Is 3 to 6 month maternity leave fair?

[BidingMyTime]

Correct. We live in a democracy. "Most fair" is the goal of any democracy.

Technically, the US is officially a Republic, not a democracy

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[BidingMyTime]

I predicted this: To simply sweep this injustice under the rug and somehow claim that the sins of societies long ago somehow excuse your apathy towards the rights of men and passive aggressive misandry is slap to the face of anyone that truly cares about human rights.

And how are men being discrimanted against? You throw out a lot of accusations, ignoring the fact that FMLA is available to fathers every bit as much as mothers. All 12 weeks of it. There is nothing at all sexist about FMLA, so quit wasting everyone's time with your straw men. Or wait, strawpeople. Want to be all inclusive here.

On the other hand, your posts clearly drip of misogyny.

 

[BidingMyTime]

You don't have enough understanding of hospital pharmacy practice to throw out opinions about using staffing company to fill overnight pharmacist position. It takes 3 to 6 months to train a hospital pharmacist. And a night pharmacist is in charge of medication management of every critically ill patient. No, we would never use agency.
That's why it's extremely difficult to fill a position for 3 to 6 months. It is a major undertaking which you fail to acknowledge the burden it places on the employer and the rest of staff.

Well, we all know that your hospital pharmacy is unlike all othe hospital pharmacies. I've worked at several hospitals before, all of them used PRN on the occasions when they couldn't get anyone inhouse to do the shifts. Generally, the PRN pharmacist was just scheduled and given no training--the agency would send a pharmacist with hospital experience.....if the pharmacist were lucky they got a 2 - 3 hours shift overlap with another pharmacist. I have worked with PRN pharmacists, I have had them fill in for myself. Without any problems.

I'm sure it takes 3 - 6 months to train a pharmacist on all the aspects of the computer system, protocols, material managements etc. But fill-in pharmacists can function quite competantly without knowing all of that.

 

[BenJammin]

And how are men being discrimanted against? You throw out a lot of accusations, ignoring the fact that FMLA is available to fathers every bit as much as mothers. All 12 weeks of it. There is nothing at all sexist about FMLA, so quit wasting everyone's time with your straw men. Or wait, strawpeople. Want to be all inclusive here.

On the other hand, your posts clearly drip of misogyny.

You don't even know what misogony is. Wanting fair treatment means you hate other people? Get outta here.

 

[BidingMyTime]

You don't even know what misogony is. Wanting fair treatment means you hate other people? Get outta here.

#1) I wasn't talking to you....but for some reason you thought the misogony comment applied to you? I wonder why?

2) As has been explained, you do have fair treatment. Your choosing not to avail yourself of a benefit doesn't mean it's not "fair" if other people do avail themselves of that benefit.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

And how are men being discrimanted against? You throw out a lot of accusations, ignoring the fact that FMLA is available to fathers every bit as much as mothers. All 12 weeks of it. There is nothing at all sexist about FMLA, so quit wasting everyone's time with your straw men. Or wait, strawpeople. Want to be all inclusive here.

I agree that it isn't a sexist law. You will note that nowhere I implied it was. It equally allows everyone, including men, women, and other to abandon their coworkers for 12 weeks (which is way too much). The gender in question is irrelevant. Either way it is equally annoying. In fact, if men do it, its more annoying because they don't at least have the excuse of physical recovery to lean on. This is why compulsory education, which also doubles as free of charge child care, should be extended to infancy for all people in the work force. Then people can't use it as a crutch to abandon their coworkers for what is, again, a voluntary medical procedure.

As or your further complaints, men are being discriminated against in ways myself and Z were discussing in an off topic matter later in the thread. Feel free to reread them.

On the other hand, your posts clearly drip of misogyny.

They drip of male liberation. This frightens feminists because it makes them realize that they have become the subtle promoters of nonequality that men used to be via passive acceptance of the Victorian model of the male and nonacceptance of men becoming true equals to women in aspects outside of the typical gender equality roles such as being able to vote and labor laws.

I propose that I believe in equality much more than any feminist you can name. I have accepted women as my equal in the workforce and politically. I wish Hilary Clinton would run for president because I find the two candidates running as incredibly weak. I have no problem with women in that respect. I have a problem with women claiming that they still live in a time of male privilege, because that is no longer true at all. We are transitioning into a time of female privilege. And I'm not just making this up. There are big time, influential works out there not only documenting it, but promoting it. Google "The End of Men." Feminists are perfectly fine with men falling behind women. They may not overtly say this, but their continued apathy towards men rights issues shows me that they do not care. Women now need to accept the emerging liberated man as their emotional equal. They need to accept the humanity of the liberated man. One whose life is of equal importance. And with selective service laws, the expectance of man to be "the protector" and give his life for women, if needed (again, see how the men in the theater shooting were treated,) the fact that men are disposable in the American family unit (family law is the most sexist realm of law, period...and its tilted against men,) and other issues (I could go on and on and on)...it is clear that we aren't even close to being there yet.

And it is the majority of women and complicit men are the ones that need to make the change towards accepting equality this time. And when men try to bring these very legitimate complaints up, they are instantly labeled as "whiners" and "misogynists".

 

[BidingMyTime]

As or your further complaints, men are being discriminated against in ways myself and Z were discussing in an off topic matter later in the thread. Feel free to reread them.

I haven't made a statement one way or another on your off-topic comments. Therefore it seems your accusing me of "passive aggressive misanthropy" seems to be a swipe at my refusing to budge on my opinion that FMLA is fair.

And it is the majority of women and complicit men are the ones that need to make the change towards accepting equality this time. And when men try to bring these very legitimate complaints up, they are instantly labeled as "whiners" and "misogynists".

I labelled you as as a whiner because of your whining in this thread about women having children and FMLA leave. And your statements that women who want to have children should stay home in the kitchen. Your statements speak for themselves on your contempt for women....and voting for a woman for president doesn't mean you respect women, anymore than it means my 2nd cousin isn't a raciet, she who voted for Obama because her union told her to, even though she admittedly "hates blacks".

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I haven't made a statement one way or another on your off-topic comments. Therefore it seems your accusing me of "passive aggressive misanthropy" seems to be a swipe at my refusing to budge on my opinion that FMLA is fair.

I don't like how people can take 3 months off for no real reason, other than a voluntary medical procedure...or even more pathetic...to "support" a voluntary medical procedure. I consider the men here to be pretty damn pathetic being that at least physical recovery time is a legit gripe. This has nothing to do with men or women. If I want to focus on my career, I shouldn't have my work life worsened because some asshat decides to take off for work for 3 months for a voluntary procedure. I'd be fine with needed physical recovery time or maybe like 3-4 weeks. But 3 months is obnoxious. 6 months is just abuse of the system.

I guess you could say, hypothetically, that my problem would be mostly with women being that they are the ones that just so happen to give birth, but the problem with that is I see the rare men that take the same time off as way less justifiable and flat out abusive.

Men never take off for paternity leave in Pharmacy, though. I've never, ever seen it. My partner had a kid and he took a day off to see his kid give birth. I even filled in for him that night. And I didn't have a problem with it because one day isn't unreasonable...and I got paid for it.

Women who have no plans on having children and men that won't take 3 months off for no damn reason are the best coworkers in this regard. And, frankly, I think businesses SHOULD be able to make hiring decisions based upon this. That's why I always tell people in interviews that we are highly career oriented and that I can't have children, so we will always be willing to work any holiday (both working Xmas this year) and won't have to call out to pick up our sick kid for the next 18 years.

Managers (like Z) prefer these types and even if they can't overtly go for them, in the back of their mind, it will always be a winner in the tie breaker portion of the hiring circus. Of course, my wife is a floater, so in a way the overgenerous laws help her get shifts (though she hasn't had to replace a breeder yet.) Perhaps when she takes over for yet another mom that wants to go part time to raise their overrated child, I'll feel differently.

I'm just constantly reminded of the 3 pharmacists that decided to have babies around the same time at a previous job. We were totally screwed for months with RPH on the Go replacements that just didn't have he experience to get the job done. It resulted in everyone else doing extra hours against their will to make sure people didn't die...let alone the usual level of service we would have liked to have provided.

Also, it should be pointed out that I actually like kids...I just don't want to have anything to do with raising them other than paying school taxes....I just can't stand parents, honestly. They think they are entitled to other peoples' time constantly. And that they can't at least take some damned work home with them or something gets on my nerves. It's a vacation...in many cases a paid vacation.

Which is why, again, I think those who are medically sterilized should be allowed to take a paid, 3 month sabbatical once in their career if their coworkers get 3 months off to "bond" with their spawn. I want to "bond" with a vacation in Europe that lasts 3 months. If they allow this, I'd be perfectly fine with getting a 3 month vacation for every kid someone plops out. Because at least then I know I get to screw them over as bad as they screw me over.

I think that's fair. I'm only asking for *1*. Not one every 2-3 years like people with 8 kids get. Get on that and I'll be all for the 6 month vacation for parents law. Then I will feel included and can share in the vacation free for all.

I labelled you as as a whiner because of your whining in this thread about women having children and FMLA leave. And your statements that women who want to have children should stay home in the kitchen.

lmfao. Wow, you're actually dense to take obvious trolling seriously. Note that nobody else on the entire forum is taking the over-the-top stuff me and Z type seriously. As I previously noted when I began a post "All trolling aside..." Which, I one would assume, would fill you in...but I overestimate the forum once again...)

Your statements speak for themselves on your contempt for women....and voting for a woman for president doesn't mean you respect women, anymore than it means my 2nd cousin isn't a raciet, she who voted for Obama because her union told her to, even though she admittedly "hates blacks".

The difference here is that I actually don't hate women. If I was, I wouldn't be married to a very mentally strong woman that makes the same income as me, shares all household decisions with me, and I consider my financial, interpersonal, and professional equal. As I mentioned before, I don't particularly like most American women because they have been brainwashed to believe that they deserve total professional, political, and cultural equality in matters that benefit them AND to be on a pedestal by men in the old fashioned open your door, buy you an expensive ass engagement ring sort of way. Women typically don't see how they have surpassed men in societal privilege. I rebel against this in my own ways. I don't put the toilet seat down, ever. I never let women go first because they are women. I open doors for men and women. Etc, etc. I'm fine with equality. I'm not fine with women getting the benefits of redefining their gender roles while simultaneously expecting men to reserve their gender roles that also benefit them. It shouldn't be that way if we are actually going to have a frank discussion about gender roles. The only thing I "hate" is that men are now secondary citizens to women and that women, along with many men, don't seem to care. Was the opposite true in the past? Yes. Does that excuse "The End of Men?" No.

But this is all based off of an off topic post made by Z.

And I'd vote for Hilary because she's a badass that don't take ****. The fact that she is a woman is irrelevant.

I know a male having an opinion that counters yours is new to you. You've been told that we are supposed to be stupid and always lose arguments to you. I know. We are all potential rapists and pigs (verbatim from another thread on this forum). Perhaps when the mens' liberation revolution comes, we will finally be equals in your mind and maybe then you will be able to accept me as your equal. I can only hope.

 

[rxlea]

I've seen pharmacists take paternity leave.

 

[BidingMyTime]

lmfao. Wow, you're actually dense to take obvious trolling seriously. Note that nobody else on the entire forum is taking the over-the-top stuff me and Z type seriously. As I previously noted when I began a post "All trolling aside..." Which, I one would assume, would fill you in...but I overestimate the forum once again...)

Yes. that is a well-known tactic of bullies & victimizers. "I was just joking", "I was just trolling", "can't you take a joke?" There is nothing funny about hostile humor.

I don't put the toilet seat down, ever.

That's just stupid. Common sense, the toilet lid & seat should always be put down to prevent stuff from being knocked into the toilet. (if you've ever worked retail, you know how common a problem this is ) It's just as inconvenient for a woman to lift up the toilet lid, as it is for a guy to lift up the lid & seat together--so I don't get why you think this is some show of manly pride or whatever.

only thing I "hate" is that men are now secondary citizens to women and that women, along with many men, don't seem to care.

Which is more evidence that you just don't get it, if you think the modern man's situation is inferior to a modern day woman's situation, much more anywhere near being comparable to the situation of a woman in the past.

I know a male having an opinion that counters yours is new to you. You've been told that we are supposed to be stupid and always lose arguments to you. I know. We are all potential rapists and pigs (verbatim from another thread on this forum). Perhaps when the mens' liberation revolution comes, we will finally be equals in your mind and maybe then you will be able to accept me as your equal. I can only hope.

blah, blah, blah. Yes, how did you guess that I live in happy-kitty-rainbow-land whever every person both male & female share my opinion? More strawmen. I totally understand though. What else can one you do to pretend to win an argument when you have no facts?

 

[Nottingham]

They drip of male liberation.

Ick.

 

[Poetic Silence]

Is that what they call it these days, "liberation?" In my day it was called gonorrhea. Weird.

 

[Its Z]

Don't worry Mikey...we too can play this game...

My buddies and I decided we will only hire men and postmenopausal women for benefitted full time positions and only hire young women for per diem and fill ins..

And they can take all the maternity they want

Is that discrimination?? ?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

There is nothing funny about hostile humor.

Yes there is. Trolling is an art. And it's an art in which you intermix hilarious baiting with serious sounding discussion to keep the bait on the hook. The longer they post, the funnier it gets.

That's just stupid. Common sense, the toilet lid & seat should always be put down to prevent stuff from being knocked into the toilet. (if you've ever worked retail, you know how common a problem this is ) It's just as inconvenient for a woman to lift up the toilet lid, as it is for a guy to lift up the lid & seat together--so I don't get why you think this is some show of manly pride or whatever.

Because I want to leave it up and nobody will tell me otherwise. I don't like it when I stumble into the bathroom at night and piss all over the toilet seat because I didn't look and assumed it was in the correct conformation.

Which is more evidence that you just don't get it, if you think the modern man's situation is inferior to a modern day woman's situation, much more anywhere near being comparable to the situation of a woman in the past.

We are clearly in an emerging period of female privilege. Again, read articles such as "The End of Men." Look at unemployment stats from young men. Compare the salaries of young men to young women. Compare educational attainment. Young men are well behind young women.

You can put your head in the sand all you want, but for those that believe in true human rights, it is clear that there needs to be a cultural shift towards helping the young men that are being left behind.

blah, blah, blah. Yes, how did you guess that I live in happy-kitty-rainbow-land whever every person both male & female share my opinion? More strawmen. I totally understand though. What else can one you do to pretend to win an argument when you have no facts?

I've presented several facts. You choose to ignore them. Which is fine.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Don't worry Mikey...we too can play this game...

My buddies and I decided we will only hire men and postmenopausal women for benefitted full time positions and only hire young women for per diem and fill ins..

And they can take all the maternity they want

Is that discrimination?? ?

No, Z. That's freedom.

 

[Momus]

Because I want to leave it up and nobody will tell me otherwise. I don't like it when I stumble into the bathroom at night and piss all over the toilet seat because I didn't look and assumed it was in the correct conformation.

****ing double standard, we are EXPECTED to put up with this. I never put down my toilet seat either... What? A woman can't waste a second to do this? Yet, I have to put it down for them all the time? The last time I ever drop anything into toilet bowl was I was in elementary school... Bringing this up is not going to give you any points.

We are clearly in an emerging period of female privilege. Again, read articles such as "The End of Men." Look at unemployment stats from young men. Compare the salaries of young men to young women. Compare educational attainment. Young men are well behind young women.

You can put your head in the sand all you want, but for those that believe in true human rights, it is clear that there needs to be a cultural shift towards helping the young men that are being left behind.

I've presented several facts. You choose to ignore them. Which is fine.

Stop putting her to shame LOL...

A woman can kill/rape someone and get less jail time than a man. **** that chit.
"Happy wives = Happy life" - it's never the other way around. **** that chit.

Definitely the best solution is to hire only males like Z said

 

[All4MyDaughter]

This thread has clearly outlived its usefulness. Closing.