Dating in Med School for a Girl? Disturbing Trend?

[charmiedermie]

You exaggerate but I feel like there's a lot of things that are probably true about you IRL that you joke about on here (like you probably are obsessed with shoes)

There's what feminism originally started as and what a lot of women who call themselves "feminist" think it means. A lot of guys think women use feminism as an excuse to be promiscuous and unfeminine.

Please define for me what being feminine is in your world.

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[famoussquamous]

As can women judge men for their sexual puruits, right? Right?

Thankfully for us, your judgement of her sex life doesn't mean squat.

I never implied that it did. All I'm saying is that if you do certain things or live a certain lifestyle people are going to judge, so you may as well not care about it since you won't be able to stop it. The only reason the double standard exists anyway is because women don't shame man-****** the same way men shame promiscuous females.

 

[freemontie]

As can women judge men for their sexual puruits, right? Right?

Thankfully for us, your judgement of her sex life doesn't mean squat.

1) Yeah of course they can. They don't seem to mind players though. I know it sucks- a double standard. Sorry.
2) I can pretty much guarantee you that most men find those those things unattractive- not just me. That was the point.

 

[Psai]

He's right: surgery is not traditionally considered a feminine pursuit. Perhaps thats part of the draw for me; my parents made me feel I could do whatever I wanted and I was always drawn to less stereotypically feminine interests.

But that doesn't mean I'm not feminine. You can have a dirty, male dominated job (hello Ronda Rousey!) and still enjoy stilettos, long hair, pedicures and other more typically feminine things. I'll admit that I'm confused for a dermatologist or pediatrician more often than a surgeon and I may not be typical in my field, but I'm certainly not alone in being interested in both things.

Ok back to the endless unanswerable discussion of what each gender wants in a partner...LOL.

Well yeah, just by looking at any of your shoes i would think that you're a dermatologist too

 

[touchpause13]

So this thread just went full sexist then. Alrightyyyy

 

[famoussquamous]

1) Yeah of course they can. They don't seem to mind players though. I know it sucks- a double standard. Sorry.
2) I can pretty much guarantee you that most men find those those things unattractive- not just me. That was the point.

On the flipside, women that don't sleep around are "exalted" and put on a pedestal whereas men that don't sleep around are shamed by basically everyone, but you're less likely to hear people bring that up.

 

[fancymylotus]

1) Yeah of course they can. They don't seem to mind players though. I know it sucks- a double standard. Sorry.
2) I can pretty much guarantee you that most men find those those things unattractive- not just me. That was the point.

I can pretty much guarantee you that you're wrong

 

[charmiedermie]

I never implied that it did. All I'm saying is that if you do certain things or live a certain lifestyle people are going to judge, so you may as well not care about it since you won't be able to stop it. The only reason the double standard exists anyway is because women don't shame man-****** the same way men shame promiscuous females.

The reason the double standard exists is because it is fully accepted that men are sexual beings and women aren't. We're supposed to be ashamed for even wanting sex. But if we dont have sex with you whenever you want it we are prudes. We can never win with you.

 

[famoussquamous]

The reason the double standard exists is because it is fully accepted that men are sexual beings and women aren't. We're supposed to be ashamed for even wanting sex. But if we dont have sex with you whenever you want it we are prudes. We can never win with you.

Most men accept that women want/like sex, we're just a territorial sex and want a woman that's sexual with US, not with everyone else. Yes it's irrational but that's how a lot of us think.

Also there's a difference between someone that only sleeps with someone in whom they're in a serious relationship with and someone that has ONS every weekend. Most men are fine with the former but not the latter. That said a female like Lolo Jones that hasn't slept with anybody is more respected by men than a female that's slept with everybody.

 

[touchpause13]

Why on Earth should women have to conform to the irrational behavior of men? I'm my own person, **** what society wants I'm going to make my own decisions and choices based off of what I think is best for me. Almost like I'm a real person or something.

Most men accept that women want/like sex, we're just a territorial sex and want a woman that's sexual with US, not with everyone else. Yes it's irrational but that's how a lot of us think.

 

[touchpause13]

The reason the double standard exists is because it is fully accepted that men are sexual beings and women aren't. We're supposed to be ashamed for even wanting sex. But if we dont have sex with you whenever you want it we are prudes. We can never win with you.

 

[famoussquamous]

Why on Earth should women have to conform to the irrational behavior of men? I'm my own person, **** what society wants I'm going to make my own decisions and choices based off of what I think is best for me. Almost like I'm a real person or something.

Like I said, do whatever you feel like is the right thing to do. I'm just being real with y'all on how we think and that there's consequences to said actions. It's not like men don't have to conform to the ideals of women in our society.

Man or woman, I think we can all agree that society is ****ed

 

[touchpause13]

Like I said, do whatever you feel like is the right thing to do. I'm just being real with y'all on how we think. It's not like men don't have to conform to the ideals of women in our society.

Man or woman, I think we can all agree that society is ****ed

It's whatever because I already got mine, but I just wanna say I haven't had any problems finding people to hook up with or date. I'm not trying to be arrogant, I just wanted to point out that my views haven't hindered my ability to date in any way. So maybe a lot of guys do think like you - but I wouldn't have been interested in them anyways.

And I have no idea what you mean by the bolded

 

[fancymylotus]

It's whatever because I already got mine, but I just wanna say I haven't had any problems finding people to hook up with or date. I'm not trying to be arrogant, I just wanted to point out that my views haven't hindered my ability to date in any way. So maybe a lot of guys do think like you - but I wouldn't have been interested in them anyways.

And I have no idea what you mean by the bolded

Teepee, were both out of luck. Our successful careers make us admirable but not attractive, and we're never going to be able to find men who love us ;(

 

[touchpause13]

Teepee, were both out of luck. Our successful careers make us admirable but not attractive, and we're never going to be able to find men who love us ;(

lol I'll tell my husband

 

[famoussquamous]

It's whatever because I already got mine, but I just wanna say I haven't had any problems finding people to hook up with or date. I'm not trying to be arrogant, I just wanted to point out that my views haven't hindered my ability to date in any way. So maybe a lot of guys do think like you - but I wouldn't have been interested in them anyways.

And I have no idea what you mean by the bolded

Bolded: conforming to stereotypical ideal of heterogeneous male masculinity.

Also I never once said it's impossible for a woman to get a man if they have those ideals, and I'm happy you've found someone, good for you! I was just being honest about how a lot of men think.

 

[touchpause13]

Bolded: conforming to stereotypical ideal of heterogeneous male masculinity.

Also I never once said it's impossible for a woman to get a man if they have those ideals, and I'm happy you've found someone, good for you!

Lol okay, and you think women are responsible for that?
That's hilarious

 

[Kag01]

It's whatever because I already got mine, but I just wanna say I haven't had any problems finding people to hook up with or date. I'm not trying to be arrogant, I just wanted to point out that my views haven't hindered my ability to date in any way. So maybe a lot of guys do think like you - but I wouldn't have been interested in them anyways.

And I have no idea what you mean by the bolded

I actually find it hard to find someone to date. It takes me years to find someone that I'm really interested in. I'm not a med student yet but I graduated from college a few years ago.

I'm thinking I spent too much time in the engineering field (~99% guys) so that can explain part of my problem.

 

[famoussquamous]

Lol okay, and you think women are responsible for that?
That's hilarious

Women may not directly be responsible for that in terms of setting up what is "masculine" but they certainly reinforce it by selecting for "masculine" traits. Let's be real, women aren't out there choosing wusses or weak men unless they want to take him for all he's worth. Even many of the physical features that women find attractive are influenced by testosterone.

 

[touchpause13]

I actually find it hard to find someone to date. It takes me years to find someone that I'm really interested in. I'm not a med student yet but I graduated from college a few years ago.

I'm thinking I spent too much time in the engineering field (~99% guys) so that can explain part of my problem.

hahah Mr. TP is an engineer. ya'll are a great catch IMO

 

[touchpause13]

Women may not directly be responsible for that in terms of setting up what is "masculine" but they certainly reinforce it by selecting for "masculine" traits. Let's be real, women aren't out there choosing wusses or weak men unless they want to take him for all he's worth. Even many of the physical features that women find attractive are influenced by testosterone.

Is this actually your argument?

 

[freemontie]

Teepee, were both out of luck. Our successful careers make us admirable but not attractive, and we're never going to be able to find men who love us ;(

What's with the histrionics? In the end almost all of us has characteristics that most of the opposite gender finds less than ideal. Having them does mean it'll be harder to get the tall, handsome, at a similar age, and very successful type, though.

 

[touchpause13]

What's with the histrionics? In the end almost all of us has characteristics that most of the opposite gender finds less than ideal. Having them does mean it'll be harder to get the tall, handsome, at a similar age, and very successful type, though.

I think her point is that you are making a lot of really broad generalizations that don't hold true for all people.

 

[famoussquamous]

Is this actually your argument?

Do you actually have a response?

 

[wiggitywack12]

Women may not directly be responsible for that in terms of setting up what is "masculine" but they certainly reinforce it by selecting for "masculine" traits. Let's be real, women aren't out there choosing wusses or weak men unless they want to take him for all he's worth. Even many of the physical features that women find attractive are influenced by testosterone.

Keep this line handy for divorce court.

 

[famoussquamous]

I think her point is that you are making a lot of really broad generalizations that don't hold true for all people.

Making broad generalizations comes with the territory of describing what an entire gender finds desirable.

 

[touchpause13]

Making broad generalizations comes with the territory of describing what an entire gender finds desirable.

Which is why that's a really stupid thing to do in the first place.

 

[touchpause13]

Do you actually have a response?

Just that using the fact that a particular hormone helps develop secondary sexual characteristics doesn't have anything to do with anything. It's just a really silly argument.

 

[charmiedermie]

What's with the histrionics? In the end almost all of us has characteristics that most of the opposite gender finds less than ideal. Having them does mean it'll be harder to get the tall, handsome, at a similar age, and very successful type, though.

Where was she being histrionic? Do you not understand joking or sarcasm? Or do u not know what the word histrionic means?

 

[famoussquamous]

Just that using the fact that a particular hormone helps develop secondary sexual characteristics doesn't have anything to do with anything. It's just a really silly argument.

It has more to do with everything than you want to give it credit for

http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/668417?origin=JSTOR-HTMLeTOCAlert
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/273/1598/2169.short
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0013585
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090513813000275
http://ac.els-cdn.com/S109051380400...t=1427667408_a4dc02b1d49708906167aaa037ca2a78
http://ac.els-cdn.com/S009130221300...t=1427667437_e7424f666576d3f326f8a140133cb7f3


I could go on but you get the point. Countless studies link testosterone levels with masculine behavior and features.

 

[touchpause13]

It has more to do with everything than you want to give it credit for

http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/668417?origin=JSTOR-HTMLeTOCAlert
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/273/1598/2169.short
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0013585
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090513813000275
http://ac.els-cdn.com/S109051380400...t=1427667408_a4dc02b1d49708906167aaa037ca2a78
http://ac.els-cdn.com/S009130221300...t=1427667437_e7424f666576d3f326f8a140133cb7f3


I could go on but you get the point. Countless studies link testosterone levels with masculine behavior and features.

I know what testosterone does. I just finished repro physiology. That doesn't have a damn thing to do with your argument that women are responsible for or contribute to dominant ideals about masculinity in our culture

 

[freemontie]

Where was she being histrionic? Do you not understand joking or sarcasm? Or do u not know what the word histrionic means?

Yes?...histrionic and sarcastic are not mutually exclusive. Rather mocking over the top sarcasm is often histrionic.

 

[famoussquamous]

I know what testosterone does. I just finished repro physiology. That doesn't have a damn thing to do with your argument that women are responsible for dominant ideals about masculinity in our culture

Did you bother looking at some of the studies (lol) that showed how women selected for mates those with higher testosterone levels? Or that men with higher testosterone levels were found to be much more attractive to females than those with lower levels, or how testosterone levels correlate with "masculine" features, or how women crave what society deems as "manly men", especially when they're ovulating?

Now if women find these features attractive and date men with those features, it reinforces that trait as being desirable. Thus, men conform to the heterogeneous ideal of masculinity in order to get chose. I feel like what I'm saying is common sense but I guess not.

 

[PL198]

As can women judge men for their sexual puruits, right? Right?

Thankfully for us, your judgement of her sex life doesn't mean squat.

of course, why wouldn't they?

 

[touchpause13]

Did you bother looking at some of the studies (lol) that showed how women selected for mates those with higher testosterone levels. Or that men with higher testosterone levels were found to be much more attractive to females than those with lower levels, or how testosterone levels correlate with "masculine" features, or how women crave what society deems as "manly men"?

Now if women find these features attractive and date men with those features, it reinforces that trait as being desirable. Thus, men conform to the heterogeneous ideal of masculinity in order to get chose. I feel like what I'm saying is common sense but I guess not.

I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. Or maybe you don't understand what heterogeneous masculinity means. I assuming you were talking about hegemonic masculinity - the dominant form of masculinity in this country which involves lots of ugly stereotypes that puts guys in boxes such as men shouldn't be emotional, shouldn't stay home with their kids, shouldn't work in female dominated professions such as teaching or nursing, etc etc. These things have nothing to do with testosterone. These are gender roles and the problem is that they assign non-gendered traits (nurturing, ambitious, driven, career focused, child focused, etc) with genders therefore putting people in boxes and making it more difficult for people to be authentic to themselves because if they don't fit into whatever particular box they will have negative social consequences. That isn't biological, it's societal, so I don't understand the fascination with testosterone - it literally has nothing to do with anything we are talking about here.

 

[famoussquamous]

of course, why wouldn't they?

I think part of it is that women slut-shame harder than most men in my experience. For whatever reason women seem to shame women that sleep around more than men shame men that sleep around.

 

[touchpause13]

that's because slut shaming isn't really a thing for men. at least not nearly at the same level. the whole point is that it's a double standard, men aren't shamed for being sexual in the same way that women are

I think part of it is that women slut-shame harder than most men in my experience. For whatever reason women seem to shame women that sleep around more than men shame men that sleep around.

 

[famoussquamous]

I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. Or maybe you don't understand what heterogeneous masculinity means. I assuming you were talking about hegemonic masculinity - the dominant form of masculinity in this country which involves lots of ugly stereotypes that puts guys in boxes such as men shouldn't be emotional, shouldn't stay home with their kids, shouldn't work in female dominated professions such as teaching or nursing, etc etc. These things have nothing to do with testosterone. These are gender roles and the problem is that they assign non-gendered traits (nurturing, ambitious, driven, career focused, child focused, etc) with genders therefore putting people in boxes and making it more difficult for people to be authentic to themselves because if they don't fit into whatever particular box they will have negative social consequences. That isn't biological, it's societal, so I don't understand the fascination with testosterone - it literally has nothing to do with anything we are talking about here.

Really, you think it "literally" has nothing to do with anything being talked about here?

I'm saying the social idea of what a "male" is is associated with men with naturally high testosterone levels. I've also said that those "ugly" boxes that men are put in are the types of standards men are supposed to conform to as those standards are deemed the most ideal for attracting someone, since you got upset about women having to conform to the ideas of society and how men don't have any standards they're held to.

 

[famoussquamous]

that's because slut shaming isn't really a thing for men. at least not nearly at the same level. the whole point is that it's a double standard, men aren't shamed for being sexual in the same way that women are

Men are also held to double standards as well (not being emotional, being the initiator in asking a female out/facing rejection, paying for dates, etc). Also the "slut shaming" works in reverse for a male in that a guy that isn't getting any is mocked and ridiculed by both men and women.

 

[touchpause13]

Really, you think it "literally" has nothing to do with anything being talked about here?

I'm saying the social idea of what a "male" is is associated with men with naturally high testosterone levels. I've also said that those "ugly" boxes that men are put in are the types of standards men are supposed to conform to as those standards are deemed the most ideal for attracting someone, since you got upset about women having to conform to the ideas of society and how men don't have any standards they're held to.

Of course men have standards that they are held to - they just aren't held to them by women. We don't have that kind of power, and I'm not sure why you think that we do. The ideas of society have been dictated by men for a long long time.
Yes I think it literally has nothing to do with what's being talked about here

 

[touchpause13]

Also the "slut shaming" works in reverse for a male in that a guy that isn't getting any is mocked and ridiculed by both men and women.

That wouldn't be slut shaming. That's not what slut shaming means.

 

[famoussquamous]

Of course men have standards that they are held to - they just aren't held to them by women. We don't have that kind of power, and I'm not sure why you think that we do. The ideas of society have been dictated by men for a long long time.

All I've said is that women reinforce these ideas by picking for these traits. If women got together and said "we don't find these 'masculine' traits attractive" and chose to be with more 'feminine' men, men would have wised up and changed their tactics. It works both ways.

 

[PL198]

I think part of it is that women slut-shame harder than most men in my experience. For whatever reason women seem to shame women that sleep around more than men shame men that sleep around.

a master key that opens all locks vs a lock that is opened by all keys.

women are the barriers to sex, thus when a man has sex with multiple women, his value is increased. additionally, when a woman has sex with multiple men, her value is lowered, for the same reason.

not rocket science at all.

 

[famoussquamous]

That wouldn't be slut shaming. That's not what slut shaming means.

Virgin shaming, other end of the spectrum.

A virgin female is considered a prize by many men and a virgin male is considered defective and undesirable. But again, you don't hear men complaining about it.

 

[PL198]

let's compare to peacocks. so a male peacock shows off his stuff and if thats good enough for the female peacock, she's like "alright lets do this "

now imagine a male peacock with a really cool pattern, who tons of female peacocks approved of. obviously that validates him since his pattern is sweet.

now imagine a female peacock who gets with every dude. clearly her standards aren't that high, because not every peacock has a sick pattern. thus her value is lowered.

 

[touchpause13]

a master key that opens all locks vs a lock that is opened by all keys.

women are the barriers to sex, thus when a man has sex with multiple women, his value is increased. additionally, when a woman has sex with multiple men, her value is lowered, for the same reason.

not rocket science at all.

Except we aren't locks and keys, we are human beings.

Virgin shaming, other end of the spectrum.

A virgin female is considered a prize by many men and a virgin male is considered defective and undesirable. But again, you don't hear men complaining about it.

You don't hear men complaining about not getting laid??? what planet do you live on?

 

[famoussquamous]

a master key that opens all locks vs a lock that is opened by all keys.

women are the barriers to sex, thus when a man has sex with multiple women, his value is increased. additionally, when a woman has sex with multiple men, her value is lowered, for the same reason.

not rocket science at all.

Ah, the old master key analogy.

I don't agree with it for that reason, but it is true that women do control the sexual marketplace (it's why female porn stars are paid more than their male counterparts, it's why female sex workers in general make a lot more than men unless those male sex workers service other men, and why it's easier for a female to acquire a higher body count than it is for her male equivalent)

 

[touchpause13]

let's compare to peacocks. so a male peacock shows off his stuff and if thats good enough for the female peacock, she's like "alright lets do this "

now imagine a male peacock with a really cool pattern, who tons of female peacocks approved of. obviously that validates him since his pattern is sweet.

now imagine a female peacock who gets with every dude. clearly her standards aren't that high, because not every peacock has a sick pattern. thus her value is lowered.

Or her value has nothing to do with her sexual behavior. I don't understand this need to connect the value of a human being with their genitalia. It's one facet of our lives, not an end all be all of our worth an humans, that's just gross.

 

[famoussquamous]

You don't hear men complaining about not getting laid??? what planet do you live on?

You don't hear virgin men complaining about how they're looked down upon. It has nothing to do with the "he's a nerd" thing either, even someone like Tim Tebow was mocked and ridiculed for choosing not to have sex with women and his sexuality was constantly under attack.

 

[touchpause13]

Ah, the old master key analogy.

I don't agree with it for that reason, but it is true that women do control the sexual marketplace (it's why female porn stars are paid more than their male counterparts, it's why female sex workers in general make a lot more than men unless those male sex workers service other men, and why it's easier for a female to acquire a higher body count than it is for her male equivalent)

that's because higher risk = higher reward.