It's official: Physician Associate (not Assistant).

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Lawpy said:
Is it bad i only watched the last episode and read the wiki to understand the story
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Lol like Hoov-man I just watched it to understand the memes so I'm not much better.
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Commrade said:
There were multiple points during the first episode where I almost dropped it because it was so badly written, but the ending of that episode was what got me to keep watching.

Sadly the generic writing/dialogue does not stop there, but I will admit it is better than I thought it would be (though I still haven't finished it yet).
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Actually the ending is what made me not want to watch any more of it. I know it’s based on a comic, but the gritty super hero thing where some of them are bad is getting overdone to me. I’d rather just watch The Boys.
 
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Splenda88 said:
Well, there are actually cheaper.


journals.lww.com

Health care costs associated with primary care physicians... : Journal of the American Association of Nurse Practitioners

role of NPs and PAs in primary caregiving. Purpose: This study evaluated the health care costs associated with VA patients cared for by NPs and PAs versus primary care physicians (physicians). Methods: A retrospective data analysis using two separate cohorts of VA patients, one with diabetes...
journals.lww.com journals.lww.com
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"2021 American Association of Nurse Practitioners" sounds like an extremely legitimate, unbiased source to me.
 
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Splenda88 said:
They have 2 MD who signed on that [insert].
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To that, I would say money talks. But I don't want to make assumptions, maybe it was a credible study with no broad extrapolations, I just know how some "scientific journals" funded by outside sources can be.
 
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Splenda88 said:
Well, there are actually cheaper.


journals.lww.com

Health care costs associated with primary care physicians... : Journal of the American Association of Nurse Practitioners

role of NPs and PAs in primary caregiving. Purpose: This study evaluated the health care costs associated with VA patients cared for by NPs and PAs versus primary care physicians (physicians). Methods: A retrospective data analysis using two separate cohorts of VA patients, one with diabetes...
journals.lww.com journals.lww.com
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This is such a cherry picked topic as the study itself doesn't place any associated value with those "saved Healthcare costs " i.e. health outcomes, hospitalizations, etc.

Sure, I could pay the kid next door to put in a new roof on my house and save a lot of money. Doesn't mean I won't flood the first time it storms after the "job" was completed
 
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Associate TO the Physician
 
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1623983829954.png
 
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JoaoMoutinho said:
Technically doesn't say "physician" but you reminded me of this one that certainly implies it:

Edited out their name even though it was publicly available information just to be on the safe side.
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Lol. literally saw chiropractic physician on a drive home last week
 
Trust me… after residency I may or may not supplement my income by selling snake oil…
 
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Refreshing to see that in an ED exam room in New Hampshire. Posted on FB



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Stranger00120 said:
I grew up in this area. I'm very curious which hospital this is. I can eliminate some, I think, and I think I might know which hospital, but I'm not 100% certain.
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Not sure. Image was taken from physician group in FB
 
sunshinefl said:
Man maybe I made a mistake when I chose physician route over PA route.
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You and I were (or are) both nurses and trust me that you did not make a mistake if you plan to work for another 25+ years.

Hospitalist salary is more than twice of these salaries
 
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Redpancreas said:
They're using the word "physician" in there. Can we not in turn ask them to remove it. If they're not a nurse, not a physician-derivate, what are they? Let them figure it out. Resident Physicians who can't find jobs or Medical Students are who should be called Physician Associates. They can call themselves Provider Associates for all I care.
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There actually are "Associate Physicians," unmatched physicians who basically work as PAs in certain states. However, the idea is oddly controversial despite the physician being better trained than a PA graduate.

I believe the major physician groups either outright oppose the creation of APs / want to limit their licensure to no more than a couple renewals, making it not a viable career option.

I do believe people are making a mountain out of a mole hill about PAs calling themselves "Physician Associates." The issue here is the independent practice movement, not mere nomenclature. It isn't unprecedented because British PAs are called "associates."
 
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Maimonides1 said:
Bad idea..!
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I mean if you want to trust your life to an incompetent NP, be my guest. I would personally trust the worst medical student with my health than the best NP.
 
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El-Rami said:
I mean if you want to trust your life to an incompetent NP, be my guest. I would personally trust the worst medical student with my health than the best NP.
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This has to be hyperbolic. Ive seen some pretty competent NPs in my experiences as a premed and as a med student on rotations. Acknowledging that doesn’t negate any efforts to prevent scope creep but you just have to be honest.
 
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catnip12 said:
This has to be hyperbolic. Ive seen some pretty competent NPs in my experiences as a premed and as a med student on rotations. Acknowledging that doesn’t negate any efforts to prevent scope creep but you just have to be honest.
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As an actual physician

I’ve never seen this, literally ever

Also, you’ve done literally one rotation dude…

Your eyes will be opened when you’re midway through intern year and you realize how incapable and incompetent they all are
 
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sunshinefl said:
Man maybe I made a mistake when I chose physician route over PA route.
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Tbh a 130k is a pretty weak salary in today’s world. Physicians also stand to make much more than average if they’re motivated to, (ethical) PAs are always going to be employees.



El-Rami said:
I mean if you want to trust your life to an incompetent NP, be my guest. I would personally trust the worst medical student with my health than the best NP.
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catnip12 said:
This has to be hyperbolic. Ive seen some pretty competent NPs in my experiences as a premed and as a med student on rotations. Acknowledging that doesn’t negate any efforts to prevent scope creep but you just have to be honest.
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Natremia said:
As an actual physician

I’ve never seen this, literally ever

Also, you’ve done literally one rotation dude…

Your eyes will be opened when you’re midway through intern year and you realize how incapable and incompetent they all are
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You really doubled down on that… it’s interesting coming from someone who claims to be a physician. I guess for your sake we should all hope that if you ever have a MI there’s a M3 around instead of a cardiac ICU nurse
 
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Natremia said:
As an actual physician

I’ve never seen this, literally ever

Also, you’ve done literally one rotation dude…

Your eyes will be opened when you’re midway through intern year and you realize how incapable and incompetent they all are
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I’ve been on rotations since January so no I’ve had 6 months of rotations already. I also worked for several years in a hospital before med school.

Not saying they should be functioning as doctors but again, I’ve met a couple of very competent NPs within their niches and actually one of the most intelligent people I ever met was a career changer PhD who decided to go to PA school. I’ve also met docs that other docs say they’d never trust with their own families.

people come on a curve.
 
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As a different kind of PA (pathologists’ assistant, or should I say aSsOcIaTe), they need to get a grip. Accept that you’re not a physician and focus on the good work you could be doing when you’re not petitioning about the name of it.
 
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ChemEtoMD23 said:
130k is a pretty weak salary? 130k for an individual is in the 88th percentile of salaries (Income Percentile Calculator for the United States).
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I don't think national percentiles are a good way to judge salaries... 20k is the 50th percentile worldwide but you wouldn't tell someone making that in the US they were doing amazing...

It's all relative. If someone is making 250k+ as a doctor I doubt they'll go back to 130K and say the 88th percentile is good enough. If someone's entire family only ever made 50k a year, the average, 130k may seem really really good for a single earner, a PCP's salary is a dream come true and forget about the orthos. Conversely, if they were making 130k and the people they considered their peers made a lot more doing a lot less would they be satisfied with 130 because it's still 88th percentile nationally? I doubt they would be.

There's a lot of discussion on SDN about people in tech or banking making more doing less etc and how many of them actually making it to the big leagues you see vs. the many that don't etc. I think those are good points but I also think they miss the broader point, that explains why the idea is so prevalent, which is that those are the people many med students have as peers from college and consider peers capability-wise. So if my college roommate is sitting on zoom meetings all day and pulling 150k+, 130k to work 60+ hours in a hospital doesn't sound that great no matter what percentile it is in the US or worldwide.
 
Natremia said:
As an actual physician

I’ve never seen this, literally ever

Also, you’ve done literally one rotation dude…

Your eyes will be opened when you’re midway through intern year and you realize how incapable and incompetent they all are
Click to expand...
As another actual physician, I've seen both. There are some pretty good NPs out there. There's also some pretty bad ones.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr said:
As another actual physician, I've seen both. There are some pretty good NPs out there. There's also some pretty bad ones.
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I am not an actual physician YET but one thing I have noticed is that even the good NP like to order a bunch of labs. Eveyone has to get a trop and a d-dimer for some reason.
 
Splenda88 said:
I am not an actual physician YET but one thing I have noticed is that even the good NP like to order a bunch of labs. Eveyone has to get a trop and a d-dimer for some reason.
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Oh yeah, totally over order stuff. No argument there.
 
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Not to beat a dead horse but this is a true gem.

<rant>

I'm standing in the ED with my student badge waiting to talk to the doc. The PA looks at me. We know each other. They ask - "So, why are you here? You guys have summer off or something?" I say - "Yeah... we go back in a month..." The PA says (with a slight smurky tone of voice) - "When I was in school we did not have any summers off." (emphasis on "I" and the fact that it has been a while since they were in school). I say - "Different program..." (referring to the fact that the PA program is different than MD). The response floored me: "Nooo.... It's College of Medicine..."

I just repeated - "Different program..."

:oops:

But then this is the same person who was telling the nurses a story of their patient, that began with "I am walking in to the room and say 'Hi, my name is ------, I am your ER doc today..." I did not listen to the rest of the story because I tried to discern if they either misportrayed themselves to the patient (BAD!) or misspoke telling the story (but why?).

</rant>
 
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ChemEtoMD23 said:
Well, yes, of course 130k is low for a physician, but you just said 130k is a weak salary in today’s world, which isn’t true. My parents’ household income growing up was quite a bit less than 130k, but we still had very comfortable lives.

Also, I sincerely doubt that most people who make it into medical school could be rockstars in other fields like you’re suggesting. Medical schools mostly value applicants’ abilities to perform as students (GPA/MCAT), to show scientific curiosity (through involvement in research), and to demonstrate altruism (clinical/non-clinical volunteering). None of these things will get you ahead in other fields. I know that, as an engineer, the best way to climb the corporate/technical ladder is by showing creativity, initiative, and people skills. Sure, these are also valuable as a physician, but aside from minimal screening of people skills via interviews, medical schools don’t seem to place much emphasis on them during admissions.
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When you start looking for a house in a reasonably safe neighborhood with reasonably good public schools come back and tell us how great a 130k salary is for someone who spent their entire youth in school/training/paying off student loans.
 
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ACSurgeon said:
When you start looking for a house in a reasonably safe neighborhood with reasonably good public schools come back and tell us how great a 130k salary is for someone who spent their entire youth in school/training/paying off student loans.
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Talk about out of touch. You realize that 130k is more than double the median household income, right? Most people living in safe neighborhoods with good public schools are not making 130k.

But to your point, I currently live in a very safe neighborhood with good schools. My wife and I combined make about 140k, and between the two of us, we have a decent student loan burden we are paying off. We live in a 3 bedroom home with 2 kids in an expensive part of the country. Most of the people who live here are not making physician salaries.

The idea that you have to slum it if you’re making less than 200k a year is so absurd and out of touch with reality, I don’t even know what else to say about it.
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Talk about out of touch. You realize that 130k is more than double the median household income, right? Most people living in safe neighborhoods with good public schools are not making 130k.

But to your point, I currently live in a very safe neighborhood with good schools. My wife and I combined make about 140k, and between the two of us, we have a decent student loan burden we are paying off. We live in a 3 bedroom home with 2 kids in an expensive part of the country. Most of the people who live here are not making physician salaries.

The idea that you have to slum it if you’re making less than 200k a year is so absurd and out of touch with reality, I don’t even know what else to say about it.
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I live in a normal Midwest city and house prices have shot up something ridiculous. A house that used to be 250k when I was in college is now double that amount. if I wanted to make a median household income I would have lived a very different life in my 20’s and 30’s. Making less than 200k isn’t slumming it, but once you account for student loan payments, retirement planning, you quickly realize how little you have for anything above average. I have no interest in talking to the group here that believes the sacrifice to become a physician should be rewarded with being able to afford an average American life. Within healthcare, nurses with a two year associate degree can make 6 figures. Surely you believe there should be a difference in pay. Before you bring in PhDs or lawyers in the argument note that I’m bringing someone in the same field who could be working at the same hospital or clinic as you for a better comparison of financial compensation relative to education and training.
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Talk about out of touch. You realize that 130k is more than double the median household income, right? Most people living in safe neighborhoods with good public schools are not making 130k.

But to your point, I currently live in a very safe neighborhood with good schools. My wife and I combined make about 140k, and between the two of us, we have a decent student loan burden we are paying off. We live in a 3 bedroom home with 2 kids in an expensive part of the country. Most of the people who live here are not making physician salaries.

The idea that you have to slum it if you’re making less than 200k a year is so absurd and out of touch with reality, I don’t even know what else to say about it.
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Also, good for you for buying already, as you’ll have equity if you chose to upgrade. The average medical student today does not own a house, and when they look for their first house it’ll be a moment of reckoning.
 
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ACSurgeon said:
I live in a normal Midwest city and house prices have shot up something ridiculous. A house that used to be 250k when I was in college is now double that amount. if I wanted to make a median household income I would have lived a very different life in my 20’s and 30’s. Making less than 200k isn’t slumming it, but once you account for student loan payments, retirement planning, you quickly realize how little you have for anything above average. I have no interest in talking to the group here that believes the sacrifice to become a physician should be rewarded with being able to afford an average American life. Within healthcare, nurses with a two year associate degree can make 6 figures. Surely you believe there should be a difference in pay. Before you bring in PhDs or lawyers in the argument note that I’m bringing someone in the same field who could be working at the same hospital or clinic as you for a better comparison of financial compensation relative to education and training.
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I mean you make some valid points here. The problem is that none of them are addressing what I said. Your statement was that someone looking for a house in a safe neighborhood with good schools will have a hard time with a 130k income. That is patently false. Pointing that out isn’t the same as saying physicians should make 130k, and if you don’t want to live an average life, that’s fine—but that’s a very different statement than saying you can’t live in a good neighborhood with an above average income.
 
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ACSurgeon said:
Also, good for you for buying already, as you’ll have equity if you chose to upgrade. The average medical student today does not own a house, and when they look for their first house it’ll be a moment of reckoning.
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Well I’m not an average med student. I’m 37 with a family, and I get paid to go to medical school. I used myself as an example because I’m doing almost exactly what you said would be exceptionally difficult, and it isn’t.
 
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