant, despite our so-called "leaders" realizing for years there's a problem.

And for that matter, why aren't you working 120 hours a week at the hospital? The fact that your hours are capped at 80 isn't really fair to those who came before Libby Zion. I mean, what about them??? They had to do it.

Low income obviously is not doctors. I didn't realize I was drafting a bill in my post or else I would have been more specific so that you can attack it with specific numbers. I'm talking about the majority of borrowers who are not physicians and many of whom have very modest incomes with undergrad loans in the 6 digits.

Like I said, ignorant comment.....Just like all of your other comments when you attack those that don't agree with you. There are some comments by you that actually demeans the poster, (yes, you have called people derogatory names) as opposed to responding to the subject at hand. You gave a dislike to my post, why is that, I didn't even mention you by your screen name as not to embarrass you. If you disagreed, you could have simply responded, but you appear to be someone who gets angry and childish behind a keyboard when people disagree with you... kind of says a lot about you.

 

[smq123]

Please keep comments focused on the discussion and not on individual posters. Please keep it civil. Thanks!

 

[ThoracicGuy]

That's not really fair. I think most of us here are advocating for loan forgiveness for a segment of the population with something in return as discussed on page 1 AND for student loan reform. I think the blanket "no forgiveness for anyone" posters are being short-sighted frankly. And not everyone's job or career is compatible with a non-profit that meets PSLF's criteria. This is especially true for those who graduated with useless degrees and are working wherever they get hired. Some may be working at the local library or city hall or school, but others are doing telemarketing or working at an insurance company or at Amazon or driving an Uber. That's why I said low income. These folks are shut out of PSLF because they're not working at non-profits and some of them aren't able to get a non-profit job. I wouldn't object to a version of PSLF that allows them to give 2 years of service like Americorps in order to get forgiveness.

On that note, I'll also point out that it's a very, very recent change that so many people applying to PSLF are having their loans forgiven which is one reason so many people chose not to enter PSLF in the first place. It took PSLF years to get its act together and it's a fairly new "successful" avenue for forgiveness.

So those people who chose worthless degrees. Why should we bail people out of mistakes of their own making?