I hate residents

[Tired]

If a student made you feel puny it would make you a better resident probably, MAKES you look bad if you don't know enough to take care of patients and are just scrapping by in residency. Attendings like whoever is on their game, is interested, and who is focused on taking care of the patient, some residents just aren't and they deserved to get their @##@@ handed to them.

Strangely, I agree with you 100%.

It's all just a game. A resident getting burned by a student deserves it.

You can't hold students to a standard of behavior that we rapidly give up once we hit internship.

Of course, if the student misreads their chief or attending, and gets a backhand for acting uppity, then they shouldn't cry about it.

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[DarthNeurology]

Strangely, I agree with you 100%.

It's all just a game. A resident getting burned by a student deserves it.

You can't hold students to a standard of behavior that we rapidly give up once we hit internship.

Of course, if the student misreads their chief or attending, and gets a backhand for acting uppity, then they shouldn't cry about it.

Yes, you can't act upitty as a student if you answer a pimp question a resident can not, i.e. you can act all superior to the resident, most of the time I just feel ashamed for the resident/intern, it is all just a game, but it makes the attending raise an eyebrow if the student can answer 85% of the quesitons and the intern answers 20% and doesn't seem to care. . .guess who the eyebrow is raised at. So it is a game that has consequences if you don't know how to play it. Many times I have answered questions resident can't and it is OK, if you do it with an attitude of interest in intellectual discourse it is ok. Most of the time the resident doesn't care if they get their @#$@@ handed to them because they are categorical, but they sure look awake after that and try to prove their knowledge the next day, . . .

 

[DrDre311]

You mean low marks for having the audacity to read more than my resident who drunk his way through medical school and residency and barely passed his boards type of low mark? If making people look stupid is unprofessional then fire 85% of attending out there. If a student made you feel puny it would make you a better resident probably, MAKES you look bad if you don't know enough to take care of patients and are just scrapping by in residency. Attendings like whoever is on their game, is interested, and who is focused on taking care of the patient, some residents just aren't and they deserved to get their @##@@ handed to them. I seriously don't do it on purpose actually, I had an idiotic resident who would constantly pimp me and I could answer his questions, and HAD to bring up how he was @#$#$## up the care of a patient for the patient's good. Get real if you think anyone acts this way, but it is a load of garbage if you think that residents are so superior to med students they shouldn't be pimped, they should be as many just don't study #$## I don't like pathetic little residents who are like little moldy rotten pieces of cheese filled with rat excrement who harass and piss on med students who care to study and then go out and drink 24/7. We don't have residents grade us at our school because they recognize how residents are generally a low form of life that couldn't evaluate when to change the oil in their car. Residents haven't earned any deference or respect like physicians y'all have little clinical reputation.

For several reasons which are clear to everyone reading this thread, I'm glad I didn't go to your med school or match at a program involved with your med school. Everybody has ****ty residents at some point. You just gotta roll with it instead of allowing your inner psychosis to be revealed.

 

[Top Gun]

You mean low marks for having the audacity to read more than my resident who drunk his way through medical school and residency and barely passed his boards type of low mark? If making people look stupid is unprofessional then fire 85% of attending out there. If a student made you feel puny it would make you a better resident probably, MAKES you look bad if you don't know enough to take care of patients and are just scrapping by in residency. Attendings like whoever is on their game, is interested, and who is focused on taking care of the patient, some residents just aren't and they deserved to get their @##@@ handed to them. I seriously don't do it on purpose actually, I had an idiotic resident who would constantly pimp me and I could answer his questions, and HAD to bring up how he was @#$#$## up the care of a patient for the patient's good. Get real if you think anyone acts this way, but it is a load of garbage if you think that residents are so superior to med students they shouldn't be pimped, they should be as many just don't study #$## I don't like pathetic little residents who are like little moldy rotten pieces of cheese filled with rat excrement who harass and piss on med students who care to study and then go out and drink 24/7. We don't have residents grade us at our school because they recognize how residents are generally a low form of life that couldn't evaluate when to change the oil in their car. Residents haven't earned any deference or respect like physicians y'all have little clinical reputation.

If you're able to answer a question that the resident cannot, or if the resident is endangering patient care, then that's different. It shows that you're smart, that you care, and that you're interested. But if you do something like pimp the resident in front of an attending, that that is what I would call unprofessional. I got the impression that you were talking about pimping residents in front of an attending.

 

[colbgw02]

Sounds like Darth just has crappy residents.

 

[Samoa]

We have a student on my service right now. I think I've run across him twice in the last week. He claims to be following an ICU patient, but I have yet to see him present the patient in question (interns don't follow ICU patients, and students don't present them). Very slick of him, I must say.

And that's fine by me. I've just recently learned what Shem meant by "find me a student who only doubles my work..." Up till now, it's been a fairly even trade, but now is when all the surgery gunners (and the surgery haters) are doing their rotations. And lately I just don't have the time or patience to do my own work AND explain what I'm doing to someone who is only trying to brown-nose me for stellar (or a passing) grade anyway.

Conversely, there are students from earlier this year whom I still enjoy running into when they're on other services around the hospital. Back then we were all shiny new interns and third years, still with vestiges of a summer tan, and I actually enjoyed working with them.

 

[Strength&Speed]

Another popular one is the myth that meperidine is less "spasmogenic" than other narcotics when treating pancreatic pain. Just another example of knee-jerk dogma.

On that note...how about postmenopausal estrogen....women have less heart attacks--so give them estrogen right? wrong. more heart attacks and more strokes. Why? Who the f... knows, but its true.

Also, bblockers sound like a good idea around surgery time because they reduce arrhythmias and MI's, and one study showed that. Unfortunately, what the expanded study didn't show was that MORE people died secondary to hypotension and strokes. Whoops. Theory is sh.t compared to real life results.

 

[Strength&Speed]

Just bring the residents down to your level:i.e. they will make you part of the team when they realize that if you are a worm's belly button they are 1/2 inch off the ground:

1. So why did you "choose" internal medicine, family practice here? (Works if not MGH, i.e. makes residents make up something if their first choice was not your school, also let's them think of place as your school not where they do residency)

2. So are you able to pay off some of your loans with your resident's salary? (Rubs nose that they aren't valued as an attending and reminds them of how close they are to med school).

3. Did you survive internship well? (This is fun as it gives 'em flashbacks)

4. How did you do well on inservice exams? (Makes the so-so resident get red under the collar)

5. Do you think you would get fellowship x? (Makes em' happy that you "care" about their career and also reminds them their trial of fire is not over).

6. Ask chief resident if they would do a chief year over again. (Most can't answer intelligently and you become their life guru).

When they are vulnerable, then you ask to see more patients, do more stuff and you can but them out of conversations between you and attending without a problem. Face it, residents compete with us students for 'face time' with the attending, I guess what I did was relatively mean to residents, but at least I got my face time and when having a conversation with attending the little ole' resident can just sit there watch like a mouse and even be ignored if they are not on their game. Residents are not your friends they are like bishops or knights in chess, i.e. people to appease, learn from their mistakes, and steal patients from them and humiliate inocently when they are not on their game, other students are pawns to steal patients from, you are a queen/king and the other king/queen of the other color is the attending, you win when more people agree with your management plan and support you, end of story, when you can check-mate the attending you are recognized as an equal of sorts and get an honor. Really, I didn't care what residents think of me (or at least not nearly as much as attendings) as they are just something to be maneuvered to 1. take great care of patients 2. help me learn a little 3. to maneuver away from sucking my time with pointless social conversation and to maneuver away from attendings so I get more face time

Best Rotation:

1. Resident One (Knight) is put in their place by Darth's good knowledge and listens sans interupting Darth during rounds and likes Darth's presentations he offers to do. Neutralized, and ally to box in the attending.

2. Resident Two, doesn't like or really dislike Darth, but is marginalized from conversations with attendings by Darth and respect Darth extra work and humiliated by Darth who knew x about their patient so leaves Darth alone

3. Three students pawns all like Darth because he looks outs for them, gives pointers to third years and in exchange Darth gets more patients.

End Game - Resident one here, resident two there, a couple pawns over here and check-mate

I started out being nice like a little daisy flower, but you get trampled, third year is about harassment, abuse and intimidation, and if you complain it looks like you want to close the NFL and have everybody play volleyball. Time spent being nice is wasted, you have to be admired like a flower, but have thorns as well that stick in resident's sides, like a rose, better to be admired and feared.

Darth, you have obviously been traumatized in the past, and apparently have some very severe POWER issues. Everything in life is competitive for you, I presume. Also, you are very oversensitive to criticism and status. Trust me, not everyone is trying to keep everyone else down or humiliate them. You overestimate how nefarious everyone is in the whole process. I suggest counseling, big time. Print this post out and bring it. Seriously.

 

[SLUser11]

Yes, you can't act upitty as a student if you answer a pimp question a resident can not, i.e. you can act all superior to the resident, most of the time I just feel ashamed for the resident/intern, it is all just a game.....

You act like these residents killed your father and slept with your mother.

Some people suck, but throughout your training, you are going to encounter people that suck, so don't let it get your panties in such a bunch.

Also, don't assume that you are looking that good on rounds. To me you sound overconfident with a crappy attitude. I wouldn't be surprised if your staff feels the same way about you.

Maybe it's because I managed to fit some reading in between beers, but I seriously doubt you would keep that attitude if we got together.

Also, bblockers sound like a good idea around surgery time because they reduce arrhythmias and MI's, and one study showed that. Unfortunately, what the expanded study didn't show was that MORE people died secondary to hypotension and strokes. Whoops. Theory is sh.t compared to real life results.

Are you suggesting that perioperative beta blockade is a bad idea in a high risk population? Are you suggesting that there's only one paper showing benefit? I'd like to see your sources.......

 

[Llenroc]

We have a student on my service right now. I think I've run across him twice in the last week. He claims to be following an ICU patient, but I have yet to see him present the patient in question (interns don't follow ICU patients, and students don't present them). Very slick of him, I must say.

What's so slick about it? If the student has no responsibilities for that patient, then I guess it makes no difference to you one way or the other right?

You're the kind of resident that students don't like. You put yourself on the student's level, start comparing the work that both of you are doing. Your attitude should be, "I hope I can teach them useful things for their career in medicine" or "I hope I leave them with a good impression of doctors in my specialty", but they're obviously not going to get that.

 

[Anka]

We have a student on my service right now. I think I've run across him twice in the last week. He claims to be following an ICU patient, but I have yet to see him present the patient in question (interns don't follow ICU patients, and students don't present them). Very slick of him, I must say.

Maybe he's just following the patient. I was taught to follow every patient whose case I was involved with until discharge or until I rotated off the service; that meant I followed some patients whose care had been transfered to another service (e.g., SICU, medicine, CCU, another surgical service). Of course, I never presented these patients to anyone, but I thought it was a good exercise.

Anka

 

[DrDre311]

Maybe he's just following the patient. I was taught to follow every patient whose case I was involved with until discharge or until I rotated off the service; that meant I followed some patients whose care had been transfered to another service (e.g., SICU, medicine, CCU, another surgical service). Of course, I never presented these patients to anyone, but I thought it was a good exercise.

Anka

This is an excellent learning technique. It's always good to exhibit patient ownership, plus you get to learn about postop disease course, complications, etc.

 

[Ypo.]

You were right (obviously). But the fever was less telling than the tachycardia, especially if the guy had risk factors for mesenteric ischemia.

In the past several weeks I have learned to not ignore tachycardia. I had a patient who had nothing else than abdominal pain and tachycardia (normal CT, no WBC#, no fever, etc...) who the whole surgery team wrote off. I even suspected she was malingering, exaggerating her pain (she had a history of vicodin use, etc...). She perforated her sigmoid colon the next day. Really taught me a lesson.

 

[wends]

i know this is a thread on how residents suck....but i just wanted to share an opposite experience. i'm on surgery and this was the rotation i was dreading, but i get through each day because of my residents/interns, but despite them.

by far, the interns/residents have been the friendliest, most appreciative that i've ever had. every time i pull out a foley or help prep the patient in the OR, they thank me. every single time! every day the intern on call thanks me and my other med student colleagues for our help with rounds, even for something simple like chart checking or getting vitals!

i'm totally blown away by how professional and how well the two teams i've had seem to work together. the interns help each other out on the floors, and they even teach us whenever they can about patient management. they let me try an IV first before they try. the chief actually gave the med students 3-4 lectures on the topics of our choosing just to help prep us for the shelf and oral. we're getting a study day before the shelf. everyone tells me to go home and study because that's whats most important for a student.

everyone jokes around with each other, we all have a great time even though we are tired.

the scrub nurses are amazing too, they never yelled at me even when i accidently contaminated myself, they just get me another glove etc. i know that i have been very very lucky and i appreciate the residents that have made my experience so great. and because of this i have learned SO much and feel motivated to learn as well.

so i guess for every horror story there is a counter story. i think i just lucked out because my friends at other sites are having their head bitten off everyday.

just my 2 cents

 

[Acherona]

pathetic little residents who are like little moldy rotten pieces of cheese filled with rat excrement who harass and piss on med students

how does someone even come up with something so deranged

 

[Acherona]

by far, the interns/residents have been the friendliest, most appreciative that i've ever had. every time i pull out a foley or help prep the patient in the OR, they thank me. every single time! every day the intern on call thanks me and my other med student colleagues for our help with rounds, even for something simple like chart checking or getting vitals!

**** can I transfer to your school. do you have milk and cookie time too.

 

[SLUser11]

**** can I transfer to your school. do you have milk and cookie time too.

I think it's funny yet predictable that you immediately clown on the only student to share a positive surgical experience.

There are plenty of healthy learning environments out there. On the upside, they create a stronger interest in surgery. On the downside, some students think it will be that way anywhere they train, and they match into a program unprepared for the rude awakening.

I do my best to contribute to a positive surgical experience with my med students:

1. I lay down expectations at the beginning of the rotation and I walk them through their daily responsibilities.

2. I take time to teach both technical skills like knot tying/suturing and more academic topics.

3. I provide feedback on their performance, and make suggestions on how to improve.

4. I bring the milk and cookies myself, and make sure the milk is warm prior to serving it to them.

Well, maybe not #4, but I do the other 3, and it's reflected in my evals, but there are always still a few people that are determined to have a s@#tty experience on surgery. Usually it's because they have allergies to hard work and high expectations.

 

[yaah]

My rule has always been-- be nice until it is time to not be nice.

Haha. Did you learn that from Dalton or Garrett? Cuz it didn't work out so well for Garrett.


I hated some residents when I was in med school. I admired many others. I just had pity for a lot of them though. I always cut them some slack when they acted snippy or irritating once in awhile, but the ones who did it consistently got less from me.

Truth be told, I got far more annoyed at other med students than I did with residents. Now that I'm a resident I get more annoyed at other residents. Although in my field we don't have a lot of meaningful interaction with residents other than some teaching.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Haha. Did you learn that from Dalton or Garrett? Cuz it didn't work out so well for Garrett.


I hated some residents when I was in med school. I admired many others. I just had pity for a lot of them though. I always cut them some slack when they acted snippy or irritating once in awhile, but the ones who did it consistently got less from me.

Truth be told, I got far more annoyed at other med students than I did with residents. Now that I'm a resident I get more annoyed at other residents. Although in my field we don't have a lot of meaningful interaction with residents other than some teaching.

Dude, HOW are you not a resident yet?

 

[DrMom]

Now that I'm a resident I get more annoyed at other residents. Although in my field we don't have a lot of meaningful interaction with residents other than some teaching.

Dude, HOW are you not a resident yet?

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

He knows I meant

1. Still a Resident

OR

2. Not an attending

 

[wends]

**** can I transfer to your school. do you have milk and cookie time too.

haha yeah we sit around the fire and sing kumbaya while roasting smores....

i had a good time, hopefully it pays off on the shelf. don't let the crappy people you met on the way change who you are. what i've learned from third year is what kind of doctor/resident i do and do not want to be.

 

[Tired]

Some people suck, but throughout your training, you are going to encounter people that suck, so don't let it get your panties in such a bunch.

Why not? He's obviously not getting anything out of the rotation, his residents are tools (unlike the great glorious you, as you explain to us in this thread), why not f*** with them? What exactly does he get out of it by just quietly taking it?

 

[DrDre311]

Why not? He's obviously not getting anything out of the rotation, his residents are tools (unlike the great glorious you, as you explain to us in this thread), why not f*** with them? What exactly does he get out of it by just quietly taking it?

Tired + SLUser -->

Dre -->

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

Are you suggesting that perioperative beta blockade is a bad idea in a high risk population? Are you suggesting that there's only one paper showing benefit? I'd like to see your sources.......

This was part of a bombshell grand rounds presentation when I was on surgery a couple of months back. I don't have the sources offhand, but if you're really interested there's absolutely data on it. If I remember right, beta blockers in high risk pts = OK, in everybody else = no longer standard of care.

 

[Tired]

This was part of a bombshell grand rounds presentation when I was on surgery a couple of months back. I don't have the sources offhand, but if you're really interested there's absolutely data on it. If I remember right, beta blockers in high risk pts = OK, in everybody else = no longer standard of care.

High risk as in what? I hadn't heard this, so I'm pretty interested. We usually leave this kind of stuff to anesthesia or medicine pre-op, so I don't get a lot of contact with it.

So when I get the hypertensive 45yo with on Toprol XL normally, and he needs a knee scope, I'm supposed to stop it before I operate?

 

[MedGoatTX]

Truth be told, I got far more annoyed at other med students than I did with residents.

I agree with this.

And Darth, there are two broad ways in which I believe you can make residents/other students look bad. One is to just do your job better than they do, maybe know more about certain things, and generally come out better in comparison. When this happens, that's just the way of things. There will be some doctors who are better than others. The second way to make others look bad is to view everything as a competition from the get-go and actively set out to screw them. To the extent you do this--and from your posting, it appears you do it a lot--the majority of your coworkers will not like you. Ever. Even if you're a better doctor, not playing well with others will eventually hurt patient care. Either you've seriously had the worst medical school experience in history or you're the kind of person who will complain like this about anywhere you are and who really needs therapy.

 

[yaah]

He knows I meant

1. Still a Resident

OR

2. Not an attending

I'm in my fourth year. Still have to be a fellow for another year.

 

[Tired]

I agree with this.

And Darth, there are two broad ways in which I believe you can make residents/other students look bad. One is to just do your job better than they do, maybe know more about certain things, and generally come out better in comparison. When this happens, that's just the way of things. There will be some doctors who are better than others. The second way to make others look bad is to view everything as a competition from the get-go and actively set out to screw them. To the extent you do this--and from your posting, it appears you do it a lot--the majority of your coworkers will not like you. Ever. Even if you're a better doctor, not playing well with others will eventually hurt patient care. Either you've seriously had the worst medical school experience in history or you're the kind of person who will complain like this about anywhere you are and who really needs therapy.

Why is everyone dumping on him? Y'all act like he can't turn this off, and his only options are to (1) always crap on the residents and get aggressive with fellow students, or (2) always suck it up, take the abuse, and say thank you may I have another.

Consider his original point: the rotation sucks, the residents treat him crappy, and worst of all, they are ******s. Why should he be nice? Why shouldn't he make them look like idiots if they are? Assuming he's not applying there, and he's not getting anything out of it anyway, what's the big deal about his attitude under these circumstances?

 

[DarthNeurology]

Darth, you have obviously been traumatized in the past, and apparently have some very severe POWER issues. Everything in life is competitive for you, I presume. Also, you are very oversensitive to criticism and status. Trust me, not everyone is trying to keep everyone else down or humiliate them. You overestimate how nefarious everyone is in the whole process. I suggest counseling, big time. Print this post out and bring it. Seriously.

Its just a joke, I don't really try to pounce of everyone, I did have an opportunity today (yesterday? can't remember) to correct a resident in morning report (an intern) but didn't . . . usually I feel bad if they are post-call. In the end it is a game that helps the studying keep comin', haven't you ever played medicine jeopardy??? Its all in good spirit, and it doesn't effect your work relationships if done in good spirit, if you took my post literally you need to borrow someone's sense of humor as yours is AWOL!!!

 

[DarthNeurology]

I agree with this.

And Darth, there are two broad ways in which I believe you can make residents/other students look bad. One is to just do your job better than they do, maybe know more about certain things, and generally come out better in comparison.

yeah, its just the way of things, if you know the answer or have the opportunity to explain something to residents while attendings nod in approval of your teaching style why not??

 

[getunconcsious]

Why is everyone dumping on him? Y'all act like he can't turn this off, and his only options are to (1) always crap on the residents and get aggressive with fellow students, or (2) always suck it up, take the abuse, and say thank you may I have another.

Consider his original point: the rotation sucks, the residents treat him crappy, and worst of all, they are ******s. Why should he be nice? Why shouldn't he make them look like idiots if they are? Assuming he's not applying there, and he's not getting anything out of it anyway, what's the big deal about his attitude under these circumstances?

So no one else wants to make friends with the residents at all costs, regardless of whether or not they are ******s?

Damn, why am I so NEEDY?

 

[DrDre311]

I advise not being an ******* whenever possible. Even if the people around you suck, you hate them, and you have nothing to lose, I still advise this.

That way, if you ever need to be an *******, it's that much more effective.

 

[Roy7]

Just my opinion after 3rd year...

In every rotation I've made friends with my residents/interns. We're "Facebook" friends and laugh and talk everytime we see each other in hallways. I'm not at a super-competitive program, but I've learned a lot from my residents and have never had a malicious resident. Some may have wanted the students to work harder, or challenged us more, but they were all - and I mean all - professional.

It's a 2 way street, if you're respectful and polite and eager, I find it really hard to believe that you'll be snubbed in response. Residents are human too - they'll all recognize someone that cares and is nice and respectful.

 

[DrDre311]

Just my opinion after 3rd year...

In every rotation I've made friends with my residents/interns. We're "Facebook" friends and laugh and talk everytime we see each other in hallways. I'm not at a super-competitive program, but I've learned a lot from my residents and have never had a malicious resident. Some may have wanted the students to work harder, or challenged us more, but they were all - and I mean all - professional.

It's a 2 way street, if you're respectful and polite and eager, I find it really hard to believe that you'll be snubbed in response. Residents are human too - they'll all recognize someone that cares and is nice and respectful.

For the most part, you are correct. However, most med students, at some point in their careers, encounter that one resident who just sucks. By that I mean either the resident is a jerk who isn't interested in teaching or having students around, or is incompetent, or lazy, or some combination thereof. I still think it's worth behaving in a professional fashion around these residents--it just makes it easier on everybody than if you're actively trying to gun them down or make them look bad.

You can learn something even from these guys: Most importantly, what kind of doctor you DON'T want to be; and secondarily how to deal well with people you don't like personally in a professional capacity.

 

[SLUser11]

Why not? He's obviously not getting anything out of the rotation, his residents are tools (unlike the great glorious you, as you explain to us in this thread), why not f*** with them? What exactly does he get out of it by just quietly taking it?

As a lot of people mentioned, it's about being professional when you're in a professional environment. I know it's tough for you to comprehend. I'll try to think of a similar word with less syllables....

 

[DrDre311]

Tired + SLUser -->

Dre -->

 

[Ypo.]

I am friends with a few interns. Aside from that, though, I find it hard to be friends with people when they are evaluating you and vice versa. If I only received evals from attendings it may have been more amenable to setting up a friendship. But even considering that, most of the residents I will never see again after I finish the rotation. While I always try to be pleasant and professional, unless I really just naturally click with someone, I don't go out of my way to make lasting friendships on a two month rotation. I'll save that for residency perhaps.

 

[Samoa]

What's so slick about it? If the student has no responsibilities for that patient, then I guess it makes no difference to you one way or the other right?

You're the kind of resident that students don't like. You put yourself on the student's level, start comparing the work that both of you are doing. Your attitude should be, "I hope I can teach them useful things for their career in medicine" or "I hope I leave them with a good impression of doctors in my specialty", but they're obviously not going to get that.

Amazing how you can jump to so many conclusions with so little information. Do you really think you can judge my entire attitude toward students from my opinion of one of them?

The students get to pick the patients they follow, and they are supposed to choose floor patients. Their role is to present these patients to the team in the morning. By choosing a patient too sick for him to actually be held accountable for presenting, this particular student is avoiding work in a very slick way.

It doesn't save even a moment of my time for a student to follow a floor patient, but the student learns a lot by gathering the data and trying to develop a management plan based on it each morning. And you're absolutely right; I do play a role in teaching students. So I get to have an opinion about this particular behavior on his part, even if it makes less work for me.

It's not my job to be liked, or to sell this field to 3rd years. That is the job of my chiefs and attendings. Plus, who in their right mind wants to be a surgery intern? Or an intern of any kind? And I'm certainly not going to try and recruit students I think are work-avoiders. My job is to be a workhorse and get things done, and to teach students the parts of my job that every intern in this field needs to know, regardless of where they end up.

Nonetheless, there have been students I've liked a great deal, and would enjoy being co-residents with. In general, these are people who simply do their job and try to learn as much as they can, and do both to the best of their ability, without trying to show up anyone else. I will go many extra miles to teach a student like that, and will generally make the point that there are moments of fun even in the suckiest days of internship.

My point is this: I may not need my students' help to do my job, but I sure as hell notice when they're not even trying to learn it.

 

[JackBauERfan]

yes I do actually. they are exactly the same. the residents are just expected to make fewer mistakes.

I agree with some of the other residents that this is very hard to believe. I've been in a few different type of systems ranging from university based, community based and whatever crazy based. Medical student loads are less and legally notes can not be written by medical students and be billed for. So for every note that is written, I'm sure an attending is writing a note, or likely a resident? Maybe it happens at your institution where the attending just cosigns, but I'm telling you it is very abnormal. And if a 3rd year medical student load/new admission is the same as an intern, it seems like a weak residency program.

Most of the time I've had medical students, I have to write another note after them because at two of the places I've been their notes can not be used to bill for.

Dont' get me wrong, a good medical student does help me out, but I feel bad and dont' make them do the scut. Sometimes they volunteer to help with discharge papers and random stuff like that and I always tell them I appreciate it.

 

[Roy7]

I am friends with a few interns. Aside from that, though, I find it hard to be friends with people when they are evaluating you and vice versa. If I only received evals from attendings it may have been more amenable to setting up a friendship. But even considering that, most of the residents I will never see again after I finish the rotation. While I always try to be pleasant and professional, unless I really just naturally click with someone, I don't go out of my way to make lasting friendships on a two month rotation. I'll save that for residency perhaps.

It's not like I make a concerted effort to be friends, you're spending 10 hours a day with someone, talking about everything - it's hard not to become friends. With the evaluations, no one really thinks about it until after the rotation - the resident evals are important, but the attendings are the ones that count.

I'm just saying that more often than not the students that complain about problems with all residents - are the same students that have had problems with faculty, classmates, and authority figures both before and in medical school.

That being said, jerks are everywhere, just put patients first, think about how you're going to be different when you're a doc, how lucky you are to be in medical school, done step 1, and nearly what you've wanted to be your entire life - and everything is way better.

 

[Acherona]

I agree with some of the other residents that this is very hard to believe. I've been in a few different type of systems ranging from university based, community based and whatever crazy based. Medical student loads are less and legally notes can not be written by medical students and be billed for. So for every note that is written, I'm sure an attending is writing a note, or likely a resident? Maybe it happens at your institution where the attending just cosigns, but I'm telling you it is very abnormal. And if a 3rd year medical student load/new admission is the same as an intern, it seems like a weak residency program.

I go to school in canada, the medico-legal stuff doesn't apply here. Residents/attendings do not re-write notes on our patients. Sometimes they put a signature under your note to indicate they read it. Students are often first-call. It's our job to do discharge summaries, I've rarely even seen a resident complete one. The workload is much heavier than at US schools, it seems. I only brought the point up because people were trying to justify residents being nasty due to having no time. Last fri on NICU I had 7 patients, did 1 admission, 2 consults, carried my lunch around for 2 hours before eating it and I still had time to say please and thank you.

 

[Strength&Speed]

You act like these residents killed your father and slept with your mother.

Some people suck, but throughout your training, you are going to encounter people that suck, so don't let it get your panties in such a bunch.

Also, don't assume that you are looking that good on rounds. To me you sound overconfident with a crappy attitude. I wouldn't be surprised if your staff feels the same way about you.

Maybe it's because I managed to fit some reading in between beers, but I seriously doubt you would keep that attitude if we got together.




Are you suggesting that perioperative beta blockade is a bad idea in a high risk population? Are you suggesting that there's only one paper showing benefit? I'd like to see your sources.......

All i know is there is conflicting evidence per a recent study. I'll wait for further recommendations. I am not going to inconvenience myself and others until the data is better. We do too much nonsense the way it is.

 

[Strength&Speed]

--

 

[Strength&Speed]

High risk as in what? I hadn't heard this, so I'm pretty interested. We usually leave this kind of stuff to anesthesia or medicine pre-op, so I don't get a lot of contact with it.

So when I get the hypertensive 45yo with on Toprol XL normally, and he needs a knee scope, I'm supposed to stop it before I operate?

I think this is less of an issue because they were on the bblocker to start with (i.e. not starting it one day before the case).

 

[Strength&Speed]

Its just a joke, I don't really try to pounce of everyone, I did have an opportunity today (yesterday? can't remember) to correct a resident in morning report (an intern) but didn't . . . usually I feel bad if they are post-call. In the end it is a game that helps the studying keep comin', haven't you ever played medicine jeopardy??? Its all in good spirit, and it doesn't effect your work relationships if done in good spirit, if you took my post literally you need to borrow someone's sense of humor as yours is AWOL!!!

allright fine, maybe you're not crazy. this actually required some perspective.

 

[Strength&Speed]

Why is everyone dumping on him? Y'all act like he can't turn this off, and his only options are to (1) always crap on the residents and get aggressive with fellow students, or (2) always suck it up, take the abuse, and say thank you may I have another.

Consider his original point: the rotation sucks, the residents treat him crappy, and worst of all, they are ******s. Why should he be nice? Why shouldn't he make them look like idiots if they are? Assuming he's not applying there, and he's not getting anything out of it anyway, what's the big deal about his attitude under these circumstances?

I am generally under the agreement that if a resident is being shown up in clinical skills or management by a student, he deserves it. But if its a douchebag detail that no one cares about, or some 1997 fact on the patient the resident didn't have time to look up, then he's a douchebag. But if you're getting patient management wrong, then it's fair game, i agree.

 

[DrDre311]

I go to school in canada, the medico-legal stuff doesn't apply here. Residents/attendings do not re-write notes on our patients. Sometimes they put a signature under your note to indicate they read it. Students are often first-call. It's our job to do discharge summaries, I've rarely even seen a resident complete one. The workload is much heavier than at US schools, it seems. I only brought the point up because people were trying to justify residents being nasty due to having no time. Last fri on NICU I had 7 patients, did 1 admission, 2 consults, carried my lunch around for 2 hours before eating it and I still had time to say please and thank you.

Based on what you've written about your patient responsibilities this has not been my experience. As a student in the MICU I routinely carried 10+ patients (in addition to covering for the interns when they were off)--functioning as an intern, with only a brief attending note (just as with the interns) saying "agree with resident/student's exam/plan" with any changes noted briefly. I'm talking a short, short, barely-legible paragraph. I have also been responsible for writing 17-20 TICU notes on a given day (my med school was the only Level 1 trauma center for a 100+ mile radius), again with only a co-signature from the attending/upper-level resident required (same for orders). It is very common for the student to be the first one to see a new admission/consult; I carried an intern trauma pager and the consult pager for several services as a student.

I'm not knocking your workload but pretty much everybody with an "I work harder than everybody else, they have it easy" attitude is wrong. The average med student (if he/she is worth a crap) works pretty hard and the work seems harder because they haven't been doing it day-in day-out for years.

I am thankful on days when I get to eat lunch at all. Usually it's just a pack of crackers or random protein bar whenever I can wolf it down.

 

[Ypo.]

It's not like I make a concerted effort to be friends, you're spending 10 hours a day with someone, talking about everything - it's hard not to become friends. With the evaluations, no one really thinks about it until after the rotation - the resident evals are important, but the attendings are the ones that count.

I have to say I think you are wrong about this, especially at schools where evaluations weigh heavily on your final grade. I think that most students work hard all the time to put forth a professional presentation; maybe they aren't thinking about evals 100% of the time, but at least once a day. That includes refraining from going into their personal life unless directly asked.

I'm not saying you aren't this way however. There are some people who are just so happy go lucky and friendly that perhaps it never crosses their mind that they are constantly being evaluated whether they realize it or not.

 

[tussin]

If you hate residents now as a med student, wait until you're a resident, then you will really learn to hate residents. At least for the time being, they are just either ignoring you or not giving you credit.

Once you become a resident, many become so competitive towards you, that they will do what ever is necessary for them to stand out. Instead of ignoring you or not giving you credit, you will soon have your shortcomings pointed out to the nursing staff, the attending staff, the other residents. it becomes vicious. Half the time, they make up bad stuff about other residents, just to make themselves look good.

Here's a bit of advice, bite your tongue when necessary, don't force issues. Hate to say it, but do your thing, keep under everyone's radar, and get through your rotations and residency with as little conflict as necessary. Ugly profession eh?