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Actually he is still in power and that is a damn shame. His cabinet and pence need to do the right thing and 25th his ass.
Hospital Employee Fired for Deliberately Ruining Covid Vaccine
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I am sure some of you may have come across video that shows Trump, his family, Mark Meadows and others were partying while DC insurrection was happening. I am not posting because I don't know how authentic it is.
So that is not vent and rant, rather continuous ignorance from a president and his supporters still believes in him and supports that behavior.
On 6th Jan morning, show the strength, kick the a** and today 'healing and unity'. Point is an unfit president has been encouraged by repubs for last 4 years and still supporting him. I would say same if similar behavior by any elected official.
So that is not vent and rant, rather continuous ignorance from a president and his supporters still believes in him and supports that behavior.
On 6th Jan morning, show the strength, kick the a** and today 'healing and unity'. Point is an unfit president has been encouraged by repubs for last 4 years and still supporting him. I would say same if similar behavior by any elected official.
Nah it is called an attempted coup.
Delusional, among other things.
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Should social media platforms & app platforms be regulated like a public utility? Alt-right types forwarding this argument today are all about "what about dem communists?!?" as opposed to how a social media platform is akin to a "medium" for expression. Like what if a single company controlled all book production?
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The trumpers want to talk about anything but what Trump did. Failure of capitol police, trumps freedom of speech being curtailed. Fox is a joke. They just dont know when to stop with the usual bs. Rioters besieged the capitol building, bombs being found at the rnc and dnc a vehicle with 11 bombs found outside the capitol. It's funny how the trumpers turn on each other Lindsey Graham mike pence under fire. I don't know how you all feel but I boycott businesses who post Trump signs. I don't ever see myself voting republican ever again.
Current repubs leadership should participate in DWTS, it will be very difficult for judges to pick winner.
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Absolutely not. If someone doesn't want violence incitement, death wishing, bullying, hate speech, racial slurs, intentional misgendering on their website, that is the website owner's right to not allow it and remove the users who do it.
I caught a 30 day ban on Facebook for violent speech during the BLM protests. Reddit permanently banned me for wishing death on some junkie who bragged about getting a pharmacist fired for not filling narcotics.
You can always make your own platform, app, ISP, etc.
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Apparently it's okay to hurt cops when it's a political cause and not okay when you're trying to loot Target.
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Democrats are centrists tbh. We don't have a real left wing in the USA.
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I will agree with you and trust that you have the best interest of everyone at heart. In fact, I will say it - Democrat’s are centrists.
Will you also agree that “to be honest, conservatives are largely centrists also”?
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Maybe conservatives like John Roberts. But the Republican party has sold it's soul to the devil by being represented by Trump. Trump who appeals to right wing extremists and relishes authoritarian power. And he goes around painting others as extremists, yet himself has acted as dictator i.e. breaking up the peaceful protest to do his photo op back in May at st johns.
That wasn't evident when 100+ repub officials voted against electoral votes.
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And thus exposes the true deeply seeded human condition that is - “I am more right than you” which is simply taking the easiest road. You have heard that the hardest road is often times the right road to take correct?
We either get beyond this “I am better than you attitude” or this will just keep happening.
The democrats are not better than the repulicans
The republicans are not better than the democrats
The media is not our God - just because someone says something on our television set does not mean that it is true and/or in context.
And we need to understand that there is something much larger happening here than what we, as individuals, think is best for ourselves.
We either get beyond this “I am better than you attitude” or this will just keep happening.
The democrats are not better than the repulicans
The republicans are not better than the democrats
The media is not our God - just because someone says something on our television set does not mean that it is true and/or in context.
And we need to understand that there is something much larger happening here than what we, as individuals, think is best for ourselves.
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On the left-right spectrum, I would call Bush/Obama/Biden/Clinton to be center-right. Trump would be far-right. Sanders/AOC would be center left.
S
It’s a little more nuanced than that when one party represents Nazis, white supremacist views etc.
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I am a conservative, and I voted for Donald Trump - and this is how I see it.
Over the summer there were lawful protests which, in some cases, turned into full blown violent riots. I did not particularly relate to the agenda of these protests however, I understood that the “masses” which were on this side were trying to shed light on the injustices of racism and economic inequality. I, myself, have never really felt directly guilty of acting in a racist manner - but I did acknowledge that if “that many people felt this strongly about the voice that they were trying to convey, perhaps it was time for me and my family to address these grievances”. Myself, and my wife, had conversations with our children at dinner and during family time (we call it family home evening) about racism and how we should never feel that we are “better than anyone else”. We had discussions about how we are never better than anyone else, and that our opinion should never make you feel superior to anyone else.
Myself, and my family, did whatever we could to address these grievances on a personal level. Hopefully this helps move things in the right direction.
Now - we see lawful protests, which again turned into a full blown riot. Again, I do not particularly resonate with these groups, but I do acknowledge that there is a massive number that feel like they are also the victim of an injustice. We again are in a position where we can either acknowledge and address these grievances, or we can diminish their voice. If we diminish these voices, I promise this cycle will repeat.
Not sure what’s so “Nazi” about that. Emmet - just because you use big words like, “Nazi” does not make your opinion more superior. It’s kinda like when a husband and wife get into a fight, often times the one who screams and yells louder feels like they “won the fight”
Generalizing - and calling people you disagree with a Nazi, is no different than exercising bigotry/racism.
Edit - PS: you can count on me to stand up for your right to feel the way that you do. And, as an American citizen, I promise that I will always do the best that I can to make everyone (even those that think I sympathize with Nazis for voting for Donald Trump) feel like they have a part and voice in the democracy I participate in.
Over the summer there were lawful protests which, in some cases, turned into full blown violent riots. I did not particularly relate to the agenda of these protests however, I understood that the “masses” which were on this side were trying to shed light on the injustices of racism and economic inequality. I, myself, have never really felt directly guilty of acting in a racist manner - but I did acknowledge that if “that many people felt this strongly about the voice that they were trying to convey, perhaps it was time for me and my family to address these grievances”. Myself, and my wife, had conversations with our children at dinner and during family time (we call it family home evening) about racism and how we should never feel that we are “better than anyone else”. We had discussions about how we are never better than anyone else, and that our opinion should never make you feel superior to anyone else.
Myself, and my family, did whatever we could to address these grievances on a personal level. Hopefully this helps move things in the right direction.
Now - we see lawful protests, which again turned into a full blown riot. Again, I do not particularly resonate with these groups, but I do acknowledge that there is a massive number that feel like they are also the victim of an injustice. We again are in a position where we can either acknowledge and address these grievances, or we can diminish their voice. If we diminish these voices, I promise this cycle will repeat.
Not sure what’s so “Nazi” about that. Emmet - just because you use big words like, “Nazi” does not make your opinion more superior. It’s kinda like when a husband and wife get into a fight, often times the one who screams and yells louder feels like they “won the fight”
Generalizing - and calling people you disagree with a Nazi, is no different than exercising bigotry/racism.
Edit - PS: you can count on me to stand up for your right to feel the way that you do. And, as an American citizen, I promise that I will always do the best that I can to make everyone (even those that think I sympathize with Nazis for voting for Donald Trump) feel like they have a part and voice in the democracy I participate in.
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What? Do you mean to ask if Republicans are largely centrists? I'd say conservatives are definitively not centrists, they're conservatives.
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Fair enough - this is a literal answer to a n abstract concept that I was convey. Perhaps unsuccessfully.
I was trying to illustrate that it’s give and take.
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Not really, Democrats are not centrists. Modern Democrats, at best, line up with Reagan conservatives.
I like the diamond political spectrum, but since that it too hard to draw on a board, I'll just use the line spectrum.
Far Left--------------------------Center------Democrats---Republicans---------------Trump Republicans
It it funny, but ludicrous, that some Republicans consider Democrats to be socialists or communists. Democrats are a solidly right-wing party. Whether this is good or bad will depend on ones political views.
Personally, I'd like to see the US set up more like a parliamentarian system like Israel, where minorities parties of all stripes get a voice. It isn't going to happen anytime soon, because the Democrats and Republicans both win with the current system, where there is very little difference between them (excluding Trump)
Which injustice are you referring to? Stolen Election, a propaganda poison fed by an unfit president?
1. Systemic racism is much greater than "grievances on a personal level". It's much more than you or your family being racist. It's about the system that you probably benefit from not being black/brown. On top of that thinking of how much "compounding interest" minorities have lost out on through generational wealth makes it even worse. Please do some more research.
2. Sure we can give these people a voice. Everyone should have a voice. But I don't know how these people want things resolved. Do they want to personally count these votes? Both sides say to trust the Democratic process and now these groups want to destroy democracy so they can get their own way. I'm not even sure it's about justice. It seems moreso that they're just sore losers...
3. There are literal Nazis and white supremacists in the group that rioted...
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This question is more of a trap to ensnare a debate. I will not argue their points as I was not a participant in this protest nor do I particularly feel strongly about any of their positions.
How so, rather an attempt to understand injustice/grievances. As you already attempted to draw parallel DC events with summer time incidences, which are also discussed with family, there are plenty of cases that demonstrated police brutality and easy to discuss even one has never experienced.
How one can address the injustice/grievances unless spell it out. What kind of grievance is that President ballot is rigged but other elected officials on same ballot are not rigged and wasn't raised when newly elected house of reps took oath at beginning of year? What white supremacy flag has to do in capitol with grievances? What kind of grievances suggests to crush a capitol officer in door?
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Again - many loaded questions that distract from the true context of the big picture. This can be done to the largely lawful protests over the summer as well. However I will not do this because I will not distract or disrespect the true meaning of the movement that took place over the summer. I acknowledged the message and took reasonable personal action to the best of my ability.
The message of the largely lawful Washington protests is obvious to me. The integrity of our voting system is under question. Perhaps, rightfully so - I do not pretend to know if there was, in fact, fraud present in our most recent election. There may, or may not have. And I do not care to address the canned argument of lost legal battles etc. I do not trust any platform of news media - so telling me what cnn/fox/oan/Twitter/whoever says does not really sway my thoughts.
The message is to investigate the full spectrum of the integrity of our voting system. You may be surprised to find out that there is more to the story than you think. Then again - maybe not, but I am willing to make this compromise with this group to open up a transparent and full investigation into the happenings in our voting system. If it turns out there is nothing there, then we can put this group to rest.
It’s as simple as that - I do t have to use the word Nazi, or any other inflammatory term to understand what is happening.
The message of the largely lawful Washington protests is obvious to me. The integrity of our voting system is under question. Perhaps, rightfully so - I do not pretend to know if there was, in fact, fraud present in our most recent election. There may, or may not have. And I do not care to address the canned argument of lost legal battles etc. I do not trust any platform of news media - so telling me what cnn/fox/oan/Twitter/whoever says does not really sway my thoughts.
The message is to investigate the full spectrum of the integrity of our voting system. You may be surprised to find out that there is more to the story than you think. Then again - maybe not, but I am willing to make this compromise with this group to open up a transparent and full investigation into the happenings in our voting system. If it turns out there is nothing there, then we can put this group to rest.
It’s as simple as that - I do t have to use the word Nazi, or any other inflammatory term to understand what is happening.
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Rioters are opportunists, not protestors.
How so? Are you saying GA repub officials and AZ repubs officials wrong? Are you saying GA senate runoffs, which was a memorandum on Trump post- election lies, had problems too? Wasn't this an issues in 2018 mid-terms? How come a single repub congressmen hasn't denounced their own victory if voting system integrity is in question? Voting laws are there and that is part of state freedom that repubs wants (federal laws are infringing to individual and state freedom).
Really what happen to 3 co-equivalent branches of govt? Don't even trust Trump own appointees in SC?
Put it this way Trump sink the GOP along with him. GOPes has to do soul search and find out what is important to their cause, divide or unity?
If you have heard Biden in last few weeks, message is very clear.
Glad you opened up about your position. But seriously, aren't you aware of Trump commission for voter fraud and its outcome? Isolated cases are not mass fraud and that is known for decades. To pretend GA and AZ repub state govt allowed democrats to commit mass voter fraud is laughable. When GA gov opened up state during Covid crisis, he was great person and when he denied to support Trump false claims, he become a villain and should resign. Does that story sound familiar for each and everyone who supported Trump once and don't later for his unlawful demands and lies, whether it is Jeff Sessions, AG Barr and now Pence?
Trump is a cancer not just for GOP but also America. Sooner, GOP realize better for them.
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If the dems stole the election, it was the worst fraud job ever because they lost 14 seats in the house and barely have a majority in the senate. Won't be enough to stack the courts or add dc and pr as states. It was a big win for the gop, but instead of celebrating that, they have to worry about trumps bogus election fraud claims.
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You are obviously well informed and feel confident in the points of view which you have developed.
I also feel the same way about me and my points of view that I have developed - but I just don’t feel like I have to debate every fine point with someone. I’m not trying to get you to think/feel the way that I do. I respect you and your point of view.
I would like to see a bipartisan (non trump team lead) investigation into all aspects of our voting system. I would be interested to see what a deep investigation into the going’s on with machines that are connected to the internet. I agree that small incidents does not constitute voting fraud.
We live in a very complex and “electronic world”. Our treasury department was hacked a couple weeks ago - if this can happen I can’t see why voting machines can’t be hacked. A non-biased bipartisan honest investigation into this system would be appropriate.
And you know what - if Trump is wrong - screw him.... But we should get to the bottom of this and it should not be facilitated by Giuliani or anyone of his team.
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That is how democracy works, you represent facts, debate, learn and decide. Represent facts, not conspiracy theories. I respect different policy views as well, but not outright conspiracy theories when every democratic institute whether it is state executive branch, senate legislative branch or SC of Judiciary system, comprised from various political views had proven the claims otherwise. Now acting DHS secretary resigned too, they are all running away so that don't have to support to Pence in case 25th amendment is invoked.
Yes it is a indeed complex system and society we lived in. There is a difference between 24x7 online system hacking vs changing votes in voting machine as most voting counting machines are offline, ballots have paper trail that states verifies when do manual count. States like GA even has signature verification as part of process.
Part of confusion is states have different election laws, yet comply with FEC, and it is easy for a resident of state A to doubt state B election laws and processes. I don't have a problem with one unified national election vote system but I doubt that would gain repub support as they are the ones who drums states freedom from federal govt.
This year voting system hack won't even help as there was unprecedented mail-in paper ballots due to pandemic and machine reads paper ballot offline, not even connected to internet. When different machines counts same vote with same accuracy, its is not a fraud or rigged rather a consultancy that one should expect.
Only Trump, his enablers and acolytes are drumming the 'election is stolen'. I have yet to seen a single incidence of mass fraud in any state, not just Trump cherry picked states that he lost.
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This is just how, “one man, out there” feels... thanks for talking to me about it. My feelings are not based in conspiracy theory. I am just a regular guy, doing regular things, and I would like to see an honest deep non-biased investigation into the integrity of our voting system.
By the way - I listened to Joe Biden on his victory speech night. He acknowledged the enthusiasm of republican voters, and he said, “just give me a chance”. That resonated with me and I will give him a chance, just like I did with Obama.
There is nothing wrong with an investigation into the integrity of our voting system.
By the way - I listened to Joe Biden on his victory speech night. He acknowledged the enthusiasm of republican voters, and he said, “just give me a chance”. That resonated with me and I will give him a chance, just like I did with Obama.
There is nothing wrong with an investigation into the integrity of our voting system.
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Comments like this have zero productivity value and only foments further division. I would accept an investigation lead by a bipartisan group of non-biased investigators similar to the “problem solvers caucus”. I want to see the evidence, or lack thereof, in writing on an official federal document which would be archived into history.
Through this entire thing I have no idea what this “q anon” thing is however I have heard of it...
Please read Trump appointed commission report from just in last few years and let's know what is wrong with report that needed to investigate further.
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I love how righties pretend to be moderate by saying that they want a bipartisna commision to investigate a nonexistent issue.
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Fake concern
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Yup, they are looking for zebras instead of looking for horses. The most obvious answer to what happened is Republicans voted for Republicans on the House/Senate/local/state races but voted for Biden on the Presidential race. It's not that shocking, a lot of the neocon Republicans really hate Trump.
Yup, that's more like it. There is also the authoritarian/libertarian part of the political compass that goes up and down. Both parties are currently on the authoritarian/right quadrant. I would say AOC/Bernie are on the libertarian/left quadrant.
Ron Paul/Rand Paul are on the libertarian/right quadrant.
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I would welcome a review of processes, systems etc that ensure a fundamentally fair election but this would include the slowing down of mail ballots, etc. There probably be some irregularities found. Heck dead people have been voting in Chicago for years. The problem with Trump's arguments were that he claimed not only problems with the elections, but an organized attempt to fix the results against him with essentially no evidence. Kinda like the Mueller investigation. I wish trumps loyalist would have told the truth about the content of their contacts with Russia. Instead they lied. Did Trump collude with them? I doubt it, but we will never know. However there was something going on.
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I'm confused as to where to legal battles fall then. I would consider them to be evidence on official federal (or state, where applicable) documents.
I get having reservations about mainstream media but where do you actually get your information from then? You keep pushing to find middle ground (which I absolutely agree with, to an extent at least) but how can you expect to when you can't agree on basic facts?
I will have to disagree with Just here unless we are talking about change in electoral college overall and Dems weren't happy how the system worked in 2016 anyway. I don't want prolonged investigation and waste of resources again. Four years of trying to get Trump out of office. I'm not sure anyone in Congress did anything else.
There was a reason Obama was elected. Why Trump was there for 4 years and then lost. If Biden and co. want to spend 4 years of proving how bad Trump was, all it will lead to is 4 more wasted years of doing something useful. These elections are decided by a few percentage points. Do a good job and you have my vote.
You guys do realize that if not for pandemic and the scale of how badly it was controlled, not just in US, but in much of the world, Trump would still be in office. And to stress that point, the turning point was the resurgence of the virus in Sept-Nov. It is highly likely that if the cases kept going down as they did most of the summer, Trump would be re-elected, no matter what you think of that man. He might be an idiot but he lost because of timing. Timing on the spread of the virus. Timing on the release of the vaccine. All this talk and really, in the current system, he lost a few states by a couple of percentage points. Now it is Biden time and I'm all for good governance.
There was a reason Obama was elected. Why Trump was there for 4 years and then lost. If Biden and co. want to spend 4 years of proving how bad Trump was, all it will lead to is 4 more wasted years of doing something useful. These elections are decided by a few percentage points. Do a good job and you have my vote.
You guys do realize that if not for pandemic and the scale of how badly it was controlled, not just in US, but in much of the world, Trump would still be in office. And to stress that point, the turning point was the resurgence of the virus in Sept-Nov. It is highly likely that if the cases kept going down as they did most of the summer, Trump would be re-elected, no matter what you think of that man. He might be an idiot but he lost because of timing. Timing on the spread of the virus. Timing on the release of the vaccine. All this talk and really, in the current system, he lost a few states by a couple of percentage points. Now it is Biden time and I'm all for good governance.
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Those cases aren't fraud but clerical errors because they take forever to remove dead people from the voter rolls (board of vital statistics should automatically share death records with the board of elections) and in most of these instances, it is a family member who lives at the same address with the same name who votes and then their vote is registered to the file of the dead person instead of being registered to the file of the living person.
IMO, the way to fix this is to have board of elections use the social security number as a method of voter registration/verification and used the social security number to classify the files
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This. I completely agree that if not for COVID, Trump would have won reelection. But Trump wasn't a victim of bad timing, he lost because of his own bad handling of COVID and his outrageous lies about COVID. Repeatedly during rallies before election day, he talked about COVID cases being faked by doctors. He downplayed COVID and wearing masks since the beginning. The independents who decide elections, knew that Trump was lying about COVID, so they switched their vote to Biden.
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Ron Paul the civil rights hating doma supporting anti-choice "liberterian." His son is a neocon. He doesn't even pretend anymore.
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I agree - the COVID response is where it started going bad. It really showed me that he is playing games on many levels.
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