Do you judge your overweight classmates?

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When I was out to dinner with my wife for valentine's day, the couple next to us kept talking repeatedly about how much they missed getting high. The woman said she had to stop doing drugs so that she could get a security clearance, and that she has been off for a year, but she just really misses weed and pills (I think MDMA). She then proceeded to tell the guy that she would never touch coke because it killed a family member. lol.


And meth is a great appetite suppressant. You don’t see many fat meth heads.

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So does anyone here recommend RYGB and sleeve gastrectomies to their patients? We do a ton in our OR’s and we have some staff who have had long lasting significant weight loss. Some you would never guess that they were obese at one time. It seems more effective than other weight loss programs and treatments.

Before med school when I was an OR tech, I scrubbed in on a lot of RYGBs and gastric bandings. From what I've seen, the gastric bandings have a higher failure rate, but it seems like the RYGBs usually see good success. There is some good data to support that too: https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa1700459

Here's a small cohort study on banding versus RYGB: Weight Loss Failure and Reoperation After Laparoscopic Adjustable Gastric Banding and Gastric Bypass: a Case-Matched Cohort Study
 
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Before med school when I was an OR tech, I scrubbed in on a lot of RYGBs and gastric bandings. From what I've seen, the gastric bandings have a higher failure rate, but it seems like the RYGBs usually see good success. There is some good data to support that too: https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa1700459

Here's a small cohort study on banding versus RYGB: Weight Loss Failure and Reoperation After Laparoscopic Adjustable Gastric Banding and Gastric Bypass: a Case-Matched Cohort Study


I agree RYGB is the most effective procedure and also has salutary metabolic effects. I wonder how often it is suggested or recommended by primary care doctors. Or if it is mostly patient driven.

Seems like a better option than blaming and judging obese people and should be 1st line treatment for severe obesity.
 
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I tend to think other interventions (to include cognitive behavioral therapy) need to utilized prior to gastric bypass. I’d even be in favor of medically supervised fasting over surgery, but again, I’m not a doctor, and I’m sure a patient would much rather have a procedure than to starve the weight off themselves (although fasting does get easier once your BHB levels hit the 6ish mmol mark).
 
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Are you saying that no one is able to successfully keep weight off by maintaining a strict diet?
In studies the rate of long term (> 1 year) medically significant (> 10 pound) weight loss with calorie restriction diets in adults (> 18 years) that aren't accompanied by strict medical management (no biweekly 1:1 nutritionists, no personal chefs) is basically zero. Not absolutely zero, but close.

There IS a success rate, though low, for children and adolescents. There is a success rate if you count a long term weight loss of 5 pounds as a success. There is a success rate if you are OK with never ending, nonstop therapy. Otherwise, though, no, the success rates in studies is consistently almost 0%
 
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I understand what your points were. You were copy/pasting select parts of sentences in conclusions that support your argument without critically analyzing the papers you were citing.

There are tons of shoddy papers with significant p values and part of our jobs is to determine if the study's design is appropriate, if the conclusions are valid, if the studies have any kind of external validity, if the study has internal validity, etc.

Yes very well said.
I actually didn’t really start significantly analyzing papers with a critical eye until residency. Even now as an attending it’s still a work in progress for me. You can pretty much find anything on google these days, so being critical is crucial.
 
I understand what your points were. You were copy/pasting select parts of sentences in conclusions that support your argument without critically analyzing the papers you were citing.

There are tons of shoddy papers with significant p values and part of our jobs is to determine if the study's design is appropriate, if the conclusions are valid, if the studies have any kind of external validity, if the study has internal validity, etc.

Fair enough. I'll see what else I can find when time permits.
 
I tend to think other interventions (to include cognitive behavioral therapy) need to utilized prior to gastric bypass. I’d even be in favor of medically supervised fasting over surgery, but again, I’m not a doctor, and I’m sure a patient would much rather have a procedure than to starve the weight off themselves (although fasting does get easier once your BHB levels hit the 6ish mmol mark).

The surgeons I worked with had a fairly lengthy process to get approved to have the surgery, which included lifestyle changes.
 
The surgeons I worked with had a fairly lengthy process to get approved to have the surgery, which included lifestyle changes.

This is actually required by many insurance companies. The minimum time you are required to maintain a strict diet essentially similar to that after a roux-en-Y, undergo nutrition and psychological eval, etc is 3 mos for the best insurance and often 6 mos. You have to maintain a BMI >35 to have it done out here, and some people end up dropping below it with just the diet changes.

The longterm success rates for RYGB are greater than gastric sleeve, but so are severity of longterm complications from the surgery or non adherence to the diet. Personally, I try to discuss surgeries with most patients with a BMI >40 whom I'm talking with about weight management. It's pretty rare that people take me up on the referral. In fact, I think the only time a patient's wanted referral is when they've brought it up themselves.
 
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Wow... this whole thread is just...wow. Some people who have posted have clearly never struggled with their weight/weight loss or have been close to anyone who has struggled and it really shows. My weight has been an issue my entire life but my BMI isn’t at the point where I can get surgery (plus I simply don’t want surgery. Surgery is too risky to me personally). If I were to be in my normal BMI for my height, I would need to be between 90-110 pounds. I haven’t weighed that since like elementary school (I was already at my maximum height—im Quite short). Like the poster who said they would never be 135 pounds, I’m the same. Nor do I WANT to be 110 pounds—I have curves and I enjoy them ‍ and no one in my entire family weighs that little either. Could I lose some weight? Absolutely. Am I trying? As best I can but I’m a stress eater and medical school is stressful. I go meet with a personal trainer twice a week. I go to Zumba at least one other time a week. My blood work has *always* been excellent no matter what weight I’ve been at. I eat my fruits and veggies daily. I have really bad metabolism, my entire family does. My mother, aunts, grandmother all have struggled with weight themselves. Do I judge my classmates for being overweight, even those bigger than me? Absolutely not. We’re all going to be amazing doctors, our weight has absolutely nothing to do with it. Sometimes there are reasons that some women are overweight due to actual medical problems (hello PCOS!!). I’m not in medical school to judge others. I’m here to become an awesome doctor. There are better uses of all of our times than judging our classmate for being overweight or fat or whatever you want to call it.
 
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Wow... this whole thread is just...wow. Some people who have posted have clearly never struggled with their weight/weight loss or have been close to anyone who has struggled and it really shows. My weight has been an issue my entire life but my BMI isn’t at the point where I can get surgery (plus I simply don’t want surgery. Surgery is too risky to me personally). If I were to be in my normal BMI for my height, I would need to be between 90-110 pounds. I haven’t weighed that since like elementary school (I was already at my maximum height—im Quite short). Like the poster who said they would never be 135 pounds, I’m the same. Nor do I WANT to be 110 pounds—I have curves and I enjoy them ‍ and no one in my entire family weighs that little either. Could I lose some weight? Absolutely. Am I trying? As best I can but I’m a stress eater and medical school is stressful. I go meet with a personal trainer twice a week. I go to Zumba at least one other time a week. My blood work has *always* been excellent no matter what weight I’ve been at. I eat my fruits and veggies daily. I have really bad metabolism, my entire family does. My mother, aunts, grandmother all have struggled with weight themselves. Do I judge my classmates for being overweight, even those bigger than me? Absolutely not. We’re all going to be amazing doctors, our weight has absolutely nothing to do with it. Sometimes there are reasons that some women are overweight due to actual medical problems (hello PCOS!!). I’m not in medical school to judge others. I’m here to become an awesome doctor. There are better uses of all of our times than judging our classmate for being overweight or fat or whatever you want to call it.

are you hispanic by chance?
 
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its complicated. I’m Portuguese. So not really Hispanic but sorta similar?

I know some Hispanics tend to be predisposed to metabolic issues and liver fat accumulation.

 
I know some Hispanics tend to be predisposed to metabolic issues and liver fat accumulation.


ya Im not sure if that applies to me since Portuguese is such a complicated thing when it comes to being Hispanic or not. US census bureau wants us to be considered Hispanic. Portuguese government doesn’t. I don’t speak Spanish and that’s essentially what defines Hispanics in a way lol but I’m definitely not Latina (Brazilians are). Not sure how accurate 23 and Me is but it did say that I’m predisposed to being overweight and having T2DM (so far so good, not even pre-diabetic, although my mom is and she’s 50 pounds lighter than me).

There’s a lot of factors that go into weight. It’s not that black and white. There’s genetics and psychology and hormones etc etc. i swear that sometimes if I breathe too much air, I gain 5 pounds thankfully I’ve never experienced any of the judgement from doctors that I know a lot of other overweight patients have experienced. Maybe it’s because I’m otherwise healthy? Because I do exercise and I have the knowledge and education I need to lose weight? I don’t know. But we shouldn’t be judging our classmates or our patients. We don’t know what others have been through and a lot of people won’t ever understand.
 
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ya Im not sure if that applies to me since Portuguese is such a complicated thing when it comes to being Hispanic or not. US census bureau wants us to be considered Hispanic. Portuguese government doesn’t. I don’t speak Spanish and that’s essentially what defines Hispanics in a way lol but I’m definitely not Latina (Brazilians are). Not sure how accurate 23 and Me is but it did say that I’m predisposed to being overweight and having T2DM (so far so good, not even pre-diabetic, although my mom is and she’s 50 pounds lighter than me).

There’s a lot of factors that go into weight. It’s not that black and white. There’s genetics and psychology and hormones etc etc. i swear that sometimes if I breathe too much air, I gain 5 pounds thankfully I’ve never experienced any of the judgement from doctors that I know a lot of other overweight patients have experienced. Maybe it’s because I’m otherwise healthy? Because I do exercise and I have the knowledge and education I need to lose weight? I don’t know. But we shouldn’t be judging our classmates or our patients. We don’t know what others have been through and a lot of people won’t ever understand.

I’d argue that your standard blood panel isn’t telling you much regarding your underlying health until you’ve been in less than optimal health (ie insulin resistant) for quite some time. Not to mention that as we get collectively unhealthier, the reference ranges for what is accepted as “normal” moves to what used to be considered abnormal/unhealthy.
 
I’d argue that your standard blood panel isn’t telling you much regarding your underlying health until you’ve been in less than optimal health (ie insulin resistant) for quite some time. Not to mention that as we get collectively unhealthier, the reference ranges for what is accepted as “normal” moves to what used to be considered abnormal/unhealthy.

All I know is that I’ve gotten blood work done less than 2 months ago and everything looked good and there’s nothing to be concerned about And there hasn’t been ever on any blood work I’ve gotten in my life. Again, I am trying to lose weight so I’ll be less overweight (I won’t ever be 110 pounds or less lol) but to get back to the point of the thread—theres No reason to be judging your overweight classmates.
 
I’m a fat slob since starting medical schol and resideny. About 75 pounds fatter than the first day of M1 (currently in my last few months of residency).

trying to lose weight now with intermittent fasting and its going well. But sadly this profession breeds unhealthiness thanks to the constant circadian disruptions of training. Also doesnt help that its stressful and a lot of people respond to it by shoving unhealthy garbage down their fat gullets. But the job definitely ages you, even if it doesnt make you fat. There were some girls, for example, that were highly attractive and fit when they began training but now are ugly as sin, looking older than stated age even without makeup
 
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I was almost 265 pounds, and 6 foot guy in college, during junior year, I went down to 165. Have maintained the weight for a while. I fluctuate a lot, throughout med school I was in the 180-190 range, now almost hitting the 200 mark, and need to stop eating from all the stress of match day. But people fluctuate, losing weight is so difficult, probably most difficult things I do. I have to watch my calories and excersise, and do Keto lifestyle. Tbh, patients love hearing about my story, and I have helped some overcome it. I do think, you have to be a role model for your patients. I dont judge heavier person, bc I know the struggle 100 percent, but its hard to trust a doctor who is overweight/obese, and they are telling the patient to lose weight. Its just my two cents, but I do hear ya. Its a struggle to lose weight! I love food, and its the hardest thing I have to do. Maintaining the weight and not going above the 200 pound mark for almost 7-8 years, has been one of the most difficult things I have ever done, even harder than medical school itself.
 
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Ive gained 30 lbs since i started med school (and 50 lbs since the middle of first year.. yikes). Losing weight is so hard. My metabolism sucks now. My white coat doesnt even come close to buttoning... embarrassing.
 
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I think seeing larger classmates and doctors should be a chance to empathize rather than judge.

Even the absolute brightest, hardest working people in the US are struggling with their lifestyle. It is so difficult to just “lose weight,” and lifestyle can be very hard to change.
 
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I’d argue that your standard blood panel isn’t telling you much regarding your underlying health until you’ve been in less than optimal health (ie insulin resistant) for quite some time. Not to mention that as we get collectively unhealthier, the reference ranges for what is accepted as “normal” moves to what used to be considered abnormal/unhealthy.

Why are you here giving unsolicited advice to us about our health/nutrition/weight?
 
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Not to mention that as we get collectively unhealthier, the reference ranges for what is accepted as “normal” moves to what used to be considered abnormal/unhealthy.

What previously abnormal values have been changed to normal?
 
Why are you here giving unsolicited advice to us about our health/nutrition/weight?

Two reasons. I genuinely want to open people’s eyes to what I feel is the true nature of the problem as there is so much bad information out there regarding the causes of weight gain and how to lose weight. Also because we’re all indirectly paying for complications further down the line (through higher premiums and/or taxes). Even if you’re metabolically healthy and overweight, you’re still looking at the potential for premature joint wear and tear/potential orthopedic surgery. For better or worse, individuals in our third party payer system are largely shielded from the true costs of their own care, but that’s a whole ‘nother can of worms.
 
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I think seeing larger classmates and doctors should be a chance to empathize rather than judge.

Even the absolute brightest, hardest working people in the US are struggling with their lifestyle. It is so difficult to just “lose weight,” and lifestyle can be very hard to change.

If I had legislative power to do any one thing, it would be to get rid of the agricultural subsidies that I feel are the driving force behind the processed food environment (and subsequent metabolic crisis) we have on our hands today.
 
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Two reasons. I genuinely want to open people’s eyes to what I feel is the true nature of the problem as there is so much bad information out there regarding the causes of weight gain and how to lose weight. Also because we’re all indirectly paying for complications further down the line (through higher premiums and/or taxes). Even if you’re metabolically healthy and overweight, you’re still looking at the potential for premature joint wear and tear/potential orthopedic surgery. For better or worse, individuals in our third party payer system are largely shielded from the true costs of their own care, but that’s a whole ‘nother can of worms.
1. If you aren't a physician or dietitian, you aren't qualified to give said advice.
2. Giving medical advice, solicited or otherwise, is against the TOS. You've already had one post removed.
 
1. If you aren't a physician or dietitian, you aren't qualified to give said advice.
2. Giving medical advice, solicited or otherwise, is against the TOS. You've already had one post removed.

Noted. Did you have something else to contribute? I was simply answering a question asked of me. No further dietary advice will be given, though I think it’s laughable to suggest a majority of physicians are qualified, given the abject failure we have as evidenced by our prevalence of diabesity. If anything, I hope what I’ve contributed to this thread inspires people to take a deeper dive into this. I find the discussion about judging classmates their weight superficial, but also provides a great audience to have a more nuanced discussion. I also realize it’s probably derailing the thread, so I’m out. Y’all take care.
 
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Noted. Did you have something else to contribute? I was simply answering a question asked of me.
You know, I hate it when people ask that. It presupposes that their contribution was of any value to begin with.
No further dietary advice will be given, though I think it’s laughable to suggest a majority of physicians are qualified, given the abject failure we have as evidenced by our prevalence of diabesity.
That's quite an assertion. Do you have any evidence?
 
You know, I hate it when people ask that. It presupposes that their contribution was of any value to begin with.

That's quite an assertion. Do you have any evidence?
Is this a serious question?

First, there is almost no nutrition training in med school/residency so there is no reason to assume we are any good at it.

Second, much of what we've historically taught is wrong (food pyramid anyone?).
 
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Is this a serious question?

First, there is almost no nutrition training in med school/residency so there is no reason to assume we are any good at it.

Second, much of what we've historically taught is wrong (food pyramid anyone?).

Would love for that to change with the dying Step mania, personally!
 
Is this a serious question?

First, there is almost no nutrition training in med school/residency so there is no reason to assume we are any good at it.

Second, much of what we've historically taught is wrong (food pyramid anyone?).
I am being serious. Even if physicians have little to no training in nutrition, does that mean the prevalence of obesity/diabetes was caused by it? The post to which I responded phrased it as being the failure of the physicians.
 
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Is this a serious question?

First, there is almost no nutrition training in med school/residency so there is no reason to assume we are any good at it.

Second, much of what we've historically taught is wrong (food pyramid anyone?).
Health education in the US is lacking. My political agenda is increased quality of education including nutritional education. I mean with better education comes more opportunity - no one in politics ever focuses on education - look at ol’ Betsy. Food pyramid so broken. We don’t teach kids how to make food good tasting food and feed them garbage in schools. Fix obesity in America? Nutritional education. Fix class discrimination? Raise education standards for public schools and make teaching a profession smart people would want to go into (increase salary). We spend more per kid in education than any other country, yet our teachers are paid crap.

rant over.
 
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Is this a serious question?

First, there is almost no nutrition training in med school/residency so there is no reason to assume we are any good at it.

Second, much of what we've historically taught is wrong (food pyramid anyone?).
That isn't to say that physicians can't do a better job in counseling patients on these matters and being vigilant in recognizing the problems with weight, diet, etc. It's obvious to me that there is plenty of work to be done. And I think med schools are starting to take notice, at least to a small extent. We've had 3-4 lectures on nutrition this year at my school.
 
I am being serious. Even if physicians have little to no training in nutrition, does that mean the prevalence of obesity/diabetes was caused by it? The post to which I responded phrased it as being the failure of the physicians.
That wasn't how I read it. My interpretation was that if physicians knew much about a healthy diet then our patients with diabetes/obesity would show improvements after counseling (which most of us PCP types actually do).

That's not the case.
 
That wasn't how I read it. My interpretation was that if physicians knew much about a healthy diet then our patients with diabetes/obesity would show improvements after counseling (which most of us PCP types actually do).

That's not the case.
Do you think physicians are doing a poor job counseling patients about diet or is it that the information available is inadequate? Or both? I'm genuinely curious, since I'm still a pre-clinical student.
 
Do you think physicians are doing a poor job counseling patients about diet or is it that the information available is inadequate? Or both? I'm genuinely curious, since I'm still a pre-clinical student.
The food pyramid and demonizing fats right up until the late 2000s based on "scientific evidence" from a guy in the 50s comes immediately to mind when I think of physicians being credible sources of information regarding nutrition.

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Noted. Did you have something else to contribute? I was simply answering a question asked of me. No further dietary advice will be given, though I think it’s laughable to suggest a majority of physicians are qualified, given the abject failure we have as evidenced by our prevalence of diabesity. If anything, I hope what I’ve contributed to this thread inspires people to take a deeper dive into this. I find the discussion about judging classmates their weight superficial, but also provides a great audience to have a more nuanced discussion. I also realize it’s probably derailing the thread, so I’m out. Y’all take care.

Im not sure if you’re referring to your posts in response to me but I didn’t ask anyone for any advice on anything. I simply told my story and also talked about how we shouldn’t be judging our classmates or anyone on their weight. There are far more important things in life than judging one another, at least to me there are.
If you weren’t referring to me then please ignore me completely hahaha
 
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The food pyramid and demonizing fats right up until the late 2000s based on "scientific evidence" from a guy in the 50s comes immediately to mind when I think of physicians being credible sources of information regarding nutrition.

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I think we can start by changing the "Nutrition Facts" labels. Protein doesn't even get a percentage? When is does only 50 g is 100% Daily Value? There is too high of an emphasis on carbohydrates. Studies over the years have consistently demonstrated the positive effect of higher protein consumption than what the FDA "recommends".
 
Ive gained 30 lbs since i started med school (and 50 lbs since the middle of first year.. yikes). Losing weight is so hard. My metabolism sucks now. My white coat doesnt even come close to buttoning... embarrassing.

Started out med school already overweight (well, obese, but don’t like that word), peaked during dedicated up 40 lbs, and now (M3) up 28 lbs from starting med school baseline.
 
Started out med school already overweight (well, obese, but don’t like that word), peaked during dedicated up 40 lbs, and now (M3) up 28 lbs from starting med school baseline.
I gained a bit of weight toward the end of M1 because i was like.. 95 lbs at christmas (im 5’3) and by the start of M2 i was about 120. Now, it has spiraled out of control. My surgery rotation was really bad. I had a lot of Dr Pepper and candy going into me regularly.
 
I gained a bit of weight toward the end of M1 because i was like.. 95 lbs at christmas (im 5’3) and by the start of M2 i was about 120. Now, it has spiraled out of control. My surgery rotation was really bad. I had a lot of Dr Pepper and candy going into me regularly.

It doesn’t help that I have no (rare) time to deal with going to the doctor and routinely run out of my synthroid for weeks at a time. Just got my renewal Rx a few days ago by squeezing appointment in after comat, and feeling better already.
 
It doesn’t help that I have no (rare) time to deal with going to the doctor and routinely run out of my synthroid for weeks at a time. Just got my renewal Rx a few days ago by squeezing appointment in after comat, and feeling better already.
No that certainly never helps!
“Wellness” amirite?
 
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Started out med school already overweight (well, obese, but don’t like that word),

Just FYI, there is a technical difference between those two terms in regards to BMI.

Edit: Disregard the above, you clearly understand that as you put it in parenthesis. My bad.
 
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I gained a bit of weight toward the end of M1 because i was like.. 95 lbs at christmas (im 5’3) and by the start of M2 i was about 120. Now, it has spiraled out of control. My surgery rotation was really bad. I had a lot of Dr Pepper and candy going into me regularly.

One easy calorie reduction is switching to diet soda - that'll save a lot of calories if you're a frequent imbiber. Diet soda tastes bad at first (I'd estimate ~2 weeks), but eventually you get used to it and everything else becomes too sweet.
 
One easy calorie reduction is switching to diet soda - that'll save a lot of calories if you're a frequent imbiber. Diet soda tastes bad at first (I'd estimate ~2 weeks), but eventually you get used to it and everything else becomes too sweet.
It still tastes bad lol i gave up on that front

I just have a ridiculous sweet tooth.
 
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I gained a bit of weight toward the end of M1 because i was like.. 95 lbs at christmas (im 5’3) and by the start of M2 i was about 120. Now, it has spiraled out of control. My surgery rotation was really bad. I had a lot of Dr Pepper and candy going into me regularly.

Surgery was rough for me too. I feel like on surgery you'll either lose a lot of weight or gain a lot of weight. I was in the latter group because after waking up at 4:30 AM 6 days a week and spending long hours in the OR and leaving the hospital tired as **** there was nothing more satisfying than stopping by the McDonald's or Taco Bell drive through to pick up some comfort food on the way home. I seriously have not had as little of a desire to cook food than on my surgery rotation. I also spent a lot more money than usual buying food at the hospital because I was there for such a big part of the day so I ended up buying a lot more breakfast and lunch than I used to.

I was on surgery from Jan-Feb of last year and it basically kicked off a bad stretch of weight gain throughout 3rd/4th years and I'm now 30 pounds heavier than I was about 4 years ago when I finished college. Interview dinners and being at home for vacation really did me in, and now I'm finally going to the gym regularly and trying to eat less but it's gonna be a long road to weight loss lol
 
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Surgery was rough for me too. I feel like on surgery you'll either lose a lot of weight or gain a lot of weight. I was in the latter group because after waking up at 4:30 AM 6 days a week and spending long hours in the OR and leaving the hospital tired as **** there was nothing more satisfying than stopping by the McDonald's or Taco Bell drive through to pick up some comfort food on the way home. I seriously have not had as little of a desire to cook food than on my surgery rotation. I also spent a lot more money than usual buying food at the hospital because I was there for such a big part of the day so I ended up buying a lot more breakfast and lunch than I used to.

I was on surgery from Jan-Feb of last year and it basically kicked off a bad stretch of weight gain throughout 3rd/4th years and I'm now 30 pounds heavier than I was about 4 years ago when I finished college. Interview dinners and being at home for vacation really did me in, and now I'm finally going to the gym regularly and trying to eat less but it's gonna be a long road to weight loss lol
Word.
Interview season and the extra time off fourth year has killed me lol
 
Anywho..
I recently got an Apple Watch and apparently the only thing motivating me to get off my butt is to beat my husband in the weekly competition lolol
 
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