Game over?

[MADD!!!]

Dude it's all about what you do with your degree. I know FM docs that are pulling 500k+ (could be close to 1Mil) and Orthopedic Surgeons and Dermatologists not even making 300k.

The Derm guy I know has been having trouble for a while generating patients, while I see another FM doc (DO) who claims to be a Derm expert, specializing in cosmetic Derm, makes her own creams and ships them to ppl's houses.

Ortho is one of those fields where you really need connections to get an in with patients. Where you do your residency and fellowships, as well as being an MD vs DO, help you get certain jobs or be hired part of medical groups.

These numbers you guys read really have little meaning as there is so much variance.

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[MADD!!!]

I think FM is on the rise in terms of lucrativeness.... get more patients, hire more PA's to see the patients and see patients yourself/be oversight for more difficult cases, expand your practice.

Open more sites and repeat.

 

[sunealoneal]

Are these as difficult to match as ENT and the surgical specialties nowadays?

Ophthalmology is a surgical subspecialty, yes.

 

[68PGunner]

Dude it's all about what you do with your degree. I know FM docs that are pulling 500k+ (could be close to 1Mil) and Orthopedic Surgeons and Dermatologists not even making 300k.

The Derm guy I know has been having trouble for a while generating patients, while I see another FM doc (DO) who claims to be a Derm expert, specializing in cosmetic Derm, makes her own creams and ships them to ppl's houses.

Ortho is one of those fields where you really need connections to get an in with patients. Where you do your residency and fellowships, as well as being an MD vs DO, help you get certain jobs or be hired part of medical groups.

These numbers you guys read really have little meaning as there is so much variance.

Your pay is certainly tied to your volume in every specialty. I think the current compensation for FM in term of pts seen/day relative to pay is of the following:

20-25 pts/day = 200K-280K/yr depending on your location
28-32 pts/day = 280-340K/yr depending on your location
40-50 pts/day = 400-550K/yr depending on your location

Personally, I'm not planning to sell my soul to the $$$ when I make it to attending status.

 

[MADD!!!]

Your pay is certainly tied to your volume in every specialty. I think the current compensation for FM in term of pts seen/day relative to pay is of the following:

20-25 pts/day = 200K-280K/yr depending on your location
28-32 pts/day = 280-340K/yr depending on your location
40-50 pts/day = 400-550K/yr depending on your location

Personally, I'm not planning to sell my soul to the $$$ when I make it to attending status.

How about if you hire more PA's to see patients?

 

[68PGunner]

How about if you hire more PA's to see patients?

That means running a business. Don't underestimate the amount of time spent into managing a successful operation. Personally, I could do this considering my background in finance. However, I know that it's not a cinch. At this point of my life, I just want to net 250-280K/yr while paying minimal tax and working min hours. I'm pretty good with investing money with an annual return of 10+% annual return min, so I rather utilize that ability instead.

 

[67552931811]

Basing my info on old 2010 MGMA reports, you will definitely go over 500k with a pain fellowship even now. Would have to check on radiology's compensation, but there were definitely radiologist who netted 500k earlier this decade without fellowship.

2016 mgma has median (for all physicians, so pp and academic) for diagnostic rads at 478 and and 453 for gas.

People should just get the data instead of entertaining these threads filled with pointless opinions (not talking about you).

 

[67552931811]

Dx Rad doesn't crack 500k even w a mammo fellowship and 60 hrs week.

Gas w pain will probably net you 400-450 K max.

You should try looking at actual data instead of just pulling info out of your ass.

 

[68PGunner]

You should try looking at actual data instead of just pulling info out of your ass.

The numbers I quote come from my convo with actual attending physicians in the field, which fall in line with your quoted range. However, MGMA tend to overstate the numbers a little bit from what my convo with actual attendings.

 

[sunealoneal]

MGMA tend to overstate the numbers a little bit

I've been told literally the exact opposite.

 

[FistLength]

I started research the day summer break started. They paid me (although I initially said I would do volunteer basis...), I got to present at major conferences (paid for by school), made awesome connections. My adviser knew I got my work done so he was cool with letting me take time to travel. Research is VERY hit or miss. You can spend a lot of energy and get squat or be productive and get some value out of your time. Plus, once you finish a project, you can keep coming back to it for further posters/publications, as most of the groundwork is already completed. I generally encourage trying to do some research, the process itself can be boring but when you finally finish it's really gratifying.

I loved what I did and wouldn't change a thing.

 

[Ngo3]

Your pay is certainly tied to your volume in every specialty. I think the current compensation for FM in term of pts seen/day relative to pay is of the following:

20-25 pts/day = 200K-280K/yr depending on your location
28-32 pts/day = 280-340K/yr depending on your location
40-50 pts/day = 400-550K/yr depending on your location

Personally, I'm not planning to sell my soul to the $$$ when I make it to attending status.

No way, if you aren't a superstar as a DO (like 80-90% of DOs), you are pretty much pigeonholed into primary care (something that MD students dont want) that wont be paying more than 200K - 250 K for what you do.

I have actually read how MD PDs shy away from taking DOs because it would make their program seem "less competitive"

If you arent a superstar as a DO, you are pretty much relegated to low paying specialties (or unmatched). Say hello to all those family medicine, pediatrics, and internal medicine somewhere out where no one wants to live.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

No way, if you aren't a superstar as a DO (like 80-90% of DOs), you are pretty much pigeonholed into primary care (something that MD students dont want) that wont be paying more than 200K - 250 K for what you do.

I have actually read how MD PDs shy away from taking DOs because it would make their program seem "less competitive"

If you arent a superstar as a DO, you are pretty much relegated to low paying specialties (or unmatched). Say hello to all those family medicine, pediatrics, and internal medicine somewhere out where no one wants to live.

Thanks for wasting our time. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

 

[YouWithTheHair]

No way, if you aren't a superstar as a DO (like 80-90% of DOs), you are pretty much pigeonholed into primary care (something that MD students dont want) that wont be paying more than 200K - 250 K for what you do.

I have actually read how MD PDs shy away from taking DOs because it would make their program seem "less competitive"

If you arent a superstar as a DO, you are pretty much relegated to low paying specialties (or unmatched). Say hello to all those family medicine, pediatrics, and internal medicine somewhere out where no one wants to live.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and raise the Troll alarm.... that or you're clueless pre-med with a know-it-all attitude.

 

[Brorthopedic]

No way, if you aren't a superstar as a DO (like 80-90% of DOs), you are pretty much pigeonholed into primary care (something that MD students dont want) that wont be paying more than 200K - 250 K for what you do.

I have actually read how MD PDs shy away from taking DOs because it would make their program seem "less competitive"

If you arent a superstar as a DO, you are pretty much relegated to low paying specialties (or unmatched). Say hello to all those family medicine, pediatrics, and internal medicine somewhere out where no one wants to live.

Jesus kid, you honestly suck as a person.

 

[Ngo3]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and raise the Troll alarm.... that or you're clueless pre-med with a know-it-all attitude.

Nope, DO medical student same as you all. Hey, just what I gathered from multiple sources other than just sdn. Sorry to hurt your guys' feelings.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

No way, if you aren't a superstar as a DO (like 80-90% of DOs), you are pretty much pigeonholed into primary care (something that MD students dont want) that wont be paying more than 200K - 250 K for what you do.

If you arent a superstar as a DO, you are pretty much relegated to low paying specialties (or unmatched). Say hello to all those family medicine, pediatrics, and internal medicine somewhere out where no one wants to live.

 

[YouWithTheHair]

Nope, DO medical student same as you all. Hey, just what I gathered from multiple sources other than just sdn. Sorry to hurt your guys' feelings.

No feelings hurt. Your responses are just so incredulous and uninformed, it's hard to believe we're not being trolled. All you'd have to do is look at some DO school match lists to realize how inaccurate your later comments have been.

 

[Brorthopedic]

Nope, DO medical student same as you all. Hey, just what I gathered from multiple sources other than just sdn. Sorry to hurt your guys' feelings.

It's not that your sources are hurtful. It's the fact that you think being a FM/IM/Peds physician making 200k-250k is a bad thing. Your personality and outlook on life sucks, I can't imagine people actually enjoying your company

 

[68PGunner]

No way, if you aren't a superstar as a DO (like 80-90% of DOs), you are pretty much pigeonholed into primary care (something that MD students dont want) that wont be paying more than 200K - 250 K for what you do.

I have actually read how MD PDs shy away from taking DOs because it would make their program seem "less competitive"

If you arent a superstar as a DO, you are pretty much relegated to low paying specialties (or unmatched). Say hello to all those family medicine, pediatrics, and internal medicine somewhere out where no one wants to live.

I guess that you're just a pleb in comparison to the DO royalties in this thread. It's time for you to accept the reality that a match to a family medicine residency in the Dakotas or Wyoming is even a reach for you.

 

[67552931811]

No way, if you aren't a superstar as a DO (like 80-90% of DOs), you are pretty much pigeonholed into primary care (something that MD students dont want) that wont be paying more than 200K - 250 K for what you do.

I have actually read how MD PDs shy away from taking DOs because it would make their program seem "less competitive"

If you arent a superstar as a DO, you are pretty much relegated to low paying specialties (or unmatched). Say hello to all those family medicine, pediatrics, and internal medicine somewhere out where no one wants to live.

I can't tell if you're more clueless or more idiotic. My money is on the former.

 

[YouWithTheHair]

I guess that you're just a pleb in comparison to the DO royalties in this thread. It's time for you to accept a family medicine residency in the Dakotas or Wyoming in your future.

.... bow to us, pleb!

 

[Ngo3]

Please prove me wrong about what I said.

I can't tell if you're more clueless or more idiotic. My money is on the former.

 

[YouWithTheHair]

Please prove me wrong about what I said.

I don't know which of my meme heroes to follow!

 

[Pavis]

Yes. You should immediately apply to the nearest Wendys. Don't even bother coming back to school. You're not even good enough for Mcdonalds.




Seriously though take your summer to chill.

Heyyy...Wendy's makes a mean spicy chicken nugget.

 

[YouWithTheHair]

Heyyy...Wendy's makes a mean spicy chicken nugget.

OP probably doesn't believe in Wendy's if you're less than a superstar...

 

[Ngo3]

OP probably doesn't believe in Wendy's if you're less than a superstar...

Damn, you're really invested in this thread. I'm guessing you just got accepted into medical school and don't want to believe some drawbacks that DOs have to deal with.

 

[YouWithTheHair]

Damn, you're really invested in this thread. I'm guessing you just got accepted into medical school and don't want to believe some drawbacks that DOs have to deal with.

... Just read my first response to your original post. This is just me killing time after matching . When else would I have time to feed the SDN trolls?

 

[Ngo3]

... Just read my first response to your original post. This is just me killing time after matching . When else would I have time to feed the SDN trolls?

Well, I look stupid, congratulations on matching.

 

[Aonyx]

If you don't really want to do anything with your summer, and you shouldn't. I didn't. Find a good volunteering gig a couple of days per week. I volunteered at an inner city community center teaching math and reading comprehension to 2nd or 3rd graders for all of 4-6 hours per week. I also learned how to make cheese and that coriander and cilantro come from the same plant (who knew?). It was a cool experience and I still had a summer. Find a second place you can volunteer at for a couple days per month. I personally couldn't afford to go on a mission trip to save the people of Guatemala, but my CV still had some things that I could talk about. I matched into something that isn't IM/FM/Peds.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Nope, DO medical student same as you all. Hey, just what I gathered from multiple sources other than just sdn. Sorry to hurt your guys' feelings.

Pretty sure none of which are NRMP data...

 

[MADD!!!]

No way, if you aren't a superstar as a DO (like 80-90% of DOs), you are pretty much pigeonholed into primary care (something that MD students dont want) that wont be paying more than 200K - 250 K for what you do.

I have actually read how MD PDs shy away from taking DOs because it would make their program seem "less competitive"

If you arent a superstar as a DO, you are pretty much relegated to low paying specialties (or unmatched). Say hello to all those family medicine, pediatrics, and internal medicine somewhere out where no one wants to live.

You are ill informed... Are you an accepted medical student? This is the information I'd expect to hear from a freshman in their first week of college wanting to be pre-med.

A very superficial, incorrect, and stereotypical status.

 

[hallowmann]

Lets take a step back. No one is bringing up actual data. Forget the fact that Peds, IM, and FM are actually fields that a lot of people want to go into and a whole heck of a lot of DOs go into them in great locations (check out the DO match lists).

Even if we just talk about the NRMP, which in 2016 represented the ace where ~45% of DOs attained GME, half of those DOs went into fields other than FM/IM/Peds. That's ~22.5%. Even if you assume those are the top DOs (most are not) it still tears down that 80-90% claim.

Then you go to the NMS match, at least 40% of the DOs that fill those spots are going into non-FM/IM/Peds fields. That's another 22%+. We're talking a minimum of 45% of all DOs enter fields other than FM/IM/Peds.

80-90% going into FM/IM/Peds in places MDs wouldn't dare to venture is just a ridiculous claim that is grossly uninformed. It makes me question whether that poster even has "sources" or whether those sources have any idea what they're talking about.

 

[Mad Jack]

So Derm, Opthalmology, and Rad Onc def make the cut. Gas doesn't crack 500K a year.

Most dermatologists doubt make 500k a year. They easily can, but most would rather work less hours than required for that kind of salary. Anesthesia can break 500k, in the right area and position.

 

[Mad Jack]

No way, if you aren't a superstar as a DO (like 80-90% of DOs), you are pretty much pigeonholed into primary care (something that MD students dont want) that wont be paying more than 200K - 250 K for what you do.

I have actually read how MD PDs shy away from taking DOs because it would make their program seem "less competitive"

If you arent a superstar as a DO, you are pretty much relegated to low paying specialties (or unmatched). Say hello to all those family medicine, pediatrics, and internal medicine somewhere out where no one wants to live.

It's almost like you don't know anything, but still somehow manage to put words together in a way that implies you do.

 

[Mad Jack]

I think FM is on the rise in terms of lucrativeness.... get more patients, hire more PA's to see the patients and see patients yourself/be oversight for more difficult cases, expand your practice.

Open more sites and repeat.

Plenty of local offers in the 300k range, as hospitals have bought up outpatient offices for revenue capture and are willing to pay a premium to control referrals.

 

[Seth Joo]

Almost no one at my school did anything during our 1 month vacation in between oms1 and oms2. We have consecutively have the best match lists of DO schools.

Only one month? My school gave students 3 months between year 1 and 2. I guess that gave students in my school a lot of flexibility to use their summer.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Only one month? My school gave students 3 months between year 1 and 2. I guess that gave students in my school a lot of flexibility to use their summer.

Yah, it's not enough time. But the school's paradigm is a military curriculum. I.e everyone follows the same pathway without modification.

 

[McDreamy123]

That means running a business. Don't underestimate the amount of time spent into managing a successful operation. Personally, I could do this considering my background in finance. However, I know that it's not a cinch. At this point of my life, I just want to net 250-280K/yr while paying minimal tax and working min hours. I'm pretty good with investing money with an annual return of 10+% annual return min, so I rather utilize that ability instead.

Talk to me more about netting a return of 10% on investments consistently...as doing so is very difficult.

 

[cryhavoc]

I'm going to go on several vacations this summer, run my first marathon, go sky-diving, read some books, go rock-climbing, practice the piano and volunteer. And sleep-in a lot.

I'm just going to cross my fingers and hope to God I don't need research to match psychiatry. Apply widely. If I don't match psych, I guess I'll take time off, do some research and retry. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

Otherwise, Carpe Aestatem!

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Based on what most of my colleagues are doing this summer (ie research) and how even fam med and psych start to become competitive, is it safe to say that for the DO students who are not doing anything this summer like research, their chance to get into something like general surgery (or anything competitive) is nonexistent? Given good boards, good clinical grades and lors but no research?

Pretty much time to settle for FM in Kentucky or do TRI.

 

[235009]

Why is it that a disproportionate number of threads on this forum of "holistic" DO students devolves into talking about compensation and which specialties make the most money??
Basically the two things talked about most here: (1) the ~dozen matches (out of 3000+ students) in neurosurgery/plastics/ophtho/etc each year and (2) how much money you can make.
You guys are SO into primary care, rural medicine, and serving patients!

 

[Robotfishbrain]

No way, if you aren't a superstar as a DO (like 80-90% of DOs), you are pretty much pigeonholed into primary care (something that MD students dont want) that wont be paying more than 200K - 250 K for what you do.

I have actually read how MD PDs shy away from taking DOs because it would make their program seem "less competitive"

If you arent a superstar as a DO, you are pretty much relegated to low paying specialties (or unmatched). Say hello to all those family medicine, pediatrics, and internal medicine somewhere out where no one wants to live.

Probably the dumbest post I've read here, and boy have I read some doozies. Low effort Trolling, I give it a D minus.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Most dermatologists doubt make 500k a year. They easily can, but most would rather work less hours than required for that kind of salary. Anesthesia can break 500k, in the right area and position.

What areas/positions is gas breaking 500k?

I want a semi-chill lifestyle, I want to return home to the beaches of socal, and ideally, I'd like to get paid - anything above 350k is perfect. I'm not adverse to taking locums assignments and traveling to less desirable areas to work. Let's assume my board scores are slightly above average. Can I do this in gas? Anything else recommended?

 

[yanks26dmb]

Why is it that a disproportionate number of threads on this forum of "holistic" DO students devolves into talking about compensation and which specialties make the most money??
Basically the two things talked about most here: (1) the ~dozen matches (out of 3000+ students) in neurosurgery/plastics/ophtho/etc each year and (2) how much money you can make.
You guys are SO into primary care, rural medicine, and serving patients!

Not all DO students fit the mold of their schools mission - obviously. I am SO NOT into primary care, rural, or doing anything that doesn't ethically maximize my potential income. Also a DO student. Ain't nothing wrong with any of that.

 

[Mad Jack]

What areas/positions is gas breaking 500k?

I want a semi-chill lifestyle, I want to return home to the beaches of socal, and ideally, I'd like to get paid - anything above 350k is perfect. I'm not adverse to taking locums assignments and traveling to less desirable areas to work. Let's assume my board scores are slightly above average. Can I do this in gas? Anything else recommended?

Go to the anesthesia forums and ask. Basically any place outside of a major metro will net you 350k, it's not hard to find.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Why is it that a disproportionate number of threads on this forum of "holistic" DO students devolves into talking about compensation and which specialties make the most money??
Basically the two things talked about most here: (1) the ~dozen matches (out of 3000+ students) in neurosurgery/plastics/ophtho/etc each year and (2) how much money you can make.
You guys are SO into primary care, rural medicine, and serving patients!

Nothing gets past you brah!

I know deep down inside you like this place better than the MD-student forums, you just don't want to admit it.

 

[235009]

Nothing gets past you brah!

I know deep down inside you like this place better than the MD-student forums, you just don't want to admit it.

it's certainly much more entertaining

 

[surfguy84]

it's certainly much more entertaining

And we all thank you for that.

 

[surfguy84]

Go to the anesthesia forums and ask. Basically any place outside of a major metro will net you 350k, it's not hard to find.

not so helpful over there...haha i just ask a similar Q in those forums..