LECOM is here

[diabeticfootdr]

I attended the APMA BOT meeting in Bethesda today. During the public session the CPME disclosed that it has granted candidacy status to LECOM at its meeting last weekend.

But before everyone rags on “why would CPME do this?”, please understand that CPME can only consider its standards and if a new school applicant meets its published standards, the CPME must grant it accreditation.

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[Shiyuan]

Will this be in Lake Erie or Bradenton?

 

[Pronation]

why would CPME do this?

 

[heybrother]

Then our noble work here must continue.

 

[icebreaker32]

At this rate the podiatry schools looking for qualified students might soon know what it feels like to be a podiatrist looking for a respectable job.

 

[AttackNME]

This is why America is great. Capitalism allows competition. Let the market figure itself out. If the older schools don’t adapt, they’ll fail. Evolve or die

 

[CutsWithFury]

Cool another school we don't need. All the podiatrist who are champions for podiatry will say it will increase podiatry's profile with MD/DO students. Make podiatry more visible, etc etc etc. But the problem is older schools won't die. We just have more podiatry students than the profession needs.

Why is it that the same people are involved in making these terrible decisions?

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Why is it that the same people are involved in making these terrible decisions?

Who are they people making these terrible decisions?

 

[Boba Foot]

This is why America is great. Capitalism allows competition. Let the market figure itself out. If the older schools don’t adapt, they’ll fail. Evolve or die

Actually unfettered capitalism leads to consolidation and monopolistic behavior which stifles competition and leads to price gouging.

 

[air bud]

Then our noble work here must continue.

Consider it done

 

[heybrother]

Actually unfettered capitalism leads to consolidation and monopolistic behavior which stifles competition and leads to price gouging.

Capitalism.
A billionaire school providing a service that possibly no one wants.
A regulatory body devoid of real power
State government there to grease the wheels
Tuition dollars entirely provided by the government and probably not paid back

And waiting at the end the cold hand of private practice podiatry with a low base and a extensive non-compete.

 

[air bud]

Actually unfettered capitalism leads to consolidation and monopolistic behavior which stifles competition and leads to price gouging.

This is the real America. Facebook - hey let's buy WhatsApp and IG so they don't compete against us

 

[Redsting]

At this rate the podiatry schools looking for qualified students might soon know what it feels like to be a podiatrist looking for a respectable job.

Top comment of 2022. If there were an awards show, you would talk out with a trophy

 

[air bud]

 

[AttackNME]

This is the real America. Facebook - hey let's buy WhatsApp and IG so they don't win.

Schools don’t buy out other schools and consolidate

 

[Boba Foot]

Schools don’t buy out other schools and consolidate

Well Temple bought out whatever the **** the name of it was before, and I'm pretty sure the same thing happened with Kent State. So yeah, they sorta do. And when a big Uni buys out a smaller school, they're definitely not going to lower tuition. In fact, I reckon hat's why Temple is the most expensive of them all.

 

[de Ribas]

I attended the APMA BOT meeting in Bethesda today. During the public session the CPME disclosed that it has granted candidacy status to LECOM at its meeting last weekend.

But before everyone rags on “why would CPME do this?”, please understand that CPME can only consider its standards and if a new school applicant meets its published standards, the CPME must grant it accreditation.

I am confused. So CPME can only approve schools, but not reject?

So what organization has the right to not allow another pod school to open?

 

[Boba Foot]

This is the real America. Facebook - hey let's buy WhatsApp and IG so they don't win.

And the big 5 in grocery and OPEC gouge prices because they know most of the rubes in America will blame the president because they're too stupid to actually research an issue rather than repeat what FOX news tells them.

 

[AttackNME]

Well Temple bought out whatever the **** the name of it was before, and I'm pretty sure the same thing happened with Kent State. So yeah, they sorta do. And when a big Uni buys out a smaller school, they're definitely not going to lower tuition. In fact, I reckon hat's why Temple is the most expensive of them all.

You’re saying Temple and Kent state will possibly buy out the other podiatry schools? If they raise tuition and the new LECOM and Texas schools offer much lower tuition and can prove they offer competitive education, obviously itll make the ROI better as a podiatrist

 

[Boba Foot]

You’re saying Temple and Kent state will possibly buy out the other podiatry schools? If they raise tuition and the new LECOM and Texas schools offer much lower tuition and can prove they offer competitive education, obviously itll make the ROI better as a podiatrist

No, I'm saying the prior schools were bought out by big uni's. I believe the NY school was also either bought out or merged with a medical school as well. So it's not a stretch to say if a school begins to flounder, it'll probably get eaten up by a university system rather than shut down completely.

 

[AttackNME]

No, I'm saying the prior schools were bought out by big uni's. I believe the NY school was also either bought out or merged with a medical school as well. So it's not a stretch to say if a school begins to flounder, it'll probably get eaten up by a university system rather than shut down completely.

Yea but when has a school ever held a monopoly on anything? It doesn’t happen. I’m just saying it might be a good thing if these new schools offer lower cost options. If applications are low already to podiatry across the board then who cares if new schools are opening? Having more options doesn’t mean all seats are going to be filled.

 

[Boba Foot]

Yea but when has a school ever held a monopoly on anything? It doesn’t happen. I’m just saying it might be a good thing if these new schools offer lower cost options. If applications are low already to podiatry across the board then who cares if new schools are opening? Having more options doesn’t mean all seats are going to be filled.

I agree that lower cost options would be nice. I have a hard time believing it would stay that way though. Maybe they start out with low tuition to pick students off from the other schools, but when suits realize that there are dollars to squeeze out of people, suits will squeeze.

 

[CutsWithFury]

Who are they people making these terrible decisions?

APMA, CPME and anyone sitting in these meetings.

Nobody in that room thought to themselves that this was a bad idea?

 

[air bud]

And the big 5 in grocery and OPEC gouge prices because they know most of the rubes in America will blame the president because they're too stupid to actually research an issue rather than repeat what FOX news tells them.

Don't worry Kroger is buying Albertsons/Safeway. All good.

 

[air bud]

Yea but when has a school ever held a monopoly on anything? It doesn’t happen. I’m just saying it might be a good thing if these new schools offer lower cost options. If applications are low already to podiatry across the board then who cares if new schools are opening? Having more options doesn’t mean all seats are going to be filled.

You are right here. I didn't realize enrollment was down that much that is great news. I still viewed it as more seats more students

 

[air bud]

I agree that lower cost options would be nice. I have a hard time believing it would stay that way though. Maybe they start out with low tuition to pick students off from the other schools, but when suits realize that there are dollars to squeeze out of people, suits will squeeze.

Doesn't LECOM have the largest DO class like 250 students? I am sure they have the students best interest at heart.

 

[heybrother]

I attended the APMA BOT meeting in Bethesda today. During the public session the CPME disclosed that it has granted candidacy status to LECOM at its meeting last weekend.

But before everyone rags on “why would CPME do this?”, please understand that CPME can only consider its standards and if a new school applicant meets its published standards, the CPME must grant it accreditation.

I'm aware that other professions with too many schools have found themselves in similar situations questioning why new schools are being opened. That said, when the 2014 residency crash happened I feel like I distinctly recall steps being taken - a moratorium was placed on new schools and most schools were not allowed to take the "surplus" (10-20%, whatever) spots that they would usually take to cover their attrition. Which organization was responsible for these steps - I don't know. But if CPME is sitting here saying - well, we don't want to, but we can't do anything then someone else needed to step up.

Course everything is ...fine so why would anyone step up.

 

[DYK343]

I attended the APMA BOT meeting in Bethesda today. During the public session the CPME disclosed that it has granted candidacy status to LECOM at its meeting last weekend.

But before everyone rags on “why would CPME do this?”, please understand that CPME can only consider its standards and if a new school applicant meets its published standards, the CPME must grant it accreditation.

Not trying to be inflammatory in this comment. It's hard to ask this without sounding inflammatory given current dialog on this board.

What is the benefit of the new schools?

To date the main pro that i've heard is it will drive admissions due to DO school attachment (which we already have several schools attached to DO schools) and the texas school being associated with TMDSAS.

The TMDSAS is likely to draw attention to the Texas school but overall to me it's a head scratcher. Just not sure how this pans out but i'm open to listening to the other's opinions on the new schools.

Ill give my counter points up first so as to not sound inflammatory/baiting:

1) We have very low admission standards. Increasing the slots will drive this even lower. Large schools like Ohio, NY, and Temple will not (likely) downsize and will start accepting anyone with a pulse and a check. On top of this the admissions are way down this year and have been concerning for the last several years.

2) The residency training is very inconsistent. DPM residencies are not equal and the training consistency gap is very far apart compared to other professions. As an example, Ortho residencies will have top tier and low tier but also in general have much more consistency than podiatry residencies.

3) Providing enough residency slots. I am very concerned 2008-2010 will happen all over again. This one hits very close to home for me as I graduated 2009 and fear greatly for the incoming matriculants.

4) Job market. This has obviously been the discussion on the board for the last several months so I don't have to say much more here.

5) Dividing leadership. ABPM/ACFAS show the divide in the profession. It's happening in front of us.



I truely believe that if podiatry could make training more consistent and have better job opportunities after graduation the DPM degree would be one of the higher sought after medical professions. Unfortunately we are not there. I would love to get there but I don't see more schools as the answer. I am open to others opinions on how we exactly CAN get there.

 

[air bud]

Not trying to be inflammatory in this comment. It's hard to ask this without sounding inflammatory given current dialog on this board.

What is the benefit of the new schools?

To date the main pro that i've heard is it will drive admissions due to DO school attachment (which we already have several schools attached to DO schools) and the texas school being associated with TMDSAS.

The TMDSAS is likely to draw attention to the Texas school but overall to me it's a head scratcher. Just not sure how this pans out but i'm open to listening to the other's opinions on the new schools.

Ill give my counter points up first so as to not sound inflammatory/baiting:

1) We have very low admission standards. Increasing the slots will drive this even lower. Large schools like Ohio, NY, and Temple will not (likely) downsize and will start accepting anyone with a pulse and a check. On top of this the admissions are way down this year and have been concerning for the last several years.

2) The residency training is very inconsistent. DPM residencies are not equal and the training consistency gap is very far apart compared to other professions. As an example, Ortho residencies will have top tier and low tier but also in general have much more consistency than podiatry residencies.

3) Providing enough residency slots. I am very concerned 2008-2010 will happen all over again. This one hits very close to home for me as I graduated 2009 and fear greatly for the incoming matriculants.

4) Job market. This has obviously been the discussion on the board for the last several months so I don't have to say much more here.

5) Dividing leadership. ABPM/ACFAS show the divide in the profession. It's happening in front of us.



I truely believe that if podiatry could make training more consistent and have better job opportunities after graduation the DPM degree would be one of the higher sought after medical professions. Unfortunately we are not there. I would love to get there but I don't see more schools as the answer. I am open to others opinions on how we exactly CAN get there.

You were my inspiration on this one lol. Seriously.

 

[PTPuser]

I need a cigarette

 

[air bud]

 

[Weirdy]

I am sick and tired of new schools opening without thought put into what the next 5-10 years will look like. It is infuriating and honestly I will probably stop caring in a few years. Every man for himself.

Let me make this clear that this is not a specific dig at the Texas school. They have done their research for the most part and are trying to, at the very least, attract high quality applicants that will push the profession forward. Whatever my personal feelings towards supply and demand, residency slots, I will keep to myself regarding that school.

We will continue to see the consequences of putting another 100 students into the residency match process with ZERO increases in QUALITY residency slots.

The market speculations have been discussed ad nausea.

Good luck.

 

[AttackNME]

Not trying to be inflammatory in this comment. It's hard to ask this without sounding inflammatory given current dialog on this board.

What is the benefit of the new schools?

To date the main pro that i've heard is it will drive admissions due to DO school attachment (which we already have several schools attached to DO schools) and the texas school being associated with TMDSAS.

The TMDSAS is likely to draw attention to the Texas school but overall to me it's a head scratcher. Just not sure how this pans out but i'm open to listening to the other's opinions on the new schools.

Ill give my counter points up first so as to not sound inflammatory/baiting:

1) We have very low admission standards. Increasing the slots will drive this even lower. Large schools like Ohio, NY, and Temple will not (likely) downsize and will start accepting anyone with a pulse and a check. On top of this the admissions are way down this year and have been concerning for the last several years.

2) The residency training is very inconsistent. DPM residencies are not equal and the training consistency gap is very far apart compared to other professions. As an example, Ortho residencies will have top tier and low tier but also in general have much more consistency than podiatry residencies.

3) Providing enough residency slots. I am very concerned 2008-2010 will happen all over again. This one hits very close to home for me as I graduated 2009 and fear greatly for the incoming matriculants.

4) Job market. This has obviously been the discussion on the board for the last several months so I don't have to say much more here.

5) Dividing leadership. ABPM/ACFAS show the divide in the profession. It's happening in front of us.



I truely believe that if podiatry could make training more consistent and have better job opportunities after graduation the DPM degree would be one of the higher sought after medical professions. Unfortunately we are not there. I would love to get there but I don't see more schools as the answer. I am open to others opinions on how we exactly CAN get there.

It’s really hard to just say “I’m gonna create residencies” and make it happen. You need podiatrists with the desire, cases, and resources to do the work to start it. How many of us here are program directors or want to become one? I know a few, their hospitals get the financial benefit not them, it’s just extra paper work. I think as more podiatrists are employed by hospitals more programs will be created.

 

[Weirdy]

It’s really hard to just say “I’m gonna create residencies” and make it happen. You need podiatrists with the desire, cases, and resources to do the work to start it. How many of us here are program directors or want to become one? I know a few, their hospitals get the financial benefit not them, it’s just extra paper work. I think as more podiatrists are employed by hospitals more programs will be created.

That's fair.

 

[DYK343]

It’s really hard to just say “I’m gonna create residencies” and make it happen. You need podiatrists with the desire, cases, and resources to do the work to start it. How many of us here are program directors or want to become one? I know a few, their hospitals get the financial benefit not them, it’s just extra paper work. I think as more podiatrists are employed by hospitals more programs will be created.

I actually want to open a residency program in the future.

Im 5 years out and still have skills to perfect. Im closer to being ready to hand over the knife to teach - but not quite yet.

Soon though.

 

[newfeet]

I actually want to open a residency program in the future.

Im 5 years out and still have skills to perfect. Im closer to being ready to hand over the knife to teach - but not quite yet.

Soon though.

looks like they might need you to open one in the future. We are heading back to a shortage. 🤷🏽‍♂️

 

[newfeet]

Will this be in Lake Erie or Bradenton?

They also have NY campus… maybe they will be NYCPM competition… 🤣

 

[Pronation]

I actually want to open a residency program in the future.

Im 5 years out and still have skills to perfect. Im closer to being ready to hand over the knife to teach - but not quite yet.

Soon though.

That’s ok, you can just have residents close the wound for you like a bunch of other residencies out there.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

APMA, CPME and anyone sitting in these meetings.

Nobody in that room thought to themselves that this was a bad idea?

That’s what I mean. The profession’s leaders aren’t involved in these decisions. APMA found out at the same time I did. CPME isn’t allowed to reduce competition, because 1. it’s a free country and 2. it’s actually illegal - a violation of anti-trust laws. So all they can do is evaluate if the new school meets the standards and if they do, they must accredit it.

 

[Podstar]

Perfect. When they start graduating from residency I will have my private practice ready to hire them for pennies on the dollar and make me a ton of money. 70k base will be great for them and me!!

 

[icebreaker32]

Supply snd demand will probably dictate if all these schools succeed.....I say probably, because loans from the government, income based repayments and loan forgiveness options (less so with podiatry) while not entirely a bad thing in many cases are not necessarily reflective of true supply and demand.

When legitimate 180K jobs found easily on the internet occasionally go unfilled in cities over 60K population then we probably have a good supply/demand in this profession. I doubt I see it in my lifetime.....I hope I am wrong.

The leaders act like it is a tragedy if any unmet foot care need is not met by podiatry. Lets be honest how much of podiatry is just nail care....low pay/high audit risk. Older retired podiatrists feel it is crime to give up nail care......when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail (pun intended).

There are certainly for profit medical schools that don't care that much about demand....but demand is so great it can not be filled with MDs, DOs, foreign and offshore MDs and PAs and NPs helping out. Good jobs can sit vacant with zero, yes zero applicants for months at a time because the MDs are choosing great jobs and/or great locations.

The supply and demand in many other healthcare fields is honestly like living in an alternate universe if you are a podiatrist. The only way you get a taste of this is if you are hired by an organization that mainly hires MDs. The administration knows how many DPMs applied for the job, but everyone else is like.....we are so happy to have you, you must have had so many other job offers and we are so glad you picked us etc as they have no idea the difference between a podiatrist and other specialties and even if they do, they work somewhere where all doctors are treated with a level of respect and dignity that is not the norm in PP podiatry jobs.....there it is like my office manager is in charge and if you piss off one of my longtime medical assistants you are gone.

 

[de Ribas]

Supply snd demand will probably dictate if all these schools succeed.....I say probably, because loans from the government, income based repayments and loan forgiveness options (less so with podiatry) while not entirely a bad thing in many cases are not necessarily reflective of true supply and demand.

When legitimate 180K jobs found easily on the internet occasionally go unfilled in cities over 60K population then we probably have a good supply/demand in this profession. I doubt I see it in my lifetime.....I hope I am wrong.

The leaders act like it is a tragedy if any unmet foot care need is not met by podiatry. Lets be honest how much of podiatry is just nail care....low pay/high audit risk. Older retired podiatrists feel it is crime to give up nail care......when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail (pun intended).

There are certainly for profit medical schools that don't care that much about demand....but demand is so great it can not be filled with MDs, DOs, foreign and offshore MDs and PAs and NPs helping out. Good jobs can sit vacant with zero, yes zero applicants for months at a time because the MDs are choosing great jobs and/or great locations.

The supply and demand in many other healthcare fields is honestly like living in an alternate universe if you are a podiatrist. The only way you get a taste of this is if you are hired by an organization that mainly hires MDs. The administration knows how many DPMs applied for the job, but everyone else is like.....we are so happy to have you, you must have had so many other job offers and we are so glad you picked us etc as they have no idea the difference between a podiatrist and other specialties and even if they do, they work somewhere where all doctors are treated with a level of respect and dignity that is not the norm in PP podiatry jobs.....there it is like my office manager is in charge and if you piss off one of my longtime medical assistants you are gone.

I believe pharmacy and NP programs demonstrate that supply And demand principles dont work well. So they open more programs/schools.

 

[heybrother]

Podiatry - where the only thing saving you from catastrophe is that no one wants to go to podiatry school.

Consider.

UTRGV takes its first class.
A 4 year countdown now begins where residencies must be made to take these students.
However, thankfully, wonderfully, gift from God - no one wants to go to podiatry school. The classes aren't filling. Lowest matriculation ever.
There will be residencies for those students because of the professions overall lack of desireability.
Were all the classes to fill and UTRGV was to open - catastrophe.
Bemoaned by podiatry leadership, of course. Yes, long term consequences to follow.

And now - boom a new school. Who from LECOM will be joining us to provide empty promises of future new residencies I wonder?

What a broken profession. What a failure of leadership.

 

[icebreaker32]

U.S.News is certainly not the authority on healthcare....but they rank podiatry 26 out of 29 healthcare professions and claim there are 200 jobs available per year. Not sure where they got their information but it is actually fairly accurate.

Best Healthcare Jobs of 2020

These are the best healthcare jobs in America.

money.usnews.com

 

[Boba Foot]

U.S.News is certainly not the authority on healthcare....but they rank podiatry 26 out of 29 healthcare professions and claim there are 200 jobs available per year. Not sure where they got their information but it is actually fairly accurate.

Best Healthcare Jobs of 2020

These are the best healthcare jobs in America.

money.usnews.com

Beat out by chiropractors. Love it.

 

[CutsWithFury]

U.S.News is certainly not the authority on healthcare....but they rank podiatry 26 out of 29 healthcare professions and claim there are 200 jobs available per year. Not sure where they got their information but it is actually fairly accurate.

Best Healthcare Jobs of 2020

These are the best healthcare jobs in America.

money.usnews.com

They get their data from SDN attending forum....

You know...the online forum that is ruining podiatry according the "champions of podiatry". Ten anonymous posters wrecking the entire profession.

 

[icebreaker32]

Beat out by chiropractors. Love it.

.....but we are above estheticians

 

[air bud]

.....but we are above estheticians

Another reason why Podiatry is such a hidden gem, is you can open up a foot spa and hire those beneath us estheticians

 

[icebreaker32]

The Bureau of Labor Statistics projects 1.8 percent employment growth for podiatrists between 2020 and 2030. In that period, an estimated 200 jobs should open up.

Compared with

The Bureau of Labor Statistics projects 31.0 percent employment growth for physician assistants between 2020 and 2030. In that period, an estimated 40,100 jobs should open up.

I can only assume the job market/saturation was the main reason podiatry was rated so low. Others do not seem to think there will be a great change in demand due to diabetes, aging population etc either.

 

[GreenHousePub]

Man if enrollment wasn't down I'd be worried about us turning into the pharmacy job market.

That said I'm going to be doing some serious saving for the next 5-10 years in case it happens anyways.