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- Dec 2, 2009
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What???? Oh man. I have no words.
Is there an animated smiley face that's punching the other one in the face?
Sorta
What???? Oh man. I have no words.
Is there an animated smiley face that's punching the other one in the face?
Sorta
Hahaha oh god.
The very point I was making originally was that you should atleast complete the application process before you qualify yourself to shun DO philosophy.
What don't you understand?
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What dont they understand? The part where getting accepted suddenly changes anything at all.
You are exactly who you were before + the weight of 1 piece of paper....... It was a silly comment
This is exactly what I'm talking about. 100% hater but, why?
Answer me this: If there's a DO willing to do OMM, and a patient requesting OMM........... Who are you in that equation?
You seem to me to be the most level headed in this present conversation.
Pod people, get it? If not, you should watch Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
I appreciate it, but I'm a pre med, so I'm confused now
The very point I was making originally was that you should atleast complete the application process before you qualify yourself to shun DO philosophy.
What don't you understand?
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Its not just an acceptance, it's doing well in school, shadowing, doing well on MCAT, selling yourself on apps, interviewing well... A percentage of premed haters will ultimately be forced to go DO and then will be eating their words. That's why, better to just exercise humility and stop thinking you know everything.
I never claimed to know anything except the fact that you shouldn't claim to know everything
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Its not just an acceptance, it's doing well in school, shadowing, doing well on MCAT, selling yourself on apps, interviewing well... A percentage of premed haters will ultimately be forced to go DO and then will be eating their words. That's why, better to just exercise humility and stop thinking you know everything.
I never claimed to know anything except the fact that you shouldn't claim to know everything
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He's a resident radiologist. He likely knows more than enough physiology and pathophysiology to understand that certain OMM procedures are useless and outright wrong.
He's a resident radiologist. He likely knows more than enough physiology and pathophysiology to understand that certain OMM procedures are useless and outright wrong.
What's your point? A majority of your class is going to hate OMM because a majority of your class has no interest in using it. Then after they graduate they will forget all of their OMM and have the same opinion as they had when they were OMS-0.
Perhaps. Therefore, I take his opinion with appreciation. What I don't appreciate is premeds spewing negativity about something they don't know about.
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All I know is.... Ultimately I win.
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Did u make claims against something that you know nothing about? Then why are you including yourself?
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Here's my point...you seem to put a lot of merit on where someone is in the process. I dot agree...I'm sure you're a great person, and in other threads, we will probably be friends. But this is the danger zone thread, so you have to make sure you mean what you say.
The take home message, I'm a pre med, JD says he's a resident(the jury's still out , and we even have a (future) foot dentist in the building. Everyone has an opinion, but their comments are NOT validated by their degree or lack thereof. Personally, I think Johnny is full of **** sometimes, even though he's a resident and I'm a lowly pre-med. so if I have something intelligent to say, I'll say it. And if someone else says something, I'll evaluate that piece of info for its own validity.
Edit: added the not, thought it was there
The scientific method is not a patent of medical school. Furthermore there are plenty of DO's and DO students on here with similar personalities for one to make an educated assumption that they will dislike OMM. There's nothing else to say Skinny.
No, all you did was crap all over this thread and declare yourself supreme victor using two-bit arguments. Sorry, all you did was exasperate a thread that was peacefully dying. Thank you for your contribution.
Here's my point...you seem to put a lot of merit on where someone is in the process. I dot agree...I'm sure you're a great person, and in other threads, we will probably be friends. But this is the danger zone thread, so you have to make sure you mean what you say.
The take home message, I'm a pre med, JD says he's a resident(the jury's still out , and we even have a (future) foot dentist in the building. Everyone has an opinion, but their comments are NOT validated by their degree or lack thereof. Personally, I think Johnny is full of **** sometimes, even though he's a resident and I'm a lowly pre-med. so if I have something intelligent to say, I'll say it. And if someone else says something, I'll evaluate that piece of info for its own validity.
Edit: added the not, thought it was there
You need to realize that the only argument he can make is that we're not DO students and thus have had no experiences, i.e anecdotes where we have seen OMM work. If there were studies, stats, then no one would be arguing, however since there are none, the only way that these people who have deeply rationalized the DO path is to appeal to authority.
Ooh there are stuides. Very flawed studies but they are out there.
You need to realize that the only argument he can make is that we're not DO students and thus have had no experiences, i.e anecdotes where we have seen OMM work. If there were studies, stats, then no one would be arguing, however since there are none, the only way that these people who have deeply rationalized the DO path is to appeal to authority.
Haha, do you need my match letters and two forms of ID? How about my NPI number or institutional DEA number?
Ooh there are stuides. Very flawed studies but they are out there.
I don't understand why some of these OMM fellows and OMM professors can't spend some time doing studies. A few years by enough osteopathic institutes and you're bound to see some studies that show benefit.
It's more than you think. A lot of people choose their school solely based on location. Most actual medical students, at least from my class, do not think like people you see posting on studentdoctor.net.
I'm the person telling Medicare not to cover it.
Any examples of these flawed studies from OMM fellows?
I guess I'll have to look into this...I'm a skeptic by default, but I'd actually be surprised if there aren't any decent OMT studies.
Let medicare cover it. If they don't, then we'll all be covering it as part of our non-medicare insurance plans just like we do the $50 ibuprofens uninsured people get in the ED.
I'm confused how you would go about doing a legit OMT study though.. How would you have a control? Purposely do "fake" OMT? Then it wouldn't be a double blind and would therefore be subject to bias one way or another.
To be honest, probably the ideal experiment would be to train two groups of students in a technique.
One group gets the real one, the other a sham procedure, but the students don't know which they are learning.
You then see how the two groups do with real patients.
That would by necessity be a small n experiment though.
Haha. Guess they dont teach ethics in MD schools? Yeah, Zing!!
But really, you would test this as you would physical therapy. You dont need a fake OMT control group, you just compare to no OMT and let statistical analysis handle significance
This is essentially what they did with the sham acupuncture trial.
I added in an extra level of blinding (so the practitioners don't know which technique they're using), but otherwise it's the same idea.
And it's perfectly ethical as long as there is no serious risk to the patients and they give informed consent.
And as the above poster pointed out, no one is denying human contact can have an effect on people. What we're denying is that you guys know what you're talking about when you emphasize one type of contact over another due to your pseudoscientific osteopathic principles.
Would someone like to join me in a bombing campaign? Let's start with AOA headquarters and go from new->old
Why not do a before and after study, similar pain condition, compare OMM to basic massage or PT methods. I.e a Quazi-experimental study.
They would all show improvement and all claim they were the cause. Need a real control.
No you cant just compare to no OMT because just human touch alone can have a significant placebo effect. There should always be a sham treatment group.
This is essentially what they did with the sham acupuncture trial.
I added in an extra level of blinding (so the practitioners don't know which technique they're using), but otherwise it's the same idea.
And it's perfectly ethical as long as there is no serious risk to the patients and they give informed consent.
And as the above poster pointed out, no one is denying human contact can have an effect on people. What we're denying is that you guys know what you're talking about when you emphasize one type of contact over another due to your pseudoscientific osteopathic principles.
Why not do a before and after study, similar pain condition, compare OMM to basic massage or PT methods. I.e a Quazi-experimental study.
Well if OMM showed more improvement? I mean that's how drug therapies are done, you compare one drug to another, the best one is obviously going to become the more prominent one?
Because patients will respond differently depending upon the authority of the figure doing it. This has been shown in other studies.
They already do this in omt research. They have sham treatment groups where they touch people in the same areas in the same sequence.
Because patients will respond differently depending upon the authority of the figure doing it. This has been shown in other studies.
They already do this in omt research. They have sham treatment groups where they touch people in the same areas in the same sequence.
That's how the sham acupuncture study was set up. You still include a real control, but you need the sham control as well.
Acupuncture is more effective than nothing, but indistinguishable from sham acupuncture in terms of results.
Haha. Guess they dont teach ethics in MD schools? Yeah, Zing!!
But really, you would test this as you would physical therapy. You dont need a fake OMT control group, you just compare to no OMT and let statistical analysis handle significance