Do Dentists Really Make $500k/year?

[maybedentistidktho]

I have heard from numerous family members that I should pursue dentistry. They say it is a 9-5 job where you make $500k a year with a stress-free life. Is this true? Would I have to open my own practice in the middle of nowhere to reach this income? They make it seem as if I will live this life in my mid 30's, which I feel is highly unlikely. I do want to become a dentist because of the ability to help people, but I was a bit hesitant seeing the insane tuition for dental school. I was under the impression that dentists made 2-300k, from which a massive chunk would be taken for student loan tuition for the first ten years. I expect to be in 600-700k of debt once I would exit dental school.

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[howdoiknow]

lol no. The general rule is $500-$700/day. Most dentists are making $130-$200k (140k as an associate in most major cities like SF or NC) and closer to $200k in smaller cities in the south/midwest (not necessarily rural). You can increase that to $300k or so by opening your own practice (easier said than done and will require LOTS of patience, business acumen, $$$$ upfront to build said practice and a bit of luck.

If you're not competitive for a state school that costs <$250k and you're going to a school like USC, NYU or midwestern that costs $500k-$700k then you need to be realistic and realize the worst possible outcome is you'll make $180k pre-tax

If you want a guaranteed $250-$300k (minimum) then go to med school. I don't know a single family doctor who works at least 40 hrs a week and makes less than $250k in private practice. If you're smart and hard-working enough to do anesthesia or ENT for example, expect $400-$600k

My personal take: To be honest I would never consider dentistry because from my point of view it feels like you have to be a salesman on top of being a doctor. You essentially have to convince and SELL your services to your patients (If you want to break that $200k barrier). Patients will decline even necessary services. They'll always think you're ripping them off even if you're honest and have pure intentions. This happens MUCH less frequently in medicine. The students at the local dental school told me they wished they took a gap year and tried for medicine.

If your total COA was $250k (or had dentist parents paying for it and handing you a lucrative practice) then I'd say go for it.

You can't have a bad day and your work is judged and scrutinized all the time. Yes, medicine is slightly more difficult but some primary care specialties 80% of the day can be dull and boring cookie-cutter plans.

Also, you would need to pay $7500/mo to pay off $650k loan in 10 years. That's not feasible if you're only making $100-$130k post-tax. Even if you did IBR for 20-25 years you'd owe a tax bomb because the amount forgiven would be considered income. PSLF isn't really feasible as a dentist (places that qualify will make you want to rip your balls out)

 

[Sbosu]

Become a nurse practitioner

 

[SuxDrugs&Rocuronium]

lol no. The general rule is $500-$700/day. Most dentists are making $130-$200k (140k as an associate in most major cities like SF or NC) and closer to $200k in smaller cities in the south/midwest (not necessarily rural). You can increase that to $300k or so by opening your own practice (easier said than done and will require LOTS of patience, business acumen, $$$$ upfront to build said practice and a bit of luck.

If you're not competitive for a state school that costs <$250k and you're going to a school like USC, NYU or midwestern that costs $500k-$700k then you need to be realistic and realize the worst possible outcome is you'll make $180k pre-tax

If you want a guaranteed $250-$300k (minimum) then go to med school. I don't know a single family doctor who works at least 40 hrs a week and makes less than $250k in private practice. If you're smart and hard-working enough to do anesthesia or ENT for example, expect $400-$600k

My personal take: To be honest I would never consider dentistry because from my point of view it feels like you have to be a salesman on top of being a doctor. You essentially have to convince and SELL your services to your patients (If you want to break that $200k barrier). Patients will decline even necessary services. They'll always think you're ripping them off even if you're honest and have pure intentions. This happens MUCH less frequently in medicine. The students at the local dental school told me they wished they took a gap year and tried for medicine.

If your total COA was $250k (or had dentist parents paying for it and handing you a lucrative practice) then I'd say go for it.

You can't have a bad day and your work is judged and scrutinized all the time. Yes, medicine is slightly more difficult but some primary care specialties 80% of the day can be dull and boring cookie-cutter plans.

Also, you would need to pay $7500/mo to pay off $650k loan in 10 years. That's not feasible if you're only making $100-$130k post-tax. Even if you did IBR for 20-25 years you'd owe a tax bomb because the amount forgiven would be considered income. PSLF isn't really feasible as a dentist (places that qualify will make you want to rip your balls out)

Wait aren’t you a med student? How would you know. I know multiple dentists, GPS and specialists that clear $500k a year. To do so you’ll have to own, but it’s definitely possible. Also private practices in medicine is declining. Most physicians will be working in a hospital or corporate based office, so while the money is good, you most likely won’t be the owner of the place you’re working at.

My take is that the average pay for a physician is higher, but income potential for dentists often is higher because as an owner the sky is the limit.

 

[yappy]

I have heard from numerous family members that I should pursue dentistry. They say it is a 9-5 job where you make $500k a year with a stress-free life. Is this true? Would I have to open my own practice in the middle of nowhere to reach this income? They make it seem as if I will live this life in my mid 30's, which I feel is highly unlikely. I do want to become a dentist because of the ability to help people, but I was a bit hesitant seeing the insane tuition for dental school. I was under the impression that dentists made 2-300k, from which a massive chunk would be taken for student loan tuition for the first ten years. I expect to be in 600-700k of debt once I would exit dental school.

1.) Dentistry is an extremely stressful profession.
2.) Most dentists make between 120-200k per year. 500k is an outlier.

It is good that you want to go into dentistry to deliver healthcare to people who need it. If you're looking into dentistry because of perceived low stress or money, I say look elsewhere. You will not be satisfied. Become a dentist because you want to practice dentistry.
I recommend not going into more than 200k in debt to become a dentist. If that is not possible there are a lot of other healthcare fields you can explore that have lower debt; nursing/NP, PA, MD/DO.

EDIT: @howdoiknow Most medical services are elective, or at least necessary but not urgent, and therefore physicians must also "sell". I cannot tell you how many patients I've seen that have been consulted by their physicians for procedures that they elected not to do because they were not convinced, or did not have the funds for it. Unless you're in an insular area of medicine where you deal primarily with emergencies you will also have to "sell" (aka educate) people on why they have x diagnosis, should take y medication, or should have z procedure. Most medical students do not know this because it takes medical school and residency before they are exposed the real world. Your productivity as a physician will also be tracked by your employer to make sure you're "selling" enough. I agree with your points regarding medical graduates earning more money, and having lower educational debt, than dental students. Medicine is a solid career option, but the dominant hospital system in my area pays FTE IM/FM ~130-170k, not 250-300k.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I know multiple dentists, GPS and specialists that clear $500k a year.

These people are outliers. Then again, everyone on SDN assumes they are a future outlier.

OP, there is no way I would become a dentist if it would cost me $400,000+. If you owe $600,000 in student loans and you want to pay that off in say 20 years, your monthly loan payment will be around $4,500/month FOR TWO DECADES. That's $55,000/year. And of course that's paid with after tax money. So you will have to earn almost $70,000/year just to pay your student loans. Think about that. That is like the median US family income just to pay for your student loans. Add in all of life's other expenses and it's a pretty dire picture. That is probably why we never see people who have loans at these levels come on SDN and say that level of educational debt is totally manageable.

Big Hoss

 

[nobeldds]

I have heard from numerous family members that I should pursue dentistry. They say it is a 9-5 job where you make $500k a year with a stress-free life. Is this true? Would I have to open my own practice in the middle of nowhere to reach this income? They make it seem as if I will live this life in my mid 30's, which I feel is highly unlikely. I do want to become a dentist because of the ability to help people, but I was a bit hesitant seeing the insane tuition for dental school. I was under the impression that dentists made 2-300k, from which a massive chunk would be taken for student loan tuition for the first ten years. I expect to be in 600-700k of debt once I would exit dental school.

$550k is the absolute upper limited for what a dentist could make as an associate, and most would never come close to this number. $140k is the bare minimum if you are willing to work 5 days a week. After a few years, associate dentists generally make $180-250k. Slightly more if you own.

To get into the $300k+ range as an associate, several stars would need aligning… you need a strong consistent flow of patients, high enough fees, a high enough compensation %, you need to be fast, you need to offer a wider variety of treatments than your peers. It is hard to find yourself in this position, and I wouldn’t count on it without compromising where you want to live.

Making $500k as an associate without compromising treatment quality, getting sued several times or practicing over-treatment would be unlikely and would be extremely stressful.

 

[ddsjc2014]

Def you can make $500k and above. However, you will ended up in long term care facility within 2-3 years.

 

[howdoiknow]

How would you know. I know multiple dentists, GPS and specialists that clear $500k a year.

These people are outliers. I also have heard of EM docs making $1m/year working 72 hrs/week in the boonies however that is probably less than 0.25% of EM docs (typical is 36 with 1 month vacation for $350-$450k). Nobody will start out making the top salary in their field and most people like to scale down their hours as they grow older. Also, nobody can just say "30x years x 350k =11m" because you don't know what life throws at you. You might take a few months off, go part-time for a while, get laid off during a pandemic, etc... Always best to be conservative and calculate the worst possible outcome while shooting for the best

If it was SO easy/feasible to make $500k why aren't more dentists "settling" for $250-$300k? The average is definitely lower as an associate in a bigger city ($130-$150k) and $200k in smaller cities.

 

[TanMan]

I have heard from numerous family members that I should pursue dentistry. They say it is a 9-5 job where you make $500k a year with a stress-free life. Is this true? Would I have to open my own practice in the middle of nowhere to reach this income? They make it seem as if I will live this life in my mid 30's, which I feel is highly unlikely. I do want to become a dentist because of the ability to help people, but I was a bit hesitant seeing the insane tuition for dental school. I was under the impression that dentists made 2-300k, from which a massive chunk would be taken for student loan tuition for the first ten years. I expect to be in 600-700k of debt once I would exit dental school.

I'd probably say most owner dentists make at least 500k/year. Associates are a hit or miss deal for the 500k.

 

[howdoiknow]

No most dentists don't make 500k/yr. If you willing to go into residency which takes another 2-6years, you can make more. However, no medical practitioners average close to 500k/yr. Someone sent me this a while ago, I forgot the source.

This list is hilariously incorrect and doesn't really paint a good picture. They must be averaging attending and resident salaries. Any anesthesiologist working ~45 hrs a week is making minimum $400k. Even my school starts them out at $380k (and academia often pays 20-30% less than private practice). I understand it's taking the AVERAGE which could mean residents, moms or semi-retired professionals who work 0.5 FTE. Hospitalists here make $330k working 7 on 7 off, psych $300k 35-40 hrs a week, etc.

 

[TanMan]

lol no. The general rule is $500-$700/day. Most dentists are making $130-$200k (140k as an associate in most major cities like SF or NC) and closer to $200k in smaller cities in the south/midwest (not necessarily rural). You can increase that to $300k or so by opening your own practice (easier said than done and will require LOTS of patience, business acumen, $$$$ upfront to build said practice and a bit of luck.

If you're not competitive for a state school that costs <$250k and you're going to a school like USC, NYU or midwestern that costs $500k-$700k then you need to be realistic and realize the worst possible outcome is you'll make $180k pre-tax

If you want a guaranteed $250-$300k (minimum) then go to med school. I don't know a single family doctor who works at least 40 hrs a week and makes less than $250k in private practice. If you're smart and hard-working enough to do anesthesia or ENT for example, expect $400-$600k

My personal take: To be honest I would never consider dentistry because from my point of view it feels like you have to be a salesman on top of being a doctor. You essentially have to convince and SELL your services to your patients (If you want to break that $200k barrier). Patients will decline even necessary services. They'll always think you're ripping them off even if you're honest and have pure intentions. This happens MUCH less frequently in medicine. The students at the local dental school told me they wished they took a gap year and tried for medicine.

If your total COA was $250k (or had dentist parents paying for it and handing you a lucrative practice) then I'd say go for it.

You can't have a bad day and your work is judged and scrutinized all the time. Yes, medicine is slightly more difficult but some primary care specialties 80% of the day can be dull and boring cookie-cutter plans.

Also, you would need to pay $7500/mo to pay off $650k loan in 10 years. That's not feasible if you're only making $100-$130k post-tax. Even if you did IBR for 20-25 years you'd owe a tax bomb because the amount forgiven would be considered income. PSLF isn't really feasible as a dentist (places that qualify will make you want to rip your balls out)

In a good office, you shouldn't have to sell. That's your staff's job. If you're having to do the selling, that's wasted unbillable hours that could be delegated to others.

$550k is the absolute upper limited for what a dentist could make as an associate, and most would never come close to this number. $140k is the bare minimum if you are willing to work 5 days a week. After a few years, associate dentists generally make $180-250k. Slightly more if you own.

To get into the $300k+ range as an associate, several stars would need aligning… you need a strong consistent flow of patients, high enough fees, a high enough compensation %, you need to be fast, you need to offer a wider variety of treatments than your peers. It is hard to find yourself in this position, and I wouldn’t count on it without compromising where you want to live.

Making $500k as an associate without compromising treatment quality, getting sued several times or practicing over-treatment would be unlikely and would be extremely stressful.

There is no absolute upper limit... There are only circumstances that will lead to productivity or nonproductivity.

Def you can make $500k and above. However, you will ended up in long term care facility within 2-3 years.

This is crazy. Not all dentists who make a lot of money are crazy or debilitated. Making money doesn't make you crazy. Having inefficient systems and/or poor workflows and working against them to make money will make you crazy.

What's great about dentistry is that I don't have to take oncall, I don't have to work more than 35 hours a week (I work 30 or if I run over a little extra, maybe 31 or 32), no one is probably going to die in my chair and make me liable, I don't have to take the work home with me, charting is so much easier than medical, and if these averages are to be believed, which I don't, I think dentistry has a lot of intangible benefits compared to the stresses of medicine.

 

[LegendaryPanda]

I come from a family of health professions and have about 3 dentists in my immediate family once removed, and notice there's a lot of misinfo in here.

Firstly, that chart is straight up wrong. Physician's don't only make 200k-250k. The lowest paid specialty is probably pediatrics and they will still clear 200k easily unless they're in a super saturated area working in some sort of community health center getting paid peanuts by the dollar. Most physicians would be making closer to 250k-350k on average, with the higher paid specialties being paid 350k+ and these numbers are being generously inclusive.

Secondly, I won't even touch the dental specialties salary on the chart as that's obviously wrong but I will add that perhaps the most accurate thing in that chart would be general dentists making around 155k, that is if we're just talking about part-time associateship. I understand that a med student with no actual knowledge in the field could get something like this wrong, but I have no idea why actual dentists would perpetuate this myth that the average range includes 130k. Literally every metric, including testimonials as well as the recruiter pages, says otherwise. As an associate, you should be making closer to 160k-220k. If you're really curious and still don't trust all those metrics, then maybe pay an accountant for their data.

On the other hand, the stories of practices paying a starting salary of $400-$500 per day equating 100k-130k are true. But something that SDN never talks about is that this is the starting rate. This does not include negotiations for collections or productions after a year of practice. In fact, a good practice would give you one a few months of practice. As an average full time associate, if you're making 130k by the second year, then you're being underpaid. If you're making 130k, after that, then you're working part time.

And this notion about dentists needing to sell the procedure is overblown. Do you non dental professionals really think dentists need to sell their procedures? Patient comes in with sharp pain or swelling and you think we need to sell a root canal? No good dentist needs to sell their procedures. Make the diagnosis, create treatment options and alternatives, and let them understand the consequences, then let the patient decide. If anything, patients would actually start distrusting you if you start "selling" procedures.

 

[TanMan]

I come from a family of health professions and have about 3 dentists in my immediate family once removed, and notice there's a lot of misinfo in here.

Firstly, that chart is straight up wrong. Physician's don't only make 200k-250k. The lowest paid specialty is probably pediatrics and they will still clear 200k easily unless they're in a super saturated area working in some sort of community health center getting paid peanuts by the dollar. Most physicians would be making closer to 250k-350k on average, with the higher paid specialties being paid 350k+ and these numbers are being generously inclusive.

Secondly, I won't even touch the dental specialties salary on the chart as that's obviously wrong but I will add that perhaps the most accurate thing in that chart would be general dentists making around 155k, that is if we're just talking about part-time associateship. I understand that a med student with no actual knowledge in the field could get something like this wrong, but I have no idea why actual dentists would perpetuate this myth that the average range includes 130k. Literally every metric, including testimonials as well as the recruiter pages, says otherwise. As an associate, you should be making closer to 160k-220k. If you're really curious and still don't trust all those metrics, then maybe pay an accountant for their data.

On the other hand, the stories of practices paying a starting salary of $400-$500 per day equating 100k-130k are true. But something that SDN never talks about is that this is the starting rate. This does not include negotiations for collections or productions after a year of practice. In fact, a good practice would give you one a few months of practice. As an average full time associate, if you're making 130k by the second year, then you're being underpaid. If you're making 130k, after that, then you're working part time.

And this notion about dentists needing to sell the procedure is overblown. Do you non dental professionals really think dentists need to sell their procedures? Patient comes in with sharp pain or swelling and you think we need to sell a root canal? No good dentist needs to sell their procedures. Make the diagnosis, create treatment options and alternatives, and let them understand the consequences, then let the patient decide. If anything, patients would actually start distrusting you if you start "selling" procedures.

People who choose to get paid 400-500/day... that's their own damn fault. Your last paragraph is completely true. You tell them what you see, you tell them what the options are (and if they ask why you can't do so and so, explain why), tell them what you would do if it were your tooth and why, and leave it to them to decide. That should take no more than a few minutes and let your assistant do the rest. By doing that, you've done your duty of informed consent and respecting the patient's autonomy at the same time. If a tooth can be saved and the patient chooses to extract the tooth, so be it. Let the patient know that you'll take care of them, and if they ever want a tooth back, you can put a tooth back. Every minute counts for a dentist and at this time, I think a dentist's time is worth at least 40-50 dollars a minute (or less, depending on how much wasted time you have in a day and how many hours you work in a day). Dentists waste a lot of time on unbillable tasks.

 

[ElCubanito]

I make 280K base salary and 24PTO a year. Full Benefits. GP.

I used to "clear" 600k when I was in private practice seeing 35-40 patients a day; working M-S. I did this for over 7 years.

I am a program director now so my patient contacts are LOW. I would not go back to making 600K due to the stress and detriment that kind of practice has on you. I can probably coast for the next 30 years here.

 

[luisfigo]

Seriously doubt anesthesiologist make so little, that's crna range

 

[somefuturedoc]

I make 280K base salary and 24PTO a year. Full Benefits. GP.

I used to "clear" 600k when I was in private practice seeing 35-40 patients a day; working M-S. I did this for over 7 years.

I am a program director now so my patient contacts are LOW. I would not go back to making 600K due to the stress and detriment that kind of practice has on you. I can probably coast for the next 30 years here.

Appreciate you sharing this. It’s rare to see real numbers in this site.

 

[yappy]

Deleted

 

[Screwtape]

Nah…most don’t. But a lot do. That’s mostly owners though.

 

[DDSfinally2018]

lol no. The general rule is $500-$700/day. Most dentists are making $130-$200k (140k as an associate in most major cities like SF or NC) and closer to $200k in smaller cities in the south/midwest (not necessarily rural). You can increase that to $300k or so by opening your own practice (easier said than done and will require LOTS of patience, business acumen, $$$$ upfront to build said practice and a bit of luck.

If you're not competitive for a state school that costs <$250k and you're going to a school like USC, NYU or midwestern that costs $500k-$700k then you need to be realistic and realize the worst possible outcome is you'll make $180k pre-tax

If you want a guaranteed $250-$300k (minimum) then go to med school. I don't know a single family doctor who works at least 40 hrs a week and makes less than $250k in private practice. If you're smart and hard-working enough to do anesthesia or ENT for example, expect $400-$600k

My personal take: To be honest I would never consider dentistry because from my point of view it feels like you have to be a salesman on top of being a doctor. You essentially have to convince and SELL your services to your patients (If you want to break that $200k barrier). Patients will decline even necessary services. They'll always think you're ripping them off even if you're honest and have pure intentions. This happens MUCH less frequently in medicine. The students at the local dental school told me they wished they took a gap year and tried for medicine.

If your total COA was $250k (or had dentist parents paying for it and handing you a lucrative practice) then I'd say go for it.

You can't have a bad day and your work is judged and scrutinized all the time. Yes, medicine is slightly more difficult but some primary care specialties 80% of the day can be dull and boring cookie-cutter plans.

Also, you would need to pay $7500/mo to pay off $650k loan in 10 years. That's not feasible if you're only making $100-$130k post-tax. Even if you did IBR for 20-25 years you'd owe a tax bomb because the amount forgiven would be considered income. PSLF isn't really feasible as a dentist (places that qualify will make you want to rip your balls out)

I don't think you know because you're not a dentist.. You don't have to be a salesman... People who need treatment need it, are in lots of pain, etc... I've never felt like I needed to be a salesman... And it's super easy to break the 200k barrier... And I've never heard students saying that they wished they switched to medicine. All of the dental students I have spoken to said they are super happy about their career choice compared to medicine... especially since dentists have a much better quality of life, yet can make much more money...

 

[PerioDont]

This is skewed with selection bias as the people who go to CW accounting are generally doing better but there is averages for all dental practice owners and specialists on here. But I still think its a report thats fun to read.

A DMD/DDS is not a guarantee you will kill it or make even 100k/yr. You gotta go out there and earn it. Nothing in life worth having is 'super easy'

I still would not get into 6-700k in debt for dental school

 

[2TH MVR]

You gotta go out there and earn it. Nothing in life worth having is 'super easy'

I still would not get into 6-700k in debt for dental school

Yep. Gotta work for it. I know plenty of owner dentists that never made big money. They made a good living, but nothing extravagant. So ..for all you "sky is the limit" predents, dents, etc. .... just remember. There's more to financial success than simply being a dentist owner. You can be the smartest dentist in the world, but if you are in a bad location. Terrible business skills. Recession/depression/pandemic. Tons of Corp and dentist competition. Etc. Etc. You'll be fighting everyday to make your dental business grow. And for some .... just to stay relevant.

Don't go into a ton of DS debt (6-700K) because your faculty teacher (someone who couldn't cut it as a dentist, or was disabled) says that you will have no problem making big bucks.

 

[PerioDont]

OP you can also go on dental town and get more opinions from practicing dentists. I would guess 95%+ would suggest avoiding 6-700k in debt

 

[Zeldaspikes]

No most dentists don't make 500k/yr. If you willing to go into residency which takes another 2-6years, you can make more. However, no medical practitioners average close to 500k/yr. Someone sent me this a while ago, I forgot the source.

Very very inaccurate

 

[Rambunctious]

I like how OP made one post and is a ghost now leaving everyone battling it out lol. If OP comes back I want to say that if you are a private practice owner and smart with your business decisions, $500K is definitely reachable.

 

[teeth!]

It seems like all these posts boil down to two lessons
1. keep your debt low (as anyone should)
2. smart/hard work, not a degree after your name, is going to make you successful
These both seem very straight-forward, if people working in tech or finance, don't work hard, they won't be successful either.

 

[Mauricio45]

Yep. Gotta work for it. I know plenty of owner dentists that never made big money. They made a good living, but nothing extravagant. So ..for all you "sky is the limit" predents, dents, etc. .... just remember. There's more to financial success than simply being a dentist owner. You can be the smartest dentist in the world, but if you are in a bad location. Terrible business skills. Recession/depression/pandemic. Tons of Corp and dentist competition. Etc. Etc. You'll be fighting everyday to make your dental business grow. And for some .... just to stay relevant.

Hence why I like working for a corp. You don't have to worry about that.

 

[Rambunctious]

Hence why I like working for a corp. You don't have to worry about that.

dont lie to yourself, no one likes working for a corp

 

[Mauricio45]

dont lie to yourself, no one likes working for a corp

Lol. It's better than working at a private office where the owner's wife or husband works there as the OM or treatment coordinator. And they have no knowledge nor background in dentistry. 🤣

Sure, corp isn't perfect but I like the "level playing field" since none of the other dentists owns the practice. The autonomy tends to be better at corps than private offices. Maybe it's just the corp I work for. Every corp is different. Private office associateships are really "bottom of the barrel" that only attracts naive new grads.

 

[howdoiknow]

Lol. It's better than working at a private office where the owner's wife or husband works there as the OM or treatment coordinator. And they have no knowledge nor background in dentistry. 🤣

Sure, corp isn't perfect but I like the "level playing field" since none of the other dentists owns the practice. The autonomy tends to be better at corps than private offices. Maybe it's just the corp I work for. Every corp is different. Private office associateships are really "bottom of the barrel" that only attracts naive new grads.

How do you feel about practices like Dentology? It's a group of dentists (I think 3 owners?) and they have dozens of others working under them in Chicago

 

[Mauricio45]

How do you feel about practices like Dentology? It's a group of dentists (I think 3 owners?) and they have dozens of others working under them in Chicago

I've never heard of them. But the corp I work under is owned by one dentist. I've never had any real issues. Some things I don't like but you're never going to get a "perfect" associateship.

I wouldn't want to work for a corp owned by a non-dentist. There was talk on DentalTown.com awhile ago about hygienists purchasing general dentist office. I'm sure most dentists would not want to work under a hygienist (or any non-dentist for that matter). There was even a poll on DentalTown and most dentists wouldn't want to work under them (not surprisingly).

 

[howdoiknow]

I've never heard of them. But the corp I work under is owned by one dentist. I've never had any real issues. Some things I don't like but you're never going to get a "perfect" associateship.

I wouldn't want to work for a corp owned by a non-dentist. There was talk on DentalTown.com awhile ago about hygienists purchasing general dentist office. I'm sure most dentists would not want to work under a hygienist (or any non-dentist for that matter). There was even a poll on DentalTown and most dentists wouldn't want to work under them (not surprisingly).

What about this

It looks like it costs $15m. Is the money in dentistry THAT good? I know tons of cardiologists and plastic surgeons who make crazy money and their practices look nothing like this

 

[DentGent13]

What about this

It looks like it costs $15m. Is the money in dentistry THAT good? I know tons of cardiologists and plastic surgeons who make crazy money and their practices look nothing like this

Money is good if you're an owner and have all the toys at your disposal. I only skimmed the vid but those 6 milling machines will make them $$$. Also, if it's a high volume office like most corps are, then they're definitely trying to hit at least $700k-$1.5m production per GP and much more per specialist. Parking lot looks like it got 60-80 spots, and if they hire a third of that many dentists per day, then the owner would make back that $15mil in a couple years time. The problem for most people is getting that $15mil, investors, or some people just don't want to be owners, or the ethicality or quality of the provided care.

 

[PerioDont]

What about this

It looks like it costs $15m. Is the money in dentistry THAT good? I know tons of cardiologists and plastic surgeons who make crazy money and their practices look nothing like this

This guy is an anomaly of an anomaly. This type of practice has an extremely high overhead, but he is an extremely talented marketer and business person so he’s gonna do well.

People like that with that kind of drive and vision would’ve been very successful dentist or not

 

[Rambunctious]

Lol. It's better than working at a private office where the owner's wife or husband works there as the OM or treatment coordinator. And they have no knowledge nor background in dentistry. 🤣

Sure, corp isn't perfect but I like the "level playing field" since none of the other dentists owns the practice. The autonomy tends to be better at corps than private offices. Maybe it's just the corp I work for. Every corp is different. Private office associateships are really "bottom of the barrel" that only attracts naive new grads.

Well you want to get into a private practice where you have potential to buy out or even partner with the owner. If you like working at corp that's fine but all you'll ever be at corp is an associate. If you're cool with that then more power to you, but I knew i wanted to be the boss when i graduated dent school.

 

[nimbus]

No most dentists don't make 500k/yr. If you willing to go into residency which takes another 2-6years, you can make more. However, no medical practitioners average close to 500k/yr. Someone sent me this a while ago, I forgot the source.

That chart is outdated by 15years.

 

[Lil Norkii the Supreme]

My take home is around 1.2mil a year for the past 12yrs but you definitely wont make 500k even if you die trying good luck and it becomes stress free job only after you die a lonely death in the chair

 

[seatown]

First of all, as a practicing dentist (who used to be on SDN as an applicant way back when), NO, 500k/yr is definitely an outlier, and definitely those that are making that are not doing it stress free.

More importantly, however, don't do any job because of money. What if you hate doing dentistry? Have you ever shadowed a dentist at their office? Get to know the field, watch a couple dentists for a week or two each, get a feel for it, and then decide if you even want to consider it more.

Back to the money. Get ready to take on lots of loans before you make money. Can you make a good living? Yes. Can you make 500k/yr without working hard? NO. Don't kid yourself. Not to be rude, just keeping it real.

 

[macattackDMD]

I’m currently an Ortho resident and looking to make anywhere from 250-350 starting salary, based on the jobs my coresidents have gotten the previous years and talking to dental reps (very valuable sources of info because they have an ear in every office in the region). Most of my mentors who are well established in the field make between 600-800k. Some more, some less depending on how many days they work.

The difference between a successful practitioner and average practitioner really comes down to how well you can talk to people. Obviously you have to work hard and be smart, but there are plenty very talented people with great hand skills who never achieve their true financial potential because they can’t talk to/ relate to patients. Don’t focus on the money, focus on providing great dental care and EXPLAINING things to patients. Focus on taking the extra couple minutes to talk to them about their day…believe me it’s worth it. Patients can’t tell and honestly don’t care if they’re a 1/4 cusp class II molar. They notice if you’re real with them and take a genuine interest in them. That is what makes them tell their friends and write reviews. That is what makes the kind of money the “outliers” make. Every single one of the dentists and specialists I know who treat their patients this way have successful practices.

 

[RocDoc12]

Become a nurse practitioner

There’s an over abundance of nurse practitioners with all the on line schools.

 

[Roto Picante]

Closing in on 1 year as an owner. On track to collect between 1.1 and 1.2 mil this year. Overhead at 42% before practice note doing bread and butter dentistry. (I have not done a RCT or placed a single implant this year). Will have worked 172 days when we finish out the year.

It can be done but yes I recognize I am an in a situation that make me outlier. I live in a high reimbursement state and lucked into the perfect practice.

 

[UltraTooth]

lol no. The general rule is $500-$700/day. Most dentists are making $130-$200k (140k as an associate in most major cities like SF or NC) and closer to $200k in smaller cities in the south/midwest (not necessarily rural). You can increase that to $300k or so by opening your own practice (easier said than done and will require LOTS of patience, business acumen, $$$$ upfront to build said practice and a bit of luck.

If you're not competitive for a state school that costs <$250k and you're going to a school like USC, NYU or midwestern that costs $500k-$700k then you need to be realistic and realize the worst possible outcome is you'll make $180k pre-tax

If you want a guaranteed $250-$300k (minimum) then go to med school. I don't know a single family doctor who works at least 40 hrs a week and makes less than $250k in private practice. If you're smart and hard-working enough to do anesthesia or ENT for example, expect $400-$600k

My personal take: To be honest I would never consider dentistry because from my point of view it feels like you have to be a salesman on top of being a doctor. You essentially have to convince and SELL your services to your patients (If you want to break that $200k barrier). Patients will decline even necessary services. They'll always think you're ripping them off even if you're honest and have pure intentions. This happens MUCH less frequently in medicine. The students at the local dental school told me they wished they took a gap year and tried for medicine.

If your total COA was $250k (or had dentist parents paying for it and handing you a lucrative practice) then I'd say go for it.

You can't have a bad day and your work is judged and scrutinized all the time. Yes, medicine is slightly more difficult but some primary care specialties 80% of the day can be dull and boring cookie-cutter plans.

Also, you would need to pay $7500/mo to pay off $650k loan in 10 years. That's not feasible if you're only making $100-$130k post-tax. Even if you did IBR for 20-25 years you'd owe a tax bomb because the amount forgiven would be considered income. PSLF isn't really feasible as a dentist (places that qualify will make you want to rip your balls out)

I agree completely. Medical school will give you so many more opportunities at much higher pay and LESS stress.

 

[Rambunctious]

I agree completely. Medical school will give you so many more opportunities at much higher pay and LESS stress.

Really less stress? Physicians work terrible and long hours, and most of them will never own their own practice like dentists. I own my own practice, come in on time or late (stress free) and leave at 430 pm daily. Work stops there, i'm not on call like physicians .

 

[DrBendova]

Most dentist START at around 150-200k. This come from my friends in FL that are 3rd and 4th years and already have job offers. Some got job offers >200k.

I have two good friends that own their private practice and clear 700k. But they are in their 50s and are well established in rural areas. If you do own a private practice clear 500k is possible with time, building your reputation, etc.

Don’t listen to some of these comments from med students/PA/nurses. Especially if they tell you to look into other careers. Do your research and ask questions to people actually in the profession.

 

[LittleEinstein]

I have heard from numerous family members that I should pursue dentistry. They say it is a 9-5 job where you make $500k a year with a stress-free life. Is this true? Would I have to open my own practice in the middle of nowhere to reach this income? They make it seem as if I will live this life in my mid 30's, which I feel is highly unlikely. I do want to become a dentist because of the ability to help people, but I was a bit hesitant seeing the insane tuition for dental school. I was under the impression that dentists made 2-300k, from which a massive chunk would be taken for student loan tuition for the first ten years. I expect to be in 600-700k of debt once I would exit dental school.

A lot of people who know very little about dentistry in these comments lol. I would recommend getting on Dentaltown and talking to actual dentists. My significant other is a dentist and I can confirm that several dentists who he is friends with/were in his graduating class are making this much (and more). Not as associates, however. These people own their own businesses. For example, the dentist he works for makes ~600k-700k a year as an owner. As an associate, you’re typically making ~30% of production. However, as an owner, you’ll obviously be making more and also pocketing what the hygienists produce which can make a big difference. Definitely go on Dentaltown, though. I’m sure they can give you more info than anyone here.

 

[thetoothguy]

Lol the average that I've seen from every GP who does not own a practice is around 130-140 a year. As many before have said, you won't break 200k without doing a lot of advanced services over hours most likely longer than 9-5.

Here's my situation as a GP in a non-profit clinic in the Bronx (which if you take on massive debt, like I did at NYU, you'll want to aim for PSLF as your route to getting rid of the student loans)

I make $135k salaried, so that's $3,562 biweekly after taxes (no dependents). My REPAYE amount is likely gonna be around $700 when those go back into repayment in February (it's around 8k if I did a standard 10 year repayment plan). I don't pay malpractice and I get a stipend every year that covers all my CE if I go to the GNYDM lots of days.

Being in private practice, you'll make either $500 a day minimum or 35% of collections and if you work in a medicaid clinic, you'd need to work like a dog to make that $500. Medicaid will pay around $50 total for a limited exam, xrays and extraction. You're taking home around $18 for probably 30 minutes of your time. An exam, checkup and cleaning is around $70, fillings range from $25-$50, and sealants are $20 a piece.

Long story short, that 9-5 500k figure is wildly inaccurate for the average dentist. That's probably for an above average practice owner.

 

[laster67]

As a former pre-med now in dental school, my 2 cents:
What your family members think about dentistry WAS true 20 years ago, and is somewhat true now but is in transition. If you look at the official data, reports, and speak to people at the ADA (which I have):
dentistry is becoming wildly saturated: older pple disproportionately support dentistry, and this baby boomer generation is dying off.
A large cohorts of dentists graduated in the mid70s to mid80s (people were saying dentistry is oversaturated), many schools closed. But now many schools have opened, and 6,300 dental school spots per class are being pumped out.
The above ^cohort have been retiring which has kept the numbers constant, but from now till 2040 there will be many more dentists per demand. And working adults nowadays are less likely to pursue dental care regularly ... dentists here will say you shouldn't have to sell if you have good systems (but those pple are also good salesman lol.)
Yes Doctors also need to be salesman but it doesn't determine their livelihood as much.
Yes its become much harder to pursue private practice medicine - it is possible but harder especially the more specialized you are. Dentistry: researchers at ADA believe based on the data that the shift to corporate dentistry and DSO's is largely demographics driven. Dentistry is dominant female and people of color now, and those people are apparently less likely to pursue private practice ownership. That's also a generational thing: younger people aren't as willing to make those sacrifices.

Private dental schools are trading off the perception your family perpetuates to overcharge their students. Like, its very very unethical. They will also be happy to accept anyone in order to fill their class, even people who's application would shock you (badly.) You don't think you deserve to pay 500k? Fine, accept that kid with a 3.1 GPA or the hygenist with a 13 PAT section from the DAT. Seriously ... And once you're in school, exams are very straightforward and simple! so anyone can cram and do well.
I only chose dentistry when I had the stats to show that I could get into cheaper schools (my in-state school effectively told me I was a great applicant.) COVID happened, DAT was delayed, I'm Asian ---> going to an expensive school. There are NO guarentees and you never know how a school that can only accept 3/4% of applicants will look at the apps. I've heard Rutgers just tosses half the apps out the door regardless.

I'll say you should 1.) go to a cheaper school. There are schools besides your state school that are also more cheap. Militairy is also a GREAT option, even if you don't get 4-year you can apply to 3-year as soon as you start school. If you look at the value of their pay + not having to earn to pay debt down, + their training, its a super great option!!! I'm not doing it only cause I want to specialize (otherwise it'd be offensive how much I sacrificed to risk having such little take-home. I also can't move to a unsaturated are b/c lifestyle.)

To pursue dentistry you need to be aboslutely sure you want to have your own practice. Do the militiary route, work for them 3-5 years, save money for 10% of a practice and a bank will fund the rest. Buy or start a practice. There are no guarenteed minimums and its complicated to do this, but you hAVE too.

 

[gryffindor]

Fine, accept that kid with a 3.1 GPA or the hygenist with a 13 PAT section from the DAT.

There were people accepted into my class 21 years ago with these stats. A state school that cost $100K total including living expenses. Back when dental school was really uncool and super cheap. Medical school was the place to be.

I have to laugh when I read these threads. I went into dentistry to live a solid part-time life. Yes I'm a woman but I also own my practice because if you're a driven individual, working for someone else sucks. I don't know who all these people are looking to be associates forever or work for DSOs just to collect a paycheck. I would seriously quit if I had to have a boss again. This job sucks if you don't have complete control over what you do, unless you can close your eyes and be borderline unethical to do whatever you must for a paycheck.

If you don't feel up for joining the 6 days/week club when you graduate with 600K in debt, you should not be thinking about dental school.

 

[dentalpk]

I agree completely. Medical school will give you so many more opportunities at much higher pay and LESS stress.

Less stress??? You don’t have any idea what you are talking about unless you are a practicing physician

 

[NDPitch]

I'm in my third full year of private practice. I work Monday - Thursday 8-5:30 or so, and Friday 8-2:30. I'm a general dentist, working as an associate. I work on 30% production. I do 98% restorative dentistry. I don't do "advanced procedures" such as implants, root canals, extractions, Invisalign, etc. 98% of what I do is fillings, crowns, bridges, restoring implants, and hygiene. It's mostly single tooth dentistry. I get the occasional patient that wants to do some smile makeover stuff. I had a patient this year where we did an entire upper arch of crowns. Those can be equal parts fun and stressful, though. The rest of the procedures usually get referred to the specialists. My schedule could be busier - I have white spots here and there.

I work in a saturated market in the suburbs of Boston.

This year, my gross earnings on my W2 will likely be $170,000. I leave production on the table by not doing the "advanced" procedures, but they're also stressful to do. And speaking of stress, don't think dentistry isn't stressful. It's very stressful. Working on a patient that's awake, that likely doesn't want to be there, that's paying a lot of money for you to do good work, while you're hunched over them, is very stressful.

But the biggest contributing factor to my income is the fact that dental insurance companies are robbing us. We're only in network with 2 insurance companies, and that has us writing off 30% of production for those patients. The dream is to drop insurance companies and go fee for service.

I'm looking to a buy a small private practice soon, and hope to work 4 days a week and make 200k a year. We'll see what happens.

So the short answer to your question is no, not all dentists make 500k a year. And to be honest, the ones that do, are doing very high volume in bigger practices. And when you get to that level, I feel the quality suffers. It's hard to produce that much dentistry and have the quality be great. There's some real crap dentistry out there in people's mouths.