General Cardiology Boards 2023

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And frankly we are not students anymore, we have families, young kids, aging parents, sick patients, very demanding careers as cardiologists, etc etc we don't have protected time to study for board exams like we did when we were students. There's literally no reason to purposefully be out to trick, ask random trivia level questions or give tricky 2 second video clips or poor quality ECGs and ask to intrepret on a standardized exam. Just test basic knowledge to ensure basic level competency it doesn't have to be an aptitude level test.

Thank you. Exactly. Their reason is to make money at the expense of other people’s blood, sweat, and tears. They’ve turned doctors into voiceless victims. And this is across the board with ABIM - even when it comes to sub specialty exams after cardiology.

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You guys got that email from ABIM regarding those 2 questions on 2nd day?
I have lost more faith in this test. No wonder what else is going on we don’t know about. This was after all the emails that were sent to ABIM
 
I mean at what point do we start talking about litigation?

This is absolutely unacceptable.

This does nothing to account for the opportunity cost/time lost for those that received those questions.
 
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I mean at what point do we start talking about litigation?

This is absolutely unacceptable.

This does nothing to account for the opportunity cost/time lost for those that received those questions.

We need to do a class action lawsuit against ABIM for the monopoly they have and for restricting our jobs just because we don't participate in their process. It should 100% be voluntary.

We need to go to media (New York Times or some other major media outlet) to do a story on ABIM and how they restrict doctors and can ruin careers all to increase their own revenue. This is only way things will change.

These issues are not specific just to cardiology unfortunately it's ABIM as a whole.
 
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Taking out those questions for some people means that those people will have more weight on the other questions and have two less opportunities ( multiple points per question) to get points to pass. So the people with the questions that couldn't be answered are more likely to fail. There is NO way this can be made fair without disqualifying the entire day two. We learns stats; I took those course in university and use stats in research. They are banking on us being busy and not understanding standarizaitons/stats and blindly accepting the generic garbage they push in those emails. That email doesn't make sense. THEY DID NOT ANSWER MY EMAIL about showing proof of validation. How do we know its fair; because we have concrete evidence it's not with these questions. I will be sending them many more.

Additionally many other questions could not be answered that we didn't pick up on!. They can't obviously argue about these ones because the correct coding sheet wasn't provided. But they didn't comment on putting in a coronary sinus ASD! and not having that on the coding sheet; SAME! situation.
 
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They made a BIG mistake and it will not be played down. Their mistake; they better fix it. The fix is not just simply taking out the questions, it's taking out all of day two.
 
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Taking out those questions for some people means that those people will have more weight on the other questions and have two less opportunities ( multiple points per question) to get points to pass. So the people with the questions that couldn't be answered are more likely to fail. There is NO way this can be made fair without disqualifying the entire day two. We learns stats; I took those course in university and use stats in research. They are banking on us being busy and not understanding standarizaitons/stats and blindly accepting the generic garbage they push in those emails. That email doesn't make sense. THEY DID NOT ANSWER MY EMAIL about showing proof of validation. How do we know its fair; because we have concrete evidence it's not with these questions. I will be sending them many more.

Additionally many other questions could not be answered that we didn't pick up on!. They can't obviously argue about these ones because the correct coding sheet wasn't provided. But they didn't comment on putting in a coronary sinus ASD! and not having that on the coding sheet; SAME! situation.

I agree with everything you're saying but there is nothing stopping them from arguing that those were just "experimental" questions which they do state that there are some questions on day 1 and 2 that don't count. Day 2 is absolutely ridiculous and no one knows how to code it. Evil organization.
 
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We need to do a class action lawsuit against ABIM for the monopoly they have and for restricting our jobs just because we don't participate in their process. It should 100% be voluntary.

We need to go to media (New York Times or some other major media outlet) to do a story on ABIM and how they restrict doctors and can ruin careers all to increase their own revenue. This is only way things will change.

These issues are not specific just to cardiology unfortunately it's ABIM as a whole.

and don't forget that it is only offered once a year and that if you pass only 1 day and fail the other you still have to take entire exam again all over again the following year and it holds up all your other subspeciality exams
 
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I agree with everything you're saying but there is nothing stopping them from arguing that those were just "experimental" questions which they do state that there are some questions on day 1 and 2 that don't count. Day 2 is absolutely ridiculous and no one knows how to code it. Evil organization.
I was the under the impression everyone got the "experimental" questions. It would be wrong to give some people the questions and not others. That would make the exam unfair.
 
I agree with everyone on here. I would just add that these questions CANNOT be deemed "experimental" questions. If they were "experimental," the correct answer should have been available from our coding options. Ie, there should have been a "right" answer somewhere on the coding sheet...some people would get it right, some people wouldn't, and the ABIM could then see how valid the question/question wording was based on that response. I assume this is what they do with experimental questions - try them out in a formal testing scenario and see what percentage of people get the answer right...but who knows with the opacity of this test. Regardless, in this case, NO ONE could get the answer right...the option simply wasn't available. (Let's put to the side for a minute how relevant renal angiograms are to a general cardiologist. I trained at a high volume Big 10 academic center, spent 6 months in the cath lab during my first 2 years before deciding not to pursue interventional and never once saw a renal angiogram).

I also agree that the second day should be invalidated, and I don't see how you can convince a reasonable observer otherwise, once the "experimental question" red herring is tossed aside. These fools hold our careers in their hands, and somehow these egregious errors passed through (what I assume) are multiple layers of editors. We should all hold these people in utter contempt for their gross mismanagement of our livelihood.
 
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Taking out those questions for some people means that those people will have more weight on the other questions and have two less opportunities ( multiple points per question) to get points to pass. So the people with the questions that couldn't be answered are more likely to fail. There is NO way this can be made fair without disqualifying the entire day two. We learns stats; I took those course in university and use stats in research. They are banking on us being busy and not understanding standarizaitons/stats and blindly accepting the generic garbage they push in those emails. That email doesn't make sense. THEY DID NOT ANSWER MY EMAIL about showing proof of validation. How do we know its fair; because we have concrete evidence it's not with these questions. I will be sending them many more.

Additionally many other questions could not be answered that we didn't pick up on!. They can't obviously argue about these ones because the correct coding sheet wasn't provided. But they didn't comment on putting in a coronary sinus ASD! and not having that on the coding sheet; SAME! situation.
This is exactly it.

I agree with considering litigation too. There are many jobs where you simply cannot practice if you are not board certified (I just signed at one of them, actually), and a failure based on this exam represents a tremendous opportunity cost from lost salary.

I think the ABIM is feeling the heat. How unprecedented is that email we all got today? We need to keep the pressure on.
 
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agreed with you all. this company is a real monopoly in healthcare and wanted certain numbers of takers (10-20%) to fail and get their money in the next year or so. The exam doesn’t reflect anything clinical relevance. They always lobbied the hospital systems to accept their certification as a standard. We all have to come up together and pursue litigation. The truth will come up.
 
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I'm not a Cardiologist, but I am ABIM certified as a General Internist (I'm retired).

The ABIM is embroiled in other controversies, like concealing finance information and the horrid MOC crap that is likely going to be a menace to all those in this thread. I generally agree with the tenor of this thread. I have my own reasons for hating the ABIM.

Wes Fisher, Cardiologist in Chicago, has investigated the ABIM and outlines some of these issues in his blog. He outlines some potential ways to fight ABIM (his particular bent is toward MOC, but I think it's applicable in some way to this thread).

Those who listen to podcasts may be familiar with Chadi Nabhan's "Healthcare Unfiltered." There was a very recent episode with Bryan Carmody as guest (he runs the Sheriff of Sodium blog -- he's a pediatric nephrologist). He feels that a NYT-style expose won't work. The general population has very little sympathy for "rich" doctors who have money problems, when their health care costs are so high. Will Congress listen to doctors as opposed to their constituents (unless doctors lobby with $$$)? He thinks that litigation/legislation might be the way the ABIM may change.

Wes Fisher was also on Dr. Nabhan's blog in a very recent episode.

I'm not affiliated in any way with this podcast, but it is a fascinating look into Medicine policy, and Dr Nabhan gets great guests. He's gotten the heads of ABIM (Richard Baron, who recently announced his retirement), as well as the heads of SCAI (you interventional folks might know this society, the Society for Cardiovascular Angiography & Interventions) on recently regarding ABIM.
 
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This is exactly it.

I agree with considering litigation too. There are many jobs where you simply cannot practice if you are not board certified (I just signed at one of them, actually), and a failure based on this exam represents a tremendous opportunity cost from lost salary.

I think the ABIM is feeling the heat. How unprecedented is that email we all got today? We need to keep the pressure on.
100% agree. PLEASE send an email about invalidating day 2. (it takes 5 mins). They are feeling the heat.
[email protected]

I sent another email sharing information on our petition; we have 55 signatures. I also summaried points everyone posted here.

Please share link below on social media for more signatures.
https://www.change.org/p/disqualify-day-2-of-the-cardiovascular-board-exam-for-unfair-practices?recruiter=1065720169&recruited_by_id=baf60750-7072-11ea-8c53-1b4fb2683e8b&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_medium=copylink

If anyone ends up losing privileges or an employment contract due to results of these boards, ABIM will not do well in a legal battle. Their proposed fix is disastrous and doesn't make any sense.
 
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100% agree. PLEASE send an email about invalidating day 2. (it takes 5 mins). They are feeling the heat.
[email protected]

I sent another email sharing information on our petition; we have 55 signatures. I also summaried points everyone posted here.

Please share link below on social media for more signatures.
https://www.change.org/p/disqualify-day-2-of-the-cardiovascular-board-exam-for-unfair-practices?recruiter=1065720169&recruited_by_id=baf60750-7072-11ea-8c53-1b4fb2683e8b&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_medium=copylink

If anyone ends up losing privileges or an employment contract due to results of these boards, ABIM will not do well in a legal battle. Their proposed fix is disastrous and doesn't make any sense.
I will do that today..
 
100% agree. PLEASE send an email about invalidating day 2. (it takes 5 mins). They are feeling the heat.
[email protected]

I sent another email sharing information on our petition; we have 55 signatures. I also summaried points everyone posted here.

Please share link below on social media for more signatures.
https://www.change.org/p/disqualify-day-2-of-the-cardiovascular-board-exam-for-unfair-practices?recruiter=1065720169&recruited_by_id=baf60750-7072-11ea-8c53-1b4fb2683e8b&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_medium=copylink

If anyone ends up losing privileges or an employment contract due to results of these boards, ABIM will not do well in a legal battle. Their proposed fix is disastrous and doesn't make any sense.

We need more than 55 signatures..share with everyone
 
You guys got that email from ABIM regarding those 2 questions on 2nd day?
I have lost more faith in this test. No wonder what else is going on we don’t know about. This was after all the emails that were sent to ABIM

What was this email? What did it say?
 
I was the under the impression everyone got the "experimental" questions. It would be wrong to give some people the questions and not others. That would make the exam unfair.
I think they do, but people get different ones.
 
100% agree. PLEASE send an email about invalidating day 2. (it takes 5 mins). They are feeling the heat.
[email protected]

I sent another email sharing information on our petition; we have 55 signatures. I also summaried points everyone posted here.

Please share link below on social media for more signatures.
https://www.change.org/p/disqualify-day-2-of-the-cardiovascular-board-exam-for-unfair-practices?recruiter=1065720169&recruited_by_id=baf60750-7072-11ea-8c53-1b4fb2683e8b&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_medium=copylink

If anyone ends up losing privileges or an employment contract due to results of these boards, ABIM will not do well in a legal battle. Their proposed fix is disastrous and doesn't make any sense.
Sent just now
 
ABIM is only good with generic replies and solutions for their disasters! Disqualifying / not scoring these 2 angiograms does nothing but actually harming the group of exam takers who got them compared to the other group, and puts more weight on other questions (we don’t even know if these 2 questions points will still be given to other cath questions? or can be for example given to echo or EKG?)

In any ways, these were the only 2 obvious errors we caught cause was as obvious as not having proper coding sheet for the anatomical findings plus not every exam taker got them! Who knows what the errors we are unable to identify based on our tight time and stress during day 2? Who knows these low quality blur EKG strips what errors they have? Who knows what ABIM decides what is the correct diagnosis and what we should have coded for vs what actually is in that EKG? Disqualifying entire day 2 is the least fair thing to do this year, and moving forward cardiologists would either have a board from ACC or if we continue with ABIM then pass should be combined score day 1 and day 2 or at least if they wanna keep it a 2 days separate pass then exam takers should have the option to retake only the day they failed and for half of the cost!
 
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ABIM is only good with generic replies and solutions for their disasters! Disqualifying / not scoring these 2 angiograms does nothing but actually harming the group of exam takers who got them compared to the other group, and puts more weight on other questions (we don’t even know if these 2 questions points will still be given to other cath questions? or can be for example given to echo or EKG?)

In any ways, these were the only 2 obvious errors we caught cause was as obvious as not having proper coding sheet for the anatomical findings plus not every exam taker got them! Who knows what the errors we are unable to identify based on our tight time and stress during day 2? Who knows these low quality blur EKG strips what errors they have? Who knows what ABIM decides what is the correct diagnosis and what we should have coded for vs what actually is in that EKG? Disqualifying entire day 2 is the least fair thing to do this year, and moving forward cardiologists would either have a board from ACC or if we continue with ABIM then pass should be combined score day 1 and day 2 or at least if they wanna keep it a 2 days separate pass then exam takers should have the option to retake only the day they failed and for half of the cost!
Well said! They should disqualify the second day at the least.
 
ABIM is only good with generic replies and solutions for their disasters! Disqualifying / not scoring these 2 angiograms does nothing but actually harming the group of exam takers who got them compared to the other group, and puts more weight on other questions (we don’t even know if these 2 questions points will still be given to other cath questions? or can be for example given to echo or EKG?)

In any ways, these were the only 2 obvious errors we caught cause was as obvious as not having proper coding sheet for the anatomical findings plus not every exam taker got them! Who knows what the errors we are unable to identify based on our tight time and stress during day 2? Who knows these low quality blur EKG strips what errors they have? Who knows what ABIM decides what is the correct diagnosis and what we should have coded for vs what actually is in that EKG? Disqualifying entire day 2 is the least fair thing to do this year, and moving forward cardiologists would either have a board from ACC or if we continue with ABIM then pass should be combined score day 1 and day 2 or at least if they wanna keep it a 2 days separate pass then exam takers should have the option to retake only the day they failed and for half of the cost!

It's a very punitive process and not even done well with a very poor quality exam. Absolutely no reason any doctor should be okay with this. Board certification was meant to be voluntary, not a requirement. Now it's career determining.
 
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It's a very punitive process and not even done well with a very poor quality exam. Absolutely no reason any doctor should be okay with this. Board certification was meant to be voluntary, not a requirement. Now it's career determining.

what's really our solution here? yes, we can send e-mails and sign petitions. yes, they're trying to make another CV board. but for now, if you fail the cards boards or any other abomination the f*kcing ABIM subjects us to, we are screwed. destroys your confidence, you lose another 2,500 - 3,000 dollars, and you have to take their faulty, farce of an "exam" again. and it's not like we didn't study. we did. but ABIM is a effectively a fascist organization that we are powerless against.
 
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what's really our solution here? yes, we can send e-mails and sign petitions. yes, they're trying to make another CV board. but for now, if you fail the cards boards or any other abomination the f*kcing ABIM subjects us to, we are screwed. destroys your confidence, you lose another 2,500 - 3,000 dollars, and you have to take their faulty, farce of an "exam" again. and it's not like we didn't study. we did. but ABIM is a effectively a fascist organization that we are powerless against.
right there is nth we can do..they will do whatever they think is right
 
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I think ABIM will have to be very careful with our examination and scores. If people do poorly this year, there is no reason that people will not move over to the new cardiology board exam
 
Can definitely do something; there is concrete evidence of their failure that they admitted to and a solution that is objectively unfair to those who got those questions. If anyone has concrete negative outcomes from failing day two ( such as employment loss; privileges loss); ABIM will have a major multimillion dollar law suit they won't win. Especially for the people who passed echocardigoram boards; which further proves their faulty testing. This is an easy win.
They are counting on doctors being doctors; busy with medicine, not taking any action.
 
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For the angiograms: Did you code for every vessel? I only coded for significant disease and the main issue being shown to avoid overcoding but talking to other people seems like have to code for every coronary vessel. Argh...
 
ABIM is missing the big picture. Cardiology is the only ABIM subspecialty with 2 subsequent days of testing. It also has the most specialty exams growing each year (echo, nuclear, vascular, CT, interventional or EP if you go on to super specialize). GI is a 3 year fellowship with one day of testing; Pulm/Crit and Heme/Onc have 2 separate exam days for 2 separate curricula: they are offered as a single day at different times of the year and your performance on one does not affect your ability to take the other.

However, cardiology boards offers a second imaging day with a poorly understood scoring system (also expressed by nationally recognized courses such as Mayo. Somehow, you can fail a single section of the second day and invalidate 10 hours of testing the day prior. This year, they have made it clear with blatant errors that the test is poorly made and carelessly constructed. You should not be able to take day 2 if you failed day 1 and you should not fail day 1 based on day 2. Having to take the boards twice leads to a significant financial burden (paying for a $2500 exam, review courses and other resources) onto a population of people drowning in student debt. It also imposes a time constraint on those in a demanding career with limited time. (Not to mention trying to recruit and maintain women of childbearing years while also expecting them to participate in a once yearly 15 hour exam with significant career determining consequences.)

This needs to change.
 
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ABIM is missing the big picture. Cardiology is the only ABIM subspecialty with 2 subsequent days of testing. It also has the most specialty exams growing each year (echo, nuclear, vascular, CT, interventional or EP if you go on to super specialize). GI is a 3 year fellowship with one day of testing; Pulm/Crit and Heme/Onc have 2 separate exam days for 2 separate curricula: they are offered as a single day at different times of the year and your performance on one does not affect your ability to take the other.

However, cardiology boards offers a second imaging day with a poorly understood scoring system (also expressed by nationally recognized courses such as Mayo. Somehow, you can fail a single section of the second day and invalidate 10 hours of testing the day prior. This year, they have made it clear with blatant errors that the test is poorly made and carelessly constructed. You should not be able to take day 2 if you failed day 1 and you should not fail day 1 based on day 2. Having to take the boards twice leads to a significant financial burden (paying for a $2500 exam, review courses and other resources) onto a population of people drowning in student debt. It also imposes a time constraint on those in a demanding career with limited time. (Not to mention trying to recruit and maintain women of childbearing years while also expecting them to participate in a once yearly 15 hour exam with significant career determining consequences.)

This needs to change.

I could not agree more. Well-said. As I've mentioned earlier, what you guys experienced with the cardiology boards is pretty similar to what I experienced with EP boards. So even if, by the grace of God, you pass the abomination that is the cardiology boards, you have to go through it all over again with EP, which really is still an awful test that does not represent much of actual EP. the ABIM is following the same template of faulty, impractical, predatory "exams" for all of cardiology boards.
 
Can definitely do something; there is concrete evidence of their failure that they admitted to and a solution that is objectively unfair to those who got those questions. If anyone has concrete negative outcomes from failing day two ( such as employment loss; privileges loss); ABIM will have a major multimillion dollar law suit they won't win. Especially for the people who passed echocardigoram boards; which further proves their faulty testing. This is an easy win.
They are counting on doctors being doctors; busy with medicine, not taking any action.

I appreciate what you're saying and agree that something needs to be done. for most initial test takers, though, there probably won't be employment or privilege loss since you're given up to 3 years to pass the boards at most places. so again, you have to get your confidence destroyed, re-study, re-pay 2500-3000 dollars, and still undergo the ABIM torture for a second time just so that the ABIM can continue their fascist policing of doctors.
 
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84 signatures, lets get to a 100
Hell, I signed it and I’m a rheumatologist. I took the ABIM rheum boards the same week you guys did and that test was complete garbage. Absolutely riddled with bizarre typos, formatting errors, blurry and unreadable images, etc. Same exact nonsense you guys dealt with.
 
We all need to speak up. ABIM must GO!! This is the right time. Guys lets share this tweet and spread this good news !!



It’s time for a board of our own! ACC, @SCAI, @HFSA& @HRSonline are uniting to request a new, independent medical board for CV medicine that would move away from #MOC and pursue a new competency approach to continuous certification. Learn more: http://cvboard.org.
 
So eventually 5 weeks to second day is next Tuesday? Unless they decide to release after 4 weeks which makes it today?
 
So eventually 5 weeks to second day is next Tuesday? Unless they decide to release after 4 weeks which makes it today?

if anything they're going to release it late after that debacle, doubt it'll be released early
 
if anything they're going to release it late after that debacle, doubt it'll be released early

Ha, I doubt ABIM sees their tactics and fascism as a debacle. It’s just part of what the “examinee” undergoes as part of a highly pleasant “examination” consisting of very well-thought out, “standardized items.” They’ll just say it was a “test question,” like all the other bizarre, unfair, poor “test questions” that apparently are okay to put on a so-called “standardized test.” The “examinees” - aka, us losers - can go f**k themselves, as far as the ABIM is concerned. They’ll release it whenever they’re able to get off their fat, entitled, criminal asses. Your career, your well-being, your work is of no concern to them whatsoever.
 
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I'm concerned about the lack of transparency regarding Day 2. Yes, the errors are inexcusable, egregious, and I'm not sure how this organization can claim fairness in any way. It is insulting that they are. But even before such a blatant mistake was made...there is actually no guideline or instruction on the "right" way to code on Day 2. It is not something we do *anywhere else* in the field of cardiology, but is an artificial system made up only for this test. Yet...they don't publish parameters? Instructions? Definitions? Do you code a vessel that you can sort of see but is never engaged? Do you code a native severe that is bypassed? Do you code insignificant if there are little lumps and bumps, or nothing? For echo...do you comment on chamber sizes or EF if clear standard views or measurements aren't provided? Who knows! The ECG portion is a touch less offensive purely because there are resources like ecgsource or Okeefe to suggest what "right" might be - although even those resources conflict. For echo and cath? Total black box. There is significant interobserver variability when it comes to stenosis assessment, EF assessment etc. I had several coronary angiograms with lesions that felt profoundly borderline to me. I probably coded them "wrong." Take the theoretical example of a tight left main. Say narrowing looks to be more than 50% but perhaps not so high as 75% relative to the native lumen. Are they going for moderate or severe? Does it matter, if a left main lesion above 50% is clinically significant? But some people may put severe, and others may put moderate, and clinically it is the same, but someone is "wrong". Inability to trust eyesight is why OCT and IVUS were invented, after all.

I know of colleagues/acquaintances who have failed this examination, all for day 2, and all suffering negative job implications. I suspect this faulty testing method has persisted because every year the majority of people pass and move on with their lives and everyone's just too exhausted to expend further energy pointing out how inappropriate this is. I really feel for anyone who may not pass... the associated (misplaced, because this test is garbage) shame, financial loss, and kick to the confidence is unnecessary and could be avoided.

Has anyone failed a test along this (long, long) journey in the past or know of colleagues who have endured that? It gifts the individual depression, heightened anxiety, stress...even before discussing the financial losses and career implications. It is not something to be taken lightly. You'd expect true, full transparency and utter fairness if that may be the consequence. I'm sure no one here disputes the need to set the performance bar high for ourselves and our colleagues. But....the pass rates have fallen steadily over the past few years, and there is no satisfactory response regarding basic inquiries surrounding methods, test validation, or fairness. Unfortunately, that respect is not afford to us.
 
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I'm concerned about the lack of transparency regarding Day 2. Yes, the errors are inexcusable, egregious, and I'm not sure how this organization can claim fairness in any way. It is insulting that they are. But even before such a blatant mistake was made...there is actually no guideline or instruction on the "right" way to code on Day 2. It is not something we do *anywhere else* in the field of cardiology, but is an artificial system made up only for this test. Yet...they don't publish parameters? Instructions? Definitions? Do you code a vessel that you can sort of see but is never engaged? Do you code a native severe that is bypassed? Do you code insignificant if there are little lumps and bumps, or nothing? For echo...do you comment on chamber sizes or EF if clear standard views or measurements aren't provided? Who knows! The ECG portion is a touch less offensive purely because there are resources like ecgsource or Okeefe to suggest what "right" might be - although even those resources conflict. For echo and cath? Total black box. There is significant interobserver variability when it comes to stenosis assessment, EF assessment etc. I had several coronary angiograms with lesions that felt profoundly borderline to me. I probably coded them "wrong." Take the theoretical example of a tight left main. Say narrowing looks to be more than 50% but perhaps not so high as 75% relative to the native lumen. Are they going for moderate or severe? Does it matter, if a left main lesion above 50% is clinically significant? But some people may put severe, and others may put moderate, and clinically it is the same, but someone is "wrong". Inability to trust eyesight is why OCT and IVUS were invented, after all.

I know of colleagues/acquaintances who have failed this examination, all for day 2, and all suffering negative job implications. I suspect this faulty testing method has persisted because every year the majority of people pass and move on with their lives and everyone's just too exhausted to expend further energy pointing out how inappropriate this is. I really feel for anyone who may not pass... the associated (misplaced, because this test is garbage) shame, financial loss, and kick to the confidence is unnecessary and could be avoided.

Has anyone failed a test along this (long, long) journey in the past or know of colleagues who have endured that? It gifts the individual depression, heightened anxiety, stress...even before discussing the financial losses and career implications. It is not something to be taken lightly. You'd expect true, full transparency and utter fairness if that may be the consequence. I'm sure no one here disputes the need to set the performance bar high for ourselves and our colleagues. But....the pass rates have fallen steadily over the past few years, and there is no satisfactory response regarding basic inquiries surrounding methods, test validation, or fairness. Unfortunately, that respect is not afford to us.

It's crazy no one knows how to code for day 2, not even Mayo review course faculty who do a terrible job preparing for this section. Youre right majority of people will pass and move on but it's really not acceptable, it's not at all how cardiology is practiced either.
 
I'm concerned about the lack of transparency regarding Day 2. Yes, the errors are inexcusable, egregious, and I'm not sure how this organization can claim fairness in any way. It is insulting that they are. But even before such a blatant mistake was made...there is actually no guideline or instruction on the "right" way to code on Day 2. It is not something we do *anywhere else* in the field of cardiology, but is an artificial system made up only for this test. Yet...they don't publish parameters? Instructions? Definitions? Do you code a vessel that you can sort of see but is never engaged? Do you code a native severe that is bypassed? Do you code insignificant if there are little lumps and bumps, or nothing? For echo...do you comment on chamber sizes or EF if clear standard views or measurements aren't provided? Who knows! The ECG portion is a touch less offensive purely because there are resources like ecgsource or Okeefe to suggest what "right" might be - although even those resources conflict. For echo and cath? Total black box. There is significant interobserver variability when it comes to stenosis assessment, EF assessment etc. I had several coronary angiograms with lesions that felt profoundly borderline to me. I probably coded them "wrong." Take the theoretical example of a tight left main. Say narrowing looks to be more than 50% but perhaps not so high as 75% relative to the native lumen. Are they going for moderate or severe? Does it matter, if a left main lesion above 50% is clinically significant? But some people may put severe, and others may put moderate, and clinically it is the same, but someone is "wrong". Inability to trust eyesight is why OCT and IVUS were invented, after all.

I know of colleagues/acquaintances who have failed this examination, all for day 2, and all suffering negative job implications. I suspect this faulty testing method has persisted because every year the majority of people pass and move on with their lives and everyone's just too exhausted to expend further energy pointing out how inappropriate this is. I really feel for anyone who may not pass... the associated (misplaced, because this test is garbage) shame, financial loss, and kick to the confidence is unnecessary and could be avoided.

Has anyone failed a test along this (long, long) journey in the past or know of colleagues who have endured that? It gifts the individual depression, heightened anxiety, stress...even before discussing the financial losses and career implications. It is not something to be taken lightly. You'd expect true, full transparency and utter fairness if that may be the consequence. I'm sure no one here disputes the need to set the performance bar high for ourselves and our colleagues. But....the pass rates have fallen steadily over the past few years, and there is no satisfactory response regarding basic inquiries surrounding methods, test validation, or fairness. Unfortunately, that respect is not afford to us.

Very well-said. Could not agree more. The bigger issues you’re describing, by the way, apply to other cardiology sub-specialty exams too.
 
Can I ask what job implications this might cause? I think we are needed almost everywhere that they will sign us without being boarded? I hope we all pass but I just want to not feel like it's the end if any of us fails!
 
Can I ask what job implications this might cause? I think we are needed almost everywhere that they will sign us without being boarded? I hope we all pass but I just want to not feel like it's the end if any of us fails!

It won’t be the end but you’ll have to get boarded before your “board eligibility” runs out (?3 years).

I sure wouldn’t want to be a doc 4-5 years out not boarded and trying to get a job.. or privileges.. or taking the stand when a lawyer points that out to the jury.
 
It won’t be the end but you’ll have to get boarded before your “board eligibility” runs out (?3 years).

I sure wouldn’t want to be a doc 4-5 years out not boarded and trying to get a job.. or privileges.. or taking the stand when a lawyer points that out to the jury.

ABIM has a 7 years of board eligiblity starting the day you end your fellowship before you lose eligibility status but yes many hospitals or job contracts specify that you have to pass the exam within 2-3 years of starting the job.
 
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