CPJE board exam breached?

[BidingMyTime]

Pharmacists making 11-14k a month? Dang, I need a new job

Yeah, but the catch is you have to move to CA to do so....and they aren't licensing new pharmacists this month.

You think people can perfectly recreate all 90 questions?

This doesn’t seem that hard to me. Just create thousands of test questions that are randomly picked for each exam. By the time people memorized enough answers to pass the exam they will actually have mastered the material.

This makes sense to me.




My question is, why did CA even bother to go to the NAPLEX, when they were just going to make their law exam a minor version of their old state specific CABPLEX or whatever it was called. Of course, it's all about keeping out excessive numbers of outsiders from moving into their state, always has been. I just don't know why they aren't upfront about it these days.

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[gwarm01]

More coverage in the news. People unironically wear bowties?

Outrage among new pharmacists after cheating scandal upends licensing exam results

After more than 100 questions leaked online, the California pharmacy board will require 1,400 people to retake the test.

www.latimes.com

There are other states, too. You can study for any MPJE in 1-2 days. Sheesh

I've seen docs in bowties on rounds who want to be conscious of infection control issues, but feel the need to still dress professionally. It was a nice juxtaposition next to the intensivist who wore a jersey and jeans.

 

[zelman]

Yeah, but the catch is you have to move to CA to do so....and they aren't licensing new pharmacists this month.



This makes sense to me.




My question is, why did CA even bother to go to the NAPLEX, when they were just going to make their law exam a minor version of their old state specific CABPLEX or whatever it was called. Of course, it's all about keeping out excessive numbers of outsiders from moving into their state, always has been. I just don't know why they aren't upfront about it these days.

I believed they changed under pressure from the NABP to increase standardization and have a pathway to reciprocity in/out that would only require one test.

 

[confettiflyer]

Came across more info yesterday, I now distinctly believe the accused resident was improperly targeted by Prometric staff and her case screwed up by BOP. I think she will likely prevail on appeal.

That said, the exam was definitely compromised, but this wasn’t it.

But really none of this makes sense for the accused...I remember a bevy of cameras at the Prometric site. Almost pretty sure there was one in my face when I sat for CPJE, or at least one trained on me.


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[Pharmacy is a Scam]

Wasn’t a protest planned during CSHP Seminar? What ever happened with it?

 

[asiankid]

Wasn’t a protest planned during CSHP Seminar? What ever happened with it?

It was cancelled because of this.

 

[RxEvileye]

New editorial shared by CA BOP reads like they mostly wrote it:

PD Editorial: Patient safety is key in fallout of pharmacy cheating scandal

The state Board of Pharmacy invalidated the test scores of all 1,400 pharmacists who took the test since July after learning that exam questions were leaked online.

www.pressdemocrat.com

 

[Amicable Angora]

Can also mandate passing CPJE every 2-3 years as a condition of license renewal as the BOP apparently can do whatever the **** they want on this matter.

It'll never happen due to limited resources (maybe possibly "randomly" assign licensees to retake CPJE) and inability to curb cheating. Hey if you did those 30 CE in 2 hrs, doing CPJE without any prep should be cake.

I wouldn’t wish on anyone to have to continually retake the law exam.

 

[RxEvileye]

People retaking invalidated CPJE have to submit this “Examination Security Acknowledgement” with interesting examples of what is considered cheating:

https://www.pharmacy.ca.gov/forms/17a76.pdf

source:

Statements regarding CPJE - California State Board of Pharmacy

www.pharmacy.ca.gov

 

[Sine Cura]

Examples of compromising a licensing examination include removing examination materials from a test site without authorization; aiding by any means the reproduction of any portion of the actual examination; paying or using professional or paid examination takers to reconstruct any portion of the examination; and selling, distributing, buying, receiving or having unauthorized possession of any portion of a future, current or previously administered licensing examination. For example, an individual who memorizes a test item with or without intent to provide this information to the provider of a review course is compromising the exam.

California law provides that no person shall violate the security of a licensing examination. Examples include impersonating someone, attempting to impersonate someone, or soliciting the impersonation of someone. Using notes and looking at another candidate’s examination materials are two examples of dishonest conduct. Any form of dishonest conduct or cheating, including using prohibited aids, giving or receiving assistance, or communicating with others, may result in the voiding of your examination results and/or dismissal from the examination site.

"Interesting examples"?

How about don't cheat.

 

[RxEvileye]

"Interesting examples"?

How about don't cheat.

Yeah, not advocating for cheating. I called them interesting because of their specificity and how common the rumors about how it happened are, especially in CA.

The example of memorizing for a provider of a review course is what happened to the NAPLEX and Georgia MPJE in the past.

 

[zelman]

Yeah, not advocating for cheating. I called them interesting because of their specificity and how common the rumors about how it happened are, especially in CA.

The example of memorizing for a provider of a review course is what happened to the NAPLEX and Georgia MPJE in the past.

That’s not an example of cheating. It’s an example of compromising the exam. Obviously “don’t cheat” was not sufficiently comprehensive.

 

[RxEvileye]

I think we could be discussing the examples/information in the letter and hundreds of people struggling with the board’s decisions right now instead of grammar or word definitions... but my colloquial use of “cheating” could reasonably be the result of “compromising the exam” and does not split hairs about whether the person memorizing or using the information is a cheater. The whole thing has been called a “cheating scandal”.

Next time I could just say the whole thing is interesting then... Or not post on SDN if I will just be quoted and blasted over semantics or assumed to be excusing cheaters.

Both CPhA and CSHP have voiced their disagreement with the CA BOP’s handling of this. Even those not directly affected, like myself, have criticized and been affected by the BOP’s inefficiencies and mismanagement in the past. “How about don’t cheat” is condescending.

 

[confettiflyer]

"Interesting examples"?

How about don't cheat.

This is a dumb post.


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[confettiflyer]

I think we could be discussing the examples/information in the letter and hundreds of people struggling with the board’s decisions right now instead of grammar or word definitions... but my colloquial use of “cheating” could reasonably be the result of “compromising the exam” and does not split hairs about whether the person memorizing or using the information is a cheater. The whole thing has been called a “cheating scandal”.

Next time I could just say the whole thing is interesting then... Or not post on SDN if I will just be quoted and blasted over semantics or assumed to be excusing cheaters.

Both CPhA and CSHP have voiced their disagreement with the CA BOP’s handling of this. Even those not directly affected, like myself, have criticized and been affected by the BOP’s inefficiencies and mismanagement in the past. “How about don’t cheat” is condescending.

What’s interesting is “memorizing” a question, whether or not you actually (or intend) disclose it to anyone, is considered cheating.

Which is the dumbest fcking thing I have ever heard.

CA BOP reached a new low here. It’s literally a thoughtcrime.

Yeah, that question you remember for being so stupid? GUILTY!


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[confettiflyer]

The example of memorizing for a provider of a review course is what happened to the NAPLEX and Georgia MPJE in the past.

See that’s reasonable...but it’s cheating if you memorize without disclosing to anyone. That’s how dumb it all is.



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[BMBiology]

What’s interesting is “memorizing” a question, whether or not you actually (or intend) disclose it to anyone, is considered cheating.

Which is the dumbest fcking thing I have ever heard.

CA BOP reached a new low here. It’s literally a thoughtcrime.

Yeah, that question you remember for being so stupid? GUILTY!


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I think it goes without saying...why would anyone try to memorize a question if he/she not planning to share it?

 

[owlegrad]

lol I think you might be taking them a bit too literally. How would they even know if someone memorized test questions if said people never disclose those questions to anyone else?

Unbad use of thought crime though.

 

[confettiflyer]

I think it goes without saying...why would anyone try to memorize a question if he/she not planning to share it?

Here’s a better example...It’s like making the remembering of your ex-girlfriend’s (or ex-boyfriend’s) private body parts illegal once you break up.

Like you probably had no intent to share the detailed description of their genitalia, but you are therefore marked guilty anyway.

Even better...say you use that image in your head with your current partner. You are GUILTY!

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[asiankid]

Some crazy stuff

 

[confettiflyer]

If the above is true, they’re so goddamn pathetic. It’s sad.

I get it, lots of civil servants hate their job. They’re just waiting for that sweet sweet guaranteed pension before doing something else... that’s all they’re working for.

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[BMBiology]

Here’s a better example...It’s like making the remembering of your ex-girlfriend’s (or ex-boyfriend’s) private body parts illegal once you break up.

Like you probably had no intent to share the detailed description of their genitalia, but you are therefore marked guilty anyway.

Even better...say you use that image in your head with your current partner. You are GUILTY!

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OK...You are comparing memorizing a test question vs remembering your ex girlfriend’s genitalia. Obviously one is more fun than the other

 

[RxEvileye]

Some crazy stuff

View attachment 285107

Thanks for posting, you reminded me of this:

 

[confettiflyer]

OK...You are comparing memorizing a test question vs remembering your ex girlfriend’s genitalia. Obviously one is more fun than the other

Lol, glad you enjoyed my example, but my legal argument is that it’s absurd requiring someone to forget something that they’ve seen. I mean, make it a crime to disseminate, but the fact that it’s in your head doesn’t make it a crime.

Imagine if it’s illegal to think about murdering someone with no actions or intent...by CA BOP standard, you’re GUILTY!

Hey, even more relevant, say you’re not allowed to memorize the location of your C2 drugs in the cabinet....juuuust in case you’re thinking about stealing them. What? You remembered where the vials are? GUILTY!

Say you have to do CE every year to maintain your license. Say it’s the same law module that is published by BOP and the questions never change. What? You kind of remember some of the answers from last year? GUILTY!


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[VA77]

I have never heard of a BoP EVER doing anything like this. Most only have the resources to check if the pharmacies are operating legally. If they are really doing this then it is an all time new. What assurances have the BoP given test takers that if they pass in Nov that their scores will be honored? They could pull the same stunt.

 

[HandsomeVampire]

I thought they are guilty if they disclose information on what they remember from the exam.
They were prompted prior to examination that such information should not be leaked outside.
But that would be in any academic setting with examinations without access to personal notes (closed book).
Just like working in any corporation with policy and procedures that you are to not share proprietary information to the public or anyone that shouldn't know of such information.

It's pretty difficult to tell someone to forget the information if they finished an exam, break up in a relationship, quit their job. They could or could not forget it but no way we can definitely know.

 

[Sine Cura]

I think we could be discussing the examples/information in the letter and hundreds of people struggling with the board’s decisions right now instead of grammar or word definitions... but my colloquial use of “cheating” could reasonably be the result of “compromising the exam” and does not split hairs about whether the person memorizing or using the information is a cheater. The whole thing has been called a “cheating scandal”.

Next time I could just say the whole thing is interesting then... Or not post on SDN if I will just be quoted and blasted over semantics or assumed to be excusing cheaters.

Both CPhA and CSHP have voiced their disagreement with the CA BOP’s handling of this. Even those not directly affected, like myself, have criticized and been affected by the BOP’s inefficiencies and mismanagement in the past. “How about don’t cheat” is condescending.

K.

The only remotely "interesting" statement is about something that the BOP can never take action against if the test taker isn't stupid enough to disclose that information, yet that's what people are focusing on. The BOP doesn't have precogs in their employ. I don't see anyone discussing the the plight of those affected, just piling on how stupid the BOP is.

Sending BOP investigators out to interrogate test takers sounds pretty fake TBH unless they have a good reason to target those specific test-takers.

 

[confettiflyer]

It's pretty difficult to tell someone to forget the information if they finished an exam, break up in a relationship, quit their job. They could or could not forget it but no way we can definitely know.

Exactly why I’m harping on this point. That letter put out by BOP shows an extremely pathetic lack of sophistication with respect to the law and how laws actually work.

Like a 1L from some crappy for profit school could have written a better set of examples.

To require prospective pharmacists to sign this legal garbage is pitiful.


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[Sine Cura]

IS BPC 4301 "legal garbage"?

Next

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I think it goes without saying...why would anyone try to memorize a question if he/she not planning to share it?

What if you accidentally memorize things? DEFPOTEC. That's the 20/20 line on most of those mass produced eye exam charts. I accidentally memorized that when I was 16 at the optometrist. I have no idea why. I can't unforget it. Random **** like that sticks into my brain and I can't forget it. I have a sporadic, involuntary photographic memory.

So if I took this test and that crazy **** happens, will I have committed a crime somehow?

 

[confettiflyer]

IS BPC 4301 "legal garbage"?

Next

BOP’s interpretation of it is.

Nice try with “next” it didn’t work out.


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[Sine Cura]

The BOP can pretty much stack the deck do anything they want against a licensee with BPC 4301 (some examples which I and others have pointed out from BOP decisions in the past, such as sending out "untimely" refill authorizations, selling fake clothing, etc etc) so your teeth-gnashing about the stupidity of it all is completely irrelevant

Next

 

[confettiflyer]

The BOP can pretty much stack the deck do anything they want against a licensee with BPC 4301 (some examples which I and others have pointed out from BOP decisions in the past, such as sending out "untimely" refill authorizations, selling fake clothing, etc etc) so your teeth-gnashing about the stupidity of it all is completely irrelevant

Next

Clearly, as a BOP fanboy, you’re not grasping the higher level concept that a BOP requiring someone to agree to an unprovable legal standard is garbage. Your examples about refill auths and clothing are irrelevant

I’ll let you catch up mentally and I’ll reply in a week.

 

[BidingMyTime]

What if you accidentally memorize things? DEFPOTEC. That's the 20/20 line on most of those mass produced eye exam charts. I accidentally memorized that when I was 16 at the optometrist. I have no idea why. I can't unforget it. Random **** like that sticks into my brain and I can't forget it. I have a sporadic, involuntary photographic memory.

So if I took this test and that crazy **** happens, will I have committed a crime somehow?

ha! I never knew that! I will never be able to unforget this either!

 

[BMBiology]

What if you accidentally memorize things? DEFPOTEC. That's the 20/20 line on most of those mass produced eye exam charts. I accidentally memorized that when I was 16 at the optometrist. I have no idea why. I can't unforget it. Random **** like that sticks into my brain and I can't forget it. I have a sporadic, involuntary photographic memory.

So if I took this test and that crazy **** happens, will I have committed a crime somehow?

The BOP is just lowering the bar for a conviction. Lets say they found actual exam questions you have written down on your laptop. Now, they gotta prove you tried to send them to other people which is difficult to prove.

 

[confettiflyer]

The BOP is just lowering the bar for a conviction. Lets say they found actual exam questions you have written down on your laptop. Now, they gotta prove you tried to send them to other people which is difficult to prove.

lol BOP couldn’t even protect its own systems against breach (see previous examples by lord999), what makes you think they’d be able to extract evidence from an encrypted laptop

Plus memorizing questions and transcribing them onto paper outside the test center is definitely cheating.


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[owlegrad]

lol BOP couldn’t even protect its own systems against breach (see previous examples by lord999), what makes you think they’d be able to extract evidence from an encrypted laptop

Plus memorizing questions and transcribing them onto paper outside the test center is definitely cheating.


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How can anything you do after taking the test be considered cheating?

 

[lord999]

I honestly think that the exam should have a warning along the lines of:

"
No set of rules can encompass the entirety of all the procedures of good conduct with respect to the exam. Candidates are asked to act according to the high professional standards that we expect all of our pharmacist colleagues to have when working with the licensing process, each other, and most importantly of all, our patients. We expect you as the candidate to act at or above those standards, to contact us regarding any questions with respect to exam administration or logistics questions, and to exercise good professional judgment in all professional behavior toward the licensing process.
"

I hate to write legalistic rule-by-rule issues for this exam. This is the $*(#ing professional licensing exam, if we have such suspicions on the candidates' conduct, they should not be examined at all. And those who cause an issue with this process should be banned from the profession. It really doesn't need to be said, but for the era we practice in now...

 

[confettiflyer]

How can anything you do after taking the test be considered cheating?

It would be violating exam integrity, memorizing the questions and transcribing it outside of the sterile testing site is a technical compromise of exam.

Cheating was easier to type ::


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[owlegrad]

It would be violating exam integrity, memorizing the questions and transcribing it outside of the sterile testing site is a technical compromise of exam.

Cheating was easier to type ::


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My bad...I was thinking of zelman.

 

[tifferzzz]

Hi there. I am an out-of-state applicant who got approval to sit for the CPJE just days before the cheating scandal. It says on the PSI website that my eligibility to sit for the exam has expired as of Oct 16, 2019. I assume that it has to do with the cheating issues, but I thought that my eligibility is supposed to be good for a year. Do applicants who have not taken the exam but received eligibility have to completely reapply (and repay) to sit the exam? I have tried calling the CA BoP but I just get a voicemail that is full. Any info would be very helpful!

 

[BMBiology]

BOP will be releasing scores soon. I wonder what is the pass rate?

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

I wonder if they actually rewrote the questions or simply picked questions that weren’t “compromised” from their test bank to put on the exam.

 

[gwarm01]

Lol remember these are the same people that will actually call a doctor about diff doxycycline salts hahahah


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Meanwhile the doctor just clicked the first thing that came up when they typed doxy and doesn't know or care about different salt forms.

Seriously, far too many of our esteemed colleagues think like robots.

 

[Saiyo]

Seriously, far too many of our esteemed colleagues think like robots.

According to one of my classmates. IT'S THE LAW.

Well, she's not wrong (probably, I never read the actual rules)

 

[gwarm01]

According to one of my classmates. IT'S THE LAW.

Well, she's not wrong (probably, I never read the actual rules)

Clearly they didn't watch enough medical dramas where the hero doctors stretch the rules to do the right thing. I'm not sure why I'm writing this sarcastically, as I often did this exact thing when working in patient care.

 

[Sine Cura]

Clearly, as a BOP fanboy, you’re not grasping the higher level concept that a BOP requiring someone to agree to an unprovable legal standard is garbage. Your examples about refill auths and clothing are irrelevant

I’ll let you catch up mentally and I’ll reply in a week.

Mega butt-hurt much.

 

[confettiflyer]

Mega butt-hurt much.

What were we talking about again?


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[BidingMyTime]

What were we talking about again?
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Something about having to call the doctor to change Symbicort to albuterol, or maybe it was about changing Ventolin to albuterol PO? I lost track too.....I think the takeaway was act now & apologize later?

 

[Sine Cura]

What were we talking about again?


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