Georgetown vs VTC

[pre-spring]

Deciding between these two schools. Interested in either thoracic or orthopedic surgery, I know interest change but mostly leaning towards a surgical sub speciality.
VTC:
Pros

1. Small class size so better faculty relationships - LOR, etc.
2. NBME exam format
3. P/F grading first two years (I don't know if this is good or bad for competitive apps so if someone can tell me)
4. A lot of emphasis on research.
5. Research might also help with matching
6. Really good fit with all my interests in research and other stuff.
7. Match list for surgery looks to be great

Cons

1. Don't like living in a small town.
2. Don't have home residencies in some surgical specialties. Have plastic and Neurosurgery but not orthopedic and thoracic surgery
3. Have a research institute next to them, but a lot of it is bench lab research that I might not do anyways, clinical research seems to be on the lower side, but still has the best research opportunities among the three schools I think.
4. Don't like the PBL structure. I prefer having online classes that I can watch and learn by myself, and VTC has mandatory PBL classes 3 days a week and their curriculum is structured around that.

Georgetown
pros:
1) New city, opportunity to branch out
Research and mentorship opportunities
2) better ranked and more prestige. With step 1 being P/F, don’t know if the Georgetown name recognition is going to help for competitive surgical residencies.
3) pass/fail all four years including clinicals
4) Match list seems really good for surgery and they have home residencies in basically all fields, although they don’t seem to have a thoracic residency as well.
cons:
1) Larger class size
2) more service focused and to be honest, I’m not really that into service
3) less research focused than VTC and might have to compete with other students for research opportunities.

At the end of the day I essentially want to go to the school that will set me up better for surgical residencies. Georgetown is higher ranked and is more prestigious, but VTC with the small class size seems to provide a lot of opportunities, so not sure what to choose.

Thanks

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[Putkernerinthehall]

Good pro/con list. Couple observations/questions.

For Georgetown, I'm not sure whether P/F all four years is a pro. P/F for preclinical certainly is a pro, but if you're graded P/F for clinical rotations how will you distinguish yourself for residency ? Research and LORs will help, but I think something like H, HP, P, F would be better. Others may disagree.

Given your comment about service, it's mildly surprising you got accepted to Georgetown. Probably not important, just amusing.

I've heard from some friends that PBL at VTC is actually pretty cool. Heavy in M1, not quite as much work in M2. Personally I think the collaboration will help make you a better doctor.

One thing you don't mention is cost ? How does that compare and does it matter? COL in Roanoke is quite low. DC is on the other end of the scale.

Good luck!

 

[pre-spring]

Good pro/con list. Couple observations/questions.

For Georgetown, I'm not sure whether P/F all four years is a pro. P/F for preclinical certainly is a pro, but if you're graded P/F for clinical rotations how will you distinguish yourself for residency ? Research and LORs will help, but I think something like H, HP, P, F would be better. Others may disagree.

Given your comment about service, it's mildly surprising you got accepted to Georgetown. Probably not important, just amusing.

I've heard from some friends that PBL at VTC is actually pretty cool. Heavy in M1, not quite as much work in M2. Personally I think the collaboration will help make you a better doctor.

One thing you don't mention is cost ? How does that compare and does it matter? COL in Roanoke is quite low. DC is on the other end of the scale.

Good luck!

Georgetown is slightly pricier, but not by much at the end of the day and shouldn’t make much difference.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

Georgetown is slightly pricier, but not by much at the end of the day and shouldn’t make much difference.

Living expenses have got to be almost double in DC versus Roanoke. Mostly due to housing cost differential.

 

[chilly_md]

Georgetown is north of 400k and I remember VTC used to give many students (if not the whole class) 10k off. Not sure whether that was a renewable grant/scholarship, but that would increase the cost difference. And rent likely has accelerated past Georgetown's estimates. It would be worth looking to see what options there are in the market right now.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

Roanoke (VTC) is a very inexpensive place to live, compared to places like NoVa, WDC, etc.

 

[pre-spring]

Living expenses have got to be almost double in DC versus Roanoke. Mostly due to housing cost differential.

DC is expensive, but my parents are contributing a bit to my tuition and lobbing expenses, so for now, I’m mostly looking at which place would give the me the best chance residency and not really concerned by the cost difference.

 

[pre-spring]

Georgetown is north of 400k and I remember VTC used to give many students (if not the whole class) 10k off. Not sure whether that was a renewable grant/scholarship, but that would increase the cost difference. And rent likely has accelerated past Georgetown's estimates. It would be worth looking to see what options there are in the market right now.

Parents are contributing, so for now, more focused on which one would give me a better chance for competitive residencies rather than the cost difference.

 

[chilly_md]

Parents are contributing, so for now, more focused on which one would give me a better chance for competitive residencies rather than the cost difference.

They're the same. If you are interested in surgery, you had seen that they have some impressive matches already. The research component at VTC would be more helpful than just going off either school's name.

 

[m1redsox]

I’ve always been curious why VTC is so well-liked on SDN despite being a new school. Maybe it’s the research integration. Honestly, home programs are a must for me, and if you’re interested in surgery, then making a strong impression with your home program director can overcome low board scores or minimal research. Of course, it’s best to avoid those issues, but I have found networking with my home program to be absolutely vital so far in 4th year.

Additionally, P/F clinical rotations is a massive pro. It will make 3rd year so much more enjoyable. There is way too much variation in H/HP/P standards between schools. With that said, you should strive to do well on your shelf exams because they directly prepare you for STEP 2.

Since your parents are willing to help with the COL difference, I would definitely go with GT.

 

[pre-spring]

I’ve always been curious why VTC is so well-liked on SDN despite being a new school. Maybe it’s the research integration. Honestly, home programs are a must for me, and if you’re interested in surgery, then making a strong impression with your home program director can overcome low board scores or minimal research. Of course, it’s best to avoid those issues, but I have found networking with my home program to be absolutely vital so far in 4th year.

Additionally, P/F clinical rotations is a massive pro. It will make 3rd year so much more enjoyable. There is way too much variation in H/HP/P standards between schools. With that said, you should strive to do well on your shelf exams because they directly prepare you for STEP 2.

Since your parents are willing to help with the COL difference, I would definitely go with GT.

Thanks for letting me know. I guess both Georgetown and VTC don’t have home programs in thoracic and VTC does seem to have all home programs except for ortho.

The things I’m debating between are that I might get more research and mentorship opportunities at VTC compared to Georgetown. But Georgetown also has better name recognition and P/F clinicals. So, I’m deciding which are important. Both match lists also seem equally good. So, what do you think is more important in your opinion?

 

[pre-spring]

They're the same. If you are interested in surgery, you had seen that they have some impressive matches already. The research component at VTC would be more helpful than just going off either school's name.

So,do you think VTC might be better I’m this case?

 

[chilly_md]

So,do you think VTC might be better I’m this case?

Yes.

 

[m1redsox]

Thanks for letting me know. I guess both Georgetown and VTC don’t have home programs in thoracic and VTC does seem to have all home programs except for ortho.

The things I’m debating between are that I might get more research and mentorship opportunities at VTC compared to Georgetown. But Georgetown also has better name recognition and P/F clinicals. So, I’m deciding which are important. Both match lists also seem equally good. So, what do you think is more important in your opinion?

Very few programs have an integrated thoracic program (not even Hopkins, WashU, or Mayo).

Nonetheless, at VTC there’s no ortho, no ophtho, no urology, no IR, no DR, no anesthesia. That plus P/F clinicals makes GT a clear winner to me. Besides, you’d have to tie me to the chair and force me to choose doing basic science research over clinical research.

 

[pre-spring]

Very few programs have an integrated thoracic program (not even Hopkins, WashU, or Mayo).

Nonetheless, at VTC there’s no ortho, no ophtho, no urology, no IR, no DR, no anesthesia. That plus P/F clinicals makes GT a clear winner to me. Besides, you’d have to tie me to the chair and force me to choose doing basic science research over clinical research.

Thanks for everything. Does VTC not have clinical research and focused on basic science research? I thought most med school students do clinical research and rarely do any basic science.

 

[m1redsox]

Thanks for everything. Does VTC not have clinical research and focused on basic science research? I thought most med school students do clinical research and rarely do any basic science.

I have no idea. I only said this because your original post says VTC focuses on basic science research.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

I have no idea. I only said this because your original post says VTC focuses on basic science research.

Does basic science research generally carry more weight than clinical research for ERAS ? Is it looked upon more favorably by PDs?

 

[m1redsox]

Does basic science research generally carry more weight than clinical research for ERAS ? Is it looked upon more favorably by PDs?

Not at all. Matter of fact, as clinicians themselves, PDs and adcoms will likely be more interested in discussing clinical research. Plus, it is usually faster than basic science research, so you can be more productive.

Edit: conversely, the only reason basic science might be better is because it generally takes longer and so if you publish in it, it may show a lot of dedication to the field.

 

[pre-spring]

Not at all. Matter of fact, as clinicians themselves, PDs and adcoms will likely be more interested in discussing clinical research. Plus, it is usually faster than basic science research, so you can be more productive.

Edit: conversely, the only reason basic science might be better is because it generally takes longer and so if you publish in it, it may show a lot of dedication to the field.

Someone told me basic science publications have more weight than clinical publications. Like, 5-6 basic science publications would be equal to 10-11 clinical publications. Although, not really sure how accurate they are, and I'm not really interested in basic science research either way. But, they got into a top Neurosurgery residency and told me their basic science publications helped a lot, but he also did clinical research and has a couple of publications as well.

 

[pre-spring]

For these two, I'm mostly leaning towards Georgetown, but the small class size and the research and mentorship opportunities at VTC and their match list for General Surgery, in which people went to Yale and UCSF, is kind of making me doubt myself.

 

[m1redsox]

Someone told me basic science publications have more weight than clinical publications. Like, 5-6 basic science publications would be equal to 10-11 clinical publications. Although, not really sure how accurate they are, and I'm not really interested in basic science research either way. But, they got into a top Neurosurgery residency and told me their basic science publications helped a lot, but he also did clinical research and has a couple of publications as well.

Yes, but I think that is along the same lines of what I’m saying. It takes so long to get a basic science pub that they are considered more heavily because they imply a lot more dedication to the project and field. However, my point is that I hate basic science research, and I would gladly do two clinical projects instead of one basic science project. I think clinical research is easier, takes less time, and is more interesting (to me, who wants to be a clinician, and potentially a program director unless they are MD/PhD or something).