I'm so tierd of SCRUB nurses

[smq123]

I a case where they kept putting Raytecs in the patient during a laparoscopic Nissen and a chole too. The circulator just kept a running tally of laps actually IN the patient on the board.

In one case, one was hiding towards the end of the case, so they had to search for it for a little bit.

I agree, in a few rare cases, they will insert laps in the patient during laparoscopic/robotic procedures. In that case, the circulator generally keeps track of the # of laps on the white board.

But in your average, run-of-the-mill lap chole? It's generally not a concern.

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[Scaredshizzles]

I a case where they kept putting Raytecs in the patient during a laparoscopic Nissen and a chole too. The circulator just kept a running tally of laps actually IN the patient on the board.

In one case, one was hiding towards the end of the case, so they had to search for it for a little bit.

Yea, it definitely does happen and its not exactly hard to fold one up and push it down with an instrument, it is hard to put adequate pressure on it though so rarely is it more useful that just irrigation and suction. But generally a surgeon who never uses it during a lap chole you would think would remember if he all of the sudden used one during that procedure. I've found the nice circulators and scrub techs are usually just as effective at gaining control over the situation as mean ones...You can be persistent without being rude or taking on an angry tone imo.

 

[pediatricsurg]

I can count on one hand the number of times I actually talked to a scrub tech during a procedure as a student, and that was usually just to say "Sorry" after I touched their tray. Med students are usually far too caught up not screwing up, following the procedure, and answering pimp questions to start asking the about the personal life of whatever random scrub tech isn't on lunch during the case.

I can only imagine how painful it is to have an over-educated tech start launching into their life story as you're trying to figure out how to hold the retractor without your arm falling asleep.

This is another example of jumping to conclusions without all the facts. You might want to watch this particular flaw. I hear it not good to do this when you're a doctor.
I never tell medical students about my education, nor do I rant on during surgery about my life story. Like you said, I'm busy during surgery. The particular med student I referred to treated me like dirt in the OR, he spoke to me like someone would to a child. Later a surgeon who has worked with me for a few years heard him complaining about how I was just jealous that he was so much smarter than me. The surgeon was the person who told him about my educational background. What's worse is later that day he had the nerve to ask me questions about studying for Step I, like we were friends.
I also never threaten surgeons or even medical students with sabotage if they are not nice to me. I have a lot of pride in my work and I know how hard most students work, so I will even try to help them out when I can. I was simply saying that we are there to help the doctor. The surgeon's job would be a lot harder if we were not there. For your sake, and I mean this with all sincerity and no hard feelings, I hope that you have had some very bad surgical techs, because if they are all mean to you maybe you some look at the common factor. I just hope you are not one of those students that stand with their arms crossed (the axillary area is not sterile) or touches things you shouldn't or leans on the patient during surgery.
I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to defend myself from being made out to be just another ranting, crazy member of the support staff.

 

[tkim]

.

 

[indo]

We got an xray on a patient after the count ended up with 1 more kelly clamp than we started with.

 

[236116]

We got an xray on a patient after the count ended up with 1 more kelly clamp than we started with.

Long case?

Sometimes, when a mommy kelly clamp loves a daddy kelly clamp...

 

[Instatewaiter]

A few months ago we had a 5 and a half hour, terribly difficult gyn-onc case. The pt was so obese they had to bring in 2 more complete new sets of long and then extra long instruments. By the end, the instruments they were using were so long it looked like the surgeon was using bolt cutters instead of needle drivers. Seriously these things were like 2 feet long.

Well needless to say with 150 instruments on the tables, the scrub nurse and circulators lost count of the instruments so we had to get the requisite X-ray. It took the x-ray tech about 20 minutes to get to the OR and 10 minutes to get the X-ray. We kept telling her she needed to get further down into the pelvis but she didnt listen. Well 20 minutes later when she finally got her lazy ass to the radiologist and we got a read the radiologist nicely told us he couldnt see the pelvis. So we had to do it all over again. In the end it took around an hour and a half to get the X-rays done, read, and us to get out of there. When it's 6 in the evening the last thing you want is to have to wait another hour and a half for some schumck to poorly do their job.

 

[21isFun]

I had a very odd experience...I was scheduled for a clinical skills seminar the same day I was to observe a surgery. The resident knew to expect me and one other student at the specific time, and that we would be arriving after the surgery had started (liver biopsy). The program director "hand delivered" us to the OR and when we walked in, we were happily greeted by the resident who was doing the surgery. The attending who was observing was also very kind and told us that where we were standing (against the back wall and out of the way, but in view of the monitors) was perfectly fine and then briefed us on the patient and ongoing procedure's progress. Suddenly one of the nurses launches into a fury-interrupting the attending- telling us not to touch anything and to stand in that exact spot and not to move. We were prob at least 15 feet from the patient and mayo. Thank god I had a mask on to hide my grin, because the resident and attending looked at each other briefly before the attending began an entertaining but calm lecture. He was red in the face and asked her why she thought it was necessary to interrupt him when he was talking to us, since neither of us had made any attempt to move it wasn't of immediate neccessity. He then continued that we weren't kindergarteners and that since he had told us to stand there he was pretty sure that we'd comply with his request and he didn't see the need to rudely chastise us in a preventative fashion. He then asked her to leave his OR if that was the way she was going to treat students, and asked her to consult a professional to talk out her anxiety problems and find constructive ways to deal with her anger outbursts. All of this was done in a very calm and kind voice...it was almost scary. The nurse proceeded to leave, and 2 minutes later another nurse introduced herself and told us some clutch info and also apologized for her pal. Then the attending had us come up close (yes we were scrubbed in) to see something on the monitor, and the other nurse politely moved out of the way so we could get in to see. I have since heard from a friend that the crazy nurse does these weird breathing exercises when she starts getting pissed...sounds like she took the attendings advice and got some professional guidance!

 

[indo]

Long case?

Sometimes, when a mommy kelly clamp loves a daddy kelly clamp...

haha. At that point, the count becomes a population census.

 

[SoCuteMD]

We got an xray on a patient after the count ended up with 1 more kelly clamp than we started with.

Sounds silly, but I can actually see the justification. If the count was off by 1 at the beginning (or as they added instruments during the case) it's possible it was off by 2!

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

There was this bitch ass scrub nurse that yelled at me for the following. Everyone had scrubbed including the attending and was ready to go. All of a sudden, attending says, you wanna scrub? I say sure. Ask my fellow student/competitor (this is an audition rotation) to pull my gloves for me as I go scrub. So I get back from scrubbing and the nurse says to me, "What you are to important to pull your own gloves?" She apparently talked to the residents about it afterwards as if they hadn't seen it.


I matched at that program. Who gets the last laugh? I ****ING DO!!!!!

 

[indo]

Sounds silly, but I can actually see the justification. If the count was off by 1 at the beginning (or as they added instruments during the case) it's possible it was off by 2!

yeah, you gotta get an xray but it just seemed funny at the time.

 

[indo]

In regards to encounters with OR techs; This is from a "Parks Canada" website about bear encounters

If You Encounter A Bear

Bears are very intelligent and complex animals. Each bear and each encounter is unique; there is no single strategy that will work in all situations. Some guidelines:

Stay calm. Most bears don't want to attack you; they usually want to avoid you and ensure you're not a threat. Bears may bluff their way out of an encounter by charging and then turning away at the last second. Bears may also react defensively by woofing, growling, snapping their jaws, and laying their ears back.
Immediately pick up small children and stay in a group.
Don't drop your pack. It can provide protection.
Back away slowly, never run! Bears can run as fast as a race- horse, both uphill and downhill.
Talk calmly and firmly. If a bear rears on its hind legs and waves its nose about, it is trying to identify you. Remain still and talk calmly so it knows you are a human and not a prey animal. A scream or sudden movement may trigger an attack.
Leave the area or take a detour. If this is impossible, wait until the bear moves away. Always leave the bear an escape route.



Bear Spray?
Effectiveness is not guaranteed!

Recent research indicates that bear spray can be effective against some bears when used properly. If you plan to carry it, be aware that wind, spray distance, rain and product shelf life can all influence how well it works. Carefully read directions on the can prior to your trip. The best way to live safely with bears is to avoid contact with them.
Bear Attacks

Bears do not like surprises. Try to avoid such encounters by being alert and making noise.

If you surprise a bear and it defends itself:

If you have bear spray, use it. If contact has occurred or is imminent, PLAY DEAD! Lie on your stomach with legs apart. Protect your face, the back of your head and neck with your arms. Remain still until the bear leaves the area. These attacks seldom last more than a few minutes. While fighting back usually increases the intensity of such an attack, in some cases it has caused the bear to leave. If the attack continues for more than several minutes, consider fighting back.

If a bear stalks you and then attacks, or attacks at night:

DON'T PLAY DEAD - FIGHT BACK!

First – try to escape, preferably to a building, car or up a tree. If you can't escape, or if the bear follows, use bear spray, or shout and try to intimidate the bear with a branch or rock. Do whatever it takes to let the bear know you are not easy prey. This kind of attack is very rare but can be very serious because it often means the bear is looking for food and preying on you.

 

[agranulocytosis]

There was this bitch ass scrub nurse that yelled at me for the following. Everyone had scrubbed including the attending and was ready to go. All of a sudden, attending says, you wanna scrub? I say sure. Ask my fellow student/competitor (this is an audition rotation) to pull my gloves for me as I go scrub. So I get back from scrubbing and the nurse says to me, "What you are to important to pull your own gloves?" She apparently talked to the residents about it afterwards as if they hadn't seen it.


I matched at that program. Who gets the last laugh? I ****ING DO!!!!!

Why would you ask someone else to take off your non-sterile gloves before scrubbing in the first place?

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Why would you ask someone else to take off your non-sterile gloves before scrubbing in the first place?

Did you ****ing fail reading comprehension?

 

[agranulocytosis]

Did you ****ing fail reading comprehension?

If you meant pulling your gloves from the cabinet so that they're ready for you after you're done scrubbing, then fine, what you did was cool. On the other hand, if you meant pulling your gloves off your hands before you go scrub, you must ride pretty high up on that horse of yours.

 

[Mr. Freeze]

I woulda got you 6's. Slowly.

 

[smq123]

If you meant pulling your gloves from the cabinet so that they're ready for you after you're done scrubbing, then fine, what you did was cool. On the other hand, if you meant pulling your gloves off your hands before you go scrub, you must ride pretty high up on that horse of yours.

Are you unfamiliar with common surgery slang?

To "pull your gloves" means to pull them from the cabinet. And when there are 2 sub-Is on the same rotation, it's common to take turns and to do "scut" for the other student when it's not your turn to scrub. (Honestly, if I were that other sub-I, I would have offered to pull his gloves for him.)

That's just usual etiquette, and it makes you look like a good team member.

 

[45408]

If you meant pulling your gloves from the cabinet so that they're ready for you after you're done scrubbing, then fine, what you did was cool. On the other hand, if you meant pulling your gloves off your hands before you go scrub, you must ride pretty high up on that horse of yours.

"pull your gloves" always means "get the gloves out of the cabinet"

 

[agranulocytosis]

Hmm, never heard it called "pulling gloves" before. Sure sounded like he was asking the other student to literally pull his gloves off his hands, which would have been a sight to see...

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Hmm, never heard it called "pulling gloves" before. Sure sounded like he was asking the other student to literally pull his gloves off his hands, which would have been a sight to see...

Haha...I'm going to have to try that next year...just stand there with dirty gloves on, look at the other med student and say "pull my gloves, b****!"

And yeah, the phrase "pull gloves" pretty much universally means get a pair out of the cabinet.

 

[Snuffbox]

I learned real quick that the Mayo is off-limits

The only scrub nurse I had an issue with was one that was in L&D- man, this woman got pissed off at me for everything. "Why is it so hard for you to slip your gloves on?" was the one comment I remember vividly. The other scrub nurse on L&D was incredibly nice and I could definitely spend all day in the OR with her.

OB/Gyn was a rotation full of extremes, in retrospect. I'm gonna start surgery soon but I think my skin is tough enough now to absorb most anything.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

On the flip side, I've had some WONDERFUL scrub nurses that would tap my hand with the suture scissors sneekly if it was obvious that I was day dreaming and they were gonna need a cut shortly. Ive found that if you make a little small talk with them before the case, it goes a long way. I don't get into in depth discussions, but hows your weekend or the weather sucks works quite well.

 

[45408]

On the flip side, I've had some WONDERFUL scrub nurses that would tap my hand with the suture scissors sneekly if it was obvious that I was day dreaming and they were gonna need a cut shortly. Ive found that if you make a little small talk with them before the case, it goes a long way. I don't get into in depth discussions, but hows your weekend or the weather sucks works quite well.

Yeah, they do that all the time for me. I've only had problems with 1-2 OR nuses/techs, and I've worked with probably at least a hundred.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Yeah, they do that all the time for me. I've only had problems with 1-2 OR nuses/techs, and I've worked with probably at least a hundred.

See, my problem was (and this isnt the same place as my above rant, was I did all of my surgery, four months of it at County Hospital here in the Chi. The nurses are of the breed where they don't give a **** about anyone including the patients. THey love to watch you fail.

For example "Uh that patient is coding"
Response: "Shiiiiiiiiit, I don't care, Im on break"

 

[Snuffbox]

On the flip side, I've had some WONDERFUL scrub nurses that would tap my hand with the suture scissors sneekly if it was obvious that I was day dreaming and they were gonna need a cut shortly. Ive found that if you make a little small talk with them before the case, it goes a long way. I don't get into in depth discussions, but hows your weekend or the weather sucks works quite well.

Absolutely, most of the scrub nurses I worked with have done that. I've been lucky- I've only worked with one bad scrub nurse.

Small talk goes a long, long way- be warned that it definitely doesn't work for some though so choose carefully.

 

[Winged Scapula]

And when there are 2 sub-Is on the same rotation, it's common to take turns and to do "scut" for the other student when it's not your turn to scrub. (Honestly, if I were that other sub-I, I would have offered to pull his gloves for him.)

That's just usual etiquette, and it makes you look like a good team member.

I've actually never heard of Sub-Is doing "scut" for each other except in rare occasions (ie, someone needs to leave early) and suspect it is not as common as assumed here. I frankly would have had the same reaction, that Buckeye(OH) was imposing on the other student.

Others would be wise to make sure this is common practice at the institution they are rotating at; if it is not (and it has never been at any place I've rotated, or worked at), you will look like an ass ordering your fellow students around.

 

[smq123]

I've actually never heard of Sub-Is doing "scut" for each other except in rare occasions (ie, someone needs to leave early) and suspect it is not as common as assumed here. I frankly would have had the same reaction, that Buckeye(OH) was imposing on the other student.

Others would be wise to make sure this is common practice at the institution they are rotating at; if it is not (and it has never been at any place I've rotated, or worked at), you will look like an ass ordering your fellow students around.

Really?

We never asked each other to do that kind of stuff, but I think it was expected that the students would offer to help each other out.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Really?

We never asked each other to do that kind of stuff, but I think it was expected that the students would offer to help each other out.

Really.

Of course students are expected to help each other out and it should be encouraged. Being a team player is a good thing and I've seen it frequently and admire students who do it well.

But IMHO, there's a huge difference between splitting up a lengthy list of clinical duties between students, or offering to do some extra to help a fellow student out and asking (or in the case of Buckeye(OH) TELLING [and then gloating about matching over the other student]) your colleague to do something for you.

C'mon...walking over to the cabinet 5 feet away and getting your own gloves is not that hard and takes 10 seconds. That to me is not scut, its part of the job and simply reeks of laziness and arrogance when you tell or even ask your colleague to do it for you. I hardly doubt I am the only attending who feels this way and I would have felt the same way as a resident.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

I've actually never heard of Sub-Is doing "scut" for each other except in rare occasions (ie, someone needs to leave early) and suspect it is not as common as assumed here. I frankly would have had the same reaction, that Buckeye(OH) was imposing on the other student.

Others would be wise to make sure this is common practice at the institution they are rotating at; if it is not (and it has never been at any place I've rotated, or worked at), you will look like an ass ordering your fellow students around.

It was common practice at this institution. In fact, this guy, who was very timid, probably would have sat back and let me scrub every case if I wanted too despite it being an audition rotation.

Every other time I had to say, Hey man, go scrub, and Ill grab your gloves. In either situation, I don't understand why the scrub nurse or tech needed to throw her two sense it. The gloves were on her tray by the time I scrubbed and walked in.....its not like it affected here whatsoever.

Every place I've been for sub-Is, we've had each others back, audition or not.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

C'mon...walking over to the cabinet 5 feet away and getting your own gloves is not that hard and takes 10 seconds. That to me is not scut, its part of the job and simply reeks of laziness and arrogance when you tell or even ask your colleague to do it for you. I hardly doubt I am the only attending who feels this way and I would have felt the same way as a resident.

Agree with this - I don't think I have ever or would ever expect a fellow student to get my gloves for me. I've had some circulating nurses who would ask what my size was and get them for me, but I'd never expect or ask for that even from them. That doesn't mean I don't have the other students' backs - I'll always help out a fellow student if possible, but glove pulling doesn't fall on the list of common helping tasks.

Now I would say as a student I would always make sure I knew what my intern and residents' sizes were and I'd pull their gloves for them if I knew they were going to come into a case.

 

[Winged Scapula]

It was common practice at this institution. In fact, this guy, who was very timid, probably would have sat back and let me scrub every case if I wanted too despite it being an audition rotation.

Every other time I had to say, Hey man, go scrub, and Ill grab your gloves.

This really wasn't about how aggressive your fellow student was, so am not sure what this has to do with it, but if it was common for fellow students to pull each other's gloves at your institution, that's fine.

My point was to indicate that this is NOT the case at every institution, and many would see telling another student to get your gloves as a bit odd. Since you will be training elsewhere for residency, its worth knowing what the local culture is before assuming its the same as in med school.

In either situation, I don't understand why the scrub nurse or tech needed to throw her two sense it. The gloves were on her tray by the time I scrubbed and walked in.....its not like it affected here whatsoever.

I would not waste your time trying to figure out why scrub nurses and other allied health professionals seem to make it their business to try and get medical students and residents in trouble. I'm sure your resident thought less of her for doing so, and it didn't affect you at all.

Its frankly almost always a control issue when they do crap that like, IMHO.

Every place I've been for sub-Is, we've had each others back, audition or not.

Fair enough. But again, you seemed to be gloating about the "competition" and how you told him to get your gloves and then ended up matching there over him. The whole point of my post was in response to smq's in which she stated it was "common" to pull each other's gloves, to which I said was not the case. Having each other's back? Obviously and expected. There is nothing worse than seeing students shaft each other in trying to impress residents and staff. I was a victim of that on my Sub-I and the faculty not only noticed it, but continued to comment on what a slimeball that guy was (one of their own students) when I interviewed. And I certainly notice it now when others do it.

Agree with this - I don't think I have ever or would ever expect a fellow student to get my gloves for me. I've had some circulating nurses who would ask what my size was and get them for me, but I'd never expect or ask for that even from them. That doesn't mean I don't have the other students' backs - I'll always help out a fellow student if possible, but glove pulling doesn't fall on the list of common helping tasks.

That's what I was getting at. I would never expect others to get my gloves for me, and was always suprised, even as a senior resident, when the nurses would remember my glove size and get them out for me. I also did not think that glove pulling was a common practice for students to do for each other, nice, but certainly not expected.

Now I would say as a student I would always make sure I knew what my intern and residents' sizes were and I'd pull their gloves for them if I knew they were going to come into a case.

This is nice and certainly appreciated.

 

[smq123]

But IMHO, there's a huge difference between splitting up a lengthy list of clinical duties between students, or offering to do some extra to help a fellow student out and asking (or in the case of Buckeye(OH) TELLING [and then gloating about matching over the other student]) your colleague to do something for you.

Well, that's true. But I didn't get the impression that Buckeye(OH) had "ordered" his fellow student to get his gloves.

If everyone is already scrubbed and starting, I think a lot of students feel a bit pressured to "hurry up and scrub" too. So I think that asking your fellow student to do a favor for you and pull a pair of gloves isn't all that bad. Is it any different than asking your fellow student to explain to the intern why you'll need to be a few minutes late to rounds, or to print out an extra copy of the census for you?

C'mon...walking over to the cabinet 5 feet away and getting your own gloves is not that hard and takes 10 seconds.

Hah, unless you have to work with one of the scrub nurses from hell who make you wait ON PURPOSE just to exert their authority over the lowest rung of the totem pole. Then it can take a good 3 minutes.

[/bitter rant]

 

[Winged Scapula]

Well, that's true. But I didn't get the impression that Buckeye(OH) had "ordered" his fellow student to get his gloves.

We clearly read it differently. Perhaps because he referred to the other student as his "competition", gloated that he matched there over the other student and then was rude to agranulocytosis in a further response, made me read more into his behavior than you did.

If everyone is already scrubbed and starting, I think a lot of students feel a bit pressured to "hurry up and scrub" too.

Understandable.

So I think that asking your fellow student to do a favor for you and pull a pair of gloves isn't all that bad. Is it any different than asking your fellow student to explain to the intern why you'll need to be a few minutes late to rounds, or to print out an extra copy of the census for you?

IMHO, yes it is different - apples and oranges. Here you are asking another student to do something for you that:

a) you can easily do yourself
b) he is not already doing otherwise

If the student is already pulling some gloves, its not a big deal to ask them to also get you a pair. If they are printing out the patient list, not a big deal for them to click "2" for number of copies printed.

But if you are asking them to perform an activity that they were not already involved in, that is easy for you to do, I see that as completely different.

Hah, unless you have to work with one of the scrub nurses from hell who make you wait ON PURPOSE just to exert their authority over the lowest rung of the totem pole. Then it can take a good 3 minutes.

[/bitter rant]

Clearly, there are scrub nurses that are on power trips and do this kind of crap. We've all seen it. (You have not worked with levels of suckiness until you have worked at hospitals without residents where the scrubs have no idea about how to assist a surgeon and get pissy when you try and correct them. /my bitter rant )

But do you really think that if you are there waiting to give the scrub nurse your gloves (which you don't have to do, you can just drop them on their table), that the attending would blame YOU for not already being scrubbed in? If they are THAT obtuse and not noticing that the scrub nurse is delaying you, then perhaps you have a point, but I would think that would be a rare situation.

At any rate, what really matters is to understand the culture of your program and what the attendings expect. Since this was NOT the culture at any hospital I trained at, I would find it odd for one student to ask another (especially if one were timid and the one asking, clearly the more aggressive) to pull their gloves. It would make me wonder how much else he is "asking" the other student do to for him. I have seen aggressive surgery students do this to their more timid colleagues all the time, dumping ward work on them while they run to the OR to kiss up to the attending and Chief resident. This is perhaps why I am so jaded about these sorts of behaviors.

 

[smq123]

But do you really think that if you are there waiting to give the scrub nurse your gloves (which you don't have to do, you can just drop them on their table), that the attending would blame YOU for not already being scrubbed in? If they are THAT obtuse and not noticing that the scrub nurse is delaying you, then perhaps you have a point, but I would think that would be a rare situation.

A couple of the gen surg circulators used to smack your hands if you drop the gloves on the table. Even if you've done it correctly, and haven't contaminated anything, they'd still swat your hands away.

And everyone knew this - the residents would see it happen. The anesthesiologists used to joke about it. Those nurses were never reprimanded in any way until we got a new clerkship coordinator (a colorectal surgeon). The old clerkship coordinator was a peds surgeon, who was usually at a different hospital, and didn't know how students at the main university hospital were treated by some of the nurses.

It must be institutional...

At any rate, what really matters is to understand the culture of your program and what the attendings expect. Since this was NOT the culture at any hospital I trained at, I would find it odd for one student to ask another (especially if one were timid and the one asking, clearly the more aggressive) to pull their gloves. It would make me wonder how much else he is "asking" the other student do to for him. I have seen aggressive surgery students do this to their more timid colleagues all the time, dumping ward work on them while they run to the OR to kiss up to the attending and Chief resident. This is perhaps why I am so jaded about these sorts of behaviors.

Ah, I see where you're coming from. That definitely makes sense.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Fair enough. But again, you seemed to be gloating about the "competition" and how you told him to get your gloves and then ended up matching there over him. The whole point of my post was in response to smq's in which she stated it was "common" to pull each other's gloves, to which I said was not the case. Having each other's back? Obviously and expected. There is nothing worse than seeing students shaft each other in trying to impress residents and staff. I was a victim of that on my Sub-I and the faculty not only noticed it, but continued to comment on what a slimeball that guy was (one of their own students) when I interviewed. And I certainly notice it now when others do it.



That's what I was getting at. I would never expect others to get my gloves for me, and was always suprised, even as a senior resident, when the nurses would remember my glove size and get them out for me. I also did not think that glove pulling was a common practice for students to do for each other, nice, but certainly not expected.



This is nice and certainly appreciated.

No, I was gloating over the scrub nurse that made it a point to speak to the residents about the situation.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

If everyone is already scrubbed and starting, I think a lot of students feel a bit pressured to "hurry up and scrub" too. So I think that asking your fellow student to do a favor for you and pull a pair of gloves isn't all that bad.

This was the exact situation. We are both standing there, everyone is scrubbed and gowning.

"Hey, are you gonna scrub or what?" It takes time to grab gloves, open them, and then go scrub.

Im not sure how this has any bearing on the amount of ward work each of us did.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

My point was to indicate that this is NOT the case at every institution, and many would see telling another student to get your gloves as a bit odd. Since you will be training elsewhere for residency, its worth knowing what the local culture is before assuming its the same as in med school.

This was at the program at which I matched.

 

[Winged Scapula]

No, I was gloating over the scrub nurse that made it a point to speak to the residents about the situation.

Ahh....gotcha. Since you had referred to your colleague as the competition I had assumed you were gloating about matching over him. Of course, you will now have to face that scrub nurse for 5+ years.

 

[Winged Scapula]

This was the exact situation. We are both standing there, everyone is scrubbed and gowning.

"Hey, are you gonna scrub or what?" It takes time to grab gloves, open them, and then go scrub.

Yes, about 10 seconds to grab your own gloves and open them. This argument does not hold water.

Im not sure how this has any bearing on the amount of ward work each of us did.

It doesn't. smq was asking about why I find the act of asking another student to do it for you upsetting and I stated that, IMHO, because asking other students to get your gloves was NOT standard practice, I have observed more aggressive students (which you described yourself as) bully more timid students, and effectively do less ward work in an attempt to spend more time in the OR. Therefore, I was extrapolating to the situation in which a more aggressive student asks the more timid student to get his gloves while the former scrubs in.

I was not stating that this was the case with you, only that I have seen it more than once. You may assume your motives were pure but you cannot assume that those observing you found them to be so.

 

[diosa428]

Yes, about 10 seconds to grab your own gloves and open them. This argument does not hold water.

That actually depends upon where you are... our ORs surround a central room with several hallways that connect all the ORs to the room, and the gloves, gowns, surgical instruments, etc, are all on carts in the hallways and in the central room. So where the gloves are relative to your OR always changes, assuming you are not always in the same OR. It would always take me a couple of minutes of wandering to locate the closest gloves, and then if your size wasn't there in the right type of glove, you'd have to go wandering around again to find another cart of gloves. This was particularly a pain when working with an attending who insisted you double glove in two gloves of different colors so you could tell if the first pair broke.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Yes, about 10 seconds to grab your own gloves and open them. This argument does not hold water.

Clearly this isn't going anywhere. Ill agree to disagree.

Oh, and one more comment. This co-student of mine left me high and dry with regards to ward work. We were on trauma calls 6/7 nights, the residents switch, but since it was an audition, we took all of those nights. One night we went to sleep at 330 and were going to start pre-rounding at 430. Guess who didn't show up? It wasn't me.

 

[Winged Scapula]

That actually depends upon where you are... our ORs surround a central room with several hallways that connect all the ORs to the room, and the gloves, gowns, surgical instruments, etc, are all on carts in the hallways and in the central room. So where the gloves are relative to your OR always changes, assuming you are not always in the same OR. It would always take me a couple of minutes of wandering to locate the closest gloves, and then if your size wasn't there in the right type of glove, you'd have to go wandering around again to find another cart of gloves. This was particularly a pain when working with an attending who insisted you double glove in two gloves of different colors so you could tell if the first pair broke.

That's clearly outside of the range of normal, at least in the multiple hospitals I've worked in and work in now but if that is your experience, then I will defer to it as the norm for you.

Clearly this isn't going anywhere. Ill agree to disagree.

Oh, and one more comment. This co-student of mine left me high and dry with regards to ward work. We were on trauma calls 6/7 nights, the residents switch, but since it was an audition, we took all of those nights. One night we went to sleep at 330 and were going to start pre-rounding at 430. Guess who didn't show up? It wasn't me.

Again, this wasn't about YOU. If it takes you more than 10 seconds to get your gloves, than you clearly have an aberrant experience. I'll wager I've worked in substantially more hospitals than you have and in EVERY single one the gloves were in a cabinet right there in the room. I also believe you that your colleague wasn't as hard of a worker as you were although this has nothing to do with my argument.

But MY POINT WAS, in reference to smq's statement that students pulling each other's gloves was commonplace, was that it is NOT, and that those reading this would be well advised to understand the local culture of the program they are at. Since it was not commonplace at any program I ever trained in or worked at, it would be seen in a negative fashion.

This falls under the same rubric that at some programs interns and students aren't allowed to wear "designer" OR caps, or tie one handed knots, or what have you. The rules do not necessarily translate across programs.

 

[ThinkTooMuch]

are there negative consequences for a resident who tells a nurse that he doesn't appreciate the way he/she is treating the patient?

 

[ThinkTooMuch]

most med students come in with the attitude that they are better than any non-doctor staff in the room. Maybe its your attitude or lack of knowledge of your place in the OR. Most med students treat me like an idiot, like I don't know what I'm doing. It's not until they find out that I am also a med student, not to mention I already have a PhD, that they start to treat me nicely.

wow im gonna have fun in med school. ill be the guy openly making fun of you because you think, as a soon to be doctor, you are Gods gift to man.

 

[circulus vitios]

wow im gonna have fun in med school. ill be the guy openly making fun of you because you think, as a soon to be doctor, you are Gods gift to man.

If you're talking to pediatricsurg, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. And you're not even in medical school yet?

 

[45408]

are there negative consequences for a resident who tells a nurse that he doesn't appreciate the way he/she is treating the patient?

Eh, the nurse might hassle you or talk trash behind your back, but if the nurse was doing something wrong/inappropriate, no, the resident wouldn't get in trouble.

 

[ThinkTooMuch]

If you're talking to pediatricsurg, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. And you're not even in medical school yet?

No Im not talking TO him. Talking about people he describes in his post.

 

[careerstudent]

Boy you folks are brutal and scary all in one shot. I haad no idea sites like this existed stumbled on it by accident but please do remind me not to get sick any were some of you folks are gonna practice. You got a scrub here that admits she contaminates and doesnt say anything oh yeah im jumping up and down here waiting to be on her table. Got another that wants to go around punching staff in the face got to say im next in that line for him. This way when he is done i can grab, yeah you guys know the guy you folks hate, the lawyer, to sue his ass for assualt. Oh but wait lets all just throw sterlie technique out the window cause you folks, that are going to be drs someday, dont think infection and consquences seem to be important. And to think i thought we all went into the medical field because we cared about the patients how stupid of me!!!

 

[Jamers]

Boy you folks are brutal and scary all in one shot. I haad no idea sites like this existed stumbled on it by accident but please do remind me not to get sick any were some of you folks are gonna practice. You got a scrub here that admits she contaminates and doesnt say anything oh yeah im jumping up and down here waiting to be on her table. Got another that wants to go around punching staff in the face got to say im next in that line for him. This way when he is done i can grab, yeah you guys know the guy you folks hate, the lawyer, to sue his ass for assualt. Oh but wait lets all just throw sterlie technique out the window cause you folks, that are going to be drs someday, dont think infection and consquences seem to be important. And to think i thought we all went into the medical field because we cared about the patients how stupid of me!!!

I think if they say "folks" one more time, I might puke.

An aside and back on topic with this thread: I have found that the agreeability of scrub nurses will vary with where you are. At the small hospital where I did OB/GYN they were amazingly nice. At the larger hospital I am doing my surgery rotation at, you could take out their mother for a nice sea food dinner and they would still find a way to be cocky and make inappropriate comments behind your back. I for one am glad I have no interest in surgery as I don't think I could deal with that personality type for the rest of my life.