I think we agree. The data, initially unknown, is now more compelling. I have admitted a patient to the hospital that died immediately post vaccination, from vaccination. Reported to higher levels and confirmed likely secondary to immunization. It’s very rare. It’s not zero. We equally can’t be blinded by our anecdotes.
The article you quote is one of the rare ones that allow comments. As usual, the comments are a great way to gauge the truthfulness and understand the article's bias. This one shows the author's obvious bias;This is taking all comers from the VAERS database which has not been validated for accuracy. Anyone can report a potential VAERS complication.
Peer review of a VAERS dumpster dive
A new preprint study on COVID vaccine myocarditis dives into the VAERS dumpster with predictable and embarrassing results.sciencebasedmedicine.org
Read this before making up your mind.
openvaers.com
Troll gonna troll
How did your patient die?
GSW to the head from a militant anti-vaxxer?
I thought it was ITP, but I guess it’s different and termed TTS.
People can die from anaphylaxis or other idiosyncratic reactions to any medication. We've known this for, what, 150 years now? It's happened with every antibiotic we prescribe; the same antibiotics the anti-vaxxers come in begging to get for their viruses. Lol.
Daily reminder: Thrombosis is 10X more common if you get COVID, than from the COVID vaccines.
Agree. At the same time though, causality isn’t completely disproven. Why a full 2 months out from surgery? Might have just been enough to tip the inflammatory state over the edge. Patterns are the important determining factor, but the data collection is difficult. A bunch of random reports filled with background noise to sort through.
Dude. I get what you're saying. But there's got to be some pushback to these people that think any bad event within 2 months of a vaccine is from the vaccine. People had post-surgical PEs before these vaccines, my friend. And yes, some people don't move for months after surgery, so a PE 2 months after absolutely could easily be from surgery and immobility, alone. Have you met Americans?
I agree. Not every bad thing that happens to someone post immunization is related or causal. Some amount of pushback is appropriate. I do think we often don’t know what we don’t know though. Unfortunately in the age of social media, politicized medicine seems the new normal. This makes it hard not only for the general public, but also for physicians.
There’s one faction trying to politicize medicine, the rest of us are trying to tell politics to stay in its lane. FWIW, I don’t think you get say that politicized medicine is the new normal if you’re part of the faction working to politicize it.
One of the things I love most about Medicine is that it's a pure science unaffected by politics, business, marketing, insurance payers, social, ethical, economic and other outside factors.
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She has been having unilateral calf pain for the week prior to her death and the week prior to her vaccination, so I 100% do not think this is related to the vaccine. Seems highly unlikely that she would die 6 hours after getting the vaccine from an acute PE triggered by pro-clotting factors of a vaccine that hasn't even had enough time for the mRNA to pump out spike proteins, doesn't it?
I know a lady that ate peanuts, then died 6 hours later.
Choked on the peanut and crashed her car, but that wasn't what did it... the MVC was minor. When she got out of the car, she dropped the bag of peanuts and slipped. She hit her head while on the cardiology trifecta (Eliquis, Plavix, and Aspirin) and developed a head bleed. When she arrived and was surgically treated, the surgeon left a sponge in, she became septic, and passed after a tension pneumothorax from a failed subclavian line attempt. The peanut caused her death.
Fair enough. Agree sounds unrelated. Devil is in the details.
Medicine anymore is pretty much all business and politics. The cat is out of the bag and probably not going back. I’m not working to do anything other than FIRE and share my skepticism for medicine. If you want to believe in its purity, I think you are potentially one day going to wake up disappointed just like I did.
You're not banned from discussing politics related to those issues. Those directly affect emergency medicine. The vaccine issue is not directly related (yes, those not vaccinated affect EM by clogging the system, but the reasons why they're not vaccinating is not directly relevant to EM).
jamanetwork.com
This wasn't directed at you, actually. I was jabbing at @Arcan57 (but all in good fun) for saying he's trying to keep Medicine from "being politicized."
I kinda view it as the desperate pre-Luke rebel alliance waging a fighting retreat as planet after planet falls.
That's good actually. Very good. Unfortunately we know the ending. Although, we can hope we're somehow wrong and the good guys win in the end 🙏🏻.
I've heard that this committee vote isn't binding, though. I wonder if the administration will overrule it and recommend the booster-for-all, anyways. They seemed pretty decided on it a month ago, when they spoke out on it. We shall see.
If I’m not mistaken, two highly regarded doctors in the FDA resigned over that issue recently.
Its not a huge shock. Basically "high risk" people get a booster, everyone else let's see what happens when we get more data. Given how conservative the FDA is this seems par for the course.
That is reasonable and exactly what we should be doing. This "vaccines for all" policy is nonsense. We should recommend it for high risk individuals and let everyone else decide their own risk. The fact that I can get a non-sensical "religious exemption" at work, but I can't get an exemption based on SCIENCE for past infection is insane.
I would like the corollary that people who got Pfizer and are 6M+ out should be able to get a booster IF they want one. No requirement, but an option.
No....I'm against all vaccine mandates period. That being said the "vaccinate everybody" is beyond ridiculous. You would probably get more buy-in to the mandates if you excluded people with prior infection or who have demonstrated immunity.
What is a "large degree"? I'm not arguing about decrease in hospitalization and mortality. What is the reduction in transmission of the delta variant if you get the vaccine? I'm asking because I don't know.
As a thought experiment it fails.....simply because we haven't done this with other respiratory viruses like the flu. The flu vaccine in many hospitals has been suggested but never mandatory. I do understand some facilities have mandated them, but in the 10+ hospital systems I've worked, I never encountered one. Most had the policy of "Get vaccinated or wear a mask". Totally reasonable, and a policy we should apply to COVID.
Vaccination seems to reduce the time you are infectious with delta. Same nasal carriage but fewer days with active virus.
www.npr.org
I don't think it is known, but I think that the data coming out of Israel will shed some light on that. They're pursuing a much more aggressive vaccination strategy and have good data collection. However, it's my understanding that they are pursuing immunity levels that will significantly decrease asymptomatic infections (e.g. effective sterilizing immunity).
Somewhere out there, I'm sure there's an anti-vax HCW that is absolutely meticulous with their mask hygiene. What I've observed is that the people that don't get vaxxed mostly do so because they don't take the illness seriously, and thus have absolutely atrocious masking habits. Yeah, I'm talking about you Colleen. With your leaning over me to look at the tracking board while you literally chew on your d%$# nose exposing mask like you're part bovine.
The "fallacy of anecdote" - "I've never seen it, therefore, it does not exist".
Thr biggest hospital system in my city has held off of requiring it because they realize the critical shortage of nurses and unstaffed beds would get worse. Another smaller system tried to mandate it and they are being fought by the powerful nursing union.
