Discrimination against DOs?

[CarlisleBeans]

Interesting blog on Medscape worth reading about an intern's experience with attempting to get an emergency medicine residency spot as a DO.

http://boards.medscape.com/[email protected]@.2a36ebae!comment=1

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

sure there are people like this in every field. that PD just sounds like a dbag all around, dragging him around like that. i am sure there are single programs in FM out there with a PD that discriminates against DOs. it sucks, but there are probably also PDs out there that discriminate against african americans, women, fat people, blondes, tattooed, name your pick. it is what it is and you can can't really make generalizations regarding the discrimination against DOs based on one article about one bad experience. especially in EM which is known to be DO friendly.

 

[Ost3oclast]

Interesting read. PD seemed like an arrogant *** for sure. Bias does exist though, this article seems to reinforce that.

 

[HalfListic]

There are many biases. People are biased.


What I've come to realize it that nowadays you can overcome just about any prejudice or bias in most, if not all, professional settings.

These types of situations are more and more isolated.

 

[oms2]

what a douche.
i wonder if he has instructions in place to forbid a do to touch him in an emergency lol

 

[CarlisleBeans]

sure there are people like this in every field. that PD just sounds like a dbag all around, dragging him around like that. i am sure there are single programs in FM out there with a PD that discriminates against DOs. it sucks, but there are probably also PDs out there that discriminate against african americans, women, fat people, blondes, tattooed, name your pick. it is what it is and you can can't really make generalizations regarding the discrimination against DOs based on one article about one bad experience. especially in EM which is known to be DO friendly.

I agree with you 100% - I was just surprised to read that experiences like still happen. What I have never understood is the thought the DO education is not comparable to MD education. DO students actually have a larger course load and more overall hours than a MD student.

 

[DrMom]

I agree with you 100% - I was just surprised to read that experiences like still happen. What I have never understood is the thought the DO education is not comparable to MD education. DO students actually have a larger course load and more overall hours than a MD student.

Please don't buy into DO education being notably more than MD education. It is the same plus OMM, which doesn't take up that much more time in the curriculum and most of us don't regularly use. The key is that we're taught the same scientific/medical information so our training is equivalent. There is *some* discrimination still out there, but it isn't an overwhelming issue in most areas or specialities.

 

[CarlisleBeans]

Please don't buy into DO education being notably more than MD education. It is the same plus OMM, which doesn't take up that much more time in the curriculum and most of us don't regularly use. The key is that we're taught the same scientific/medical information so our training is equivalent. There is *some* discrimination still out there, but it isn't an overwhelming issue in most areas or specialities.

I didn't say it was "notably" more - just more. Which makes the argument that DO education is less than MD invalid. It is more - no matter how you look at it. Just sticking up for the DO profession here.

 

[DrMom]

I'd recommend you defend DO education as being equal and leave the "we cover more" part out. It doesn't sit well with some MDs and I think it leads to some of the few pockets of discrimination that do remain. Don't get me wrong, I'm an OMM proponent and was an OMM tutor when I was in school. I think it is a case of needing to choose our battles wisely.

 

[random2708]

especially in EM which is known to be DO friendly.

Do you think thats across the country?

I see a lot of DO's in the ER's, but I also think I'm in a geographic area that accepts DO's and midlevels to a relatively high degree. So I'm curious whether EM is DO friendly to a greater degree, setting aside geographic bias.

I'm also curious, as EM becomes more competitive/desirable, if the DO friendly status will equibrilate as increased numbers of new MD's apply . . .

 

[Mehd School]

I agree with you 100% - I was just surprised to read that experiences like still happen. What I have never understood is the thought the DO education is not comparable to MD education. DO students actually have a larger course load and more overall hours than a MD student.

 

[costales]

So I'm curious whether EM is DO friendly to a greater degree, setting aside geographic bias.

See http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12105219&postcount=7

 

[Ost3oclast]

I agree with you 100% - I was just surprised to read that experiences like still happen. What I have never understood is the thought the DO education is not comparable to MD education. DO students actually have a larger course load and more overall hours than a MD student.

I know you are trying to defend the profession, which is good, however, everytime I hear somebody say this I know it just adds fuel to the fire. D.O.'s are no better than M.D.'s and are also no less than M.D.'s, both are just physicians. Talk like that just polarizes the debate and actually separates us more, which we don't need.

 

[CarlisleBeans]

I know you are trying to defend the profession, which is good, however, everytime I hear somebody say this I know it just adds fuel to the fire. D.O.'s are no better than M.D.'s and are also no less than M.D.'s, both are just physicians. Talk like that just polarizes the debate and actually separates us more, which we don't need.

I'm not saying MD or DO is better. Too much is being read into what I meant as a simple statement of fact. Not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. DO students do OMM - which requires more time and gives them skills/tools - whatever you want to call it - that MD students don't receive as a part of their education. I'm not saying it makes them better - I'm simply stating the difference. I don't understand why stating a fact is such a controversial thing. MD or DO - either way you're a doctor. I think DOs have to sometimes fight against the stigma of being a DO (when there shouldn't even be a stigma in the first place) and should be proud of the unique skills they learn. I don't see how this adds fuel to the fire.

 

[cliquesh]

Most top places won't interview you because you are a DO. Most middle tier and low tier won't care as long as your board scores are good. You really need to take the USMLE to have a fair shot.

 

[Ost3oclast]

I'm not saying MD or DO is better. Too much is being read into what I meant as a simple statement of fact. Not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. DO students do OMM - which requires more time and gives them skills/tools - whatever you want to call it - that MD students don't receive as a part of their education. I'm not saying it makes them better - I'm simply stating the difference. I don't understand why stating a fact is such a controversial thing. MD or DO - either way you're a doctor. I think DOs have to sometimes fight against the stigma of being a DO (when there shouldn't even be a stigma in the first place) and should be proud of the unique skills they learn. I don't see how this adds fuel to the fire.

Its just the way you said it that adds the fuel. Go on to pre allo and say that and then wait a couple of minutes, you'll see what I mean. Not trying to bash on you or anything, I understand what you sayin.

 

[CarlisleBeans]

Its just the way you said it that adds the fuel. Go on to pre allo and say that and then wait a couple of minutes, you'll see what I mean. Not trying to bash on you or anything, I understand what you sayin.

And say what? That DO students are required to do extra curriculum that includes OMM - which adds on to credit hours. I still don't, and won't ever, see the incendiary nature of that.

 

[cliquesh]

And say what? That DO students are required to do extra curriculum that includes OMM - which adds on to credit hours. I still don't, and won't ever, see the incendiary nature of that.

I don't think DO schools have more credit hours. I think DOs learn OMM instead of having more basic science credits.

 

[Ost3oclast]

And say what? That DO students are required to do extra curriculum that includes OMM - which adds on to credit hours. I still don't, and won't ever, see the incendiary nature of that.

Ok dude. Take it easy.

 

[docnotsopc]

There are many biases. People are biased.


What I've come to realize it that nowadays you can overcome just about any prejudice or bias in most, if not all, professional settings.

These types of situations are more and more isolated.

Didnt you tell me the other day that there is no difference between MD and DOs..... and people will hire you regardless of you letters??

I disagreed, said otherwise, and you told me of your experiences and how I was wrong?

 

[MedPR]

As far as I know EM is mainly neutral/open to DOs. EM is becoming more competitive though, so who knows how things will be in a few years.

 

[docnotsopc]

I don't think DO schools have more credit hours. I think DOs learn OMM instead of having more basic science credits.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

So many people dont realize this. Especially pre-meds. Apparently DO curriculum has approximately 200 hours less of Pharm/Biochem compared to MD schools and this is replaced with OMM

Note: This does not necessarily mean that an MD would come out more prepared as every medical student forgets the useless tiny details anyway

 

[Ost3oclast]

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

So many people dont realize this. Especially pre-meds. Apparently DO curriculum has approximately 200 hours less of Pharm/Biochem compared to MD schools and this is replaced with OMM

Note: This does not necessarily mean that an MD would come out more prepared as every medical student forgets the useless tiny details anyway

It would probably depend on the school though right? I've heard some DO schools really stress the sciences and dont put such an emphasis on OMM

 

[DrWily]

It would probably depend on the school though right? I've heard some DO schools really stress the sciences and dont put such an emphasis on OMM

Still have to do roughly 200 hours of OMM. That time has to come from somewhere (i.e. other classes.)

 

[MedPR]

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

So many people dont realize this. Especially pre-meds. Apparently DO curriculum has approximately 200 hours less of Pharm/Biochem compared to MD schools and this is replaced with OMM

Note: This does not necessarily mean that an MD would come out more prepared as every medical student forgets the useless tiny details anyway

I'm sure it contributes to the lower USMLE score/pass rates for DOs though.

It would probably depend on the school though right? I've heard some DO schools really stress the sciences and dont put such an emphasis on OMM

There is still a minimum requirement of OMM.

 

[DrWily]

I'm sure it contributes to the lower USMLE score/pass rates for DOs though.

Less than you would think. DO curriculum still have all of the pertinent information for taking the USMLE. I've never heard of a D.O. who was planning on taking USMLE to have to "make up" those lost hours by studying more of that material. Generally the trend is to study everything for the USMLE and take that first, then take the COMLEX a few days later since USMLE studying pretty much covers both bases and you just need to use the Saverese Green Book for OMM review.

GENERALLY the lower USMLE score/pass rate can be attributed to the fact that the D.O population is made up of GENERALLY weaker standardized test takers as evidenced by the lower mean accepted MCAT score.

 

[NontradCA]

Less than you would think. DO curriculum still have all of the pertinent information for taking the USMLE. I've never heard of a D.O. who was planning on taking USMLE to have to "make up" those lost hours by studying more of that material. Generally the trend is to study everything for the USMLE and take that first, then take the COMLEX a few days later since USMLE studying pretty much covers both bases and you just need to use the Saverese Green Book for OMM review.

GENERALLY the lower USMLE score/pass rate can be attributed to the fact that the D.O population is made up of GENERALLY weaker standardized test takers as evidenced by the lower mean accepted MCAT score.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

sure there are people like this in every field. that PD just sounds like a dbag all around, dragging him around like that. i am sure there are single programs in FM out there with a PD that discriminates against DOs. it sucks, but there are probably also PDs out there that discriminate against african americans, women, fat people, blondes, tattooed, name your pick. it is what it is and you can can't really make generalizations regarding the discrimination against DOs based on one article about one bad experience. especially in EM which is known to be DO friendly.

+1 In every thread that I see you post early in I usually just stop reading after your post because you've said everything that needs to be said. you da man

 

[Ost3oclast]

There is still a minimum requirement of OMM.

I see. I didnt realize there was a minimum req for OMM somehow haha. I could see how that would cut into class time. I'm not too fond of being deficient in those two areas but beggars cant be choosers.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

I see. I didnt realize there was a minimum req for OMM somehow haha. I could see how that would cut into class time. I'm not too fond of being deficient in those two areas but beggars cant be choosers.

If you still cover all the pertinent info that is on the USMLE, I doubt you would be "deficient" in either area.

 

[racerwad]

And say what? That DO students are required to do extra curriculum that includes OMM - which adds on to credit hours. I still don't, and won't ever, see the incendiary nature of that.

Usually when people make this claim, there is an implication this additional curriculum makes DOs better physicians in a meaningful, standardized way and that allopathic schools are doing a disservice to their students, patients, and society at large as a result of not including it. Otherwise, why would it exist?

Even though the OMM takes up "only" 200 hours, don't think that you also won't be spending time and energy trying to do well in this class outside of lecture/lab. That is time being taken away from basic and clinical sciences. I am fairly certain that the night before my USMLE, I would be willing to punch a baby for those extra 200 hours to prepare.

It is assumed that preparing for the COMLEX is equivalent to preparing for the USMLE plus the Green Book; but this is purely anecdotal. In fact, the evidence comparing DO vs MD students in USMLE performance suggests that there is something different (along with the previously mentioned weaknesses with standardized tests). Looking at my classmates, it certainly isn't because they are dumb and or lazy. I am suggesting that the difference may be the near religious adherence to OMM as a course equivalent to the basic or clinical sciences.

 

[docnotsopc]

Less than you would think. DO curriculum still have all of the pertinent information for taking the USMLE. I've never heard of a D.O. who was planning on taking USMLE to have to "make up" those lost hours by studying more of that material. Generally the trend is to study everything for the USMLE and take that first, then take the COMLEX a few days later since USMLE studying pretty much covers both bases and you just need to use the Saverese Green Book for OMM review.

GENERALLY the lower USMLE score/pass rate can be attributed to the fact that the D.O population is made up of GENERALLY weaker standardized test takers as evidenced by the lower mean accepted MCAT score.

Agreed

Most DO schools (i say most, because some are new ones, some not so good ones etc) that teach effectively will teach the high yield stuff (what you find in First Aid etc).

Although the difference in hours may mean that MD students could potentially see a topic numerous times, when we see it once or twice. At the same time, MD students might be learning useless details. So who knows, its probably more school dependent than degree dependent?

 

[costales]

It would probably depend on the school though right? I've heard some DO schools really stress the sciences and dont put such an emphasis on OMM

A quick way to compare is length of school year. See http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12545654&postcount=47

 

[BabyDoc86]

+1 In every thread that I see you post early in I usually just stop reading after your post because you've said everything that needs to be said. you da man

FBS is awesome!

 

[Ost3oclast]

A quick way to compare is length of school year. See http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12545654&postcount=47

Cool! Thanks for that.

 

[Hemorrage]

The one thing i've realized as i approach applying to medical school is this: if you don't want to take 2 board exams, have to explain your degree to people who are at least 30 points below your IQ and want to leave all your doors open you should aim for M.D. Everyone can sit around and argue about how D.O = M.D which is completely logically true, however, biases exist regardless of what is logical.

 

[HalfListic]

I'd recommend you defend DO education as being equal and leave the "we cover more" part out. It doesn't sit well with some MDs and I think it leads to some of the few pockets of discrimination that do remain. Don't get me wrong, I'm an OMM proponent and was an OMM tutor when I was in school. I think it is a case of needing to choose our battles wisely.

I'm not saying MD or DO is better. Too much is being read into what I meant as a simple statement of fact. Not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. DO students do OMM - which requires more time and gives them skills/tools - whatever you want to call it - that MD students don't receive as a part of their education. I'm not saying it makes them better - I'm simply stating the difference. I don't understand why stating a fact is such a controversial thing. MD or DO - either way you're a doctor. I think DOs have to sometimes fight against the stigma of being a DO (when there shouldn't even be a stigma in the first place) and should be proud of the unique skills they learn. I don't see how this adds fuel to the fire.

You should just take her advice... its good.

Just realize that you overshot your meaning and revise your future arguments.

Shes also not saying that your comments are controversial, they are a weak argument and are very easily combated.


Read the bold and hopefully you can see the difference in arguments

 

[DrBumblebee]

I know you are trying to defend the profession, which is good, however, everytime I hear somebody say this I know it just adds fuel to the fire. D.O.'s are no better than M.D.'s and are also no less than M.D.'s, both are just physicians. Talk like that just polarizes the debate and actually separates us more, which we don't need.

If MD = DO, then why debating this?

For the sake of all physicians and patients, I wish American DO schools will become American MD schools with an additional degree (DO=diploma of osteopathy), that is MD-DO by 2015... Just like MD schools giving MD-MBA, MD-MPH, etc... United we stand!

 

[MedPR]

If MD = DO, then why debating this?

For the sake of all physicians and patients, I wish American DO schools will become American MD schools with an additional degree (DO=diploma of osteopathy), that is MD-DO by 2015... Just like MD schools giving MD-MBA, MD-MPH, etc... United we stand!

I dont think 200 hours of non-standardized education justifies a second degree.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[DrBumblebee]

I dont think 200 hours of non-standardized education justifies a second degree.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

If the degree only needs a 200-hrs to complete, why not?

 

[MedPR]

If the degree only needs a 200-hrs to complete, why not?

Your suggestion was made as a way to unify the degrees right?

Status quo: what's the difference between MD and DO? DOs learn omm in med school and MDs don't.

Your suggestion: what's the difference between a plain MD and a MD/DO? MD/DO learn omm in med school. Plain MDs don't.

What's the point if it changes nothing?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[DrBumblebee]

Your suggestion was made as a way to unify the degrees right?

Status quo: what's the difference between MD and DO? DOs learn omm in med school and MDs don't.

Your suggestion: what's the difference between a plain MD and a MD/DO? MD/DO learn omm in med school. Plain MDs don't.

What's the point if it changes nothing?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

Sorry, but I can't get your tangled thoughts.

I think what I said is clear: DO schools should become MD schools giving and additional degree/certificate of DO, that is MD-DO, like those of MD-MBA, MD-MPH, etc.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I didn't say it was "notably" more - just more. Which makes the argument that DO education is less than MD invalid. It is more - no matter how you look at it. Just sticking up for the DO profession here.

There is no good way to address this without stirring the pot so I will just be blunt and hope everyone realized I am not hating on, douching on, or any other fashion of "on"ing the DO community.

Medical school consumes ALL of your productive time. All of it. People take breaks or get involved in things, but that is honestly to recharge for more grinding. The times you physically have the mental stamina to study, you do so The relative number of courses you have is completely immaterial because you are filled to the brim with information and the average person is only capable of retaining so much. Much of med curriculum will overflow and not be retained regardless of who you are or where you are.

Keeping that in mind - how would you argue that adding a largely superfluous course like OMM makes DOs anything "plus"? Now, from what I have learned from DO students OMM is not any more time consuming that standard physical exam lab, and is not taken any more seriously during pre clinic years. IMO it is inconsequential. But my point is: given the reality of how med school is taught in terms of volume and retention, the logical conclusion based on touting OMM is that DO students will end up being less in these areas.

The reason MDs dislike the "MD+" comparison due to omm is for a few reasons:
1) DO schools take people with lower scores and stats, overall the effect is being told by someone who has historically not achieved as highly that they are out achieving you. That is irritating.
2) OMM is controversial. It is largely unused by practicing DOs and I believe when it is it is done in private practice. At the very least only AOA residencies are teaching it. Whatever the case there, the point is that touting yourself as more than something else due to something people have differing opinions on is also annoying.
3) it is disingenuous. It is something that people tell themselves out of a perceived level or atmosphere of competition. The statement is the equivalent of standing on your tippie toes when comparing height. It is obvious and again, irritating.

 

[MedPR]

Sorry, but I can't get your tangled thoughts.

I think what I said is clear: DO schools should become MD schools giving and additional degree/certificate of DO, that is MD-DO, like those of MD-MBA, MD-MPH, etc.

Yes what you said was clear. However, your intentions or reasoning behind it is what I don't understand. What would it accomplish? MDs wanting to learn OMM can already do so.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Sorry, but I can't get your tangled thoughts.

I think what I said is clear: DO schools should become MD schools giving and additional degree/certificate of DO, that is MD-DO, like those of MD-MBA, MD-MPH, etc.

Why should they grant an MD degree if not an MD school? The NDs also claim equivalence in training (they have fun ways of also saying they do more). But in the end it is apples to oranges until the accreditation is unified.

This is another one of those disingenuous statements. On the surface it seems logical but there are ulterior motives at work.

Granting an MD degree, even if nobody wants to believe it, will shift how and where people apply. Even more so if OMM is an optional certificate. The average applicant stats will go up which will likely raise average matriculant stats (most DO schools are not selecting for lower stats and therefore dismissing higher scoring applicants)

Would you be OK with unified accreditation if it meant that all current DO schools had MD level competition (~3.7, 31)?

 

[HalfListic]

Why should they grant an MD degree if not an MD school? The NDs also claim equivalence in training (they have fun ways of also saying they do more). But in the end it is apples to oranges until the accreditation is unified.

This is another one of those disingenuous statements. On the surface it seems logical but there are ulterior motives at work.

Granting an MD degree, even if nobody wants to believe it, will shift how and where people apply. Even more so if OMM is an optional certificate. The average applicant stats will go up which will likely raise average matriculant stats (most DO schools are not selecting for lower stats and therefore dismissing higher scoring applicants)

Would you be OK with unified accreditation if it meant that all current DO schools had MD level competition (~3.7, 31)?

It's a tough sell to compare ND training with DO training.

DO and MD training is very similar

Edit: the other thing I wanted to say us that MD doesn't notate level of training in the way you are presenting it here...you can get an MD in various places around the world with varying levels of training standards.

I think for those saying DO should grant MD it's more to say, DOs are medical doctors with DO emphasis...so it's makes sense to labeled them as such.

I go back and forth on caring about this issue.

 

[DrBumblebee]

...
The reason MDs dislike the "MD+" comparison due to omm is for a few reasons:
1) DO schools take people with lower scores and stats, overall the effect is being told by someone who has historically not achieved as highly that they are out achieving you. That is irritating.
...

Well, this is not the actuality!

MD schools have become like MCAT-ophyls instead of looking for all-round applicants. DO schools are more like accepting lower MCAT scores.

I've many friends having GPAs around 2.90-3.30, with a 29-31 MCAT, who are now in MD schools. I wonder if someone is that low in the GPA, how come to think about that person would be a competent student at your MD school?

DO schools compensate your lower-ish MCAT scores with your higher GPAs or strong personalities, and attract more personable applicants.

My experiences with physicians so long tell me that DOs are more down to earth persons than most of the MDs, who think themselves are like small-scaled gods on Earth. There must have been a philosophy behind this phenomenon.

 

[MedPR]

Well, this is not the actuality!

MD schools have become like MCAT-ophyls instead of looking for all-round applicants. DO schools are more like accepting lower MCAT scores.

I've many friends having GPAs around 2.90-3.30, with a 29-31 MCAT, who are now in MD schools. I wonder if someone is that low in the GPA, how come to think about that person would be a competent student at your MD school?

DO schools compensate your lower-ish MCAT scores with your higher GPAs or strong personalities, and attracts more personable applicants.

My experiences with physicians so long tell me that DOs are more down to earth persons than most of the MDs, who think themselves are like small-scaled gods on Earth. There must have been a philosophy behind this phenomenon.

DOs do take people with lower stats. And by saying DOs attract more personable applicants, you're essentially saying that people who worked harder in college are less personable than people who didn't maintain high GPAs or get solid MCAT scores. Does not compute.

 

[SpecterGT260]

It's a tough sell to compare ND training with DO training.

DO and MD training is very similar

Edit: the other thing I wanted to say us that MD doesn't notate level of training in the way you are presenting it here...you can get an MD in various places around the world with varying levels of training standards.

I think for those saying DO should grant MD it's more to say, DOs are medical doctors with DO emphasis...so it's makes sense to labeled them as such.

I go back and forth on caring about this issue.

I wasnt implying that ND training is similar to either. Just saying that because someone says so isn't justification to start granting someone elses degree.

Well, this is not the actuality!

MD schools have become like MCAT-ophyls instead of looking for all-round applicants. DO schools are more like accepting lower MCAT scores.

I've many friends having GPAs around 2.90-3.30, with a 29-31 MCAT, who are now in MD schools. I wonder if someone is that low in the GPA, how come to think about that person would be a competent student at your MD school?

DO schools compensate your lower-ish MCAT scores with your higher GPAs or strong personalities, and attract more personable applicants.

My experiences with physicians so long tell me that DOs are more down to earth persons than most of the MDs, who think themselves are like small-scaled gods on Earth. There must have been a philosophy behind this phenomenon.

And there are people at DO schools with <3.4 GPAs (even schools with averages below this) who are carried in with their MCATs. MD schools look at the whole applicant at least as much as DO schools do, if not more (see what I did there? ). Averages are lower for both stats so, while they are climbing, your assessment is simply factually incorrect

The rest of the stuff about 'more personable" and "down to earth" is just ridiculous. I understand the impulse to say and spread such things but it just really isnt true. I have attended several interviews at both MD and DO schools as well as having attended an MD school.... I gotta tell you, I didnt see anything at the DO interviews that I didnt see at MD schools (except maybe people who were more recently drawn to medicine and therefore more scattered ECs) and I cant imagine how it is humanly possible to be more personable, caring, down to earth, or whatever than the vast majority of my classmates. Pre-meds are pre-meds. PERIOD. It is stats, and to a degree family/social situations and personal preferences that makes an MD or DO, not personalities. Luckily if you do get into a medical school of any kind these thoughts simply wont survive through to residency, which is why you only see pre-meds, who honestly know bunk about the who/what/how/why of physicians, are the only ones who say this.

 

[BabyDoc86]

Luckily if you do get into a medical school of any kind these thoughts simply wont survive through to residency, which is why you only see pre-meds, who honestly know bunk about the who/what/how/why of physicians, are the only ones who say this.