help me rank... (All Rank posts here)

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Asterix

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I really do not have a geographic preference, and therefore am having a really hard time ranking these programs. I also never got any strong love or hate feelings for any place, which only makes things harder! Any help is much appreciated, this is my list:

1. University of Wisconsin
2. University of Iowa
3. Ohio State
4. Indiana University
5. Loyola
6. U of Cincinnati
7. Medical College of Wisconsin
8. U of Minnesota
9. RUSH
10. Cleveland Clinic

Thanks a lot!
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  1. Ohio State - solid program with great fellowships in-house
  2. University of Wisconsin - same tier as OSU
  3. Loyola - slightly below OSU and wisconsin. but you'll be in chicago
  4. U of Cincinnati - about as good as loyola from what i've heard
  5. Indiana University - same level as u cinci
  6. RUSH - not a real "university" program, but def solid
  7. Medical College of Wisconsin - i dunno that much about IM at this program, but i have a friend doing ophtho there. seems solid.
  8. University of Iowa - i wouldn't wanna live here
  9. U of Minnesota - i wouldn't wanna live here either
  10. cleveland clinic - i guess this place is only good for fellowships...
 
wisconsin
minnesota
ohio state
iowa
rush
indiana
loyola
cincy
mcw
cleveland clinic

question is, which part of the freezing midwest would you like to live in?


Asterix said:
I really do not have a geographic preference, and therefore am having a really hard time ranking these programs. I also never got any strong love or hate feelings for any place, which only makes things harder! Any help is much appreciated, this is my list:

1. University of Wisconsin
2. University of Iowa
3. Ohio State
4. Indiana University
5. Loyola
6. U of Cincinnati
7. Medical College of Wisconsin
8. U of Minnesota
9. RUSH
10. Cleveland Clinic

Thanks a lot!
Click to expand...
 
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with cleveland clinic so low.

no dinner to get a feel of residents, fellow driven, not particularly impressed with housestaff when compared to other programs & pretty horrific morning report...and this is only one day, but i'd kick myself if i went there and hated it, cos i shoulda saw it coming

take Ohio State first in this group in my opinion and you wont be disappointed, IU was nice too.

i'd go to cc for fellowship though, but other programs send quite a few fellows there from the list i saw...

but go with your gut
 
Asterix said:
I really do not have a geographic preference, and therefore am having a really hard time ranking these programs. I also never got any strong love or hate feelings for any place, which only makes things harder! Any help is much appreciated, this is my list:

1. University of Wisconsin
2. University of Iowa
3. Ohio State
4. Indiana University
5. Loyola
6. U of Cincinnati
7. Medical College of Wisconsin
8. U of Minnesota
9. RUSH
10. Cleveland Clinic

Thanks a lot!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, if I were in your shoes, that I'd change my list much from what you have there. Wisconsin by a mile.... I would move UMinn up to 3 or 4 and would consider moving MCW up to 5 or 6 and CCF up above Loyola and Rush, but otherwise this isn't a bad list.

The most important thing is that you feel good about your list. If you hated Rush and loved Wisconsin, rank them like you have them. If on the other hand, you loved Rush and hated UW but feel like you need to have UW higher b/c it's a "better" program, you need to re-examine your priorities and goals.
 
First of all, you definitely have a geographic preference: you prefer freezing cold and people who are actually nice. That's not a knock, I feel the same way. Love the Midwest. For anyone who can't see themselves living anywhere but Chicago in the Midwest, they aren't likely to be much help (ie. "I wouldn't want to live here" is completely useless in terms of helping you rank the programs.) My list (for other people) would be the following:

1. University of Wisconsin - Great program, great fellowship match, beautiful small college town
2. University of Iowa - Great program, good match all around, also in a small town, questionable urban population experience (population diversity)
3. U of Minnesota - Very good program, Minneapolis/St. Paul = awesome medium-size city feel, LOVE to take their own for all fellowships and considered strong all-around
4. Ohio State - Very good program, good patient diversity, take their own for fellowships and fellowships well-reputed
5. Indiana University - Reputation strong esp for research, good match, FMG+
6. RUSH - Good program, nice hospital/ancillary, Great GI matching, great Chicago location!
7. Loyola - Well-reputed, good match, ?religious affiliation & medical treatment (ie. past issues around Rx OCPs, etc.), Chicago!
8. U of Cincinnati - Good program, FMGs+, marginal fellowship match
9. Cleveland Clinic - Great match in Cards & ? for everything else, not well-reputed for IM training
10. Medical College of Wisconsin - didn't apply b/c of ? reputation outside of Midwest

For myself, I would put UMinnesota #1 because I really liked the city, the people and availability of international electives (UW has no international electives, it was pulled from the program some years ago and they are only now thinking of re-introducing them) and I would rank Rush above Ohio State because of 1) Chicago, 2) residents were super-happy there, 3) I've lived in Columbus before and I really disliked it

Hope some of that helps...
 
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What exactly do you mean by Rush not being a real university program?
 
if you haven't been to rush, it feels like a community hospital, not a hospital that's part of a university. during my interview day, one future chief said that almost 50% of the patients there are private.

rush also doesn't have an undergrad campus (which isn't a big deal, but kind of explains why they don't have other things like workout facilities).

i think rush is probably a step below UIC and loyola.
 
THANKS FOR WRITING ALL OF YOU! I really value all your opinions and you have all been a great help! Thanks again!
 
hey everyone,

having trouble ranking my top 4...

Cornell, BIDMC, UCLA, Northwestern.

any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
bid
cornell
ucla
northwestern


DrRai said:
hey everyone,

having trouble ranking my top 4...

Cornell, BIDMC, UCLA, Northwestern.

any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
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DrRai said:
hey everyone,

having trouble ranking my top 4...

Cornell, BIDMC, UCLA, Northwestern.

any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Click to expand...


Hey I didn't interview at UCLA so I'll leave it out, only b/c I know NOTHING about it and it wouldn't be fair to help you rank a place I know nothing about.

1) BIDMC
2) Cornell
3) NW

goodluck,
 
OK, I know it matters what program fits me best, but I really don't know! Plus my criteria are pretty generic: great clinical training + happy people
In no particular order:

UChic
Northwestern
Columbia
Cornell
Duke
Mayo-Rochester
BWH
UMich
WashU
UCLA
BIDMC
UVA
 
if this is really your list, you can go wherever you like- you must be a stellar applicant. pick the program and get ready to move in june. this is how i would rank them. good luck with your decision, you can't go wrong with any of these programs.

brigham
columbia
cornell
duke
michigan
wash u
bid
ucla
northwestern
uva
chicago
mayo

0382938 said:
UChic
Northwestern
Columbia
Cornell
Duke
Mayo-Rochester
BWH
UMich
WashU
UCLA
BIDMC
UVA
Click to expand...
 
I had a bunch of the same last year. Here is how I ranked them.
BWH
UMich
Duke
UCLA
Mayo
UVA

If I had to do it again I would probably keep them in the same order with possibly switching Duke and UCLA
 
So, let's see how you all would rank these....there's a big blob of 4-10, which i have no idea of. I'd say the first 4, in some order are UCSF, JHU, UPenn, and Chicago/WashU/MIchigan.

BID
Yale-categorical
UPenn
Cornell
Mount Sinai
JHU
Emory
UChicago
WashU
Michigan
UTSW
Vandy
UDub
UCLA
UCSF

thanks!
 
you can't go wrong with any of these programs. you will receive excellent training at all of them. question is, where do you want to live?

ucsf/ hopkins/ uw seattle
cornell/ penn
michigan/ wash u/ ucla/ bid
utsw/ vandy/ emory
chicago/ mt sinai
yale



HiddenTruth said:
So, let's see how you all would rank these....there's a big blob of 4-10, which i have no idea of. I'd say the first 4, in some order are UCSF, JHU, UPenn, and Chicago/WashU/MIchigan.

BID
Yale-categorical
UPenn
Cornell
Mount Sinai
JHU
Emory
UChicago
WashU
Michigan
UTSW
Vandy
UDub
UCLA
UCSF

thanks!
Click to expand...
 
HiddenTruth said:
So, let's see how you all would rank these....there's a big blob of 4-10, which i have no idea of. I'd say the first 4, in some order are UCSF, JHU, UPenn, and Chicago/WashU/MIchigan.

BID
Yale-categorical
UPenn
Cornell
Mount Sinai
JHU
Emory
UChicago
WashU
Michigan
UTSW
Vandy
UDub
UCLA
UCSF

thanks!
Click to expand...
From the ones I know about (can't comment on the rest) I would rank:
1) BID
2) JHU
3) Cornell/Mt. Sinai
4) U Chicago

I really don't know about West coast programs.... but I think ultimately its where u want to end up. If its the West Coast then definetly UCSF hands down!

good luck
 
From the ones I know about:

1) BID
2) BWH (many would flip the order of BID and BWH but I LOVED BID really loved it!)
3) Columbia/Cornell
4) NW
5) U of Chicago (most people would flip U of C and NW, but again I got a MUCh better vibe from NW, residents are much happier, enviro is less malignant)

sorry don't know about the rest to give a 'fair' rank...

goodluck!
 
orientedtoself said:
you can't go wrong with any of these programs. you will receive excellent training at all of them. question is, where do you want to live?

ucsf/ hopkins/ uw seattle
cornell/ penn
michigan/ wash u/ ucla/ bid
utsw/ vandy/ emory
chicago/ mt sinai
yale
Click to expand...

I'm curious, cornell and penn in the same category? Basically, why are you placing cornell that high--is it a location bias? And, also, my mentor (cards PD at a big name place) told me that UCLA/BID wern't that strong? Who knows.
 
Hey, another person having a tough time ranking these programs. Any help would be appreciated.

Univ. of Florida
Case -UH
Cleveland Clinic
UConn
UMass
Mayo Clinic
Brown
Dartmouth
Northwestern
Emory
 
I'd go with

Mayo/Case
Brown
Cleveland Clinic
UMass
UConn

That would be my guess based on rep only.
 
HiddenTruth said:
I'm curious, cornell and penn in the same category? Basically, why are you placing cornell that high--is it a location bias? And, also, my mentor (cards PD at a big name place) told me that UCLA/BID wern't that strong? Who knows.
Click to expand...

I find it fascinating that someone in cardiology would consider UCLA (probably one of the top 3 heart transplant centers in the world with prominent cardiology leadership) or BIDMC (with many of the pioneers in cardiology, especially in EP and very prominent in AHA/ACC) "not that strong". Maybe he personally doesnt like some of his colleagues at those institutions?

And that doesnt even count their (UCLA, BIDMC, Penn, Cornell) overall medicine training which is definitively in that tier of programs immediately following MGH/BWH/UCSF/JHU.

It just never ceases to amaze me how people find ways of making top 10 NIH funded programs that are major academic medical centers sound like they are not good programs. With ACGME regulations, academic programs are more similar than not nowadays anyway, and even among the top research programs you would be hard pressed to definitively say one is better than the other (which is why I always kind of laugh at the whole Harvard/Hopkins vs. Penn vs. Columbia debates where it should just boil down to the city you want to live in)
 
UCLA is hot

great location, brand new hospital, bad-a$$ clout
 
Rasengan said:
I find it fascinating that someone in cardiology would consider UCLA (probably one of the top 3 heart transplant centers in the world with prominent cardiology leadership) or BIDMC (with many of the pioneers in cardiology, especially in EP and very prominent in AHA/ACC) "not that strong". Maybe he personally doesnt like some of his colleagues at those institutions?

And that doesnt even count their (UCLA, BIDMC, Penn, Cornell) overall medicine training which is definitively in that tier of programs immediately following MGH/BWH/UCSF/JHU.

It just never ceases to amaze me how people find ways of making top 10 NIH funded programs that are major academic medical centers sound like they are not good programs. With ACGME regulations, academic programs are more similar than not nowadays anyway, and even among the top research programs you would be hard pressed to definitively say one is better than the other (which is why I always kind of laugh at the whole Harvard/Hopkins vs. Penn vs. Columbia debates where it should just boil down to the city you want to live in)
Click to expand...


Thank you for that I totally agree!! Interview season has really taught me that most programs are the same. I also like it when people say 'top tier', after interview season I keep think "well what do they mean by top tier?" As long as your program has whatever fellowships you have (if that's what you want) and has an adequate amount of patient flow I think it should be OK. Even in terms of NIH funding etc, there is little difference between the top 40 or so hospitals. My thoughts are that it would only matter if you were a tenured attending heavily based on research in a lab. Most resident projects are review or limited trials (3 years is not enough to conduct ground breaking research is it?) For any future applicants down the line really check out the residents/interns and the location. Plus anyone see the irony with people criticizing the US New's report of program rankings but then putting their own opinions of tiers and programs based on their and other's opinions. Seriously I would only trust someone if they were a resident in program X and then switched to residency Y, as they would have the most accurate (barring personal bias) renditioning of comparing those two programs.

If only I had known this prior to interview trail D'oh!
 
Linus2007 said:
Thank you for that I totally agree!! Interview season has really taught me that most programs are the same. I also like it when people say 'top tier', after interview season I keep think "well what do they mean by top tier?" As long as your program has whatever fellowships you have (if that's what you want) and has an adequate amount of patient flow I think it should be OK. Even in terms of NIH funding etc, there is little difference between the top 40 or so hospitals. My thoughts are that it would only matter if you were a tenured attending heavily based on research in a lab. Most resident projects are review or limited trials (3 years is not enough to conduct ground breaking research is it?) For any future applicants down the line really check out the residents/interns and the location. Plus anyone see the irony with people criticizing the US New's report of program rankings but then putting their own opinions of tiers and programs based on their and other's opinions. Seriously I would only trust someone if they were a resident in program X and then switched to residency Y, as they would have the most accurate (barring personal bias) renditioning of comparing those two programs.

If only I had known this prior to interview trail D'oh!
Click to expand...

I'd agree with most things you say. But, you have to keep in mind that the elemtn of reputation/prestige makes significant differences in medicine. Putting heavily basic science academic careers aside for a second, it still matters where you go in order to obtain a solid fellowship, especially if you're interested in a competitive fellowship (cards/gi). You can argue that getting a fellowship at cleveland clinic for cards vs....i don't know, emory utsw, or cornell, or something of that caliber, is no difference. And, in that case, it doesn't matter where you go (within the top 20). But, if you're trying to get a strong academic fellowship, it really matters where you go for training. I'm not saying you're gonna get worse or better training at mayo or emory vs. hopkins of mgh. Infact, one can argue, that the clinical training is probably better at a mayo or emory caliber institution. But, the research opportunities/innovations are limited. And, especially, as you pointed, if you're looking into an academic career (which I am), then it matters for sure. MGH and Brigham aren't going to recruit you from UCLA unfortunately, unless you've spent a few years in the lab during residency or have discovered something novel. Bottom line is, you have to know your career goals, but it's hard to know what exactly you want to do 7-8 years from now.

Also, I want to add, I think it's mostly the people that you surround yourselves with that make the difference. I really think that the people at the really prestigious programs are a little bit different, and ridonculously intelligent, and have goals (not just academics) and ideas that will surpass my thoughts and ideas any day. But, it's nice to surround yourself around those people. You are a product of your environment. Just my 0.02.
 
How would you rank BIDMC, Yale, Emory? thanks!
 
BIDMC and Yale probably have the best reps (for fellowships and such), Emory might have better clinical training though.
 
any thoughts in ranking these programs

mt sinai
nyu
umich
emory
vandy
baylor
bu

Thanks!
 
If I were in your place, I'd pick:
1. Northwestern (great reputation, fantastic location)
2. Case (Also great reputation, but you would be in Cleveland.....)
3. Emory
4.Dartmouth
5. Brown (I dont know too much about the last three, except for solid reputations)
 
If you're looking for pure reputation....
1. Emory
2. Northwestern
3. Case-UH
4. Mayo Clinic
5. Brown

If not sure about Cleveland Clinic. The rumor on the street is that it's very fellow-ran with lots of FMG residents in the program. When you're applying for fellowship in the future, sometimes rumors are important to pay attention to as many Fellowship Directors are farmiliar with those rumors too.
 
Fexofenadine said:
If you're looking for pure reputation....
1. Emory
2. Northwestern
3. Case-UH
4. Mayo Clinic
5. Brown

If not sure about Cleveland Clinic. The rumor on the street is that it's very fellow-ran with lots of FMG residents in the program. When you're applying for fellowship in the future, sometimes rumors are important to pay attention to as many Fellowship Directors are farmiliar with those rumors too.
Click to expand...

Also vaguely true about Mayo, at least per the rumors. However, if you're interested in staying on as a fellow and/or actually don't think that Americans have it completely figured out when it comes to healthcare, either one of these places (cc/Mayo) could move to the top of your list. Both certainly have a reputation for taking care of patients well.
 
How would people rank:

UCSF
MGH
BWH
Stanford
Columbia
Yale
JHH
Cornell
U Michigan
U Washington
UCLA
UCSD
Wash U
Mayo
Southwestern
 
I had many of the same programs and here is how I ranked them last year:
UCSF
BWH
MGH
Stanford
U Michigan
UCLA
Mayo

the other programs I didn't apply to with the exception of Yale which my SO rejected as a possibility. I would do it the same a year later. The top three were really equally awesome in different ways IMHO. if you have specific questions I might answer PM.
 
mac,

just curious as to why stanford > UCLA?

indiamacbean said:
I had many of the same programs and here is how I ranked them last year:
UCSF
BWH
MGH
Stanford
U Michigan
UCLA
Mayo

the other programs I didn't apply to with the exception of Yale which my SO rejected as a possibility. I would do it the same a year later. The top three were really equally awesome in different ways IMHO. if you have specific questions I might answer PM.
Click to expand...
 
Georgetown
George Washington
UCSD
Colorado
Cleveland Clinic
JHU-Bayview
Boston Univ
Baylor
Cornell
UAB

any thoughts appreciated. thanks.
 
I guess I just liked it more and for me the bay area was a big draw. Not going to say anything bad about the UCLA program it seems like the residents get great training.
 
Fexofenadine said:
If you're looking for pure reputation....
1. Emory
2. Northwestern
3. Case-UH
4. Mayo Clinic
5. Brown
Click to expand...

Northwestern, Emory AND Case all have a better rep than Mayo? I don't know about that. I think all 4 programs are pretty equal in that aspect.

Now locationwise, I don't think you can beat NW's great Chicago location. But if you prefer year-round warm weather, Emory may win out.
 
So I'm not as smart as some of u guys, just judging by your posts... however i'll give this a shot anyways and see what you all think. I need help ranking these programs. Like the hundreds of others, I have an interest in Cardiology so research and getting a cards fellowship is a huge component in my decision making.

Wash U
Mayo-Rochester
Mayo-Jacksonville
Rush
Tufts
Wake Forest
MUSC
Johns Hopkins Bayview
Temple
University of Pittsburgh


Any help in ranking these programs would greatly be appreciated!

Thanks
 
MonoLoco said:
So I'm not as smart as some of u guys, just judging by your posts... however i'll give this a shot anyways and see what you all think. I need help ranking these programs. Like the hundreds of others, I have an interest in Cardiology so research and getting a cards fellowship is a huge component in my decision making.

Wash U
Mayo-Rochester
Mayo-Jacksonville
Rush
Tufts
Wake Forest
MUSC
Johns Hopkins Bayview
Temple
University of Pittsburgh

hey buddy,
those are pretty good places!! don't knock yourself.

out of those I think Mayo-rochester, Wash U and JHU-Bayview are pretty good, I don't know much about the rest. Although I went to the RUSH interview and was impressed by them, I'll rank them. Wake Forest and U of Pitt sound decent too.... but I don't know enough about them.

I know that JHU-Bayview had a HOT match list for everything!!! I'm ranking them pretty highly myself. Rush wasn't bad, but I heard it may be a bit of a challenge to get Cards, however, I think they still had some match into it.... look at the match lists, that will be your best guide.

GOOD LUCK:luck:
Click to expand...
 
B767400ER said:
How would people rank:

UCSF
MGH
BWH
Stanford
Columbia
Yale
JHH
Cornell
U Michigan
U Washington
UCLA
UCSD
Wash U
Mayo
Southwestern
Click to expand...

every one of these programs is awesome. go with whatever you felt fit you the best on interview day. rankings won't matter if you're not happy for 3 years.
 
purplepants said:
Georgetown
George Washington
UCSD
Colorado
Cleveland Clinic
JHU-Bayview
Boston Univ
Baylor
Cornell
UAB

any thoughts appreciated. thanks.
Click to expand...
  1. cornell
  2. UCSD
  3. JHU-bayview
  4. colorado
  5. baylor
  6. georgetown
  7. BU
  8. UAB
  9. GW
  10. cleveland clinic
 
so i absolutely agree that NYC >>> LA...I mean...i'm a born and raised new yorker. Go GIANTS!

but I was referring to the training program itself. Cornell has many positives, but on my interview day and pre-interview dinner i asked almost all the interns about the level of autonomy and how much "chasing" of hte private attendings they had to do. they all admitted to it, but they also said that everyone just gets through it...kind of like a "means to an end."

Now with UCLA (now i am NOT a californian)...i thought the location (westwood) was great...prices similar to NY....and I felt there was a lot more autonomy and hands on teaching....I felt the clinical training to be better.

Anyone else with teh same impressions? or am I just loco thinking UCLA would have better training than cornell.

btw...on a separate thread I asked a similar question as to why someone would rank stanford > UCLA. I ended getting a reply but it was simply a guy ROFL. Now i agree that for undergrad and med school stanford really beats out UCLA. But for residency training and fellowship placement I felt UCLA to be better. Any thoughts?


gutonc said:
NYC >>> LA.
Click to expand...
 
DJ LACTULOSE said:
every one of these programs is awesome. go with whatever you felt fit you the best on interview day. rankings won't matter if you're not happy for 3 years.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but if you think you can be happy at multiple programs and one of them happens to be the group of MGH/BWH/JHH/UCSF, go for it!
 
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