CPJE board exam breached?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
I think this is the same as the link posted, but it has a ton of transcribed stuff if you don’t want to watch a video.



I stopped at $350k loan and “this is my third time taking it” o_O


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

If it's her third time, would she have passed?

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Obviously the California BOP is a joke when it comes to the licensing process (offering only two test dates for free retakes? Yep still a joke) but so are some of these students with bad grammar and lack of introspection, which makes sense since they went to pharmacy school.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Obviously the California BOP is a joke when it comes to the licensing process (offering only two test dates for free retakes? Yep still a joke) but so are some of these students with bad grammar and lack of introspection, which makes sense since they went to pharmacy school.

I lost all respect for BOP when they cancelled the outside intern experience requirement for licensing when the deans of new schools said that their student could not find intern jobs
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Members don't see this ad :)
I’m a specialist but I never made less than $68/hr in LA, from full time specialist gigs or per diem staffing.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

what’s a specialist?
I was referring to retail gigs at independent pharmacies. Also, a lot of places start of new grads much lower now
 
So those students will have to travel to God knows where to take the next test because BoP only gives them 2 days?
 
So those students will have to travel to God knows where to take the next test because BoP only gives them 2 days?
It’s only 1 day, 11/16. 11/17 is a Sunday which all PSI centers are closed on Sunday. They probably going to pay the PSI company money under the table to open them on Sunday.

727BB5CF-0558-45F0-88AE-64C9D9EA1EBA.jpeg
 
News article from NBCLA:

News article from ABC10:

News article from LA Times (Very detail of the situation):
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I lost all respect for BOP when they cancelled the outside intern experience requirement for licensing when the deans of new schools said that their student could not find intern jobs
I would have to agree with you completely. Starting in 2016, the California Board of Pharmacy no longer required 1500 intern hours for pharmacist licensure. It really is a shame.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: 1 user
I would have to agree with you completely. Starting in 2016, the California Board of Pharmacy no longer required 1500 intern hours for pharmacist licensure. It really is a shame.

I had a friend who had to work 2-3 months as an intern after graduation to get all her hours in. The next year, no one had to work anything. She was pissed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I would have to agree with you completely. Starting in 2016, the California Board of Pharmacy no longer required 1500 intern hours for pharmacist licensure. It really is a shame.

I swear it was earlier than that. Or maybe it was the change from “1500 hours outside of rotations” to “1500 hours, can be satisfied by rotations”

I can’t be sure because I remember turning in the form signed by my employer and didn’t dig deeper into the requirement.


Sent from my iPad using SDN
 
Members don't see this ad :)
So, only 100 CPJE questions got contaminated. The board needs to create an adaptive exam with thousands of possible questions available.

There is no way to stop cheating but there are ways to minimize the effect of cheating.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
what’s a specialist?
I was referring to retail gigs at independent pharmacies. Also, a lot of places start of new grads much lower now

Specialist positions for me are: crit care, EM, onc, peds (PICU/NICU), etc...

But even the generalist positions (inpt staffing with Kaiser, for example) is in close parity with the above positions. Mostly because at many hospitals, clin specs can and do float to other positions so it’s usually easier to just have the same pay scale.

No idea what so cal retail pays these days, but I remember it starting at ~$55/hr in 2008 w/ CVS


Sent from my iPad using SDN
 
I feel bad saying this, but if anyone out there is California licensed and looking for a job, this is probably the best time to look.

Even then, if you can’t get a job now...I’ll let you finish that thought.


Sent from my iPad using SDN
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
So, only 100 CPJE questions got contaminated. The board needs to create an adaptive exam with thousands of possible questions available.

There is no way to stop cheating but there are ways to minimize the effect of cheating.
When an entire fraternity is in cahoots with the cheating then practically speaking no matter how big the test bank is, test questions will be captured and disseminated.

For example, if the test bank is 1000 questions large and 20 students from the same frat take the test, each getting the same 50% of questions on a 90 question test, then they will be able to collect 1x90 + 19x45 = 945/1000 (94.5%) of all the exam questions in one cycle assuming the questions are mutually exclusive. If the questions are not mutually exclusive and only 10% of test questions are different from test to test, then it would be even easier to identify the questions that are “for sure” going to appear on the exam. Multiply that by a few cycles of classes (since frats recycle their material which is the premise of how this thing came about to begin with) and you’d have virtually 100% of all the possible board exam questions at your disposal. The absolute only way to prevent cheating is to have a test bank of 10,000 NEW questions each year but ain’t nobody got the time to write those so here we are.
 
When an entire fraternity is in cahoots with the cheating then practically speaking no matter how big the test bank is, test questions will be captured and disseminated.

For example, if the test bank is 1000 questions large and 20 students from the same frat take the test, each getting the same 50% of questions on a 90 question test, then they will be able to collect 1x90 + 19x45 = 945/1000 (94.5%) of all the exam questions in one cycle assuming the questions are mutually exclusive. If the questions are not mutually exclusive and only 10% of test questions are different from test to test, then it would be even easier to identify the questions that are “for sure” going to appear on the exam. Multiply that by a few cycles of classes (since frats recycle their material which is the premise of how this thing came about to begin with) and you’d have virtually 100% of all the possible board exam questions at your disposal. The absolute only way to prevent cheating is to have a test bank of 10,000 NEW questions each year but ain’t nobody got the time to write those so here we are.

How expensive it is to write questions? How much is the board charging each student to take the exam? I don’t care if they need to write 5000 or 10,000 questions. Get it done.

I noticed there is a lot of cheating in pharmacy school. I know people who don’t need to attend lectures and they would get the mean on the exam because they already have the exam. It is so widespread that people don’t even consider it cheating anymore. But, it is the professors fault for using the same damn question over and over again. I can’t believe people are paying 50 k/year in tuition and their school is too lazy to write new exam questions...not even change the wording.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
When an entire fraternity is in cahoots with the cheating then practically speaking no matter how big the test bank is, test questions will be captured and disseminated.

For example, if the test bank is 1000 questions large and 20 students from the same frat take the test, each getting the same 50% of questions on a 90 question test, then they will be able to collect 1x90 + 19x45 = 945/1000 (94.5%) of all the exam questions in one cycle assuming the questions are mutually exclusive. If the questions are not mutually exclusive and only 10% of test questions are different from test to test, then it would be even easier to identify the questions that are “for sure” going to appear on the exam. Multiply that by a few cycles of classes (since frats recycle their material which is the premise of how this thing came about to begin with) and you’d have virtually 100% of all the possible board exam questions at your disposal. The absolute only way to prevent cheating is to have a test bank of 10,000 NEW questions each year but ain’t nobody got the time to write those so here we are.

You think people can perfectly recreate all 90 questions?

This doesn’t seem that hard to me. Just create thousands of test questions that are randomly picked for each exam. By the time people memorized enough answers to pass the exam they will actually have mastered the material.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
You think people can perfectly recreate all 90 questions?

This doesn’t seem that hard to me. Just create thousands of test questions that are randomly picked for each exam. By the time people memorized enough answers to pass the exam they will actually have mastered the material.
They don’t need to perfectly recreate questions, they only need to remember enough so that someone else can answer the actual question correctly. For example, “remember the brand name of ______” or “know the IV compatability of _____.” People can easily memorize 1000-2000 of these “nuggets” for purposes of taking an exam.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
How expensive it is to write questions? How much is the board charging each student to take the exam? I don’t care if they need to write 5000 or 10,000 questions. Get it done.

I noticed there is a lot of cheating in pharmacy school. I know people who don’t need to attend lectures and they would get the mean on the exam because they already have the exam. It is so widespread that people don’t even consider it cheating anymore. But, it is the professors fault for using the same damn question over and over again. I can’t believe people are paying 50 k/year in tuition and their school is too lazy to write new exam questions...not even change the wording.
I agree that it SHOULD’NT be hard to write questions but I have no idea how questions are written. Does the BOP write the questions themselves? Do faculty/practicing pharmacists write questions and submit them to the board to review and choose from? Or maybe neither since it seems like they have been recycling old questions for years now? Depending on what that answer is, it may require an entire overhaul of the BoP’s PMP to recreate 5000 new questions each year.
 
I agree that it SHOULD’NT be hard to write questions but I have no idea how questions are written. Does the BOP write the questions themselves? Do faculty/practicing pharmacists write questions and submit them to the board to review and choose from? Or maybe neither since it seems like they have been recycling old questions for years now? Depending on what that answer is, it may require an entire overhaul of the BoP’s PMP to recreate 5000 new questions each year.

This is not rocket science. How do other professional boards do it?

Medical students need to take the same standardized exam during medical school. Be lazy and cheat all you want...you are going to end up failing one of these exams.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
They don’t need to perfectly recreate questions, they only need to remember enough so that someone else can answer the actual question correctly. For example, “remember the brand name of ______” or “know the IV compatability of _____.” People can easily memorize 1000-2000 of these “nuggets” for purposes of taking an exam.
lmao, thats a big stretch. The only questions I ever remember on my exams are the ones that I couldn't answer with full confidence. Other than that, I can tell people to focus on a certain chapter or concept to do well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
lmao, thats a big stretch. The only questions I ever remember on my exams are the ones that I couldn't answer with full confidence. Other than that, I can tell people to focus on a certain chapter or concept to do well.
Tell that to the Loma Linda kid who finished with a 100% on the exam in 10 minutes. I’m sure he did “targeted studying” a few times and went off partying the rest of the month.
 
Not too surprising this eventually got found out. Apparently it was common practice for the CJPE to have a friend take the exam and then share the questions with their friends who scheduled to take the exam the following day or day after. They change the questions of the CJPE every week or something.
 
How can people expect them to release scores when all the answers to the exam is floating around on a Google doc. How could they realistically find out who looked at answers and cheated.
 
How can people expect them to release scores when all the answers to the exam is floating around on a Google doc. How could they realistically find out who looked at answers and cheated.

Realistically what are they going to do to prevent it in the future though? Creat a unique test for each candidate?
 
Those who are retaking it in nov………how are you planning to study? Any study guide on drugs that were released within the last year?

I read on Reddit that a few people are using the pharmacy charts as a fast review. Do you want to get the updated edition with me so we can get the group rate?
 
Pharmacy Times summarizing the news, says they are looking into possible December test dates:

 
Pharmacy Times summarizing the news, says they are looking into possible December test dates:


"Leak of more than 100 CPJE questions prior to the test being administered"
How does this even happen?
 
How expensive it is to write questions? How much is the board charging each student to take the exam? I don’t care if they need to write 5000 or 10,000 questions. Get it done.

I noticed there is a lot of cheating in pharmacy school. I know people who don’t need to attend lectures and they would get the mean on the exam because they already have the exam. It is so widespread that people don’t even consider it cheating anymore. But, it is the professors fault for using the same damn question over and over again. I can’t believe people are paying 50 k/year in tuition and their school is too lazy to write new exam questions...not even change the wording.

It depends. The federal portion has not changed much in at least 20 years in terms of certain questions. The feeling is that if you memorize the answers to those questions (e.g. most anabolic steroids are in which schedule and why (and the Schedule I exceptions), what are the rules for Schedule I (One) use in non-clinical settings, etc.), that fits the purpose of the exam. But the psychometrics of writing good questions is not easy, and it's always done by committee for test-retest validity. Most Board questions on law are such that even if compromised, it would not necessarily be changed all that much as the questions are direct anyway.

The problem with CA has been the incessant tendency to put trivia questions on their Boards because of a couple of egomaniacs/sadists on the exam committee. I've seen the bank a couple of times and have heavily criticized it on the basis of practicality ("who cares about this side effect of this particular beta lactam as it is extremely rare for it to happen clinically"), the basis of reading ("this question could be read from multiple perspectives, and the answer is not practical" and the example that is like this is to solve this math question: 6/2(1+2) = ?, which is 9 but it's intrinsically unfair due to the artificiality of the statement), and the basis of "when/why would you actually need to know this" (a question on amphoterin B between formulations that was nitpicky and has no clinical or storage implication), I actually feel that CA can learn much from how the Canadians set their PEBC in what questions stay, which questions rotate, and what new concepts show up every year in the approval pool. It's not just pharmacy. The Bar in CA is also notorious for nonstandard questions and other games. But what I dislike is CA's tendency to accept volunteers with agendas rather than recruit actual faculty or members of the public who know how to properly write and test questions out.

But to answer your broader question in a practical way, it's really not a question writing as much as exam integrity. CA Board of Pharmacy blew that up hard, there are clear exam security ways to do the psychometrics to suss out cheaters and the like. They ought to hire a PhD psychometrician to supervise the next round of writing questions for face and crossover validty, but also, they need to sit down and think about what it takes to run an exam. If it means that they can only offer it twice annual due to the preparations, so be it, but this is going to happen again at this rate if their own behavior does not change. Cheaters always exist, but you can respond better than just panic. All the good questions in the world are not going to survive if integrity checks are not built in.

Again, I'm long licensed so the situation does not affect me directly, but I can easily put myself as well as the rest of you in their shoes about being angry with someone screwing with my livelihood. Yeah, I do agree that there is some joint culpability on the parts of the candidates where you were told explicitly that you needed to license in more than just one state especially if CA was the primary. That said, I'm underwhelmed at the examples in the news reports. I did not realize that literacy was at such a low standard in our soon-to-be colleagues. But that is immaterial for the argument that they deserve a fair chance, and it should be argued that the cheater(s) and the Board took that away from them in a timely manner.

In the end, I want the entirety of the exam administration and accountability overhauled. Either CA drops their unique MPJE requirement, or they resource it properly to supervise it. I wish that NABP would force CA to conform with the other 49 states in making the MPJE strictly a practice law exam, because the clinical exam masquerading as the law has not been shown to have different care outcomes in CA than in other states. In the era we practice in right now, I am very much for forced integration of CA into the rest of the country.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Well I hope this has at least reaffirmed where the power is in changing pharmacy. Is not all the lofty academic groups but the state. If you want to have your voice heard then start cutting checks to individual lawmakers. The BoP invalidated 1400 people with the stroke of a pen. The Governor sits above them so when you want to fight for something in pharmacy then you know where to start.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
It depends. The federal portion has not changed much in at least 20 years in terms of certain questions. The feeling is that if you memorize the answers to those questions (e.g. most anabolic steroids are in which schedule and why (and the Schedule I exceptions), what are the rules for Schedule I (One) use in non-clinical settings, etc.), that fits the purpose of the exam. But the psychometrics of writing good questions is not easy, and it's always done by committee for test-retest validity. Most Board questions on law are such that even if compromised, it would not necessarily be changed all that much as the questions are direct anyway.

The problem with CA has been the incessant tendency to put trivia questions on their Boards because of a couple of egomaniacs/sadists on the exam committee. I've seen the bank a couple of times and have heavily criticized it on the basis of practicality ("who cares about this side effect of this particular beta lactam as it is extremely rare for it to happen clinically"), the basis of reading ("this question could be read from multiple perspectives, and the answer is not practical" and the example that is like this is to solve this math question: 6/2(1+2) = ?, which is 9 but it's intrinsically unfair due to the artificiality of the statement), and the basis of "when/why would you actually need to know this" (a question on amphoterin B between formulations that was nitpicky and has no clinical or storage implication), I actually feel that CA can learn much from how the Canadians set their PEBC in what questions stay, which questions rotate, and what new concepts show up every year in the approval pool. It's not just pharmacy. The Bar in CA is also notorious for nonstandard questions and other games. But what I dislike is CA's tendency to accept volunteers with agendas rather than recruit actual faculty or members of the public who know how to properly write and test questions out.

But to answer your broader question in a practical way, it's really not a question writing as much as exam integrity. CA Board of Pharmacy blew that up hard, there are clear exam security ways to do the psychometrics to suss out cheaters and the like. They ought to hire a PhD psychometrician to supervise the next round of writing questions for face and crossover validty, but also, they need to sit down and think about what it takes to run an exam. If it means that they can only offer it twice annual due to the preparations, so be it, but this is going to happen again at this rate if their own behavior does not change. Cheaters always exist, but you can respond better than just panic. All the good questions in the world are not going to survive if integrity checks are not built in.

Again, I'm long licensed so the situation does not affect me directly, but I can easily put myself as well as the rest of you in their shoes about being angry with someone screwing with my livelihood. Yeah, I do agree that there is some joint culpability on the parts of the candidates where you were told explicitly that you needed to license in more than just one state especially if CA was the primary. That said, I'm underwhelmed at the examples in the news reports. I did not realize that literacy was at such a low standard in our soon-to-be colleagues. But that is immaterial for the argument that they deserve a fair chance, and it should be argued that the cheater(s) and the Board took that away from them in a timely manner.

In the end, I want the entirety of the exam administration and accountability overhauled. Either CA drops their unique MPJE requirement, or they resource it properly to supervise it. I wish that NABP would force CA to conform with the other 49 states in making the MPJE strictly a practice law exam, because the clinical exam masquerading as the law has not been shown to have different care outcomes in CA than in other states. In the era we practice in right now, I am very much for forced integration of CA into the rest of the country.
Your right. NAPB really needs to come out and admonish this decision if to nothing else get all the states on the same page. How many more people will be affected before they say enough.
 
1. Pharmacy Technician in CA assumes identity of an RPh and fills 10,000s of RX at Walgreens.
2. CPJE exams are invalidated.

what's new for the "Golden State"?
 
Specialist positions for me are: crit care, EM, onc, peds (PICU/NICU), etc...

But even the generalist positions (inpt staffing with Kaiser, for example) is in close parity with the above positions. Mostly because at many hospitals, clin specs can and do float to other positions so it’s usually easier to just have the same pay scale.

No idea what so cal retail pays these days, but I remember it starting at ~$55/hr in 2008 w/ CVS


Sent from my iPad using SDN

Heard RPh distinguish themselves are "clinical pharmacist" or even "clinical pharmacy specialist", however never "specialist". I guess you can call yourself whatever you want.
 
1. Pharmacy Technician in CA assumes identity of an RPh and fills 10,000s of RX at Walgreens.
2. CPJE exams are invalidated.

what's new for the "Golden State"?
3. Still more pharmacy schools are opening up. As if 15 wasn’t enough already.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
Heard RPh distinguish themselves are "clinical pharmacist" or even "clinical pharmacy specialist", however never "specialist". I guess you can call yourself whatever you want.

I’m on my phone, trying to write less. Would have written spec was I not worried about an unfortunate inadvertent misspelling that is a racial epithet.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Heard RPh distinguish themselves are "clinical pharmacist" or even "clinical pharmacy specialist", however never "specialist". I guess you can call yourself whatever you want.
People who emphasize “clinical” need to be asked the meaning when used in the term: clinical trial.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
More coverage in the news. People unironically wear bowties?


There are other states, too. You can study for any MPJE in 1-2 days. Sheesh
Some people can’t because it has passed 90 days so they can’t transfer their Naplex scores. They would have to retake the Naplex and take the MPJE.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Time = money especially in this precarious job market for new grads (it'll probably get worse when the global economy crashes and burns in the next year). It sucks having to deal with the vagaries of the ****ty CA BOP but that's the risk people take putting all their eggs into one basket. Even forecasting 5-10 years out, that's why you have pharmacists talking about planning or cushioning their exit from pharmacy in another thread.
 
I’m so sorry I didn’t spell out Clinical Pharmacy Specialist - Emergency Medicine

I’ll make sure to be more accurate in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I’m so sorry I didn’t spell out Clinical Pharmacy Specialist - Emergency Medicine

I’ll make sure to be more accurate in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Lol remember these are the same people that will actually call a doctor about diff doxycycline salts hahahah


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Top