Help me, I have no hope

[Etzio]

Im a junior in my second semester of university and my gpa after 2.5 years is a lowly 2.76. This was due to depression, that made me lose my motivation and sent me on a downward spiral for 2.5 years. I dealt with these issues through counseling, and other means. I am ready, willing, and able to turn things around to get into med school however I feel like it is too late.

I only have three semesters left, and even if I ace them, my GPA will only be a lowly 3.19. This kills me that my GPA is so low, but there must some way to offset it, something that I can do?

If I can ace the rest of school, will that strong upward trend with a killer MCAT score at least mitigate some of the damage?

If I transfer to another school now, I will have to spend an extra year there, but I can theoretically boost my GPA to a 3.39 or a 3.4, is this worth it?

Im going to shadow at the hospital near my school, I also plan to take a year off to pursue a public health related research project in China once I graduate that I am trying to set up. Would that help?

Im Chinese, and most Chinese applicants are very strong academically, will the fact that I have a low GPA be even more of a red flag since im also Asian?

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[bravofleet4]

no, i don't think being Chinese matters. What does matter is your EC's providing some insight into what your motivations for entering into medicine are and what you are like as a person.

i would consider going for DO school and like Catalysk mentions in other threads where you can retake classes you have failed and have them use the new grade to replace the old one.

in the meantime lets take med school off the table and see if you can really turn things around over the next few semesters. that should be your number one priority.

 

[redhotpokerb]

Well, I'm not really an expert in this situation, but most of my friends who is your situation are considering D.O. or D.P.M.

I mean if you really want to go to medical field and your GPA is dragging you or if you have doubt your chance in M.D., do some research in DO and DPM.

They are the growing medical profession now, especially DPM. With your GPA and experience, you can definitelly have a good shot at DPM school.

Hope that helps.

 

[Etzio]

Thanks for the responses but I was asking specifically for MD schools.

Based on my situation, how much would a sharp upward trend with a high MCAT score be interpreted for MD schools and to what extent would it mitigate the damage?

Is it worth transferring since I could potentially spend an extra year to improve my grades?

What about things like my research project in China that I would do for a year?

What else can I do to make myself more competitive for MD schools at this point? I am willing to do whatever it takes to get in.

 

[bravofleet4]

look i know our minds are constantly drifting to the future. of course there's always a chance of someone in your situation getting into medical school. if that's what you're asking.

you're right to think that a sharp upward trend plus a good MCAT score will immensely help your situation. but you'll always be disadvantaged I think compared to other applicants. that isn't to say you don't have a shot but you have to know that you can't mitigate all of the damage. of course, if you really want to be a doctor, then you shouldn't let this deter you.

IMO i think you base these decisions like whether to change schools or spend one year in China more if you think they are something you'd like to do and not just to impress the medical schools. I say that because I honestly believe that when you enjoy what you're doing, then you'll go much further.

Of course, everyone does ~200 hours of clinical experience, ~75 hours of shadowing, ~1 year of research, and etc...We don't always enjoy it. What separates candidates though is rarely any of those things. Its what you have to bring to the table as a person that counts. That 1 year trip to China could be a real chance for you to mature as a person or see another culture. It all just kind of depends on you and I just think you would be miserable if you didn't really have any sort of interest except to impress the med schools, wasted a year, and then moped because you didn't get in. Changing schools could give you a clean break or it could end up being just a huge headache for you if your grades didn't improve like you thought they would.

OH YEAH FOCUS ON GETTING GOOD GRADES FIRST

 

[masscrash]

Thanks for the responses but I was asking specifically for MD schools.

Based on my situation, how much would a sharp upward trend with a high MCAT score be interpreted for MD schools and to what extent would it mitigate the damage?

Is it worth transferring since I could potentially spend an extra year to improve my grades?

What about things like my research project in China that I would do for a year?

What else can I do to make myself more competitive for MD schools at this point? I am willing to do whatever it takes to get in.

The best thing you can do is to do your best during the next few quarters and then apply. If you don't get in maybe think about taking up a graduate degree to continue your upward trend of grades. Maybe a year of graduate school would show them you have what it takes.
As sad as it is race does play a role in the admissions of medical school. They have to fill their "Quotas". I TA'ed a premed student who was told at the interview that she was not going to get in. Three days after their rejection they got a call from some sort of ethnicity board and said they had a student drop and they were going to accept her now. And they were not on a waitlist.
Anyways, if you really want to go to med school and will do what ever it takes then you will most likely do it. I had a 2.5 beginning of my senior year and I took 22 credits a quarter and got all A's and brought it up to a 3.1. Good luck

 

[Etzio]

look i know our minds are constantly drifting to the future. of course there's always a chance of someone in your situation getting into medical school. if that's what you're asking.

you're right to think that a sharp upward trend plus a good MCAT score will immensely help your situation. but you'll always be disadvantaged I think compared to other applicants. that isn't to say you don't have a shot but you have to know that you can't mitigate all of the damage. of course, if you really want to be a doctor, then you shouldn't let this deter you.

IMO i think you base these decisions like whether to change schools or spend one year in China more if you think they are something you'd like to do and not just to impress the medical schools. I say that because I honestly believe that when you enjoy what you're doing, then you'll go much further.

Of course, everyone does ~200 hours of clinical experience, ~75 hours of shadowing, ~1 year of research, and etc...We don't always enjoy it. What separates candidates though is rarely any of those things. Its what you have to bring to the table as a person that counts. That 1 year trip to China could be a real chance for you to mature as a person or see another culture. It all just kind of depends on you and I just think you would be miserable if you didn't really have any sort of interest except to impress the med schools, wasted a year, and then moped because you didn't get in. Changing schools could give you a clean break or it could end up being just a huge headache for you if your grades didn't improve like you thought they would.

OH YEAH FOCUS ON GETTING GOOD GRADES FIRST

Right, getting good grades is #1 on my list atm. The 1 year public health research project in China is out of my own interest rather than parading for med school admissions. It would give me a chance to explore and open my perspectives a little more. I was just trying to tie it into med school admissions.

Unlike some others have stated here, I have to say that the answer to your question is "yes." If you look at the tables, Asians have the lowest possibilities of entering with a low GPA.

In order of difficulty:


In all likelihood, you'll have to do a lot more than the average low GPA student to make it into med school.

Now thats just really heartbreaking . Best case scenario would mean that I would only have a 73% chance of getting in with a 36+ MCAT. I would have to transfer in order to get my GPA higher than a 3.19 so it means I probably will but still, that really sucks! Arrgghhh. Wow um ok then, I knew my dream school was never going to happen in the first place (Columbia), but I had a small hope that I could have a shot if I really turned things around. Ill be lucky to get an interview from my state school now. Gah, whatever, it is what it is I guess. Its my fault for screwing up so much anyways. Wow, um I really don't know why im ranting so much haha, I guess I just feel like **** for screwing up so much and basically killing my chances for med school. Man if time travel was possible……Aaaaaaaaaaaarrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhmehblahblahfmlfml. End rant.

Any input on what the "do a lot more" actually is?

 

[TriagePreMed]

Now thats just really heartbreaking . Best case scenario would mean that I would only have a 73% chance of getting in with a 36+ MCAT. I would have to transfer in order to get my GPA higher than a 3.19 so it means I probably will but still, that really sucks! Arrgghhh. Wow um ok then, I knew my dream school was never going to happen in the first place (Columbia), but I had a small hope that I could have a shot if I really turned things around. Ill be lucky to get an interview from my state school now. Gah, whatever, it is what it is I guess. Its my fault for screwing up so much anyways. Wow, um I really don't know why im ranting so much haha, I guess I just feel like **** for screwing up so much and basically killing my chances for med school. Man if time travel was possible……Aaaaaaaaaaaarrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhmehblahblahfmlfml. End rant.

Any input on what the "do a lot more" actually is?

Yes, it sucks that the system is set up that way, but keep in mind you are more than your race and numbers when your application comes around. Try your best and write a great personal statement. You never know who might read it and what might happen.

 

[bravofleet4]

it's really hard to argue against statistics but i would just like to point out that its difficult to make the case that asians are being discriminated considering the proportion they make up of the total US population compared to the proportion of students they make up in med school. anyway i'll just leave it at that.

racial quota or not I don't really think its impossible to differentiate yourself from the average med student. SDN is not very representative of the applicant pool. if you can get published in research or do presentations it would help a lot. not that that's easy but half time honestly stuff like that just seems like being in the right place at the right time. that's why i said you know make the best of your experiences.

 

[Long Way to Go]

it's really hard to argue against statistics but i would just like to point out that its difficult to make the case that asians are being discriminated considering the proportion they make up of the total US population compared to the proportion of students they make up in med school. anyway i'll just leave it at that.

That's a false comparison. If you were excluding race from the picture, you would expect that an AdCom would look more favorably at a 3.5/32 candidate who they didn't know was Asian than they would a 3.2/29 candidate they didn't know was a URM.

The comparison you are looking for is medical students who are Asian vs. proportion of applicants who are Asian. Assuming that the aggregate LORs/ECs/Essays/Interviews among candidates of different races balance themselves out in the end, you would expect that both percentages are the same. They aren't. So either Asian applicants as a whole are really missing something with regards to the non-academic parts of the application or Asians are not being evaluated on the same standard.

 

[bravofleet4]

That's a false comparison. If you were excluding race from the picture, you would expect that an AdCom would look more favorably at a 3.5/32 candidate who they didn't know was Asian than they would a 3.2/29 candidate they didn't know was a URM.

The comparison you are looking for is medical students who are Asian vs. proportion of applicants who are Asian. Assuming that the aggregate LORs/ECs/Essays/Interviews among candidates of different races balance themselves out in the end, you would expect that both percentages are the same. They aren't. So either Asian applicants as a whole are really missing something with regards to the non-academic parts of the application or Asians are not being evaluated on the same standard.

you know what nevermind I fold.

 

[bannie22]

I will answer one question.

Being Asian in itself is a red flag because the admissions process is not determined just based on meritocracy. There are lots of other factors that schools have to consider such as the diversity of the US general population, the demographic distribution of the entering class, etc etc.


Rather than think about whether you will need a 38 or a 44 MCAT to stand a chance, just do your best and get the 45. Then even if you fail you tried your best... Same with other parts of your application, do well also in your GPA, ECs, research, etc.

 

[Etzio]

Yes, it sucks that the system is set up that way, but keep in mind you are more than your race and numbers when your application comes around. Try your best and write a great personal statement. You never know who might read it and what might happen.

Haha um no. Its not how the system works remember? Schools don't "read" your app unless you got numbers to boot. At least that's the case for Asians anyways. I mean even if it took the soul out of me to turn things around completely and do some really great things like a project in China for a year, research pubs, volunteering, GPA trend, killer MCAT etc, it would still preclude me from admissions in many ways since I a) am Asian, and b) Didn't get an A in general chemistry my freshmen year. That's a pretty big flaw in the system. Whatever, I have no choice but to accept the system anyways.

Man I mean im just PISSED haha. Like I know I shouldn't beat myself up after seeing the stats but I can't help it!

Man I screwed up so much and I kinda feel like elephant **** that's been stomped over repeatedly. Ah well some people out there are smart and some are just dumb so its cool, goodbye Columbia, and a lot of other schools I wanted to go too.

So I guess we should start talking Caribbean then even though I hate too? That's where most Asians with low GPA's end up anyways…...

 

[Pons Asinorum]

...but I was asking specifically for MD schools.

You need to wrap your mind around MD programs being unlikely, and whether you want to be a physician badly enough to get over your prejudices and consider DO programs. I'm surely not the DO-cheering squad, but you would significantly increase your chances at becoming a physician if you were to consider applying to DO programs as well. The stats speak for themselves. If all you want is MD programs, well, best of luck my friend.

 

[V5RED]

So I guess we should start talking Caribbean then even though I hate too? That's where most Asians with low GPA's end up anyways…...

You would rather go to a Caribbean school than an American Osteopathic school?

 

[Krw0132]

Wow everyone is really discouraging! I had a 3.1 GPA applied to 20 schools and accepted to 16. So, dont be discouraged keep working hard and if its something that you really want you can get it. dont let people discourage you and put you down!

 

[V5RED]

Wow everyone is really discouraging! I had a 3.1 GPA applied to 20 schools and accepted to 16. So, dont be discouraged keep working hard and if its something that you really want you can get it. dont let people discourage you and put you down!

Interesting first post mein freund. Are you sure you are not just the OP with a new name?

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Wow everyone is really discouraging! I had a 3.1 GPA applied to 20 schools and accepted to 16. So, dont be discouraged keep working hard and if its something that you really want you can get it. dont let people discourage you and put you down!

Let me help you with that...

 

[Etzio]

You need to wrap your mind around MD programs being unlikely, and whether you want to be a physician badly enough to get over your prejudices and consider DO programs. I'm surely not the DO-cheering squad, but you would significantly increase your chances at becoming a physician if you were to consider applying to DO programs as well. The stats speak for themselves. If all you want is MD programs, well, best of luck my friend.

Why? Because my GPA sucks? Am I the only one in the history of MD matriculants to apply with a low GPA? No. Other people have done it. So why can't I? Is it less likely? Yea. Is it really less likely because im Asian? Apparently it is. But its still possible, so don't throw me the DO nonsense just yet.

If you have anything constructive to say as to how I could strengthen my application beyond the obvious killer MCAT and huge upward grade trend, I would appreciate it. Otherwise just back off buddy.

You would rather go to a Caribbean school than an American Osteopathic school?

I would rather go to neither actually. An American Allopathic school sounds dandy. Unfortunately the bias that exists in the system forces me to consider options like the Caribbean that I really don't want too.

Interesting first post mein freund. Are you sure you are not just the OP with a new name?

Pretty sure he/she isn't. If he/she did get in with a 3.1, well then props to them.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Why are you so reluctant over getting a DO degree? Isn't it most important to be a physician?

 

[Etzio]

Why are you so reluctant over getting a DO degree? Isn't it most important to be a physician?

At the moment its more important to talk about my original question rather than my personal feelings towards MD and DOs.

Based off those AAMCAS statistics, im not even sure if doing the things that I planned on doing like huge upward grade trend, killer MCAT, project in China, shadowing, volunteering, etc. would even matter. My question is how much of all of that would mitigate the damage (if at all) caused by 2.5 years of failure? Is there even a point to trying anymore for med schools?

 

[TriagePreMed]

At the moment its more important to talk about my original question rather than my personal feelings towards MD and DOs.

Based off those AAMCAS statistics, im not even sure if doing the things that I planned on doing like huge upward grade trend, killer MCAT, project in China, shadowing, volunteering, etc. would even matter. My question is how much of all of that would mitigate the damage (if at all) caused by 2.5 years of failure? Is there even a point to trying anymore for med schools?

I understand you not wanting to discuss your opinions of MD/DO because it might stir hell around here, but if it is because you believe you won't be able to practice the same or have to live with some bias, it's important to have that discussion.

I'll be honest with your last question and tell you there is no point trying anymore for medical school for you. I say this not based on grades or activities, but I say it because it doesn't seem to pump through your blood like a lot here. Many folks here would never consider quitting even with a 2.0 GPA. Given that others with low GPA have made it, it's obviously not impossible.

 

[Etzio]

I understand you not wanting to discuss your opinions of MD/DO because it might stir hell around here, but if it is because you believe you won't be able to practice the same or have to live with some bias, it's important to have that discussion.

I'll be honest with your last question and tell you there is no point trying anymore for medical school for you. I say this not based on grades or activities, but I say it because it doesn't seem to pump through your blood like a lot here. Many folks here would never consider quitting even with a 2.0 GPA. Given that others with low GPA have made it, it's obviously not impossible.

My opinions of MD/DO are not relevant to this discussion. Let's leave it at that.

Of course I don't want to quit. I want to get into med school more than Osama Bin Laden wants nukes. As you said, other people with low GPAs have made it, and if they can, I can too. I was just looking for some evidence that it is POSSIBLE. That is all.

 

[TriagePreMed]

My opinions of MD/DO are not relevant to this discussion. Let's leave it at that.

Of course I don't want to quit. I want to get into med school more than Osama Bin Laden wants nukes. As you said, other people with low GPAs have made it, and if they can, I can too. I was just looking for some evidence that it is POSSIBLE. That is all.

Well, according to the grid I cited, 31.6% of asian applicants with a 3.3/30 did get in, so I don't know what you mean by "it is possible."

 

[Etzio]

Well, according to the grid I cited, 31.6% of asian applicants with a 3.3/30 did get in, so I don't know what you mean by "it is possible."

Right so, first off screw the grid. Second, my other question:


If I can pull of a near 4.0 for the rest of undergrad (and if I transfer an extra year) so we are talking about 2.5 years of a 2.76 followed by 2.5 years of a 3.9, and let's for arguments sake assume like a 38 MCAT. Good EC's, things like a project in China for year, etc…..how much will that mitigate the effects of my bad grades if at all, lets include the fact that im Asian here as well?

I am going to try my best to make this happen, and this is best case scenario and highly unlikely to happen as I laid it out. But what if it did?

 

[TriagePreMed]

Right so, first off screw the grid. Second, my other question:


If I can pull of a near 4.0 for the rest of undergrad (and if I transfer an extra year) so we are talking about 2.5 years of a 2.76 followed by 2.5 years of a 3.9, and let's for arguments sake assume like a 38 MCAT. Good EC's, things like a project in China for year, etc…..how much will that mitigate the effects of my bad grades if at all, lets include the fact that im Asian here as well?

I am going to try my best to make this happen, and this is best case scenario and highly unlikely to happen as I laid it out. But what if it did?

From what I hear that what most strongly mitigates the effects of past grades that were bad is to work in industry. If you have 2-3 years of clinical research under your belt, it's better than some of the things you propose. I truly think a 3.3/33 with 2 years of full time clinical research has much more of a shot than a project in china for a year.

 

[berriesandcream]

I came on here to get an insight on why you were being such a jerk, and now your responses make sense. I'm sorry I offended you. But seriously, you were leaving me comments saying get a life, stop posting, stop complaining, and I see the exact mirror image here. Could be a bad day, or just mere hatred towards me/my post, but in the end, your post echos my post. Most I could have gotten from you was empathy, not you being such a jerk.
No hard feelings, I wish you luck in your path and I hope you accomplish all that you set out to do.
My one input, with a 3.1 and being asian, that should not hold you back from MD school. All I see holding you back is your lack of empathy towards other, and empathy is one trait I see amongst all doctors. Still, I say, reach for the stars, you want to be an MD, nothing should hold you back

truce?

 

[kcin]

As for your "DO nonsense" comment... just remember in the back of your head that some/a lot of us DO students have better grades/mcat scores than you ever will. Good luck.

 

[getright]

As for your "DO nonsense" comment... just remember in the back of your head that some/a lot of us DO students have better grades/mcat scores than you ever will. Good luck.

ohhhhhh BURN

 

[Etzio]

As for your "DO nonsense" comment... just remember in the back of your head that some/a lot of us DO students have better grades/mcat scores than you ever will. Good luck.

Will do partner……just realize that at the end of the day, its still "DO nonesense" and nothing is going to change that. I also have time to apply, so things aren't over just yet.

 

[Etzio]

From what I hear that what most strongly mitigates the effects of past grades that were bad is to work in industry. If you have 2-3 years of clinical research under your belt, it's better than some of the things you propose. I truly think a 3.3/33 with 2 years of full time clinical research has much more of a shot than a project in china for a year.

I was thinking my project in China for a year after I graduate and then maybe an SMP, but you would recommend doing a masters instead?

 

[Etzio]

I came on here to get an insight on why you were being such a jerk, and now your responses make sense. I'm sorry I offended you. But seriously, you were leaving me comments saying get a life, stop posting, stop complaining, and I see the exact mirror image here. Could be a bad day, or just mere hatred towards me/my post, but in the end, your post echos my post. Most I could have gotten from you was empathy, not you being such a jerk.
No hard feelings, I wish you luck in your path and I hope you accomplish all that you set out to do.
My one input, with a 3.1 and being asian, that should not hold you back from MD school. All I see holding you back is your lack of empathy towards other, and empathy is one trait I see amongst all doctors. Still, I say, reach for the stars, you want to be an MD, nothing should hold you back

truce?

The difference is that my situation actually warrants those kinds of emotions. You have a 3.6 and are being a little b*tch about it. Thank you and truce, just watch how you frame future posts on here.

 

[Signifier]

You have the $$ for an SMP?

 

[Etzio]

You have the $$ for an SMP?

Maybe, idk yet, its too far away for me to budget that much in advance.

 

[ToldYouSo]

First of all you say that your opinions of MD/DO are not relevant, but you have no trouble calling DO "nonsense" not just once but twice, not good. Second, you aren't even in an academic position to be condemning osteopathic medicine even though it's been discussed on these forums ad nauseum that there is no difference between these degrees in real world practice and that the meaningless "MD vs. DO" threads that show up here are almost universally just a pre-med mentality. DO schools tend to look more beyond stats are actually your best friend now, but your attitude towards them will cost you in the long run. Burns bridges at your own discretion.

 

[Etzio]

First of all you say that your opinions of MD/DO are not relevant, but you have no trouble calling DO "nonsense" not just once but twice, not good. Second, you aren't even in an academic position to be condemning osteopathic medicine even though it's been discussed on these forums ad nauseum that there is no difference between these degrees in real world practice and that the meaningless "MD vs. DO" threads that show up here are almost universally just a pre-med mentality. DO schools tend to look more beyond stats are actually your best friend now, but your attitude towards them will cost you in the long run. Burns bridges at your own discretion.

Hey thanks for the input Confucius. There are the little green MD letters next to this thread before you open it, nowhere in my opening post do I mention DO's so it is nonsense in that it doesn't make sense with what im asking. My reasons for not considering DO schools are my own business and not relevant to this thread. You just got a bad fortune cookie today didn't you?

 

[TriagePreMed]

I was thinking my project in China for a year after I graduate and then maybe an SMP, but you would recommend doing a masters instead?

No, I would recommend you work for a company like Genentech in their laboratories for a year or two.

 

[Signifier]

Egh. I see a lot of decent advice being given in this thread and being met mostly with cynicism, sarcasm and defensiveness.

 

[kcin]

.

 

[Etzio]

Egh. I see a lot of decent advice being given in this thread and being met mostly with cynicism, sarcasm and defensiveness.

Well not all, I mean I was receptive to the tables that Triage contributed that caused my cynicism I was receptive to the advice about pursuing a temporary research career. Just not so much about the advice about DO stuff…..not really congruent with what I was asking so I had fun bashing that

 

[Pons Asinorum]

...and let's for arguments sake assume like a 38 MCAT.

So much anger. Next thing, you'll be claiming that DNP's aren't doctors and that you don't want to be one of those either. Whatever. The DO-types around here will be watching these parts to smash future silly disparaging comments about "DO nonsense," so I'll just sit back and eat my popcorn.

However, I would like to get in on a little of the betting action around here. You name the wager amount. Straight odds. You will not be making 38 or above on the MCAT. It will be the easiest money I've ever made.

 

[Westonski]

My advice to you is to take that trip to China and stay there indefinitely. American medicine doesn't need your sour attitude and pathetic 2.76 GPA. GTFO.

 

[silas2642]

I have to say that previous posters have given you good advice about considering options other than US allopathic schools. To be honest, your chances at this time seem extremely slim and your plan seems to be relatively difficult to achieve. Going from a 2.7 to a 4.0 student may not be the most realistic goal, and I think that you need to take this under consideration.

Why do you want to become a physician so badly? The battle to get into med school is an uphill one, even for someone with good numbers. I would certainly encourage you to sit back and think long and hard why you want to do medicine and if anything else (PA school, NP school, etc) would satisfy you.

The second step would be to think about alternate paths to getting a medical degree; you're most likely not going to get into a US MD school. It's still possible, but at this point, not looking good. Here are some possible options:

1. SMP: Special Master's Program: You'll still have to get your gpa up to at least a 3.0 in order to get accepted to a reputable one. I think you may also have to take the MCAT as well. As you can well imagine, if you do not blow the MCAT out of the water, you're in trouble.

The cons to this are going to be if you don't do well at an SMP, you've pretty much nailed your coffin shut. End of game; you've proved that you can't handle a med school curriculum.

2. Osteopathic School: You've already shut the door on this excellent option and I doubt you even know what you're talking about. Most DO's that I've met don't even practice OMM (and regarding OMM, I do share your skepticism), and they practice alongside MD's as full-fledged colleagues. There are a lot of reputable schools that produce excellent clinicians.

The con is that these schools are "less prestigious," and you may have a more difficult time landing a competitive residency at a "top-tier" program, but this may still be your best option. Don't believe me? Look at the NRMP data of DO grads vs. IMG's/FMG's. DO's do better.

3. Caribbean: This is the last, absolutely last resort. If you do end up a Caribbean, there are probably only like 4 worth going to and even then it's an enormous risk-- the attrition rates are very high. These are schools dedicated to their investors, not you're education.

 

[kcin]

Well not all, I mean I was receptive to the tables that Triage contributed that caused my cynicism I was receptive to the advice about pursuing a temporary research career. Just not so much about the advice about DO stuff…..not really congruent with what I was asking so I had fun bashing that

Man, this guy is either a joke or a 10/10 troll. He comes on here rocking his sub 3.0 GPA, and acts like he's a hot shot that's too good for anything but top tier MD schools. He's not really interested in being a doctor, he's just interested in trying to impress people.

Let us know what nursing program you get into, bro.

 

[Etzio]

Alrighty lets get started shall we?

So much anger. Next thing, you'll be claiming that DNP's aren't doctors and that you don't want to be one of those either. Whatever. The DO-types around here will be watching these parts to smash future silly disparaging comments about "DO nonsense," so I'll just sit back and eat my popcorn.

However, I would like to get in on a little of the betting action around here. You name the wager amount. Straight odds. You will not be making 38 or above on the MCAT. It will be the easiest money I've ever made.

I believe that a doctor means MD. That's how I have been brought up, that's how I have been influenced as I grew up. You don't like it - gtfo. My cousin is a DO and he gets treated like **** from my family. Hell his dad (an MD) even openly puts him down for it. Moreover, Ive worked at the local hospital near where I live, ive heard nurses say innocent things to patients like "sorry this isn't the doctors office, this is the DO's." To an Orthopedic surgeon telling me that "when I meet a DO I am always thinking in the back of my mind that he couldn't cut it out to be an MD." Even the head of Oncology specifically told his attending "not to interview any DOs" for openings on his team. So there is a bias that exists in the workplace and im not gonna just sit around and take s*it from people for the rest of my life. Like I said, im done failing.

As for the MCAT, I don't care what you bet. You know nothing about me and know nothing of what I am capable of.

I have to say that previous posters have given you good advice about considering options other than US allopathic schools. To be honest, your chances at this time seem extremely slim and your plan seems to be relatively difficult to achieve. Going from a 2.7 to a 4.0 student may not be the most realistic goal, and I think that you need to take this under consideration.

Why do you want to become a physician so badly? The battle to get into med school is an uphill one, even for someone with good numbers. I would certainly encourage you to sit back and think long and hard why you want to do medicine and if anything else (PA school, NP school, etc) would satisfy you.

The second step would be to think about alternate paths to getting a medical degree; you're most likely not going to get into a US MD school. It's still possible, but at this point, not looking good. Here are some possible options:

1. SMP: Special Master's Program: You'll still have to get your gpa up to at least a 3.0 in order to get accepted to a reputable one. I think you may also have to take the MCAT as well. As you can well imagine, if you do not blow the MCAT out of the water, you're in trouble.

The cons to this are going to be if you don't do well at an SMP, you've pretty much nailed your coffin shut. End of game; you've proved that you can't handle a med school curriculum.

2. Osteopathic School: You've already shut the door on this excellent option and I doubt you even know what you're talking about. Most DO's that I've met don't even practice OMM (and regarding OMM, I do share your skepticism), and they practice alongside MD's as full-fledged colleagues. There are a lot of reputable schools that produce excellent clinicians.

The con is that these schools are "less prestigious," and you may have a more difficult time landing a competitive residency at a "top-tier" program, but this may still be your best option. Don't believe me? Look at the NRMP data of DO grads vs. IMG's/FMG's. DO's do better.

3. Caribbean: This is the last, absolutely last resort. If you do end up a Caribbean, there are probably only like 4 worth going to and even then it's an enormous risk-- the attrition rates are very high. These are schools dedicated to their investors, not you're education.

Thanks for the informative post. I have my reasons for doing medicine and its completely independent of prestige, or familial pressure. I know its going to be an uphill battle but Asians with low GPA's have gotten into med school before, so I know that it is possible. I am not interested in anything other than US Allopathic schools.

1) SMP - most likely.
2) DO - Nope, for the reasons I said above.
3) Really hope this isn't necessary.

My advice to you is to take that trip to China and stay there indefinitely. American medicine doesn't need your sour attitude and pathetic 2.76 GPA. GTFO.

Thats clever, did you stay up all night writing that?

Man, this guy is either a joke or a 10/10 troll. He comes on here rocking his sub 3.0 GPA, and acts like he's a hot shot that's too good for anything but top tier MD schools. He's not really interested in being a doctor, he's just interested in trying to impress people.

Let us know what nursing program you get into, bro.

Well from what ive seen, nurses treat DOs like s*it anyways, so ill have fun doing that when your around.

Who said anything about top tier? That was previous thread I was asking out of pure curiosity knowing full well I would never get into them, I just want to get into med school (aka US MD). My reasons for going into medicine isn't to impress anyone, and I sure as hell don't have to explain those reasons to you.

 

[kcin]

10/10

I said:
"He's not really interested in being a doctor, he's just interested in trying to impress people."

You said:
"I believe that a doctor means MD. That's how I have been brought up, that's how I have been influenced as I grew up. You don't like it - gtfo. My cousin is a DO and he gets treated like **** from my family. Hell his dad (an MD) even openly puts him down for it."

Thanks for the confirmation

 

[Etzio]

10/10

I said:
"He's not really interested in being a doctor, he's just interested in trying to impress people."

You said:
"I believe that a doctor means MD. That's how I have been brought up, that's how I have been influenced as I grew up. You don't like it - gtfo. My cousin is a DO and he gets treated like **** from my family. Hell his dad (an MD) even openly puts him down for it."

Thanks for the confirmation

I'll quit baiting you now, it's too easy and I feel bad about polluting this forum

Hmmm didn't understand what I meant there. Its okay, your slow, I gotcha.

I don't want to be a DO, thats a personal choice that I made after being influenced by family and my experiences working at my hospital.

I have been brought up in that doctor to my family = MD. This of course has nothing to do with me wanting to impress anyone. My passion from medicine came when I was shadowing an oncologist at my local hospital and dealt with a patient trying to kill themselves, another patient who learned that he had a month to live, and many other experiences that taught me a lot and really showed me a unique side of medicine. Ill talk about that in my personal statement rather than to your osteopathetic @$$.

 

[kcin]

 

[Etzio]

Haha on the contrary, btw im betting that's a self portrait of you there in the center. Very charming.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Etzio, with all due respect, I don't think medicine is for you. I don't think you have the backbone to it, nor do I think you have the patience and grace to handle situations maturely. It's fine if you don't want to be a DO. Many people feel that way, but the way it stems from you is because you're fearful of what other people may think of you. I'm sorry about your cousin too. It seems he/she doesn't have the balls to tell his/her father to go F*** himself. Even if you get an MD, I'm sure you'll feel less because you didn't do dermatology or weren't a resident at hopkins. It really never stops when your self-esteem is low.

In addition to all that, you got a horrible GPA of 2.7. I had one too and have turned things around for the most part. It is entirely possible to do so, but I don't see that drive from you. Maybe it would be good for you to evaluate doing other things with your life entirely or wait until maturity kicks in.