Dating in Med School for a Girl? Disturbing Trend?

[PL198]

I'm not single.

OK? Neither are most chicks that are 5'5 200. That's not impressive.

You don't ask a fish how to catch fish. You ask fishermen.

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[Lucca]

OK? Neither are more chicks that are 5'5 200. That's not impressive.

You don't ask a fish how to catch fish. You ask fishermen.

Lolwut. Is that what dating is? Fishing?

 

[Mad Jack]

You're delusional

I completely agree with @Lucca and I'm also not single. It's always amusing how the guys who are most adamant that "you don't understand women" or that "most men are delusional" are the ones that are always alone and generally unhappy with their dating lives

^typical TRPer

 

[Lucca]

I completely agree with @Lucca and I'm also not single. It's always amusing how the guys who are most adamant that "you don't understand women" or that "most men are delusional" are the ones that are always alone and generally unhappy with their dating lives

^typical TRPer

yah the point I was trying to make is that if you want to know what women want just ask them. They are pretty forthcoming and they don't all want the same things. Some of them want children and to stay at home all of the time taking care of them. Some of them want a career and don't give two ****s about men unwilling to support them. Some women don't want to be exclusive. I could go on and on.

The fishing example made me LoL because what you are saying is that women (or men) are just raw materials and they don't actually know what they want.

 

[Mad Jack]

yah the point I was trying to make is that if you want to know what women want just ask them. They are pretty forthcoming and they don't all want the same things. Some of them want children and to stay at home all of the time taking care of them. Some of them want a career and don't give two ****s about men unwilling to support them. Some women don't want to be exclusive. I could go on and on.

The fishing example made me LoL because what you are saying is that women (or men) are just raw materials and they don't actually know what they want.

Women can't know what women want, knowledge is man stuff!

 

[touchpause13]

OK? Neither are most chicks that are 5'5 200. That's not impressive.

You don't ask a fish how to catch fish. You ask fishermen.

1. That's gross and 2. You guys don't trust me either soooo

 

[ASD2019]

OK? Neither are most chicks that are 5'5 200. That's not impressive.

You don't ask a fish how to catch fish. You ask fishermen.

Dude even as a guy, how inferioriting your posts are towards women is a bit disturbing. Would you ever say some of the things you have said in this thread in real life? Or do you just feel secure hiding behind a screen?

 

[fancymylotus]

What happened in here?

 

[touchpause13]

What happened in here?

What always happens
TRP

 

[Pacna]

Doing something that shows drive, intelligence, ambition, a desire to serve others? You're right, f that.

I don't disagree with you that he said this tactlessly, but he really said a more concise version of what I said in my previous post. Your list is of characteristics that women generally find part of their criteria for mates. My, and probably most guys', criteria are different than yours. There's overlap, things like intelligence and compassion, but implying that PL is somehow wrong for not looking for the same things that you do in a mate is disrespectful to his values, and more broadly, to the values of the opposite gender. Not that I find him particularly deserving of respect given his boorishness, but he's exhibit A at the moment.

But again, I completely understand how people like you and I, who so highly value the traits you listed in ourselves, can project that preference onto others. I can see how it would be a bit baffling to us med students (the OP especially) that someone would drop any of these criteria for a mate, or even that any of those criteria could actually decrease a potential partner's attractiveness. It's no different than someone valuing a certain religious belief (read: characteristic) and wanting a mate to value it, too. A person of another religion (read: gender) might find that very same value repulsive. I think that's somewhat easier to identify with, and I think it's helpful to illustrate the point.

(Disclaimer: Please don't forget I'm talking in generalities. Plenty of men value exactly what you listed, but I think many more would bump some off that list in favor of other things. Many women would as well!)

 

[fancymylotus]

huh-uh-uuuuuuh....YOU CONVINCED ME!

Seriously though, if these women let go of the idea that they all deserve to be married to a tall white doctor their options will open up.

I don't want to be married to a tall (white) doctor. Lol

 

[touchpause13]

I don't disagree with you that he said this tactlessly, but he really said a more concise version of what I said in my previous post. Your list is of characteristics that women generally find part of their criteria for mates. My, and probably most guys', criteria are different than yours. There's overlap, things like intelligence and compassion, but implying that PL is somehow wrong for not looking for the same things that you do in a mate is disrespectful to his values, and more broadly, to the values of the opposite gender. Not that I find him particularly deserving of respect given his boorishness, but he's exhibit A at the moment.

But again, I completely understand how people like you and I, who so highly value the traits you listed in ourselves, can project that preference onto others. I can see how it would be a bit baffling to us med students (the OP especially) that someone would drop any of these criteria for a mate, or even that any of those criteria could actually decrease a potential partner's attractiveness. It's no different than someone valuing a certain religious belief (read: characteristic) and wanting a mate to value it, too. A person of another religion (read: gender) might find that very same value repulsive. I think that's somewhat easier to identify with, and I think it's helpful to illustrate the point.

(Disclaimer: Please don't forget I'm talking in generalities. Plenty of men value exactly what you listed, but I think many more would bump some off that list in favor of other things.)

I don't think it's wrong of him to have preferences. Everyone has preferences, you just don't have to portray them in the douchey-est way possible and be insulting towards women in medicine. While he may not find women in medicine sexy, not everyone thinks that way.

 

[Pacna]

I don't think it's wrong of him to have preferences. Everyone has preferences, you just don't have to portray them in the douchey-est way possible and be insulting towards women in medicine. While he may not find women in medicine sexy, not everyone thinks that way.

100% agree.

 

[PL198]

yah the point I was trying to make is that if you want to know what women want just ask them. They are pretty forthcoming and they don't all want the same things. Some of them want children and to stay at home all of the time taking care of them. Some of them want a career and don't give two ****s about men unwilling to support them. Some women don't want to be exclusive. I could go on and on.

The fishing example made me LoL because what you are saying is that women (or men) are just raw materials and they don't actually know what they want.

Lol women will tell you what they want? Are you joking me. Seriously that is the most hilarious phrase I've ever seen. No you don't know what you want, because you can't openly admit it.

Again, you're delusional. I'm pretty sure a fish knows what it likes to eat but it's not going to tell you. Comparing to materials? Lol fish are sentient beings, just like a person is.

 

[touchpause13]

Lol women will tell you what they want? Are you joking me. Seriously that is the most hilarious phrase I've ever seen. No you don't know what you want, because you can't openly admit it.

Again, you're delusional. I'm pretty sure a fish knows what it likes to eat but it's not going to tell you. Comparing to materials? Lol fish are sentient beings, just like a person is.

Fish are also prey. The whole analogy is really messed up because it's saying not only are men humans and women are not, but men are humans who kill and eat women. Just think about the logical conclusions of your analogy for a second

 

[PL198]

Stop being sensational.
A fisherman tries to catch a fish. Look how any male has to behave in mating. They are generally the one who has to indicate value to the female. There are few if any species where the opposite is true.

I'm not comparing it to eating a woman.

 

[freemontie]

Fish are also prey. The whole analogy is really messed up because it's saying not only are men humans and women are not, but men are humans who kill and eat women. Just think about the logical conclusions of your analogy for a second

Honestly tp13- it's like you go out of your way to feel offended on behalf of your gender.

 

[PL198]

And referencing TRP is hilarious. Someone disagrees with your view of sexual dynamics? Must be TRP. It's not logical or possible for anything else to exist. Either feminism or TRP.

False dichotomy ftw

 

[Señor S]

yah the point I was trying to make is that if you want to know what women want just ask them. They are pretty forthcoming and they don't all want the same things. Some of them want children and to stay at home all of the time taking care of them. Some of them want a career and don't give two ****s about men unwilling to support them. Some women don't want to be exclusive. I could go on and on

Except in most cases they'll want things that are at least somewhat contradictory (a high-powered successful career AND a loving close-knit family, for example). Men are the same way. We're always more objective about other people than about ourselves, and most people (regardless of gender) don't have a clear and consistent idea of what they really want.

 

[fancymylotus]

Lol women will tell you what they want? Are you joking me. Seriously that is the most hilarious phrase I've ever seen. No you don't know what you want, because you can't openly admit it.

Again, you're delusional. I'm pretty sure a fish knows what it likes to eat but it's not going to tell you. Comparing to materials? Lol fish are sentient beings, just like a person is.

Fairly certain not all of us have issues in this department. I have zero qualms about admitting what I want even though to 99% of the population it probably sounds superficial and stupid.

 

[Lucca]

Lol women will tell you what they want? Are you joking me. Seriously that is the most hilarious phrase I've ever seen. No you don't know what you want, because you can't openly admit it.

Again, you're delusional. I'm pretty sure a fish knows what it likes to eat but it's not going to tell you. Comparing to materials? Lol fish are sentient beings, just like a person is.

So animals aren't subservient to people? I'm guessing you eat fish all of the time.

Women will definitely tell you what they want lol. It might not always make sense but if that's the case that's when you jump off that boat and try to find another partner. I can't openly admit I know what I want? Or women can't? I don't understand. Help me understand

 

[touchpause13]

Except in most cases they'll want things that are at least somewhat contradictory (a high-powered successful career AND a loving close-knit family, for example). Men are the same way. We're always more objective about other people than about ourselves, and most people (regardless of gender) don't have a clear and consistent idea of what they really want.

Yeah but it ends up most often being used as examples of "bishes be crazy" instead of "human beings are complicated and want conflicting things"

 

[touchpause13]

Stop being sensational.
A fisherman tries to catch a fish. Look how any male has to behave in mating. They are generally the one who has to indicate value to the female. There are few if any species where the opposite is true.

I'm not comparing it to eating a woman.

I just hate this "man as pursuer" nonsense. It's 2015, anyone can pursue - we don't have to keep adhering to this neanderthal nonsense.
I also hate your analogy for reasons previously stated

 

[touchpause13]

So animals aren't subservient to people? I'm guessing you eat fish all of the time.

Women will definitely tell you what they want lol. It might not always make sense but if that's the case that's when you jump off that boat and try to find another partner. I can't openly admit I know what I want? Or women can't? I don't understand. Help me understand

Shhh
Understanding is for menz

 

[Lucca]

Honestly tp13- it's like you go out of your way to feel offended on behalf of your gender.

What is a slave going to know about slavery? they don't understand the South needs them to survive, they are critical to our economy.

"Maybe I don't appreciate being used like I'm a resource who needs someone to use me because I'm black and more like someone who makes decisions about my life"

"Honestly, it's like you go out of way to feel offended on behalf of your race"

And just like that I've ensured that this thread only gets more toxic.

 

[touchpause13]

Honestly tp13- it's like you go out of your way to feel offended on behalf of your gender.

Lol way to act like it's just me even though there are men and women calling out the sexist bs in thread.

 

[PL198]

Lol you just compared women to slaves.

 

[touchpause13]

What is a slave going to know about slavery? they don't understand the South needs them to survive, they are critical to our economy.

"Maybe I don't appreciate being used like I'm a resource who needs someone to use me because I'm black and more like someone who makes decisions about my life"

"Honestly, it's like you go out of way to feel offended on behalf of your race"

And just like that I've ensured that this thread only gets more toxic.

I don't think you want to here his opinions on race either....

 

[Lucca]

Lol you just compared women to slaves.

You did.

 

[PL198]

You did.

No. Seeing as I never said a word about slaves. You did. Are you having a stroke?

 

[PL198]

TIL fish = slaves

 

[Lucca]

I don't think you want to here his opinions on race either....

Oh I'm plenty familiar, I should really ignore PL.

No. Seeing as I never said a word about slaves. You did. Are you having a stroke?

"The man is traditionally the one who has to indicate value to the female, this is how it is in nature."

"The white man is better than the black man, this has come about naturally and it is up to us to assign them value."

 

[graviton]

I have no idea what "the red pill" is, but it looks like everyone in this thread needs to take a chill pill.

 

[PL198]

Oh I'm plenty familiar, I should really ignore PL.



"The man is traditionally the one who has to indicate value to the female, this is how it is in nature."

"The white man is better than the black man, this has come about naturally and it is up to us to assign them value."

Lol so obviously I didn't say the second quote. How you compare that to the first is beyond me. Are you sure you're not having a stroke?

 

[fancymylotus]

I just hate this "man as pursuer" nonsense. It's 2015, anyone can pursue - we don't have to keep adhering to this neanderthal nonsense.
I also hate your analogy for reasons previously stated

Ha. My super old school immigrant parents keep laying the "MEN NEED TO BE CHASING AFTER YOU" line on me.

 

[PL198]

Because a peacock dancing to get mates, that totally relates to slavery.

 

[PL198]

I have no idea what "the red pill" is, but it looks like everyone in this thread needs to take a chill pill.

You don't question a feminist or SJW or they come at you with a ferocity you've never experienced before.

 

[touchpause13]

You don't question a feminist or SJW or they come at you with a ferocity you've never experienced before.

 

[PL198]

Tp did I reference slavery?

 

[Lucca]

Lol so obviously I didn't say the second quote. How you compare that to the first is beyond me. Are you sure you're not having a stroke?

The implications are the same. The target is value-less without someone else assigning value to them externally. Do you understand now? Both statements commit a naturalistic fallacy: "This is the way it is, therefore this is the way it ought to be." Honestly I feel like 50% of my posts on this forum are trying to teach people how to read.

 

[PL198]

No. It's not the same. It's not even close to the same. Seriously, go to the ED

 

[touchpause13]

Tp did I reference slavery?

No - but that's not her argument, at least I don't think it is. I think her argument is that there is a small hop from your statement to acting like women are slaves. I also think she's matching your level of over the top rhetoric in an attempt to demonstrate how silly you sound.

 

[Lucca]

No. It's not the same. It's not even close to the same. Seriously, go to the ED

I guess you can't walk, let's try to crawl.

1) in nature B does X to A
"males assign value to females" - mating dances to attract partners, etc, in your terms
2) A needs X to be done to it by B to have X.
X = assign value
3) B can do X to A but A cannot do X to A or X to B (otherwise there is a contradiction with (1).
4) B already has X
Conclusion: In terms of X, B > A.

Replace B with "slave owner" or "male" and A with "slave" or "female" and you have exactly the same argument. What's the problem? Most (rational) people would argue that B is not > or < to A but = to A. You would then take issue with (1) or (2) because (1) does not include an "ought" statement so even if the conclusion is correct, it does not mean it should be practiced and (2) because you can argue that A already has X and B is committing an error in thinking they need to do X to A.

 

[Lucca]

No - but that's not her argument, at least I don't think it is. I think her argument is that there is a small hop from your statement to acting like women are slaves. I also think she's matching your level of over the top rhetoric in an attempt to demonstrate how silly you sound.

Guy btw, don't let the pic fool u lol/.

 

[touchpause13]

Guy btw, don't let the pic fool u lol/.

Apologies good sir

 

[Pacna]

Lol way to act like it's just me even though there are men and women calling out the sexist bs in thread.

While I totally agree, and I hate that it sounds like I'm defending him, I think it's important to point out that it's been demonstrated that when men do not apply benevolent sexism towards a woman, he is viewed by others (both men and women) as being more misogynistic than someone who does use benevolent sexism. This would look exactly like what your quote points out. PL is definitely coarse and insensitive. I'm not excusing that in any way. I don't recall a post of his I wasn't disappointed in.

Maintaining any kind of objectivity is hard when you're 'debating' like this, I know. During these discussions, I see a lot of people immediately get defensive and resort to countering black with white. Anger and ignorance are both best defeated by sympathy, though I know it's often hard to maintain compassion in the face of someone offending you. I find heroic stories to be most compelling when someone is wronged and shows kindness to the person who wronged them, like Mo'on Davis did just recently.

I'm not chiding you to discourage you, quite the contrary. I point this factoid out to encourage more positive discourse. We know people like PL will continue to be that way, but someone reading this thread might still be malleable. If they saw negativity and intellectual dishonesty on both sides, they'd just ignore what both of you say. But if they saw someone behaving in a way really deserving of respect (maintaining objectivity and compassion for their opposition), they would be so much more likely to join that camp.

 

[DoctorofDelight]

Honestly, 90% of women will not ask a man out and this is because they are too scared of rejection. They might approach the guy, and the guy might flirt back, but if the guy decides not to ask her out, it will go nowhere because the woman doesn't have the stones to be the one to take the next step. So really men almost always have to be initiating everything to start a relationship. That's where the "fishing" analogy comes from.

Also, a lot of girls I know that are frustrated in their dating life tell me "I'm the girl, I'm not supposed to ask a guy out." Well maybe you should. It's 2015. Welcome to equality among genders. You can't want to be equal to men and at the same time expect us to pull all the weight and pay for everything.

 

[Wordead]

While I totally agree, and I hate that it sounds like I'm defending him, I think it's important to point out that it's been demonstrated that when men do not apply benevolent sexism towards a woman, he is viewed by others (both men and women) as being more misogynistic than someone who does use benevolent sexism. This would look exactly like what your quote points out. PL is definitely coarse and insensitive. I'm not excusing that in any way. I don't recall a post of his I wasn't disappointed in.

Maintaining any kind of objectivity is hard when you're 'debating' like this, I know. During these discussions, I see a lot of people immediately get defensive and resort to countering black with white. Anger and ignorance are both best defeated by sympathy, though I know it's often hard to maintain compassion in the face of someone offending you. I find heroic stories to be most compelling when someone is wronged and shows kindness to the person who wronged them, like Mo'on Davis did just recently.

I'm not chiding you to discourage you, quite the contrary. I point this factoid out to encourage more positive discourse. We know people like PL will continue to be that way, but someone reading this thread might still be malleable. If they saw negativity and intellectual dishonesty on both sides, they'd just ignore what both of you say. But if they saw someone behaving in a way really deserving of respect (maintaining objectivity and compassion for their opposition), they would be so much more likely to join that camp.

You are way too even keeled to be on the internet. Go away, or become more of a dick please.

 

[Pacna]

You are way too even keeled to be on the internet. Go away, or become more of a dick please.

One time while I was riding on a plane, there was a huge amount of turbulence. The lady next to me looked more petrified with every bump, and I wanted to comfort her. I quickly racked my brain for something that would put her at ease, and I innocently picked what was putting me at ease, not realizing that she might not take it the same way. I leaned over to her and said with a smile "Don't worry, friend, nobody lives forever."

Can I stay now?

 

[wiggitywack12]

To bring this thread back on topic....I'll try to give OP some helpful advice

I've noticed a trend-- and this might be just at my school-- but it bothers me all the same.
I'm fortunate enough to attend a top 10 medical school; I worked so hard to get to where I am that I never really put much thought into dating. I figured I could simply make up for lost time while at medical school.

What I didn't account for is that the vast majority of guys in our class are taken (we're all about mid-20s). That itself is fine- what's more disconcerting, is that most of these guys have long-term relationships with women in much less rigorous professions (i.e. art, high-school teachers, nonprofit work etc.) No disrespect to these professions, and I'm sure they can be fairly challenging because I've worked in some of these fields, but I all in all I see very few of these guys dating women in medicine. From the handful that are, they rarely ever date girls in med school (i.e. there are some in pharm). There's a stark difference in our class with the guys being taken and the girls-- good-looking, clever, and talented-- being single.

In all honestly, it seems like being accomplished has actually HURT our chances, whereas being in medical school has seemingly helped the guys. How do we address this?

I read that you attend a top 5 medical school...congratulations on that! I also read that your class is very small (well, compared to mine) roughly 100 students...I didn't see if you stated what year you are currently in but if you're only an M1 I wouldn't be too worried. You could date someone in the year after you or an M2, M3-4, resident or even attending you simply haven't ran into yet.

Are there other professional schools in your city? You could date a dental, law or finance student/professional.


Being accomplished in the long run probably won't hurt your chances, all the female doctors I know are married (mostly to other physicians). In 1999, 44% of female doctors were married to male doctors and I'm sure the percentage is higher now as someone else stated the number of couples matching at residency time is only increasing.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10068390


As with any pursuit in life, you can only control what you can control and leave the rest. Basically, relationships aren't something you can successfully overthink (unless you want to end up parallel to a TRPer with paragraphs of theory and little to no success in practice). As long as you're being social and presenting yourself well, even with the coupled classmates (who knows? someone's cousin could be a successful hedge fundie lol) you're doing your job and the rest will have to fall together.