Interesting study re coronaviruses

[Nephro critical care]

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985.pdf

There is an interesting study from Nature Medicine 2015 that I was looking at. This is a basic science article but worth the read. This study basically shows what Wuhan Institute of Virology was up to in 2015 (approved and funded by NIH and NIAID). The virus they created is eerily similar to COVID -19.

Basically what they created was a hybrid virus composed of the original SARS virus with a spike protein of a bat coronavirus. The original SARS virus was very lethal but wouldn’t mutate. This hybrid virus would.

This hybrid virus would:

• Kill older animals far more than younger animals.
• Become rapidly resistant to monoclonal antibodies by production of escape mutants.
• Vaccine protection would only last 30 days on average and then antibody titers would fall. No vaccine was successful for this hybrid.
• Remdesivir would inhibit viral replication in vitro.

All of these properties are characteristic of the COVID-19 virus.

Last and the most frightening property which we haven’t seen with COVID 19 so far.

Vaccines were capable of causing antibody dependent enhancement(ADE). Basically ADE is that if antibodies are not specific to the virus the virus will use the antibodies to enter cells and enhance disease. This we haven’t seen with COVID so far but I am afraid this is only because so far the vaccine is very specific for COVID. Once escape mutants arise then ADE will be a problem.

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[DrMetal]

There is an interesting study from Nature Medicine 2015 that I was looking at. This is a basic science article but worth the read. This study basically shows what Wuhan Institute of Virology was up to in 2015 (approved and funded by NIH and NIAID). The virus they created is eerily similar to COVID -19.

Basically what they created was a hybrid virus composed of the original SARS virus with a spike protein of a bat coronavirus. The original SARS virus was very lethal but wouldn’t mutate. This hybrid virus would.

This hybrid virus would:

• Kill older animals far more than younger animals.
• Become rapidly resistant to monoclonal antibodies by production of escape mutants..
• Vaccine protection would only last 30 days on average and then antibody titers would fall. No vaccine was successful for this hybrid.
• Remdesivir would inhibit viral replication in vitro.

All of these properties are characteristic of the COVID-19 virus.

Last and the most frightening property which we haven’t seen with COVID 19 so far.

Vaccines were capable of causing antibody dependent enhancement(ADE). Basically ADE is that if antibodies are not specific to the virus the virus will use the antibodies to enter cells and enhance disease. This we haven’t seen with COVID so far but I am afraid this is only because so far the vaccine is very specific for COVID. Once escape mutants arise then ADE will be a problem.

Interesting the editor's note on the website:
A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence - Nature Medicine

"30 March 2020 Editors’ note, March 2020: We are aware that this article is being used as the basis for unverified theories that the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was engineered. There is no evidence that this is true; scientists believe that an animal is the most likely source of the coronavirus."

It's too bad the Chinese didn't let us investigate this thoroughly, until some 14 months later. That's like trying to investigate for arson at the site of fire well after all of the debris has been cleaned up and a new house built.

 

[Nephro critical care]

Interesting the editor's note on the website:
A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence - Nature Medicine

"30 March 2020 Editors’ note, March 2020: We are aware that this article is being used as the basis for unverified theories that the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was engineered. There is no evidence that this is true; scientists believe that an animal is the most likely source of the coronavirus."

It's too bad the Chinese didn't let us investigate this thoroughly, until some 14 months later. That's like trying to investigate for arson at the site of fire well after all of the debris has been cleaned up and a new house built.

I don't believe that the editorial board of Nature Medicine made a balanced comment. I think this study is being intentionally suppressed.

 

[chessknt]

I don't believe that the editorial board of Nature Medicine made a balanced comment. I think this study is being intentionally suppressed.

To which I would ask so what? Let’s assume China engineered COVID 19 and intentionally released it. What do you think anyone anywhere is going to be able to do about it? They openly commit genocide, hack our infrastructure, and disappear dissidents and we still do business with them because there is no other choice. It is a fantasy to think that any response to this would have a better result than business as usual.

 

[Nephro critical care]

To which I would ask so what? Let’s assume China engineered COVID 19 and intentionally released it. What do you think anyone anywhere is going to be able to do about it? They openly commit genocide, hack our infrastructure, and disappear dissidents and we still do business with them because there is no other choice. It is a fantasy to think that any response to this would have a better result than business as usual.

Here's the thing. China didn't do it. China wouldn't have the brains to make this virus. China is not known for research/innovation. We are. COVID was made in the USA. The bat lady Zhengli-Li Shi just supplied us the bat coronavirus spike. We constructed the virus by splicing the bat coronavirus with the SARS COVID-1. We were irresponsible enough to send some copies of this hybrid Frankenstein monster to China and those *****s let it escape.

China bears blame for incompetence in letting it escape. And for dishonesty by not letting the world know that there was a biohazard leak. If in January 2020 they had let the world know there was a bioweapon on the loose the world would have taken it more seriously.

 

[Nephro critical care]

Based on this study I predict that that current monoclonal antibodies used are already useless. Antibody dependent enhancement of disease will be a problem with current vaccines within a couple of months. There will need to be a Omicron specific booster.

 

[DrMetal]

To which I would ask so what? Let’s assume China engineered COVID 19 and intentionally released it. What do you think anyone anywhere is going to be able to do about it? They openly commit genocide, hack our infrastructure, and disappear dissidents and we still do business with them because there is no other choice. It is a fantasy to think that any response to this would have a better result than business as usual.

You make an excellent point. I certainly don't think we'd go to war over it. And if the Wuhan lab was the source, I don't think it was an intentional leak, more likely accidental.

In China right now, with respect to basic science research, it's the 'Wild West'. From CRISPR babies, to unregulated hot virology labs, animal labs, reports of even unsanctioned human experimentation . . . anything seems to go. They want it this way, b/c they're trying to become a scientific juggernaut that can compete with the U.S. (in the same way U.S. basic science research was very unregulated in the early 20th century, to catch up to Europe).

If proven that the Wuhan lab was the source, maybe the international community could put immense pressure on China to regulate itself better . . . maybe, I know it's a stretch.

 

[chessknt]

You make an excellent point. I certainly don't think we'd go to war over it. And if the Wuhan lab was the source, I don't think it was an intentional leak, more likely accidental.

In China right now, with respect to basic science research, it's the 'Wild West'. From CRISPR babies, to unregulated hot virology labs, animal labs, reports of even unsanctioned human experimentation . . . anything seems to go. They want it this way, b/c they're trying to become a scientific juggernaut that can compete with the U.S. (in the same way U.S. basic science research was very unregulated in the early 20th century, to catch up to Europe).

If proven that the Wuhan lab was the source, maybe the international community could put immense pressure on China to regulate itself better . . . maybe, I know it's a stretch.

I think we all know they wouldn’t do anything and everyone would keep doing business with them because there is no alternative. A pointless exercise to ponder about its Chinese origins because it will have no meaningful effect on the world.

 

[DrMetal]

I think we all know they wouldn’t do anything and everyone would keep doing business with them because there is no alternative. A pointless exercise to ponder about its Chinese origins because it will have no meaningful effect on the world.

You're probably right. And history will repeat itself. We'll undoubtedly have other outbreaks, maybe one far more lethal than COVID-19 that'll be our extinction event . . .humanity be damned!

 

[SurfingDoctor]

The answer is clear:

 

[Nephro critical care]

I was reviewing an article in Global Times
( Chinese mouthpiece ). I was interested in what strategy they will be employing this year i.e will they go forward with the zero covid policy. At present they are keeping up with the zero covid policy even though COVID has spread from Xian to Tianjin.
China is the only country that’s not embracing herd immunity. If China allows Omicron to run rampant there would be millions of hospitalizations and hundred of thousands of death. This would likely lead to a supply chain breakdown and hit the global economy.
Will China ever go to herd immunity ?

 

[SurfingDoctor]

I was reviewing an article in Global Times
( Chinese mouthpiece ). I was interested in what strategy they will be employing this year i.e will they go forward with the zero covid policy. At present they are keeping up with the zero covid policy even though COVID has spread from Xian to Tianjin.
China is the only country that’s not embracing herd immunity. If China allows Omicron to run rampant there would be millions of hospitalizations and hundred of thousands of death. This would likely lead to a supply chain breakdown and hit the global economy.
Will China ever go to herd immunity ?

I’m pretty sure the strategy is “Report zero cases or Pooh Bear Xi will send you to a re-education camp”

 

[Nephro critical care]

What a dishonest headline by CNN. The CDC study found that for Alpha vaccine immunity was better than prior COVID. But for Delta prior infection was better than vaccine immunity. But totally misrepresented by CNN. Can’t trust anything by media these days.

When the Delta variant dominated, vaccination and prior infection protected against Covid-19, but vaccination was safest, study finds | CNN

When the Delta variant was dominant in the United States, both vaccination and prior infection helped protect against Covid-19, but vaccination was the safest way to be protected, according to a study published Wednesday by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

www.cnn.com

 

[turkeyjerky]

What a dishonest headline by CNN. The CDC study found that for Alpha vaccine immunity was better than prior COVID. But for Delta prior infection was better than vaccine immunity. But totally misrepresented by CNN. Can’t trust anything by media these days.

When the Delta variant dominated, vaccination and prior infection protected against Covid-19, but vaccination was safest, study finds | CNN

When the Delta variant was dominant in the United States, both vaccination and prior infection helped protect against Covid-19, but vaccination was the safest way to be protected, according to a study published Wednesday by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

www.cnn.com

Did they change the headline?

It currently reads:

"When the Delta variant dominated, vaccination and prior infection protected against Covid-19, but vaccination was safest, study finds"​

 

[Nephro critical care]

Did they change the headline?

It currently reads:

"When the Delta variant dominated, vaccination and prior infection protected against Covid-19, but vaccination was safest, study finds"​

They indeed did change the headline. It was previously stating vaccinated immunity was better than immunity from prior infection ; which is obviously not what the study found with Delta. Even less true for Omicron.

In general though the liberal media is still having great difficulty admitting that prior infection is better than vaccination at producing immunity. Now, don’t get me wrong, still right to get vaccinated. Vaccination has prevented lots of deaths. But the truth is that prior infection gets you longer lasting immunity than the spike vaccines.

 

[turkeyjerky]

They indeed did change the headline. It was previously stating vaccinated immunity was better than immunity from prior infection ; which is obviously not what the study found with Delta. Even less true for Omicron.

In general though the liberal media is still having great difficulty admitting that prior infection is better than vaccination at producing immunity. Now, don’t get me wrong, still right to get vaccinated. Vaccination has prevented lots of deaths. But the truth is that prior infection gets you longer lasting immunity than the spike vaccines.

Agreed. I think it's a form of virtue signaling as well as a need to overcorrect for the anti-vaxx idiots. Similar to, imho, the rampant overinflation of the effectiveness of masking (it obviously helps, but not nearly as much as some of them make it seem).

 

[Nephro critical care]

 

[Nephro critical care]

There is some scary data from Israel recently. About 70% of new severely ill patients above the age of 60 are vaccinated and boosted. And 4th shot doesn't seem to help. And this was not the case with Delta. People who got vaccinated were protected against severe illness from Delta.

However if you for a moment accept that the virus is a lab-leak from Wuhan and then look back and study the research that NIH/NIAID/WIV was doing back in 2015 and what they constructed it all makes sense. This virus is going to mutate ; break through monoclonals and vaccines because that one did.

 

[Nephro critical care]

 

[Nephro critical care]

If you look at recent data from Israel ; if you are young less than 60 ; you are reasonably protected from Omicron from serious illness. But after 60 ; protection drops significantly against severe illness and is especially marked in people greater than 80.

 

[Nephro critical care]

What I don’t understand is why China persists with the zero COVID strategy while the rest of the world is learning to live with the virus.It’s a tremendous hit to their economy and a huge inconvenience to their population. What is it that they know that we don’t ?

 

[Siggy]

They indeed did change the headline. It was previously stating vaccinated immunity was better than immunity from prior infection ; which is obviously not what the study found with Delta. Even less true for Omicron.

In general though the liberal media is still having great difficulty admitting that prior infection is better than vaccination at producing immunity. Now, don’t get me wrong, still right to get vaccinated. Vaccination has prevented lots of deaths. But the truth is that prior infection gets you longer lasting immunity than the spike vaccines.

Remind me again... what's your mortality rate for people who were getting immunity via the vaccine (vaccine injury mortality)?

What's your mortality rate for people who were getting natural immunity (i.e. people who died from their first COVID infection while unvaccinated)?

The conservative COVID death cult media will always refuse to admit that natural immunity comes with a pretty high mortality rate. If this was about immigration, we'd be hearing about the parable of the snake and the farmer as well as a story about 1 poisoned M/M in 100 and whether you would eat one.

 

[Nephro critical care]

Of course the mortality for people getting COVID versus those getting vaccinated is higher. Everyone should get the vaccine.

I am just saying that vaccination is not 100% protective against hospitalization and death as it was portrayed to us a year ago.

And this can be predicted if you assume that COVID is a lab-leak and study the characteristics of the virus that was created 7 yrs ago by NIH/NIAID/WIV.