Maternity leave in fellowship

[arachnoidmater]

Hi all! Have a question regarding fellowship but since there is not a general page for fellows, I am posting here. I had my first baby my first year of fellowship. I used all of my vacation time, and another 4 weeks no pay which I have to make up at the end of my fellowship. I am now pregnant again, and still bitter about my short, unpaid maternity leave. So this time I will be taking 16 weeks afforded to me by short term disability and FMLA. I cannot stress enough that my program is incredibly malignant and I truly do not care what their opinion on this is. (I also am in a fellowship where there are not always fellows on service so this will not affect me co-fellows). My question is how does this work with training? Will I have to make up another 4 months in addition to my 1 month from my first baby? I’m just wondering logistically how long they can keep me. Would appreciate any insight! Thanks.

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[rokshana]

Hi all! Have a question regarding fellowship but since there is not a general page for fellows, I am posting here. I had my first baby my first year of fellowship. I used all of my vacation time, and another 4 weeks no pay which I have to make up at the end of my fellowship. I am now pregnant again, and still bitter about my short, unpaid maternity leave. So this time I will be taking 16 weeks afforded to me by short term disability and FMLA. I cannot stress enough that my program is incredibly malignant and I truly do not care what their opinion on this is. (I also am in a fellowship where there are not always fellows on service so this will not affect me co-fellows). My question is how does this work with training? Will I have to make up another 4 months in addition to my 1 month from my first baby? I’m just wondering logistically how long they can keep me. Would appreciate any insight! Thanks.

You should ask your GME for what they do, but ACGME is pretty strict about how many weeks of training must be done to meet the requirements for graduation...less than 4 weeks, it is at the discretion of the program and GME, otherwise the time must be made up if >4 weeks to meet the requirements for graduation and board eligibility. Your program is not being malignant by requiring you to meet ACGME requirements for training.

You’re right, no one should tell you when you can be pregnant, but you also have to be willing to accept the consequences that can come with it.

Your program doesn’t have to give paid maternity leave, though they do have to give you the 12 weeks of leave mandated by fmla without it threatening your ability to come back...unfortunately fmla does not mandate that it be paid.

 

[GoSpursGo]

In short, yes you'll probably need to make up another 4 months. You need to have X number of weeks of training per the ACGME, and if your training is interrupted you generally have to complete it on the back end.

Not saying it's right, but as stated above, that FMLA is likely to be unpaid =/ Ultimately your program and their GME office has a lot of discretion in this, so while we can all guess what your program will make you do, in reality you just need to have this uncomfortable conversation with them directly.

 

[arachnoidmater]

You should ask your GME for what they do, but ACGME is pretty strict about how many weeks of training must be done to meet the requirements for graduation...less than 4 weeks, it is at the discretion of the program and GME, otherwise the time must be made up if >4 weeks to meet the requirements for graduation and board eligibility. Your program is not being malignant by requiring you to meet ACGME requirements for training.

You’re right, no one should tell you when you can be pregnant, but you also have to be willing to accept the consequences that can come with it.

Your program doesn’t have to give paid maternity leave, though they do have to give you the 12 weeks of leave mandated by fmla without it threatening your ability to come back...unfortunately fmla does not mandate that it be paid.

Thanks for the info. To clarify my program isn’t malignant because they won’t give me leave. They are malignant because they are malignant.

 

[arachnoidmater]

In short, yes you'll probably need to make up another 4 months. You need to have X number of weeks of training per the ACGME, and if your training is interrupted you generally have to complete it on the back end.

Not saying it's right, but as stated above, that FMLA is likely to be unpaid =/ Ultimately your program and their GME office has a lot of discretion in this, so while we can all guess what your program will make you do, in reality you just need to have this uncomfortable conversation with them directly.

Thank you! In my state and with my disability package I am eligible for 12 weeks 60% pay.

 

[gutonc]

Just to be clear, your FMLA and your training requirements are completely different. The program has to do what the state says they have to do for FMLA. The program has to do what your fellowship RRC says they have to do for you to graduate. It is likely that these will not line up neatly like you want them to.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It's actually not an ACGME issue, but instead an ABMS issue. Your post history suggests that this is a pediatrics fellowship. In that case, the total amount of training you need to be Board Eligible is defined by the American Board of Pediatrics. I don't know what their rules / policies are about this.

As an example, the ABIM has the requirement that all graduates complete 36 months of training. However, everyone can miss "1 month" = 5 weeks of any training year. This includes vacation and sick time. We give residents 3 weeks of vacation and 1 week of sick / personal time, so using all of your sick time you could miss 3 weeks and still graduate on time. But then, the ABIM has a "shortening of training" policy that allows a PD to petition the board to shorten anyone's training by 1 month to 35 months. Since they define a month as 5 weeks, we can graduate anyone who has missed less than 8 weeks of training. However, this whole process is completely up to the PD -- residents can't petition the board, only the PD. So if a PD were to decide that all residents needed to make up all missed time, that's the way it would be.

So, perhaps the ABP allows some leeway. My local peds program actually gives new parents training credits for taking care of their own baby, clearly not applicable to a fellowship. in the end, it's up to your PD and there really isn't anything you can do about it.

 

[arachnoidmater]

Just to be clear, your FMLA and your training requirements are completely different. The program has to do what the state says they have to do for FMLA. The program has to do what your fellowship RRC says they have to do for you to graduate. It is likely that these will not line up neatly like you want them to.

Of course. That’s why I am posting. I know what I am offered with FMLA, I am unclear about the limits of fellowship.

 

[arachnoidmater]

It's actually not an ACGME issue, but instead an ABMS issue. Your post history suggests that this is a pediatrics fellowship. In that case, the total amount of training you need to be Board Eligible is defined by the American Board of Pediatrics. I don't know what their rules / policies are about this.

As an example, the ABIM has the requirement that all graduates complete 36 months of training. However, everyone can miss "1 month" = 5 weeks of any training year. This includes vacation and sick time. We give residents 3 weeks of vacation and 1 week of sick / personal time, so using all of your sick time you could miss 3 weeks and still graduate on time. But then, the ABIM has a "shortening of training" policy that allows a PD to petition the board to shorten anyone's training by 1 month to 35 months. Since they define a month as 5 weeks, we can graduate anyone who has missed less than 8 weeks of training. However, this whole process is completely up to the PD -- residents can't petition the board, only the PD. So if a PD were to decide that all residents needed to make up all missed time, that's the way it would be.

So, perhaps the ABP allows some leeway. My local peds program actually gives new parents training credits for taking care of their own baby, clearly not applicable to a fellowship. in the end, it's up to your PD and there really isn't anything you can do about it.

This is very helpful, thank you! I will bring this up.

 

[rokshana]

Thanks for the info. To clarify my program isn’t malignant because they won’t give me leave. They are malignant because they are malignant.

Lol...so sorry about that.

And I did assume that you were in an IM fellowship...

 

[gutonc]

Of course. That’s why I am posting. I know what I am offered with FMLA, I am unclear about the limits of fellowship.

You can either ask your PD or look it up on your specialty's RRC page.

But aPD probably has it more or less right.

 

[deleted480308]

I'm curious as to how it turns out for you, if you wouldn't mind sharing later. I have some co-residents potentially facing similar issues

 

[LucidSplash]

SDN is a great resource but it always perplexed me when people seem not to know that the requirements are typically found on the specialty/sub-specialty board websites. Obviously we don’t know what peds fellowship you’re in, but as an example, here are the requirements to be board-eligible in peds heme-onc, including information on training absences.

Pediatric Hematology-Oncology Certification | The American Board of Pediatrics

Eligibility Requirements for Certification in Pediatric Hematology-Oncology The American Board of Pediatrics (ABP) has established a procedure for certification in pediatric hematology-oncology. In addition to the specific admission requirements listed below, general eligibility criteria for all...

www.abp.org

If you scroll to the bottom of the page you’ll see links to the requirements for all the sub-specialties.

 

[kchan99]

I've heard of some research time being used for maternity leave, with research being done remotely. This will be program dependent and whether a resident or fellow has already used any research time.

 

[mvenus929]

This is very helpful, thank you! I will bring this up.

As someone in a peds fellowship who had to take a leave of absence not for a baby... our GME office told me that I could use up all my vacation time and not extend, or that I had to extend my fellowship by the amount of time I missed. I was still paid during my time because I had sick leave, but because it was taken all together (not a day here and there), it counted as a leave of absence.

My cofellow just had a baby and took 12 weeks of maternity leave, and I think extended her fellowship by 10 weeks (she used 2 vacation weeks, or something).

So yes, you’ll have to extend your fellowship. By *exactly* how much depends on how much of that time is considered vacation.

 

[deleted497653]

Just to clarify, did the OP not feel it is reasonable to extend the length of the fellowship if they take fmla?